HC Deb 01 May 1906 vol 156 cc476-88

Considered in Committee.

[Mr. EMMOTT (Oldham) in the Chair.]

(In the Committee.)

Clause 2:—; In page 1, line 7, to leave out the words 'if otherwise qualified.'"—;(Mr. William Rutherford.)

Question again proposed, "That the words' if otherwise qualified' stand part of the clause."


said that the reason why this Amendment was pressed when the Bill was last before the Committee was that there could be only two kinds of qualification for a Justice of the Peace—;the possession of estate and residence. The Committee, by adopting Clause 1, had abolished the qualification by estate; and inasmuch as the wording of Clause 2 dealt with the question of residence it was obvious that there could not be any kind of qualification to which the words "if otherwise qualified" could be said to refer. To leave these words in the clause would only lead to confusion; and ill the interests of perspicacity he thought the Amendment should be accepted.


said that Clause 1 abrogated the qualification by estate, and Clause 2 stated that a man might be qualified by residence in the county or within seven miles of the county. The words "if otherwise qualified" were necessary.


said he desired, after that explanation, to withdraw his Amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

* MR. CAVE (Surrey, Kingston)

said that in the Municipal Corporations Act there were enabling words which qualified a man as Justice of the Peace for a borough who occupied a house or property in the borough. Why should not these words be applied to a county? As they were enlarging the field of choice of Justices in counties by allowing them to reside seven miles out of the county, he thought it desirable that they should be put on the same footing in this respect also as in the boroughs. He moved to insert at end of Clause 2, line 10, the words—; Or occupy a house or other property in the county.

Amendment proposed—; In page 1, line 10, after the word 'thereof,' to add the words 'or occupies a house or other property in the county."'—;(Mr. Cave.)

Question proposed, "That those words be there added."


said he did not think the Amendment was of much importance one way or the other; but it was undesirable to enlarge the scope of the clause as suggested. If a gentleman occupied a residence he should be qualified, but he was of opinion that it was not desirable to introduce a temporary residence as a qualification.


said that he had taken a great interest in this Bill, and he believed that it would be improved if the Solicitor-General accepted the Amendment.

MR. THEODORE TAYLOR (Lancashire, Radcliffe)

said that the Amendment would raise another property qualification, and he hoped the Solicitor-General would not accept it.

Question put.

The Committee divided:—;Ayes, 44; Noes, 305. (Division List No. 56.)

Acland-Hood, RtHn.Sir Alex.F Faber, Capt. W. V. (Hants, W.) Ropner, Colonel Sir Robert
Balcarres, Lord Finch, Rt. Hon. George H. Rutherford, John (Lancashire)
Balfour,Rt,Hn.A.J.(City Lond. Forster, Henry William Rutherford, W. W. (Liverpool)
Beach,Hn.Michael Hugh Hicks Gardner, Ernest (Berks, East) Salter, Arthur Clavell
Bridgeman, W. Clive Helmsley, Viscount Sandys, Lieut.-Col. Thos.Myles
Bull, Sir William James Hervey,F.W.F.(Bury S.Edm's Sassoon, Sir Edward Albert
Castlereagh, Viscount Houston, Robert Paterson Smith,Abel H. (Hertford,East)
Cecil, Lord John P. Joicey- Hunt, Rowland Smith, F.E. (Liverpool, Walton)
Cecil, Lord R. (Maylebone, E.) Kenyon-Slaney, Rt. Hn. Col.W. Stone, Sir Benjamin
Coates, E. Feetham (Lewisham Lane-Fox, G. R. Thomson, W. Mitchell- (Lanark)
Cochrane, Hon. Thos. H. A. E. Legge, Col. Hon. Heneage Valentia, Viscount
Courthope, G. Loyd Liddell, Henry Younger, George
Craig, Captain James(Down, E.) Nield, Herbert
Craik, Sir Henry O'Neill, Hon. Robert Torrens TELLERS FOR THE AYES—;Sir Henry Aubrey-Fletcher and Mr. Cave.
Duncan, Robert (Lana'k, Govan Percy, Earl
Faber, George Denison (York) Rasch, Sir Frederic Carne
Abraham, William (Cork, N.E.) Balfour, Robert (Lanark) Barnes, G. N.
Abraham, William (Rhondda) Baring, Godfrey (Isle of Wight) Barran, Rowland Hirst
Agar-Robartes, Hon. T. C. Barker, John Beale, W. P.
Astbury, John Meir Barlow, Percy (Bedford) Beauchamp, E.
Baker, Sir John (Portsmouth) Barnard, E. B. Beaumont, W. C. B. (Hexham)
Beck, A. Cecil Essex, R. W. Macdonald, J. R. (Leicester)
Bellairs, Carlyon Evans, Samuel T. Macdonald,J.M. (Falkirk B'ghs
Benn,John Williams(Devonp't Eve, Harry Trelawney Mackarness, Frederic C.
Benn,W.(T'w'r Hamlets,S.Geo. Everett, R. Lacey Macnamara, Dr. Thomas J.
Bennett, E. N. Fenwick, Charles Macpherson, J. T.
Bertram, Julius Findlay, Alexander MacVeagh, Jeremiah(Down, S.
Bethell, J. H. (Essex, Romford Fuller, John Michael F. M'Crae, George
Bethell, T. R. (Essex, Maldon) Fullerton, Hugh M'Kean, John
Billson, Alfred Gibb, James (Harrow) M'Kenna, Reginald
Birrell, Rt. Hon. Augustine Gill, A. H. M'Killop, W.
Black,Arthur W. (Bedfordshire Ginnell, L. Manfield, Harry (Northants)
Boland, John Gladstone, Rt.Hn. Herbert John Mansfield, H. Rendall(Lincoln)
Bolton, T. D. (Derbyshire,N.E. Gooch, George Peabody Markham, Arthur Basil
Bottomley, Horatio Grant, Corrie Marks,G. Croydon (Launceston)
Boulton, A. C. F. (Ramsay) Greenwood, G. (Peterborough) Massie, J.
Brace, William Grey, Rt. Hon. Sir Edward Meagher, Michael
Branch, James Griffith, Ellis, J. Meehan, Patrick A.
Brigg, John Gulland, John W. Menzies, Walter
Bright, J. A. Gurdon, Sir W. Rrampton Micklem, Nathaniel
Brodie, H. C. Haldane, Rt. Hon. Richard B. Molteno, Percy Alfred
Brooke, Stopford Hall, Frederick Mond, A.
Brunner,J. F. L.(Lancs.,Leigh) Halpin, J. Money, L. G. Chiozza
Bryce,Rt.Hn.James (Aberdeen Harcourt, Rt. Hon. Lewis Montagu, E.S.
Bryce,J.A.(Inverness Burghs) Hardy, George A. (Suffolk) Mooney, J. J.
Buchanan, Thomas Ryburn Harmsworth, Cecil B. (Worc'r) Morgan, G. Hay (Cornwall)
Buckmaster, Stanley O. Harvey, A. G. C. (Rochdale) Morgan, J. Lloyd (Carmarthen)
Burke, E. Haviland- Haslam, James (Derbyshire) Morse, L. L.
Burns, Rt. Hon. John Haslam, Lewis (Monmouth) Morton, Alpheus Cleophas
Burnyeat, J. D. W. Haworth, Arthur A. Murphy, John
Burt, Rt. Hon. Thomas Hazel, Dr. A. E. Myer, Horatio
Buxton,Rt.Hn.Sydney Charles Hazleton, Richard Nannetti, Joseph P.
Byles, William Pollard Hedges, A. Paget Napier, T. B.
Cairns, Thomas Helme, Norval Watson Newnes, F. (Notts, Bassetlaw)
Carr-Gomm, H. W. Henderson, Arthur (Durham) Nicholls, George
Causton,Rt.HnRichard Knight Herbert, Colonel Ivor (Mon., S.) Nicholson, Charles N. (Doncas'r
Channing, Francis Allston Higham, John Sharp Nolan, Joseph
Cheetham, John Frederick Hobart, Sir Robert Norton, Capt. Cecil William
Cherry, Rt. Hon. R. R. Hodge, John Nuttall, Harry
Churchill, Winston Spencer Holden, E. Hopkinson O'Brien,Kendal (Tipperary Mid
Clarke, C. Goddard (Peckham) Holland, Sir William Henry O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny)
Cleland, J. W. Hooper, A. G. O'Brien, William (Cork)
Clough, W. Hope,John Deans (Fife, West) O'Connor, James(Wicklow, W.)
Clynes, J. R. Hope, W.Bateman (Somerset,N O'Connor, John (Kildare, N.)
Cobbold, Felix Thornley Horniman, Emslie John O'Grady, J.
Cogan, Denis J. Horridge, Thomas Gardner O'Kelly,James (Roscommon, N
Collins, Stephen (Lambeth) Howard, Hon. Geoffrey O'Malley, William
Collins,Sir Wm.J.(S.Pancras,W Hudson, Walter O'Shee, James John
Corbett,C.H.(Sussex,E. Grins'd Hyde, Clarendon Parker, James (Halifax)
Cornwall, Sir Edwin A. Illingworth, Percy H. Pearce, Robert (Staffs. Leek)
Cory, Clifford John Jackson, R. S. Pearce, William (Limehouse)
Cotton, Sir H. J. S. Jenkins, J. Perks, Robert William
Cowan, W. H. Johnson, John (Gateshead) Philipps, Owen C. Pembroke)
Cremer, William Randal Johnson, W. (Nuneaton) Pickersgill, Edward Hare
Crombie, John William Jones, William (Carnarvonsh.) Power, Patrick Joseph
Crooks, William Jowett, F. W. Price, C. E. (Edinb'gh, Central)
Dalziel, James Henry Joyce, Michael Priestley, W.E.B.(Bradford, E.)
Davies, David(Montgomery Co. Kearley, Hudson E. Radford, G. H.
Davies, Timothy (Fulham) Kekewich, Sir George Rainy, A. Rolland
Davies, W. Howell (Bristol, S.) Kennedy, Vincent Paul Raphael, Herbert H.
Delany, William Kincaid-Smith, Captain Rea, Russell (Gloucester)
Devlin, CharlesRamsay(Galway King, Alfred John (Knutsford) Rea, Walter Russell (Scarboro'
Dickinson, W.H.(St.Pancras, N Laidlaw, Robert Redmond, John E. (Waterford)
Dickson-Poynder, Sir John P. Lambert, George Redmond, William (Clare)
Dillon, John Lament, Norman Rees, J. D.
Dolan, Charles Joseph Law, Hugh Alexander Richards, T.F. (Wolverh'mpt'n
Donelan, Captain A. Lawson, Sir Wilfrid Richardson, A.
Duckworth, James Lehmann, R. C. Rickett, J. Compton
Duncan, C. (Barrow-in-Furness Lever, A. Levy (Essex, Harwich Ridsdale, E. A.
Dunn, A. Edward (Camborne) Levy, Maurice Roberts, Charles H. (Lincoln)
Edwards, Clement (Denbigh) Lough, Thomas Roberts, G. H. (Norwich)
Edwards, Enoch (Hanley) Lundon, W. Roberts, John H. (Denbighs.)
Ellis, Rt. Hon. John Edward Lupton, Arnold Robertson, Rt. Hn. E. (Dundee
Erskine, David C. Lynch, H. B. Robertson, Sir G.Scott(Bradf'd
Robinson, S. Stanley, Hn. A.Lyulph (Chesh. Waterlow, D. S.
Robson, Sir William Snowdon Steadman, W. C. Wedgwood, Josiah C.
Roche, Augustine (Cork) Stewart, Halley (Greenock) Weir, James Galloway
Roe, Sir Thomas Strachey, Sir Edward White, George (Norfolk)
Rogers, F. E. Newman Straus, B. S. (Mile End) White, J. D. (Dumbartonshire)
Rose, Charles Day Strauss, E. A. (Abingdon) White, Luke (York, E. R.)
Rowlands, J. Sullivan, Donal White, Patrick (Meath, North)
Rutherford, V. H. (Brentford) Summerbell, T. Whitehead, Rowland
Samuel,Herbert L. (Cleveland) Sutherland, J. E. Whitley, J. H. (Halifax)
Schwann, C. Duncan (Hyde) Taylor, John W. (Durham) Whittaker, Thomas Palmer
Schwann, Chas. E.(Manchester Taylor, Theodore C. (Radcliffe) Wiles, Thomas
Scott,A.H.(Ashton under Lyne Thomas, Abel (Carmarthen, E. Williams, J. (Glamorgan)
Sears, J. E. Thomas, David Alfred(Merthyr Williams, W. L. (Carmarthen)
Seddon, J. Thomasson, Franklin Wilson, J. H. (Middlesbrough)
Seely, Major J. B. Torrance, A. M. Wilson, P. W. (St. Pancras, S.)
Shackleton, David James Toulmin, George Wilson, W. T. (Westhoughton)
Shaw, Rt. Hon. T. (Hawick B.) Trevelyan, Charles Philips Winfrey, R.
Sheehan, Daniel Daniel Ure, Alexander Wodehouse,Lord(Norfolk, Mid)
Shipman, Dr. John G. Verney, F. W. Wood, T. M'Kinnon
Simon, John Allsebrook Walker, H. De R. (Leicester) Young, Samuel
Smeaton, Donald Mackenzie Wallace, Robert Yoxall, James Henry
Snowden, P. Walsh, Stephen
Soares, Ernest J. Ward, W. Dudley(Southamptn TELLERS FOR THE NOES—;Mr.Whiteley and Mr. Herbert Lewis.
Spicer, Albert Wardle, George J.
Stanger, H. Y. Wason,John Cathcart(Orkney)

Motion made, and Question proposed, "That the Clause stand part of the Bill."

SIR A. ACLAND-HOOD (Somersetshire, Wellington)

objected to the general application of the system under which gentlemen residing seven miles from the county might be appointed. He knew that there were many cases in which it was necessary to take that step to secure a quorum, but he thought the general application of the principle was a mistake. He thought the Court of Quarter Sessions would rather have justice administered by gentlemen who resided in the county and knew the needs of the neighbourhood than by people who resided in another county and were brought from seven miles off. Why should the peaceful folk of Somersetshire have men brought in who were ignorant of their customs and, in many cases, of their language? A man who resided in Rutland, who was appointed a magistrate, would be qualified to serve in the four neighbouring counties. That gentleman might have strong views on the game laws either in favour of or against the poacher; he might have strong views on the licensing question either in favour of or against the licensed houses. It seemed to him against the principle of any Radical Government to put all these discretionary powers in the hands of one man. It also seemed rather curious that on the eve of the day upon which the Plural Voting Bill, which included, he apprehended, the principle of one man one vote, was to be introduced they should be discussing the principle of a man who could only vote in one county in an election being able to exercise his magisterial functions not in one but in four counties. It was on these grounds that he opposed the clause.


said the right hon. Gentleman was apparently oblivious of the fact that the vote just given would enable a gentleman to be a magistrate in any county. The reason for this seven mile-limit was a very practical and proper one. It was this: there were many districts, especially industrial districts, where persons qualified to act as magistrates had large interests in a particular district but had their residences outside that district, and it was thought that the same rule should apply to them as that which already applied in the case of boroughs.


said he joined his right hon. friend in his opposition to this clause. The Committee had already heard what the effect of it would be in a small county. The effect was to give a special qualification to a man to be appointed a magistrate who resided, not in the county in which his magisterial duties were exercised, but seven miles outside the borders of that county. In a large county the effect would be that any man who resided on the strip of land seven miles wide adjoining another county would be eligible for election to the magistracy of that other county. One curious result of the clause would be that whereas if a man resided eight miles from the border he would be eligible to serve as a magistrate in only one county, if he resided on that strip of land fourteen miles wide, seven miles each side of the border, he would have a double qualification. He thought there should only be one qualification. They should either abolish the qualification and put everyone on an equality, or,

if that could not be done, and there must be a residential qualification, they should take care that no one had more than one residential qualification. It was quite clear that this clause was a mistake. It established privileges and gave rights to individuals who lived in an arbitrarily selected territory and was for that reason highly objectionable. Therefore he hoped the Government would see their way to omit it from the Bill.

Question put.

The Committee divided:—;Ayes, 289; Noes, 35. (Division List No. 57.)

Abraham, William (Cork, N.E.) Causton, Rt.Hn.Richard Knight Gill, A. H.
Abraham, William (Rhondda) Cave, George Ginnell, L.
Astbury, John Meir Channing, Francis Allston Gladstone,Rt.Hn.Herbert John
Baker, Sir John (Portsmouth) Cheetham, John Frederick Glover, Thomas
Baring, Godfrey (Isle of Wight) Cherry, Rt. Hon. R. R. Grant, Corrie
Barker, John Churchill, Winston Spencer Greenwood, G. (Peterborough)
Barlow, Percy (Bedford) Clarke, C. Goddard (Peckham) Grey Rt. Hon. Sir Edward
Barnard, E. B. Cleland, J. W. Griffith, Ellis J.
Barnes, G. N. Clough, W. Gulland, John W.
Barran, Rowland Hirst Clynes, J. R. Gurdon, Sir W. Brampton
Beale, W. P. Cobbold, Felix Thornley Haldane, Rt. Hon. Richard B.
Beauchamp, E. Cogan, Denis J. Hall, Frederick
Beaumont, W. C. B. (Hexham) Collins, Stephen (Lambeth) Halpin, J.
Beck, A. Cecil Collins,Sir Wm. J.(S.Pancras,W Harcourt, Rt. Hon. Lewis
Bellairs, Carlyon Corbett,C.H.(Sussex, E.Grins'd Hardy, George A. (Suffolk)
Benn, John Williams(Devonp't Cornwall, Sir Edwin A. Harmsworth, Cecil B. (Worc'r)
Benn, W.(T'w'r Hamlets,S.Geo. Cory, Clifford John Harvey, A. G. C. (Rochdale)
Bennett, E. N. Cotton, Sir H. J. S. Haslam, James (Derbyshire)
Bertram, Julius Cowan, W. H. Haslam, Lewis (Monmouth)
Bethell, J. H.(Essex, Romford) Cremer, William Randal Haworth, Arthur A.
Bethell, T. R. (Essex, Maldon) Crooks, William Hayden, John Patrick
Billson, Alfred Dalziel, James Henry Hazel, Dr. A. E.
Birrell, Rt. Hon. Augustine Davies,David(Montgomery Co. Hazleton, Richard
Black, Arthur W.(Bedfordshire Davies, Timothy (Fulham) Helme, Norval Watson
Boland, John Davies, W. Howell (Bristol, S.) Henderson, Arthur (Durham)
Bolton, T. D. (Derbyshire, N. E.) Delany, William Higham, John Sharp
Bottomley, Horatio Devlin,CharlesRamsay(Galway Hobart, Sir Robert
Boulton, A. C. F. (Ramsey) Dickinson,W.H.(St.Pancras, N Hodge, John
Bowerman, C. W. Dickson-Poynder, Sir John P. Holden, E. Hopkinson
Brace, William Dillon, John Hooper, A. G.
Branch, James Dolan, Charles Joseph Hope,W.Bateman(Somerset, N
Brigg, John Donelan, Captain A. Horniman, Emslie John
Bright, J. A. Duckworth, James Howard, Hon. Geoffrey
Brodie, H. C. Duncan, C.(Barrow-in-Furness Hudson, Walter
Brooke, Stanford Dunn, A. Edward (Camborne) Hyde, Clarendon
Brunner,J. F. L. (Lancs.,Leigh) Edwards, Clement (Denbigh) Illingworth, Percy H.
Bryce,Rt.Hn.James (Aberdeen Edwards, Enoch (Hanley) Jackson, R. S.
Bryce,J..A. (Inverness Burghs) Edwards, Frank (Radnor) Jenkins, J.
Buchanan, Thomas Ryburn Erskine, David C. Johnson, John (Gateshead)
Buckmaster, Stanley O. Essex, R. W. Johnson, W. (Nuneaton)
Burke, E. Haviland- Evans, Samuel T. Jones, William (Carnarvonshire
Burns, Rt. Hon. John Eve, Harry Trelawney Jowett, F. W.
Burnyeat, J. D. W. Everett, R. Lacey Joyce, Michael
Burt, Rt. Hon. Thomas Fenwick, Charles Kearley, Hudson E.
Buxton,Rt.Hn.Sydney Charles Findlay, Alexander Kekewich, Sir George
Byles, William Pollard Fuller, John Michael F. Kennedy, Vincent Paul
Cairns, Thomas Fullerton, Hugh Kincaid-Smith, Captain
Carr-Gomm, H. W. Gibb, James (Harrow) King, Alfred John (Knutsford)
Laidlaw, Robert O'Brien, Kendal(Tipperary Mid Soares, Ernest J.
Lambert, George O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny) Spicer, Albert
Lamont, Norman O'Brien, William (Cork) Stanger, H. Y.
Law, Hugh Alexander O'Connor,James (Wicklow,W.) Stanley,Hn.A.Lyulph (Chesh.)
Lawson, Sir Wilfrid O'Connor, John (Kildare, N.) Steadman, W. C.
Lehmann, R. C. O'Grady, J. Stewart, Halley (Greenock)
Lever, A. Levy (Essex, Harwich O'Kelly,James (Roscommon,N Strachey, Sir Edward
Levy, Maurice O'Malley, William Straus, B. S. (Mile End)
Lough, Thomas O'Mara, James Strauss, E. A. (Abingdon)
Lundon, W. Parker, James (Halifax) Sullivan, Donal
Lupton, Arnold Pearce, Robert (Staffs. Leek) Summerbell, T.
Lynch, H. B. Pearce, William (Limehouse) Sutherland, J. E.
Macdonald, J. R. (Leicester) Philipps, Owen C. (Pembroke) Taylor, John W. (Durham)
Macdonald, J. M. Falkirk B'ghs Pickersgill, Edward Hare Taylor, Theodore C. (Radcliffe)
Mackarness, Frederic C. Power, Patrick Joseph Thomas, Abel (Carmarthen, E.)
Macnamara, Dr. Thomas J. Price, C. E. (Edinb'gh, Central) Thomas, David Alfred (Merthyr
Macpherson, J. T. Radford, G. H. Thomasson, Franklin
MacVeagh, Jeremiah (Down, S. Rainy, A. Rolland Torrance, A. M.
MacVeigh,Charles(Donegal, E.) Raphael, Herbert H. Toulmin, George
M'Crae, George Rea, Russell (Gloucester) Ure, Alexander
M'Kenna, Reginald Rea, Walter Russell (Scarboro' Verney, F. W.
M'Killop, W. Redmond, John E. (Waterford) Walker, H. De R. (Leicester)
Manfield, Harry (Northants) Redmond, William (Clare) Wallace, Robert
Mansfield, H. Rendall (Lincoln) Rees, J. D. Walsh, Stephen
Markham, Arthur Basil Richards, T. F.(Wolverh'mpt'n Ward, W.Dudley (Southampt'n
Marks, G.Croydon (Launceston) Richardson, A. Wason,John Cathcart (Orkney
Massie, J. Rickett, J. Compton Waterlow, D. S.
Meagher, Michael Ridsdale, E. A. Wedgwood, Josiah C.
Meehan, Patrick A. Roberts, Charles H. (Lincoln) Weir, James Galloway
Menzies, Walter Roberts, G. H. (Norwich) White, George (Norfolk)
Micklem, Nathaniel Roberts, John H. (Denbighs.) White, J. D. (Dumbartonshire)
Molteno, Percy Alfred Robertson,Sir G. Scott(Bradf'd White, Luke (York, E. R.)
Mond, A. Robinson, S. White, Patrick (Meath, North)
Money, L. G. Chiozza Robson, Sir William Snowdon Whitehead, Rowland
Montagu, E. S. Roe, Sir Thomson Whitley, J. H. (Halifax)
Mooney, J. J. Rogers, F. E. Newman Whittaker, Thomas Palmer
Morgan, G. Hay (Cornwall) Rose, Charles Day Wiles, Thomas
Morgan, J. Lloyd (Carmarthen) Rowlands, J. Williams, J. (Glamorgan)
Morse, L. L. Samuel, Herbert L. (Cleveland) Williams, W. L. (Carmarthen)
Morton, Alpheus Cleophas Schwann, C. Duncan (Hyde) Wilson, P. W. (St. Pancras, S.)
Murphy, John Scott,A.H. (Ashton under Lyne Wilson, W. T. (Westhoughton)
Murray, James Sears, J. E. Winfrey, R.
Nannetti, Joseph P. Seddon, J. Wodehouse, Lord(Norfolk, Mid)
Napier, T. B. Seely, Major J. B. Wood, T. M'Kinnon
Newnes, F. (Notts, Bassetlaw) Stackleton, Davin James Young, Samuel
Nicholls, George Sheehan, Daniel Daniel
Nicholson, Charles N. (Donc'r) Shipman, Dr. John G. TELLERS FOR THE AYES—;Mr.Whiteley and Mr. Herbert Lewis.
Nolan, Joseph Simon, John Allsebrook
Norton, Capt. Cecil William Smeaton, Donald Macknezie
Nuttall, Harry Snowden, P.
Acland-Hood, Rt. Hn Sir Alex. F. Forster, Henry William Rasch, Sir Frederic Carne
Aubrey-Fletcher, Rt.Hn. Sir H. Gardner, Ernest (Berks, East) Ropner, Colonel Sir Robert
Balcarres, Lord Helmsley, Viscount Rutherford, John (Lancashire)
Beach,Hn.Michael Hugh Hicks Hill, Sir Clement (Shrewsbury) Salter, Arthur Clavell
Bridgeman, W. Clive Houston, Robert Paterson Smith, Abel H. (Hertford, East
Castlereagh, Viscount Hunt, Rowland Smith,F.E. (Liverpool, Walton)
Cecil, Lord John P. Joicey- Kenyon-Slaney,Rt. Hon.Col.W Stone, Sir Benjamin
Cecil, Lord R. (Marylebone, E.) Lane-Fox, G. R. Thomson, W. Mitchell-(Lanark
Coates, E. Feetham (Lewisham Legge, Col. Hon. Heneage Younger, George
Courthope, G. Loyd Liddell, Henry
Craig, Captain James(Down, E. Nield, Herbert TELLERS FOR THE NOES—;Mr. Watson Rutherford and Sir William Bull.
Duncan, Robert(Lanark,Govan O'Neill, Hon. Robert Torrens
Finch, Rt. Hon. George H. Parkes, Ebenezer

Bill read a second time, and committed.

Clause 3:—;


thought they ought to have the words "if qualified" after the word "solicitor." The Solicitor-General was very careful indeed to have such words in Clause 2, but as Clause 3 read now a solicitor might be appointed although not qualified at all. He certainly thought they should be just as careful here as in the other case, and he therefore moved that the words "if qualified" be added after the word "solicitor."

Amendment proposed—; In page 1, line 11, after the word 'solicitor' to insert the words 'if qualified.'"—;[Mr. Cave.)

Question proposed, "That the words 'if qualified' be there inserted."


said the words were quite unnecessary as the solicitor must be qualified.

LORD R. CECIL (Marylebone, E.)

said he could not understand why, if the words were necessary in Clause 2, they were not necessary in Clause 3. After all a person was not substantially different from a solicitor, and if there was a danger in the one case of an alien being appointed, why not also in the case of a solicitor?

* COLONEL LEGGE (St. George's, Hanover Square)

said the Amendment would make the clause perfectly clear that a solicitor could not be appointed unless he were qualified.


said he could not support the Amendment. He was a solicitor himself, and he took it that if this clause became law he or any other solicitor might be appointed a justice of the peace for any county. The questions of qualification by estate or residence would not arise. It would be sufficient if he were a solicitor. The result of passing this clause in its present comprehensive form would be that any solicitor practising in London could be appointed a justice of the peace for Devonshire, or any other county. He did not know whether that was the intention of the Government, but on behalf of the profession to which he belonged he heartily welcomed this tardy measure of justice, and he recognised that it was an attempt on the part of the Government to make up for the injustice to which the profession had been subjected for so many years.

MR. MITCHELL-THOMSON (Lanarkshire, N. W.)

thought that the Amendment as it stood might give rise to some confusion. He would suggest that the words "if otherwise qualified" should be substituted. That would put the two clauses on all fours, and solicitors would not be placed on a completely different plane from all other members of the community.

MR. F. E. SMITH (Liverpool, Walton)

said it was perfectly clear that the words "otherwise qualified" in Clause 2 were put there only for the purpose of keeping alive certain existing disabilities.

And, it being a quarter-past Eight of the clock, and there being Private Business set down by direction of the Chairman of Ways and Means under Standing Order No. 8, further Proceeding was postponed without Question put.