§ As amended (by the Standing Committee), further considered.
§ SIR FREDERICK BANBURY (City of London)said that in his speech on the previous Friday he had pointed out that the principal defect of Sub-section 1 of Clause 1 was that it left out a line which appeared in a similar section of the Agricultural Holdings Act of 1900, which in his opinion constituted a safeguard, namely "of the inherent capabilities of the soil." He admitted on that occasion that there were many hon. Members on the Opposition side of the 1258 House who believed their object would be obtained by leaving out those words "the inherent capabilities of the soil." The reason they objected to the words being inserted was that should there be any dispute it would be very difficult to ascertain what improvements were due to the inherent capabilities of the soil, and what to some other reason. It was, he admitted, difficult to find out what had been produced by the inherent capabilities of the soil, and what had been produced by better work on the part of the farmer, and he agreed that nothing that could give facilities to the members of the legal profession for earning money should be put into an Act of Parliament. But the thing must tell the other way, and the effect of leaving these words out would be what very frequently happened now, namely, that a farmer would take a farm in first-class condition, hold it for three years, take all he could out of it and go away. In one particular case in which he was interested the man went bankrupt and they ascertained that he never had any capital, and he had been living in that way for the previous ten years. In regard to these words the landlords were willing to come to a compromise and not engage in litigation, because they knew it was difficult to say what was due to the inherent capabilities of the soil, and the same would apply to the farmer who must know perfectly well that though the improvements were the result of his work and not due to the inherent capabilities of the soil there would be difficulty in proving it, and there would be a risk of litigation. He proposed to add at the end of the sub-section words which would re-insert the words of the Act of 1900—the words "inherent capabilities of the soil." If this sub-section was retained that would insure the purpose he had in view, and he was quite content to achieve his object in that way. Meanwhile he moved the omission of the sub-section.
§ MR. GARDNER (Berkshire, Wokingham)expressed the opinion that this was a most unfair clause so far as the landlord was concerned. It was quite possible for a farmer who knew the land to estimate what the inherent capabilities of the soil were. It was not right that anyone should be allowed to claim a right to the inherent capabilities of the soil, and if they were to be transferred at all they 1259 should be transferred for the benefit of the general public. Supposing a farm was let to be cultivated in the manner in which it had been cultivated for generations. As time went on, the tenant might find that the land would be of greater value if cultivated in a different manner. In such a case surely a tenant ought to have the right to cultivate the land in the best way. He thought these words ought not to be left out, they were easily definable and easily adjusted between a man and his tenant.
§ Amendment proposed—
§ "In page 1, line 10, to leave out Subsection (1) of Clause 1."—(Sir Frederick Banbury.)
§ Question proposed, "That the words proposed to be left out, to the end of page 1, line 17, stand part of the Bill."
§ SIR EDWARD STRACHEY (Somersetshire, S.)said he could not quite understand why the hon. Baronet had moved to leave out this sub-section. With regard to the question of the inherent capabilities of the soil he thought the discussion now taking place was a belated one when they considered what took place during the passage of the Agricultural Holdings Act of 1900. Sir Charles Welby then moved an Amendment with a similar object, but the Government of the day, and the then President of the Board of Agriculture, the right hon. Member for South Dublin, absolutely refused to consider that injustice would be done to the landlord, or to accept the Amendment, and he retained the Bill in the shape it was introduced in the House of Commons. It was quite true that in another place these words were put in, but, in the opinion of the then Government, they were absolutely unnecessary and uncalled for. That was not only the opinion of the Government, but also of Captain Pretyman who farmed some thousands of acres himself, his view being that they would not affect compensation one way or the other, that the putting in of the words "the inherent capabilities of the soil" would only confuse the minds of the valuers, and that, speaking from a practical standpoint, the words should be omitted. Although not a great landlord like Captain Pretyman, he himself had had some practical 1260 experience in these matters, and he agreed with every word uttered by Captain Pretyman in 1900 on this question. Valuers held the same view, and the Central Chamber of Agriculture had emphatically declared against the words "inherent capabilities of the soil" being again introduced. He hoped the Amendment would not be pressed, because it was undesirable to re-argue a matter which had been definitely decided in 1900.
§ MR. COCHRANE (Ayrshire, N.)said it appeared to him that the hon. Baronet had found himself in a strange and difficult; position. He now urged that to insert these words would confuse the minds of the valuers, but the hon. Baronet was somewhat stultifying some previous Acts of his own, because he was one of the promoters of the Scottish Agricultural Holdings Bill which had the whole weight of the late Board of Agriculture behind it.
§ SIR EDWARD STRACHEYsaid that was purely a Consolidation Bill, not amending but simply codifying existing law.
§ MR. COCHRANEsaid that was an extraordinarily specious argument, but it would not do. The fact of the matter was the hon. Gentleman was in a difficulty. Another name on the back of the Scottish Agricultural Holdings Bill was that of the hon. and learned Attorney-General for Scotland, and if he had for a moment thought that these words bore the interpretation placed upon them by the hon. Gentleman who sat next him, he would not have permitted them to come into any Bill having his name on the back. The real fact was that the hon. Gentleman had been rushed by the private Members behind the Bill. Without consulting the Board of Agriculture they had introduced a hotch-potch Bill dealing with the Game and other laws affecting the agricultural interests, and upsetting the law which had existed for many years, without adequate consideration. The hon. Gentleman had either to bring his own knowledge to bear against that of the promoters of the Bill and to state what was his mind and what was that of the Department he represented, or he had to make some specious excuse in order to accept the point of view of the promoters. He thought his hon. friend, 1261 in moving the rejection of this sub-section was perfectly logical and in order. There were only two logical courses to take, either to leave out the whole of the subsection or so to amend it as to bear out the law which they intended to pass. He thought the best solution of the difficulty was to accept the suggestion of his hon. friend and to leave it out.
§ THE SOLICITOR-GENERAL FOR SCOTLAND (Mr. URE,) Linlithgowshiresaid he did not think that anyone in the House who had the slightest familiarity with the question of the rights of the tenants would support this Amendment. To Scotsmen, at all events, it was sufficient to say in the words of the most eminent authority that they had on this branch of the law—
No man can claim for an improvement effected by him what is due to the inherent capabilities of the soil, and in practice the Court has never been asked to deal with such a preposterous claim.Although that authority might not appeal with great force to English Members, he thought it would certainly carry some weight. He thought the Amendment would afford the landlord no protection whatever and might have the effect of creating some injustice.
§ SIR E. CARSON (Dublin University)said he rose not for the purpose of urging the acceptance of this Amendment, but merely for the purpose of calling attention to the drafting of the sub-section. He had had some experience of trying to make out the meaning of sub-sections of Acts of Parliament from time to time, and this was one of the most extraordinary he had ever read. It spoke of "the first schedule to this Act," but it appeared on examination that it did not mean this Act, but another Act, the Agricultural Holdings Act of 1883. Then, too, he found that the first section of the Act of 1883 was repealed by the first section of the Act of 1900, and now the first section of the Act of 1900 was being repealed by this Bill, and when the first section of the Act of 1900 which repealed the first section of the Act of 1883 was repealed by the first section of this Bill, then he wanted to know what became of the first section of the Act of 1883. He would put another conundrum. How were the improvements to be dealt with which 1262 were made before this Act, but not before the principal Act of 1883? They repealed this section, but at the same time said it was to be subject to the Agricultural Holdings Act of 1883 which was called the principal Act. He found in the Act of 1883 very elaborate provisions as to what was to be the commencement of the Act in relation to improvements of ten years before. Did the present Bill deal only with improvements made after it should come into operation or with improvements made before this Act and not before the Act of 1883. These questions did not go to the merit of the Bill but merely to its drafting. He hoped the Government would put their draftsman on the Bill for a few hours, so that the next time it came before the House of Commons it might be in so simple a form that he who ran might read.
§ THE SOLICITOR-GENERAL (Sir W. ROBSON,) South Shieldssaid the right hon. Gentleman had succeeded in putting very humorously what were not uncommon difficulties in all legislation by reference. He thought the clause was open to some of the objections to legislation by reference, but that it was on the whole simpler than most cases where this-course was adopted.
§ SIR E. CARSONNo wonder we grow rich!
§ SIR W. ROBSONsaid what the clause did was to repeal and re-enact and that was precisely the method which was adopted by those who objected to legislation by reference. That was what this clause did, and thus it gave rise to the apparent absurdities to which the right hon. Gentleman had referred. The Act of 1900 was not repealed entirely. What was desired was to make an alteration in sub-section (1) of that Act, and therefore, sub-section (1) was repealed and another sub-section substituted for it in this Bill. This was a measure in which in, future would be read the Act of 1900 with the Amendments in this Bill. The references to the Act of 1883 in the section were perfectly proper. The section said that the provisions of this Bill were to be subject not merely to the Act of 1900 but to the principal Act of 1883. He did not think the Government draftsman; would be able to make a better job of 1263 the Bill unless the expedient of a consolidating and codifying Act were adopted. That course, however, could not be pursued in every case if time were to be economised.
§ COLONEL LOCKWOOD (Essex, Epping)said he had no wish to lose himself in the mazes of the law. So far as he knew, the difficulties alluded to by the Solicitor-General and other legal Members might not be apparent to laymen such as himself. But the laymen, who were generally the owners of the property in such cases as they were now discussing, if they were not aware of the difficulties, were painfully aware of the injustice inflicted by this Bill. The Solicitor-General for Scotland had made perfectly plain the difficulty into which they had been landed by making this Bill apply to both England and Scotland. He did not wish to argue the question of the inherent capabilities of the soil. He would take the case of land near a large town, which for years had been farmed by the tenant under the ordinary system of rotation of crops. As the town increased in size the tenant discovered that a fortune might be made by growing vegetables or fruit. In his opinion it was most unfair that the whole characteristics of the farm should be altered without the consent of the landlord. The landlord knew what the soil was capable of producing, and he might be in a position to advise his tenant that he would be wrong if he tried to establish a market garden upon certain land. If the tenant went on with his plan against the advice of his landlord, was it right in case he did not succeed that he should charge his landlord with a large amount as compensation when the whole of the money had been laid out against the landlord's advice and knowledge? Such a proceeding would be grossly unfair, because the owner or his agent was much better acquainted with the capabilities of the soil than the tenant. He should therefore support the Amendment.
§ MR. WALTER LONG (Dublin, S.)said he listened with astonishment to the Solicitor-General's defence of the draftsmanship of the Bill. The hon. and learned Gentleman unfortunately would not be available to assist the unlucky agriculturists all over the country who 1264 if this Bill passed would be called on to try and understand its terms. Although he was familiar with the Acts of 1883 and 1900 it took him some time to understand what was the intention of the promoters of the present Bill. The whole object of the sub-section was to get rid of the words, "the inherent capability of the soil," and his hon. friends desired that they should be retained. What the promoters of the Bill had lost sight of was that in 1900 the opinion he held, and which he gave expression to, as to the accurate description of the effect of these words was not shared by a great many other Members, who resisted his suggestion and held that the excision of these words from the Statute would have a serious effect. The result was that the words were inserted in another place, and the Amendment accepted when the Bill came back to this House. During the six years that had passed there had not been one single instance where the retention of the words had caused either doubt or difficulty, and he submitted that the experience of those six years justified the action taken by his hon. friends. Their view was shared by many practical agriculturists in and out of the House. His view in 1900 was what it was now, namely, that whether these words were inserted or not no practical valuer who was called upon to deal with valuations of agricultural improvements effected by tenants could by any possibility exclude from his purview what was due for the cultivation of the soil according to the agreement of the tenant. Two distinct operations were performed by the tenant. He took his farm under an agreement which imposed certain obligations, one of which was to pursue a system of good husbandry or a system in accordance with the custom of the district, and in return the tenant got the land for a particular rent. It was the custom of the tenant to spend a certain amount of money upon improvements, but the mere farming of the land was a part of the condition upon which the tenant farmer received the farm at a particular rent. If the tenant did not enter into that undertaking the question of rent would at once have been materially altered. If the tenant was a good farmer he would go 1265 beyond his agreement, speculate and put capital into his farm, often with beneficial results. There were many farmers possessing intelligence, industry and foresight, who spent money upon the land from which no good result had followed and for which the tenant had no claim at all for compensation. Therefore he believed the promoters of the Bill would do well not to lay so much importance on the retention of the words, or to embark in such complicated legislation for so small a result.
§ COLONEL KENYON-SLANEY (Shropshire, Newport)reminded the House that during the discussion on the Bill of 1883, introduced by a Liberal Government, the late Lord Herschell most emphatically endorsed those words as words that should be in the Bill, and that opinion was corroborated by the united opinion of those responsible for the introduction of that measure. When they were asked to consider this Bill as merely a re-echo of the Bill of 1900 he had a right to remind the Liberal Party of what was the opinion of their chief lawyer when the subject first came under the consideration of Parliament. As regarded this particular Amendment he had no very strong feeling. He quite realised that valuers probably did not take into account the inherent capabilities of the soil, but was it not possible that valuers when they saw the provision was taken out might think it was a direct instruction that they should take improvements due to those capabilities into consideration? He thought they should correct the subsection by re-introducing those words, because they were, to a certain extent, a safeguard.
§ MR. ABEL SMITH (Hertfordshire, Hertford)said he was afraid that the leaving out of those words might be taken by the valuers in a wrong sense in adjudicating upon what was really the property of the owner of the soil. He was one of those who had never been able to understand why people should have any difficulty in understanding what these words meant. The meaning was perfectly clear. The "inherent capabilities of the soil" was the fertility of the soil which might hitherto have been lying latent. It was the property of 1266 the owner of the soil, to secure which possibly he had paid £40, £50, or even £100 per acre. It was the only means by which the owner could secure any return for the capital he laid out in purchasing the land. What was the occupier of the land who made improvements by his skill and labour entitled to? So long as he remained in occupation of the land he enjoyed the results of the improvements he had made, and when his tenancy was determined he was justly entitled to be compensated for the labour and capital which he had expended, and which he had not enjoyed to the full. If they left out the words, "inherent capabilities," it might result in the outgoing tenant receiving compensation out of all proportion to the labour and money which he had expended in bringing the latent fertility to fruition. A clear distinction was drawn years ago by Sir John Lawes, the greatest authority on these questions, between the condition of the land as left and its natural fertility. The outgoing tenant was not entitled to compensation for what Sir John Lawes called the natural fertility of the soil, which in the case of agricultural land was something the owner had paid for. He impressed upon the promoters of the Bill that it would be much more satisfactory, and that it would save a great deal of time if this sub-section were left out altogether. By retaining the words, "inherent capabilities of the soil" they would have been much more likely to secure fair dealing in these matters.
§ MR. COURTHOPE (Sussex, Rye)said he only wanted to add a concrete instance of what might be the probable effect of rejecting this Amendment and retaining the clause as it now stood. His right hon. and gallant friend the Member for the Newport Division of Shropshire had said that the effect of cutting out the words "the inherent capabilities of the soil" from the Statute Book must give the impression to a valuer or arbitrator that the inherent capabilities of the soil were intended by this House to be the property of the tenant. He would take a case which frequently happened. A farmer rented some land at say £1 an acre. Part of it he decided to turn 1267 with the permission of the landlord, into a market garden. He expended £50 an acre in so doing, and it would not be at all improbable that he would increase the annual value of the land to as much as £7, £8, or £10 an acre. When he went he would be entitled to compensation at the rate of twenty or twenty-five years purchase on the increase. Working that out on ten acres he would get compensation under this section amounting to £1,500, whereas his total expenditure on the land was only £500. That would almost certainly occur if these words were deliberately cut out of the Statute. He hoped the promoters of the Bill would see their way to cut out the sub-section. He should not have
§ stood out much for putting in the words "inherent capabilities of the soil" if they were not on the Statute-book already, but as they were there they ought to keep them there.
§ MR. SOARES (Devonshire, Barnstaple)moved that the Question be now put.
§ MR. SPEAKERI think the House is now prepared to come to a decision on the Amendment.
§ Question put.
§ The House divided:—Ayes, 226; Noes, 74. (Division List No. 167.)
1269AYES. | ||
Abraham, William (Rhondda) | Donelan, Captain A. | Jones, William (Carnarvonshire |
Acland, Francis Dyke | Duffy, William J. | Joyce, Michael |
Allen, A. Acland (Christchurch | Duncan, J. H. (York, Otley) | Kearley, Hudson E. |
Allen, Charles P. (Stroud) | Duncan, Robert (Lanark, Govan | Kekewich, Sir George |
Ashton, Thomas Gair | Dunn, A. Edward (Camborne) | Kelley, George D. |
Baring, Godfrey (Isleof Wight) | Dunne, Major E. Martin(Walsall | Kennedy, Vincent Paul |
Barlow, Percy (Bedford) | Edwards, Enoch (Hanley) | Kilbride, Denis |
Barnard, E. B. | Esmonde, Sir Thomas | Kincaid-Smith, Captain |
Barran, Rowland Hirst | Evans, Samuel T. | King, Alfred John (Knutsford) |
Barry, E. (Cork, S.) | Everett, R. Lacey | Lamb, Edmund G. (Leomisnter) |
Beale, W. P. | Farrell, James Patrick | Lamb, Ernest H.(Rochester) |
Beck, A. Cecil | Fenwick, Charles | Lambert, George |
Bellairs, Carlyon | Ferguson, R. C. Munro | Lamont, Norman |
Bennett, E. N. | Ffrench, Peter | Law, Hugh A. (Donegal, W.) |
Bertram, Julius | Fiennes, Hon. Eustace | Layland-Barratt, Francis |
Billson, Alfred | Flynn, James Christopher | Lea, Hugh Cecil (St. Paneras, E.) |
Black, Arthur W.(Bedfordshire | Foster, Rt. Hon. Sir Walter | Leese, Sir Joseph F. (Accrington) |
Boland, John | Fullerton, Hugh | Lehmann, R. C. |
Brace, William | Gill, A. H. | Lever, W. H. (Cheshire, Wirral) |
Bright, J. A. | Ginnell, L. | Lewis, John Herbert |
Brunner, J.F.L.(Lancs., Leigh.) | Glendinning, R. G. | Lundon, W. |
Brunner, Sir John T.(Cheshire) | Glover, Thomas | Lupton, Arnold |
Burke, E. Haviland- | Greenwood, Hamar (York) | Luttrell, Hugh Fownes |
Burns, Rt. Hon. John | Gulland, John W. | Macdonald, J. R. (Leicester) |
Burt, Rt. Hon. Thomas | Halpin, J. | MacVeagh, Jeremiah (Down, S.) |
Cameron, Robert | Hammond, John | MacVeigh, Chas. (Donegal, E) |
Cawley, Frederick | Hardy, George A. (Suffolk) | M'Callum, John M. |
Channing, Francis Allston | Harrington, Timothy | M'Crae, George |
Cheetham, John Frederick | Haslam, James (Derbyshire) | M'Laren, H. D. (Stafford, W.) |
Cleland, J. W. | Haslam, Lewis (Monmouth) | M'Micking, Major G. |
Clough, W. | Hayden, John Patrick | Maddison, Frederick |
Coats, Sir T. Glen (Renfrew, W.) | Hazel, Dr. A. E. | Manfield, Harry (Northants) |
Collins, Stephen (Lambeth) | Hazleton, Richard | Marnham, F. J. |
Collins, Sir Wm. J.(S. Pancras, W | Healy, Timothy Michael | Meagher, Michael |
Condon, Thomas Joseph | Hedges, A. Paget | Menzies, Walter |
Corbett, CH(Sussex, E. Grinst'd) | Henderson, Arthur (Durham) | Micklem, Nathaniel |
Cornwall, Sir Edwin A. | Herbert, Col. Ivor (Mon., S.) | Mond, A. |
Crombie, John William | Herbert, T. Arnold (Wycombe | Montagu, E. S. |
Crossley, William J. | Higham, John Sharp | Mooney, J. J. |
Davies, Ellis William (Eifion) | Hogan, Michael | Morgan, J. Lloyd (Carmarthen) |
Delany, William | Hooper, A. G. | Morse, L. L. |
Devlin, Chas. Ramsay (Galway | Hope, W. Bateman (Somerset, N) | Morton, Alpheus Cleophas |
Dewar, Arthur (Edinburgh, S.) | Howard, Hon. Geoffrey | Murphy, John |
Dewar, John A. (Inverness-sh. | Hutton, Alfred Eddison | Murray, James |
Dickson-Poynder, Sir John P. | Hyde, Clarendon | Myer, Horatio |
Dodd, W. H. | Johnson, John (Gateshead)] | Nicholls, George |
Dolan, Charles Joseph | Jones, Leif (Appleby) | Nicholson, Chas. N. (Doncast'r) |
Nolan, Joseph | Rose, Charles Day | Trevelyan, Charles Philips |
Norton, Capt. Cecil William | Rowlands, J. | Ure, Alexander |
Nussey, Thomas Willans | Rutherford, V. H. (Brentford) | Verney, F. W. |
O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny) | Schwann, C. Duncan (Hyde) | Walker, H. De R. (Leicester) |
O'Connor, John (Kildare, N.) | Scott, A H (Asthonunder Lyne) | Wallace, Robert |
O'Doherty, Philip | Sears, J. E. | Walsh, Stephen |
O'Donnell, T. (Kerry, W.) | Seddon, J. | Walters, John Tudor |
O'Hare, Patrick | Shackleton, David James | Walton, Joseph (Barnsley) |
O'Kelly, James(Roscommon, N | Shaw, Rt. Hon. T. (Hawick B. | Ward, John (Stoke upon Trent |
O'Shaughnessy, P. J. | Shipman, Dr. John G. | Wason, Eugene (Clackmannan |
Parker, James (Halifax) | Silcock, Thomas Ball | Wason, J. Cathcart (Orkney) |
Partington, Oswald | Smeaton, Donald Mackenzie | Watt, H. Anderson |
Paul, Herbert | Smyth, Thomas F. (Leitrim, S.) | Wedgwood, Josiah C. |
Pease, J. A. (Saffron Walden) | Soames, Arthur Wellesley | Weir, James Galloway |
Philipps, J Wynford (Pembroke | Spicer, Albert | White, J. D. (Dumbartonshire) |
Power, Patrick Joseph | Stanger, H. Y. | White, Luke (York, E. R.) |
Price, C.E. (Edinb'gh, Central | Stanley, Hn. A. Lyulph (Chesh.) | Whitehead, Rowland |
Price, Robert John (Norfolk, E. | Steadman, W. C. | Whiteley, George (York. W. R.) |
Rainy, A. Rolland | Stewart, Halley (Greenock) | Whitley, J. H. (Halifax) |
Raphael, Herbert H. | Stewart-Smith, D. (Kendal) | Wilkie, Alexander |
Rea, Russell (Gloucester) | Strachey, Sir Edward | Williams, Osmond (Merioneth) |
Reddy, M. | Straus, B. S. (Mile End) | Wilson, P. W. (St. Pancras, S.) |
Redmond, J. E. (Waterford) | Sullivan, Donal | Wilson, W. T. (Westhoughton |
Roberts, Charles H. (Lincoln) | Summerbell, T. | Woodhouse, Sir J. (Huddersf'd |
Roberts, G. H. (Norwich) | Sutherland, J. E. | Young, Samuel |
Robertson, Sir G. Scott (Bradf'rd | Taylor, John W. (Durham) | |
Robertson, J. M. (Tyneside) | Taylor, Theodore C.(Radcliffe) | TELLERS FOR THE AYES—Mr. |
Robinson, S. | Thomas, Sir A. (Glamorgan, E.) | Winfrey and Mr. Soares. |
Robson, Sir William Snowdon | Thomasson, Franklin | |
Roche, John (Galway, East) | Tomkinson, James | |
NOES. | ||
Acland-Hood, Rt Hn Sir Alex. F. | Doughty, Sir George | Nield, Herbert |
Anson, Sir William Reynell | Faber, George Denison (York) | O'Neill, Hon. Robert Torrens |
Anstruther-Gray, Major | Finch, Rt. Hon. George H. | Percy, Earl |
Aubrey-Fletcher, Rt. Hn. Sir H | Fletcher, J. S. | Remnant, James Farquharson |
Balcarrss, Lord | Forster, Henry William | Ropner, Colonel Sir Robert |
Balfour, Rt. Hn. AJ(City Lond | Gardner, Ernest (Berks, East) | Salter, Arthur Clavell |
Balfour, Capt. C. B. (Hornsey) | Gibbs. G. A. (Bristol, West) | Scott, Sir S. (Marylebone, W.) |
Barrie, H. T.(Londonderry, N.) | Hardy, Laurence(Kent, Ashford | Smith, Abel H. (Hertford, East) |
Beach, Hn. Michael Hugh Hicks | Harrison-Broadley, Col. H. B. | Smith, F.E. (Liverpool, Walton) |
Beckett, Hon. Gervase | Hay, Hon. Claude George | Starkey, John R. |
Bignold, Sir Arthur | Helmsley, Viscount | Stone, Sir Benjamin |
Bowles, G. Stewart | Hervey, F.W.F.(Bury S. Edm'ds | Thomson, W. Mitchell-(Lanark |
Bridgeman, W. Clive | Hill, Sir Clement (Shrewsbury) | Thornton, Percy M. |
Burnyeat, J. D. W. | Hill, Henry Staveley (Staff'sh.) | Walker, Col. W.H. (Lancashire) |
Campbell, Rt. Hon. J. H. M. | Hornby, Sir William Henry | Walrond, Hon. Lionel |
Carson, Rt. Hon. Sir Edw H. | Houston, Robert Paterson | Warde, Col. C. E. (Kent, Mid.) |
Castlereagh, Viscount | Kennaway, Rt. Hn. Sir John H | Williams, Col. R. (Dorset, W. |
Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor) | Kenyon-Slaney, Rt. Hon. Col. W | Willoughby de Eresby, Lord' |
Cecil, Lord John P. Joicey- | Lambton, Hon. Frederick Wm. | Wilson, A. Stanley (York, E.R.) |
Cecil, Lord R. (Marylebone, E.) | Lane-Fox, G. R. | Wolff, Gustav Wilhelm |
Cochrane, Hon. Thos. H. A. E. | Liddell, Henry | Wyndham, Rt. Hon. George |
Corbett, T. L. (Down, North) | Lockwood, Rt. Hn. Lt.-Col. AR | Younger, George |
Courthope, G. Loyd | Long, Rt. Hn. Walter(Dublin, S.) | |
Craig, Capt. James (Down, E.) | M'Calmont, Colonel James | TELLERS FOR THE NOES—Sir |
Craik, Sir Henry | Mason, James F. (Windsor) | Frederick Banbury and |
Dalrymple, Viscount | Nicholson, Wm. G.(Petersfield) | Viscount Turnour. |
§ COLONEL KENYON-SLANEYmoved to add to the end of sub-section (1) the words, "desirous of farming in accordance with the custom of the country." He thought he could make clear to the House that there was substance and reason in his Amendment. He would support it by a reference to a case which occurred on his own estate. As the clause 1270 stood compensation might be awarded to the outgoing tenant for improvements he had made to such amount as fairly represented the value of the improvements to the incoming tenant. It was quite conceivable that a specialised tenant, faming on particular lines, might have effected improvements which would be useless to another tenant who farmed 1271 according to the ordinary conditions of husbandry. In fact, instead of improvements, they might be to the incoming tenant a detriment. He wanted to argue that it was impossible in fairness and equity to say that where a tenancy was determined, the landlord in order to get a new tenant should ask for a tenant who would carry on the same system of farming as had been carried on by the outgoing tenant. In his own experience a tenant had gone in for the breeding of thoroughbred racing stock, and the long rows of loose boxes for the reception of stallions and brood mares were of little or no use to the incoming tenant who wished to farm according to the ordinary custom of that part of the country. The sum to be paid as compensation to the outgoing tenant for improvements was fixed by arbitration at approximately £1,500. But he was not particularly anxious to find another tenant who would devote himself to the same line of business, and the land reverted under the new tenant to the ordinary agricultural system of the district. He found, however, that it would be unfair to charge the new tenant a larger sum than £500 for the advantages of the specialised improvements made by the outgoing tenant, and so he practically lost £1,000. Hon. Gentlemen who were really desirous of maintaining and benefiting the system of agriculture which went to increase the fertility of the soil and increase the employment of labour on the land must not expose landowners to the danger of having to deal with this exceptional, specialised kind of farming, but should look at the question from the point of view of the general interests of agriculture and of the country as a whole. Broadly speaking, the farmers of a district were pretty good judges as to how to use their land, and if there had been established a general custom of farming in a particular district, it might be taken for granted that that was the right system. He believed he had established a case for his Amendment, and he hoped it would be accepted in the interest of fair play, of good agriculture, and of supporting the general level of agriculture, and not sacrificing the general level to certain exceptional kinds of farming. The Amendment was perfectly simple. There was no catch about it. It simply 1272 ensured that if a farm was vacated it should be farmed in accordance with the custom prevailing in the district.
§ LORD TURNOUR (Sussex, Horsham)seconded the Amendment, which he thought was worthy of the consideration of the promoters.
§
Amendment proposed—
In page 1, line 21, after the word 'tenant,' to insert the words 'desirous of farming in accordance with the custom of the county.'"—(Col. Kenyon-Slaney.)
§ Question proposed, "That those words be there inserted."
§ MR. SOARESsincerely hoped that they might not have a long debate on this Amendment. The landlord was protected under the Bill, because it provided that there should be paid such sum as fairly represented the value of the improvement to the incoming tenant. If the words of the right hon. Gentleman were added, either they would be unnecessary or they would impose a further restriction upon the tenant farmer. It was perfectly obvious that in the interest of the tenant farmer they could not accept the Amendment, which would hamper him.
§ MR. LAMBTON (Durham, S.E.)thought the Amendment deserved more consideration than had been given to it. The compensation to be given appeared to be that which would be given to a hypothetical tenant.
§ MR. BRACE (Glamorganshire, S.)trusted that the Amendment would not be accepted. He looked upon it as a species of obstruction, and as being made to render it impossible to pass the Bill into law in the present session. As he understood it, the proposal was that unless the farm was farmed in accordance with the custom of the district, the tenant would not have the advantage of the improvement which he had made. If there was one industry more than another which had suffered from the want of development through invention it was agriculture. He was not a tenant farmer himself; nor on the other hand had he any interest 1273 in wringing out of the tenant farmer anything which fairly belonged to him. ["Who is?"] He did not want to be led into the discussion of a side issue, and although he was not a tenant farmer himself he had some common sense, and was entitled to argue on behalf of those he represented. Because agriculture had not been allowed to make full use of the inventive genius of the race it had suffered. If the Amendment were adopted it would be impossible for a tenant farmer, no matter how able or desirous, to strike out a line for himself without endangering his right to compensation.
§ LORD HELMSLEY (Yorkshire, N.R., Thirsk)protested against they charge which had been made. The position was a most extraordinary one. A Bill dealing with the most important industry in the country had been brought in by young private Members. They had had only two days discussion, and then when an important Amendment was brought forward they were accused of obstruction in order to defeat the measure and to wring further money out of tenants. It had not been the practice of landlords of this country to wring money out of tenants. When the hon. Member talked about inventive genius he would point out "to him the many elaborate machines which were now used in agriculture which he must have seen in his perambulations through his constituency. They objected to giving compensation for something which might be of no good at all as the Bill proposed, and the money paid for which for the purposes of the incoming tenant might as well be thrown into the sea.
§ MR. NUSSEY (Pontefract)recognised that the Amendment was moved to meet what might be a genuine grievance under the Bill. To take the extreme case of a stud farm, given by the right hon. Gentleman the Member for the Newport Division, it would no doubt be difficult to find an incoming tenant to whom the alterations made would be of value. The cases taken, however, were extreme and exceptional, and would come under the existing law. The words of the Amendment might, moreover, militate 1274 against enterprise and industry. For these reasons he felt great difficulty in supporting the Amendment, though he recognised the motives underlying it. He thought it would come better in Clause 7, where he had put down an Amendment of a similar character so as to allow full liberty for the enterprise of the tenant while maintaining the characteristics of the holding. He would like to see a farmer have full liberty to make what improvements he liked, but at the same time he thought it would be hard for a man who let a farm for one purpose to have returned to him at the end of the tenancy a farm of quite a different character. Therefore, although he could not support this Amendment, he believed it was moved with the idea of meeting a real difficulty. The Bill went much farther than any previous Act and was promoted in favour of a particular class connected with the industry, and that being so, the House ought to look to all the classes concerned in that industry. Their interests were more or less indentical, whether they were landlords, future tenants, or sitting tenants, and they centred in the better cultivation of the land.
§ SIR H. AUBREY-FLETCHERsaid he rose to support the Amendment of his hon. friend, but he doubted whether he should have intervened at all had it not been for the speech of the hon. Member for South Glamorgan, who represented that portion of Glamorgan in which he him-self was a considerable landed proprietor. He had brought a charge against the landlord party and his hon. friend of endeavouring to wring money out of the occupying tenants. He would only deal with the county of Glamorgan. He thought he ought to do so in justice to the tenantry who occupied lands on the Aubrey Estate in Glamorgan. He did not claim to have one thousand agricultural tenants on his property, which consisted of 8,000 or 9,000 acres in the hon. Member's constituency, but he had a considerable number. He did not think that in any portion of Glamorgan there was any wish among agricultural tenants for a change in the tenure on which they now held. He would remind the House that some years ago there 1275 was a land agitation and a Land Commission in South Wales, but no portion of the tenants in Glamorgan would have anything to do with the agitation, because they were satisfied with the terms of their agreements. The Amendment of his hon. friend provided that the farm should be carried on in accordance with the custom of the country. In the portion of the country to which he alluded the custom was very simple and he did not think the tenants had any wish to alter it. They were thriving and industrious, and they were enabled by their industry to pay their rents with great promptitude. He was sure they had no wish for any change. He thought he was justified on behalf of his friends who were large landowners in the county of Glamorgan in repudiating what the hon. Member had said with regard to tenants having money wrung out of them. He did not wish to go into personal matters and would merely say that in fifteen years he had spent some £20,000 for the benefit of the tenancies.
§ MR. MUNRO FERGUSON (Leith Burghs)said that in Committee this clause was discussed fully, and with a singular amount of freedom, and he did not think that either those who represented the landlords or those who represented the tenants very strongly opposed the clause. In his opinion it was not wise in the interests of agriculture that tenants should be tied up too tightly by their agreements. He thought they needed to have some freedom and initiative as regarded the cultivation of the land. The purposes for which the farm was to be used was very much determined by the character of the buildings and that was a matter which was left to the discretion of the owner by this Bill. [Dissent.] He thought it was, but if it was found when Clause 7 was discussed that the repairs did not mean "repairs" but reconstruction, he would be very glad to join in making it clear that the owner should have full discretion as to the character of the buildings. If he was right, the buildings, fences, roads, and so forth, permanent fixtures, remained in the discretion of 1276 the owner, and that was a great security against the whole character of the holding being changed without his consent. Therefore he thought it was not necessary to discuss some of these points at length. It was of course impossible to discuss the clause without having an eye on all the other clauses, but he thought each clause as it came should be discussed on its merits. In his opinion this clause was in the interest of agriculture and should be so regarded.
§ MR. GEORGE FABER (York)felt quite sure that most Members-were in favour of a genuine farmer obtaining compensation for genuine improvements that he had made. What they wished to guard against was paying for unnecessary improvements made by what he would call, for want of a better term, a fancy farmer. And this became more apparent when they looked at Clause 7. Under the law as it stood at present the planting of fruit trees did require the consent of the landlord, but under this Bill as drawn that consent was not required. Let him put a case. A tenant of a speculative turn of mind took a farm of 200 acres, and thinking part of it was suitable for fruit farming, laid down at a cost of £60 an acre 20 acres of that farm to fruit. When he left the farm the value of the improvement might be nothing. In fact the landlord might find it difficult to get a tenant who wanted 20 acres of fruit trees on the farm. Was that an improvement for which the landlord ought to pay compensation? Did they not rather desire to encourage genuine improvements of the land of the farm? Looking at the matter from that point of view, he agreed with the Amendment, because he believed it tended in that direction. If the House did not find itself able to accept the Amendment, he agreed with the hon. Member for Durham that the best course would be to change the word "an" to "the," which would have the effect of removing the difficulty of arriving at the value of the improvement. The value of the improvement to "an incoming tenant" was a problematical value, because no tenant 1277 might be found, whereas the value to the "incoming tenant" was real. Therefore, if they substituted the word "the" for the word "an" they would shut out and guard against the possibility of the landlord paying for an improvement which might not only be of no use, but possibly be harmful to him.
§ MR. SOARESrose in his place, and claimed to move, "That the Question be now put.
§ Question put "That the Question be now put."
§ The House divided:—Ayes, 270; Noes, 68. (Division List No. 168.)
1279AYES. | ||
Abraham, William (Rhondda) | Dillon, John | Joyce, Michael |
Acland, Francis Dyke | Dodd, W. H. | Kearley, Hudson E. |
Adkins, W. Ryland | Dolan, Charles: Joseph | Kekewich, Sir George |
Allen, A. Acland (Christchurch) | Donelan, Captain A. | Kelley, George D. |
Allen, Charles P. (Stroud) | Duffy, William J. | Kennedy, Vincent Paul |
Ashton, Thomas Gair | Duncan, C.(Barrow-in-Furness) | Kilbride, Denis |
Astbury John Meir | Duncan, J. H. (York, Otley) | Kincaid-Smith, Captain |
Baker, Sir John (Portsmouth) | Duncan, Robert Lanark, Govan | King, Alfred John (Knutsford) |
Baring, Godfrey (Isle of Wight) | Dunn, A. Edward (Camborne) | Lamb, Edmund G. (Leominster |
Barlow, Percy (Bedford) | Dunne, Major E. Martin (Walsall | Lamb, Ernest H. (Rochester) |
Barnard, E. B. | Edwards, Clement (Denbigh) | Lambert, George |
Barran, Rowland Hirst | Edwards, Enoch (Hanley) | Lamont, Norman |
Barry, E. (Cork, S.) | Esmonde, Sir Thomas | Law, Hugh A. (Donegal, W.) |
Beale, W. P. | Evans, Samuel T. | Layland-Barratt, Francis |
Beaumont, W. C. B. (Hexham) | Everett, R. Lacey | Lea, Hugh Cecil (St. Pancras, E.) |
Beck, A. Cecil | Farrell, James Patrick | Leese, Sir Joseph F. (Accrington |
Bellairs, Carlyon | Fenwick, Charles | Lehmann, R. C. |
Bennett, E. N. | Ferens, T. R. | Lever, W.H. (Cheshire, Wirral) |
Bertram, Julius | Ferguson, R. C. Munro | Lewis, John Herbert |
Bethell, T. R. (Essex, 'Maldon) | Ffrench, Peter | Lough, Thomas |
Billson, Alfred | Fiennes, Hon. Eustace | Lundon, W. |
Black, Arthur W.(Bedfordshire | Flavin, Michael Joseph | Lupton, Arnold |
Blake, Edward | Flynn, James Christopher | Luttrell, Hugh Fownes |
Boland, John | Foster, Rt. Hon. Sir Walter | Macdonald, J. R. (Leicester) |
Brace, William | Fullerton, Hugh | Macdonald, J. M(Falkirk Burghs |
Branch, James | Gill, A. H. | Mackarness, Frederic C. |
Bright, J. A. | Ginnell, L. | MaeVeagh, Jeremiah (Down, S. |
Brodie, H. C. | Glendinning, R. G. | MacVeigh, Chas. (Donegal, E.) |
Brunner, J.F.L. (Lanes., Leigh) | Glover, Thomas | M'Callum, John M. |
Brunner, Sir John T. (Cheshire) | Greenwood, Hamar (York) | M'Crae, George |
Bryce. Rt. Hn. James (Aberdeen | Guest, Hon. Ivor Churchill | M'Laren, H. D. (Stafford, W.) |
Burke, E. Haviland- | Gulland, John W. | M'Micking, Major G. |
Burnyeat, J. D. W. | Halpin, J. | Maddison, Frederick |
Burt, Rt. Hon. Thomas | Hammond, John | Manfield, Harry (Northants) |
Cameron, Robert | Hardy, George A (Suffolk) | Mansfield, H. Rendall (Lincoln) |
Cawley, Frederick | Harmsworth, Cecil B. (Worc'r) | Marnham, F. J. |
Channing, Francis Allston | Harrington, Timothy | Meagher, Michael |
Cheetham, John Frederick | Haslam, James (Derbyshire) | Menzies, Walter |
Clarke, C. Goddard | Haslam, Lewis (Monmouth) | Micklem, Nathaniel |
Cleland, J. W. | Hayden, John Patrick | Molteno, Percy Alport |
Clough, W. | Hazel, Dr. A. E. | Mond, A. |
Coats, Sir T. Glen (Renfrew, W.) | Hazleton, Richard | Montagu, E. S. |
Collins, Stephen (Lambeth) | Hedges, A. Paget | Mooney, J. J |
Condon, Thomas Joseph | Henderson, Arthur (Durham) | Morgan, J. Lloyd (Carmarthen) |
Corbett, CH(Sussex,(E. Grinst'd | Henderson, J.M. (Aberdeen, W.) | Morse, L. L. |
Cornwall, Sir Edwin A. | Henry, Charles S. | Morton, Alpheus Cleophas |
Cowan, W. H. | Herbert, T. Arnold (Wycombe) | Murnaghan George |
Crean, Eugene | Higham, John Sharp | Murphy, John |
Crombie, John William | Hogan, Michael | Murray, James |
Crossley, William J. | Hope, W. Bateman (Somerset, N | Myer, Horatio |
Davies, Ellis William (Eifion) | Howard, Hon. Geoffrey | Napier, T. B. |
Davies, Timothy (Fulham) | Hutton, Alfred Eddison | Nicholls, George |
Davies, W. Howell (Bristol, S. | Hyde, Clarendon | Nicholson, Chas. N. (Doncaster |
Delany, William | Jardine, Sir J. | Nolan, Joseph |
Devlin, Chas. Ramsay (Galway | Johnson, John (Gateshead) | Norman, Henry |
Dewar, Arthur (Edinburgh, S.) | Jones, Leif (Appleby) | Norton, Capt. Cecil William |
Dewar, John A. (Inverness-sh. | Jones, William(Carnarvonshire | Nussey, Thomas Willans |
Dickson-Poynder, Sir John P. | Jowett, F. W. | O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny) |
O'Connor, James (Wicklow, W. | Rogers, F. E. Newman | Torrance, A. M. |
O Connor, John (Kildare, N.) | Rose, Charles Day | Toulmin, George |
O'Doherty, Philip | Rowlands, J. | Ure, Alexander |
O'Donnell, T. (Kerry, W.) | Samuel, Herbert L. (Cleveland) | Verney, F. W. |
O'Grady, J. | Schwann, C. Duncan (Hyde) | Walker, H. De R. (Leicester)' |
O'Hare, Patrick | Scott, AH (Ashton under Lyne) | Wallace, Robert |
O'Malley, William | Sears, J. E. | Walsh, Stephen |
O'Shaughnessy, P. J. | Seaverns, J. H. | Walters, John Tudor |
Parker, James (Halifax) | Seddon, J. | Ward, John (Stoke upon Trent) |
Partington, Oswald | Shackleton, David James | Wason, Eugene (Clackmannan) |
Paul, Herbert | Shaw, Rt. Hon. T. (Hawick B. | Wason, J. Cathcart (Orkney) |
Pearson, Sir W.D.(Colchester) | Shipman, Dr. John G. | Waterlow, D. S. |
Pease, J. A. (Saffron Walden) | Silcock, Thomas Ball | Watt, H. Anderson |
Philipps, J Wynford (Pembroke) | Smeaton, Donald Mackenzie | Wedgwood, Josiah C |
Philipps, Owen C. (Pembroke) | Smyth, Thomas F. (Leitrim, S. | Weir, James Galloway |
Power, Patrick Joseph | Snowden, P. | White, J. D. (Dumbartonshire) |
Price, F. E. (Edinb'gh, Central) | Soames, Arthur Wellesley | White, Luke (York, E. R.) |
Price, Robert J. (Norfolk, E.) | Spicer, Albert | White, Patrick (Meath, North) |
Rainy, A. Rolland | Stanger, H. Y. | Whitehead, Rowland |
Raphael, Herbert H. | Stanley, Hn A Lyulph (Chesh.) | Whiteley, George (York, W.R.> |
Rea. Russell (Gloucester) | Steadman, W. C. | Whitley, J. H. (Halifax) |
Reddy, M. | Stewart, Halley (Greenock) | Wilkie, Alexander |
Redmond, John E. (Waterford | Stewart-Smith, D. (Kendal) | Williams, Llewelyn(Carmarthen) |
Renton, Major Leslie | Strachey, Sir Edward | Williams, Osmond (Merioneth) |
Richards, T. F. (Wolverh'mptn | Straus, B. S. (Mile End) | Wilson, Hn. C.H.W. (Hull, W) |
Ridsdale, E. A. | Sullivan, Donal | Wilson, J W. (Worcestersh. N.) |
Roberts, Charles H.(Lincoln) | Summer bell, T. | Wilson, P. W.(St. Pancras, S.) |
Roberts, G. H. (Norwich) | Sutherland, J. E. | Wilson, W. T. (Westhoughton) |
Robertson, Sir G. Scott(Bradf'd | Taylor, John AV. (Durham) | Woodhouse, Sir J. T. (Huddersf'd) |
Robertson, J. M. (Tyneside) | Taylor, Theodore C. (Radcliffe) | Young, Samuel |
Robinson, S. | Thomas, Sir A(Glamorgan, E.) | |
Robson, Sir William Snowdon | Thomasson Franklin | TELLERS FOB THE AYES—Mr. |
Roche, John (Galway, East) | Tomkinson, James | Soares and Mr. Winfrey |
NOES. | ||
Acland-Hood, Rt. Hn Sir Alex. F. | Fletcher, J. S. | O'Neill, Hon. Robert Torrens |
Anstruther-Gray, Major | Forster, Henry William | Pease, Herbert Pike (Darlingt'n |
Arkwright, John Stanhope | Gardner, Ernest (Berks, East) | Remnant, James Farquharson |
Aubrey-Fletcher, Rt. Hn. Sir H | Gibbs, G. A. (Bristol, West) | Ropner, Colonel Sir Robert |
Balcarres, Lord | Haddock, George R. | Smith, Abel H. (Hertford, East |
Balfour, Rt. Hn. A.J. (City Lond | Hardy, Laurence (Kent, Ashford | Smith, F.E. (Liverpool, Walton) |
Balfour, Capt. C. B. (Hornsey) | Harrison-Broadley, Col. H. B. | Starkey, John R. |
Banbury, Sir Frederick Gerorge | Hay, Hon. Claude George | Stone, Sir Benjamin |
Baring, Hon. Guy (Winchester | Helmsley, Viscount | Thomson, W. Mitchell (Lanark) |
Beach, Hn. Michael Hugh Hicks | Hervey, F. W. F. (BuryS. Edm'ds | Thornton, Percy M. |
Beckett, Hon. Gervase | Hill, Sir Clement (Shrewsbury) | Turnour, Viscount |
Bignold, Sir Arthur | Hill, Henry Staveley (Staff'sh.) | Valentia, Viscount |
Bridgeman, W. Clive | Hills, J. W. | Walker, Col. W.H. (Lancashire). |
Campbell, Rt. Hon. J. H. M. | Hobhouse, Charles E. H. | Walrond, Hon. Lionel |
Castlereagh, Viscount | Hornby, Sir William Henry | Warde, Col. C. E. (Kent, Mid.) |
Cave. George | Houston, Robert Paterson | Whitbread, Howard |
Cecil. Lord John P. Joicey- | Kennaway, Rt. Hn. Sir John H | Williams, Col. R. (Dorset, W.) |
Corbett, T. L. (Down, North) | Lambton, Hon. Frederick Wm. | Willoughby de Eresby, Lord |
Craig, Capt. James (Down, E.) | Lane-Fox, G. R. | Wolff, Gustav Wilhelm |
Craik, Sir Henry | Liddell, Henry | Younger, George |
Cross, Alexander | Lockwood, Rt. Hn. Lt.-Col. R. | |
Dalrymple, Viscount | M'Calmont, Colonel James | TELLERS FOR THE NOES— |
Faber, George Denison (York) | Mason, James F. (Windsor) | Colonel Kenyon-Slaney |
Finch, Rt. Hon. George H. | Nicholson, Wm. G, (Petersfield | and Mr. Courthope. |
§ Question put accordingly, "That those words be inserted in the Bill."
1280§ The House divided:—Ayes, 67; Noes, 269. (Division List No. 169.)
1283AYES. | ||
Acland-Hood, Rt Hn. Sir Alex. F. | Balcarres, Lord | Baring, Hn. Guy (Winchester) |
Anstruther-Gray, Major | Balfour, Rt. Hn. A.J. (City Lon. | Beach, Hn. Michael Hugh Hicks |
Arkwright, John Stanhope | Balfour, Capt. C.B. (Hornsey) | Beckett, Hon. Gervase |
Aubrey-Fletcher, Rt. Hn. Sir H. | Banbury, Sir Frederick George | Bignold, Sir Arthur |
Bridgeman, W. Clive | Hay, Hon. Claude George | Ropner, Colonel Sir Robert |
Campbell, Rt. Hon. J. H. M. | Helmsley, Viscount | Smith, Abel H. (Hertford, East) |
Castlereagh, Viscount | Hervey, F.W. F. (BuryS Edm'ds | Smith, F.E.(Liverpool, Walton) |
Cave, George | Hill, Sir Clement (Shrewsbury) | Starkey, John R. |
Cecil, Lord John P. Joicey | Hill, Henry Staveley (Staff'sh.) | Stone, Sir Benjamin |
Corbett, T. L. (Down, North) | Hills, J. W. | Thomson, W. Mitchell (Lanark) |
Craig, Captain James(Down E. | Hornby, Sir William Henry | Thornton, Percy M. |
Craik, Sir Henry | Houston, Robert Paterson | Turnour, Viscount |
Dalrymple, Viscount | Kennaway, Rt. Hn. Sir John H | Valentia, Viscount |
Duncan, Robert (Lanark, Govan | Lambton, Hon. Frederick Wm | Walker, Col. W. H(Lancashire) |
Faber, George Denison (York) | Lane-Fox, G. R. | Walrond, Hon. Lionel |
Fell, Arthur | Liddell, Henry | Warde, Col. C. E. (Kent, Mid.) |
Finch, Rt. Hn. George H. | Lockwood, Rt. Hn. Lt.-Col. A.R | Williams, Col. R. (Dorset, W.) |
Fletcher. J.S. | M'Calmont, Colonel James | Wolff, Gustav Wilhelm |
Forster, Henry William | Marks, H. H. (Kent) | Younger, George |
Gardner, Ernest (Berks, East) | Mason, James F. (Windsor) | |
Gibbs, G. A. (Bristol, West) | Nicholson, Wm. G. (Petersfield | TELLERS FOR THE AYES— |
Haddock, George R. | O'Neill, Hn. Robert Torrens | Colonel Kenyon-Slaney and |
Hardy, Laurence(Kent, Ashford | Pease, Herbert Pike(Darlington | Mr. Courthope. |
Harrison-Broadley, Col. H. B | Remnant, James Farquharson | |
NOES. | ||
Abraham, William (Rhondda) | Crossley, William J. | Henderson, J.M.(Aberdeen, W. |
Acland, Francis Dyke | Davies, Ellis William (Eifion) | Henry, Charles S. |
Adkins, W. Ryland | Davies, Timothy (Fulham) | Herbert, T. Arnold(Wycombe) |
Allen, A. Acland (Christchurch) | Davies, W. Howell (Bristol, S.) | Higham, John Sharp |
Allen, Charles P. (Stroud) | Delany, William | Hobhouse, Charles E. H. |
Ashton, Thomas Gair | Devlin, Charles Ramsay(Galw'y | Hogan, Michael |
Astbury, John Meir | Dewar, John A. (Inverness-sh. | Hope, W. Bateman(Somerset, N. |
Baker, Sir John (Portsmouth) | Dillon, John | Howard, Hon. Geoffrey |
Baring, Godfrey(Isle of Wight) | Dodd, W. H. | Hutton, Alfred Eddison |
Barlow, Percy (Bedford) | Dolan, Charles Joseph | Hyde, Clarendon |
Barnard, E. B. | Donelan, Captain A. | Jardine, Sir J. |
Barran, Rowland Hirst | Duffy, William J. | Johnson, John (Gateshead) |
Barry, E. (Cork, S-) | Duncan, C. (Barrow-in-Furness | Jones, Leif (Appleby) |
Beale, W. P. | Duncan, J. H. (York, Otley) | Jones, William (Carnarvonshire |
Beck, A. Cecil | Dunn, A. Edward (Camborne) | Jowett, F. W. |
Bellairs, Carlyon | Dunne, Major E. Martin (Walsall) | Joyce, Michael |
Bennett, E. N. | Edwards, Clement (Denbigh) | Kearley, Hudson E. |
Bertram, Julius | Edwards, Enoch (Hanley) | Kekewich, Sir George |
Bethell, T. R. (Essex, Maldon) | Esmonde, Sir Thomas | Kelley, George D. |
Billson, Alfred | Evans, Samuel T. | Kennedy, Vincent Paul |
Black, Arthur W.(Bedfordshire | Everett, R. Lacey | Kilbride, Denis |
Blake, Edward | Farrell, James Patrick | Kincaid-Smith, Captain |
Boland, John | Fenwick, Charles | King, Alfred John (Knutsford) |
Brace, William | Ferens, T. R. | Lamb, Edmund G. (Leominst'r |
Branch, James | Ferguson, R. C. Munro | Lamb, Ernest H. (Rochester) |
Bright, J. A. | Ffrench, Peter | Lambert, George |
Brodie, H. C. | Fiennes, Hon. Eustace | Lamont, Norman |
Brunner, J.F.L.(Lancs., Leigh) | Flavin, Michael Joseph | Layland-Barratt, Francis |
Buckmaster, Stanley O. | Foster, Rt. Hon. Sir Walter | Lea, Hugh Cecil (St. Pancras, E. |
Burke, E. Haviland- | Fullerton, Hugh | Leese, Sir Joseph F.(Accrington |
Burnyeat, J. D. W. | Gill, A. H. | Lehmann, R. C. |
Burt, Rt. Hon. Thomas | Ginnell, L. | Lever, A. Levy(Essex, Harwich) |
Byles, William Pollard | Glendinning, R. G | Lever, W. H. (Cheshire, Wirral) |
Cameron, Robert | Glover, Thomas | Lewis, John Herbert |
Cawley, Frederick | Greenwood, Hamar (York) | Lough, Thomas |
Channing, Francis Allston | Griffith, Ellis J. | Luddon, W. |
Cheetham, John Frederick | Guest, Hon. Ivor Churchill | Lupton, Arnold |
Clarke, C. Goddard | Gulland, John W. | Luttrell, Hugh Fownes |
Cleland, J. W. | Halpin, J. | Lynch, H. B. |
Clough, W. | Hammond, John | Macdonald, J. R. (Leicester) |
Coats, Sir T. Glen(Renfrew W.) | Hardy, George A. (Suffolk) | Macdonald, J.M.(Falkirk B'ghs) |
Collins, Stephen (Lambeth) | Harmsworth, Cecil B. (Worc'r) | Mackarness, Frederic C. |
Condon, Thomas Joseph | Harrington, Timothy | MacVeagh, Jeremiah (Down, S. |
Corbett, C.H.(Sussex, E. Grinst'd | Hart-Davies, T. | MacVeigh, Charles (Donegal, E.) |
Cornwall, Sir Edwin A. | Haslam, James (Derbyshire) | M'Callum, John M. |
Cowan, W. H. | Hayden, John Patrick | M'Crae, George |
Crean, Eugene | Hazel, Dr. A. E. | M'Laren, H. D. (Stafford, W.) |
Crombie, John William | Hazleton, Richard | M'Micking, Major G. |
Cross, Alexander | Henderson, Arthur (Durham) | Maddison, Frederick |
Manfield, Harry (Northants.) | Rainy, A. Rolland | Sutherland, J. E. |
Mansfield, H. Rendall (Lincoln) | Raphael, Herbert H. | Taylor, John W. (Durham) |
Marnham, F. J. | Rea, Russell (Gloucester) | Taylor, Theodore C. (Radcliffe) |
Meagher, Michael | Reddy, M. | Thomas, Sir A. (Glamorgan, E.) |
Menzies, Walter | Redmond, John E. (Waterford | Thomasson, Franklin |
Micklem, Nathaniel | Richards, T. F. (Wolverh'mptn | Tomkinson, James |
Molteno, Percy Alport | Ridesdale, E. A. | Torrance, A. M. |
Mond, A. | Roberts, Charles H. (Lincoln) | Toulmin, George |
Montagu, E. S. | Roberts, G. H. (Norwich) | Trevelyan, Charles Philips |
Mooney, J. J. | Robertson, Sir G. Scott(Bradf'rd | Ure, Alexander |
Morgan, J. Lloyd (Carmarthen | Robertson, J. M. (Tyneside) | Verney, F. W. |
Morse, L. L. | Robinson, S. | Walker. H. De R. (Leicester) |
Morton, Alpheus Cleophas | Robson, Sir William Snowdon | Wallace, Robert |
Murnaghan, George | Roche, John (Galway, East) | Walsh, Stephen |
Murphy, John | Rogers, F. E. Newman | Walters, John Tudor |
Murray, James | Rose, Charles Day | Ward, John (Stoke upon Trent |
Myer, Horatio | Rowlands, J. | Warner, Thomas Courtenay T. |
Napier, T. B. | Samuel, Herbert L. (Cleveland | Wason, Eugene (Clackmannan) |
Nicholls, George | Schwann, C. Duncan (Hyde) | Wason, John Cathcart (Orkney |
Nicholson, Charles N. (Don caster | Schwann, Chas. E. (Manchester) | Waterlow, D. S. |
Nolan, Joseph | Scott, A.H.(Ashton under Lyne | Watt, H. Anderson |
Norman, Henry | Sears, J. E. | Wedgwood, Josiah C. |
Norton, Capt. Cecil William | Seaverns, J. H. | Weir, James Galloway |
O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny) | Seddon, J. | White, J.D. (Dumbartons'ire |
O'Connor, James (Wicklow, W.) | Shackleton, David James | White, Luke (York, E.R.) |
O'Connor, John (Kildare, N.) | Shaw, Rt. Hn. T. (Hawick B.) | White, Patrick (Meath, North) |
O'Doherty, Philip | Shipman, Dr. John G. | Whitehead, Rowland |
O'Donnell U, T. (Kerry, W.) | Silcock, Thomas Ball | Whiteley, George (York, W.R.) |
O'Grady, J. | Sloan, Thomas Henry | Whitley, J. H. (Halifax) |
O'Hare, Patrick | Smyth, Thomas F. (Leitrim, S. | Wilkie, Alexander |
O'Malley, William | Snowden, P. | Williams, Llewelyn (Carmarth'n |
O'Shaughnessy, P. J. | Soames, Arthur Wellesley | Wilson, Hon. C. H. W. (Hull, W |
Parker, James (Halifax) | Spicer, Albert | Wilson, J.W.(Worcestersh., N.) |
Partington, Oswald | Stanger, H. Y. | Wilson, P. W. (St. Pancras, S.) |
Paul, Herbert | Stanley, Hn. A. Lyulph (Chesh. | Wilson, W. T. (Westhoughton) |
Pearson, Sir W. D. (Colchester) | Steadman, W. C. | Woodhouse, Sir J.T (Huddersf'd |
Pease, J. A. (Saffron. Walden) | Stewart, Halley (Greenock) | Young, Samuel |
Philipps, J. Wynford (Pembroke | Stewart-Smith, D. (Kendal) | |
Philipps, Owen C. (Pembroke) | Strachey, Sir Edward | TELLERS FOR THE NOES—Mr. |
Power, Patrick Joseph | Straus, B. S. (Mile End) | Soares and Mr. Winfrey. |
Price, C. E. (Edinb'gh, Central) | Sullivan, Donal | |
Price, Robert John (Norfolk, E. | Summer bell, T. |
§ MR. ABEL SMITH (Hertfordshire, Hertford)moved to leave out sub-section (2). This sub-section substituted for the procedure laid down in the Agricultural Holdings Act of 1900 an entirely new arrangement which made it compulsory in the event of arbitration under the Agricultural Holdings Act for the reference to be to a single arbitrator. The principal object of the Act of 1900 was to make the procedure under previous Acts more simple and less expensive, and it would be generally admitted by those who had had practical experience that that object had been attained. No doubt the promoters of the present Bill would claim that this sub-section would carry the object further by the substitution of a single arbitrator. How were these arbitrations carried out under present arrangements? The Act of 1900 required that the arbitration, unless the parties otherwise agreed, should 1284 be by a single arbitrator, so that either party concerned could, if he liked, insist on having a single arbitrator. He believed agriculturists very much preferred that that arrangement should continue, and he ventured to think there were very good grounds for holding that view. He was sorry the representative of the Board of Agriculture was not at the moment in the House, because hon. Gentlemen would remember that only a short time ago the hon. Baronet referred to the representative character of the Central Chamber of Agriculture, and said that anything the Chamber expressed should have great weight. When this particular matter came up for discussion at the Central Chamber of Agriculture, a Resolution was carried nem. con. objecting to this sub-section. The present arrangement was considered to be satisfactory, but in the case of a single arbitrator each party must have 1285 a representative or advocate to present his case to the, arbitrator. The landlord probably had his agent who might or might not be a gentleman learned in the law, and it was-absolutely necessary for the outgoing tenant who was the other party to have some expert gentleman to advise him and get up his case. In other words, there would be three experts engaged on the work. Where, however, each party appointed an arbitrator, a third person was only called in as umpire in any matter on which the arbitrators could not agree. The result was that in a great many cases the umpire was never called in, and therefore only two experts had to be paid for instead of three, as would always be the case if the system of a single arbitrator were made compulsory. One of the most experienced valuers in the country had written stating his agreement with the view which he was now putting forward. A preponderating number of farmers' associations in the country had expressed themselves perfectly satisfied with the present arrangement, and against their freedom of action being taken away by its being made compulsory for a single arbitrator to be appointed in each case. He therefore moved the omission of this sub-section.
§ MR. LAURENCE HARDY (Kent, Ashford)seconded the Motion, because he thought this was one of those questions in which it was very desirable the House should see that this Bill was in accordance with the opinion of those interested, and also in accordance with true economy. On neither of those grounds did he think any defence could be made for the retention of this subsection. So far as the opinion of the tenants themselves was concerned, and putting aside the question of the landlords, who, he was afraid, were not often mentioned in debates on this Bill, he would point out that his hon. friend had given a good deal of evidence against this proposal, and they might justly ask the promoters of this Bill to bring forward proof that the tenants were desirous of obtaining this sub-section. So far as he had been able to ascertain an opinion—and it was very much Confirmed by the reports that had 1286 come to the Central Chamber of Agriculture from farmers' clubs—the tenants did not look upon this provision with either enthusiasm or interest, but, in fact, they very much preferred the present system. That being so, they ought to have very strong proof that the system proposed to be substituted was a better one before making the change. As to the question of economy, he had not been able to ascertain any views to show that this proposal would effect economy. First of all the single arbitrator would have to be quite a different type of person to the arbitrators at present appointed. He would have to be appointed more or less officially, and he would become something in the nature of a County Court Judge, a man set apart who would have to be paid either out of rates or taxes. Before him would appear the experts who would represent the landlord and the tenant. There was very little prospect in a country district of one man being mutually appointed by landlord and tenant to decide on these questions. Each party in almost every case liked to have his own view put forward. As a rule mutual compromise came in, and the result was very easy to arrive at without much expense under the present system. The establishments of a sort of court, on the other hand, might lead to further persons being introduced into the proceedings, because instead of his agent being employed the landlord very probably would have a legal gentleman to advise. Instead, therefore, of simplicity and economy it would mean the establishment of a land court and an increase of expenditure.
§
Amendment proposed—
In page 1, line 22, to leave out sub-section (2) of Clause 1."—(Mr. Abel Smith.)
§ Question proposed: "That the words proposed to be left out, to 'contract' in page 1, line 24, stand part of the Bill."
§ MR. SOARESsincerely hoped that the gloomy forebodings of the hon. Gentleman who had just sat down would not be realised. The whole sub-sect on was really a very simple one; it raised on y one small question 1287 and that was the appointment of a single arbitrator in all cases. He might point out that sub-section (5) of Clause 2 of the Act of 1900 provided that an arbitration should, unless the parties otherwise agreed, be before a single arbitrator. All that this subsection did was to omit the words "unless the parties otherwise agree." Already it was conceded that a single arbitrator, whenever possible, was advisable. He might say that the Board of Agriculture was strongly in favour of this subsection, and as that Department had a large knowledge of procedure its opinion was surely worth having on this matter. The system of two arbitrators did not work out well so far as the Board of Agriculture was concerned. When it was a question of two arbitrators the Board had power to make the appointment in default of one of the parties making it. It found that when it made the appointment the man appointed did not act in the capacity of a judicial personage, but more as an advocate, and what was wanted was a judicial personage to act as far as possible. A Scottish case came under the notice of the Board of Agriculture a short time ago in which several points of procedure were raised. One was whether the arbitration should be governed by the Agricultural Holdings Act or by the agreement in the lease, and another point was whether the arbitration should take place before a single arbitrator or two arbitrators. There was great delay in dealing with the matter, and an application was made to the Board, and before the Board could finish the necessary correspondence and make the appointment considerable further delay was occasioned. Then the landlord took proceedings in the Court of Session, and compensation was not obtained until nearly two years after the application was made to the Board. The tenant had to pay £156 for landlord's costs, and upwards of £200 for his own solicitor's costs. That was the kind of thing they wanted to avoid in the future. They wanted to simplify the procedure, and they thought the appointment of an arbitrator would do that, because as the case he had mentioned showed, there was often a difficulty as to whether on the facts of the case there ought to be one arbitrator or two. There could 1288 be no doubt that with two arbitrators the possibility of technical points being raised was increased, and there were-also more risks of mistake in procedure, and in that case the whole arbitration was liable to be vitiated. If there was a single arbitrator his status would be improved. He would become more of a judicial personage, and his sense of responsibility would be increased. Of course it would not prevent an amicable arrangement being made between landlord and tenant as at present. It would be only when they found that they could not come to terms that the case would come before the single arbitrator. With regard to the saving of expense, on which he put a great deal of emphasis, obviously there must be a saving to have one instead of two arbitrators. For the reasons he had given he sincerely hoped the House would retain the sub-section.
§ MR. LAURENCE HARDYWill the hon. Gentleman give us some evidence of the desire on the part of tenants for the sub-section?
§ MR. GARDNER (Berkshire, Wokingham)said the hon. Member in charge of the Bill had called this a very small question, but there might be much mischief in a small thing. The first paragraph in the memorandum to the Bill stated that its object was to extend, cheapen, and simplify the law of compensation, etc. How it could be said to cheapen or simplify the law passed his comprehension. This Bill was full of opportunities for litigation and controversy, and, indeed, invited them, and if anything could add to the cost of the troubles that were certain to arise it was this sub-section. It made compulsory one method of deciding disputes between persons engaged in agriculture. What farmers feared was the amount of costs in dealing with their business. The hon. Member in charge of the Bill had said that landlord and tenant could amicably settle any questions that arose. On the termination of a tenancy they were bound to be represented by someone. The statement by one hon. Member that he was under the impression that the Government proposed to get a higher class of arbitrators was some reflection on the arbitrators and valuers 1289 who at present conducted the business. The arbitrators in his county, and he believed in most other parts, were perfectly competent to settle any disputes. The proposal to have one arbitrator appeared a very simple thing, but it was well known that it would cost tenant farmers and landlords a great deal more and involve more trouble. So far as he could gather the only persons who would get any benefit out of the Bill were lawyers, arbitrators, and expert witnesses. There was quite enough to contend with in agriculture at present, but if they were to have a crowd of that class of persons let loose upon them he did not know what agriculture would come to. They were to have a high class of arbitrator. He should like to know how many guineas a day he was to receive. Possibly he would come from the Board of Agriculture, and what would he know of the customs of the different counties? He would need to have expert evidence before him, and the experts would be likely to charge more than if they were working quietly between landlord and tenant. Customs in the counties differed so widely that an arbitrator coming from a distance would be forced to have local persons to advise him, and these would have to be examined and cross-examined by other expensive persons. The existing state of things had worked practically without any difficulty or friction. They appointed between them an umpire who was seldom called in. He had it on the authority of a large agent that an umpire was called in only in about one case in fifteen.
§ COLONEL HARRISON-BROADLEY (Yorkshire, E.R., Howdenshire)said that as the representative of one of the largest agricultural constituencies, and as one who represented perhaps as many farmers and agriculturists as any man in the House, he thought he ought to be allowed to say a word or two on the question. There was a feeling that the clause had nothing in it except that which would cause ill-feeling and expense, and also the calling in of those who were not interested in the greatest industry of the country. He had had many communications and conversations with agriculturists since the Bill was first brought forward, and 1290 everyone who knew agriculturists and farmers had all been of the opinion that Sub-section (2) of Clause 1 should be left out. They did not know whether the arbitrators were to be men of the county in which the farm was situated, and who would thus become-acquainted with the custom of the county; but at the present time they certainly had no trouble whatever in settling matters between the outgoing and incoming tenants, and he considered it would do the greatest injury if they went outside the county and took in men appointed by the Board of Agriculture to settle the question. He had great pleasure in supporting the Amendment.
§ MR. EVERETT (Suffolk, Woodbridge)said he found himself in agreement with hon. Gentlemen opposite, and he believed his friends in regard to this sub-section had made a mistake. There was not the smallest desire on the part of the farmers for any alteration in the present method of arbitration when farms changed hands. The landlord and the tenant chose representatives who were familiar with the nature of the land and the local customs. They went over the farm, and they generally arrived at a satisfactory settlement. If necessary, they referred to an umpire, but that was a comparatively rare occurrence. The present method of conducting valuations entirely satisfied farmers, and it was as cheap as any mode which might be conceived. The proposed sub-section would bring in the thin end of officialism. They did not want anyone from the Board of Agriculture interfering with their decisions. There was a great deal of good work which Parliament could do, but surely it should not interfere where there was no occasion, and he was sure both the farmers and landlords of the county from which he came wished they would leave them alone as regards their methods of making valuations.
§ MR. MITCHELL-THOMSON (Lanarkshire, N.W.)said he wished to ask a question with regard to the construction of the clause. Some remarks on this point had been made on the first sub-section, but it seemed to him that the construction and drafting of the second subsection was far more serious than the 1291 first. He should like an explanation of what was meant by "this Act." Did the words mean the present Bill? The hon. Member for the Barnstaple Division said it was intended to mean the Agricultural Act, 1900, and that this section was inserted in place of the section which had been repealed. He was under the impression that they were talking about the Agricultural Holdings Acts, 1883 and 1900. He did not know what was meant by the Agricultural Acts, 1883 and 1900, and as a matter of fact there were no such Acts. He understood what was meant by the Agricultural Holdings (England) or (Scotland) Act. He did not think the words "this Act "could be construed as meaning the Act of 1900.
§ MR. SOARESThose words mean this Bill.
§ MR. MITCHELL-THOMSONthought that in that case the House was entitled to some explanation of why in the first sub-section "this Act" meant the Act of 1900 and why in the second sub-section the same words meant the Bill under discussion. Did the hon. Member still adhere to that position?
§ ME. SOARESYes.
§ MR. MITCHELL-THOMSONsaid that was all the more reason why they should oppose this proposal.
§ MR. MUNRO FERGUSONsaid there was nothing in the Bill which would lead them to suppose that the Board of Agriculture would send down an arbitrator who was not conversant with the district. In Scotland they were supposed to be very careful in their expenditure, and he might point out that the system of appointing one valuator in Scotland had grown up very much in consequence of that national desire to save unnecessary cost, and also to obtain better justice.
§ LORD TURNOUR (Sussex, Horsham)said as a tenant farmer perhaps he might be allowed to say a few words on this sub-section. In the first instance he heartily agreed with everything that had fallen from the hon. Member for the Woodbridge division. He thought it a somewhat remarkable thing that Mr. Pretyman, who formerly represented 1292 that division, was a strong opponent of this principle, and that the hon. Gentleman who now represented the division—and who probably looked at the question from a wholly different point of view—was also a strong opponent. It seemed, indeed, to be a strong argument against the sub-section remaining as it was at the present time. It seemed to him that it would merely put upon agriculture a greater burden than that which it had to carry at the present time. He sincerely hoped those in charge of the Bill would note what had been said, and especially to what had fallen from the hon. Member for the Woodbridge Division. No doubt the promoters of the Bill, in drafting the clause, had excellent intentions, but he could only think it would put an even greater burden upon agriculture than that industry carried at the present time, and it seemed to him that the whole clause might have been drawn by an economist of the Poplar guardian type.
§ MR. WALTER LONGsaid they desired to lay down the principle that a single arbitrator should be the preferable course to adopt and that only in the event of a person desiring to have two arbitrators should that procedure be adopted. The proposal in the Bill was that one arbitrator only should be appointed. The hon. Member for Leith Burghs had said that for reasons of economy they preferred in Scotland to have one arbitrator, but it was manifest that in England and Wales they did not prefer that system. Under the Act of 1900 it was laid down that the arbitration was to be before a single arbitrator if the parties agreed on that course. It was only when the landlord and tenant agreed that there should not be a single one that two arbitrators were called in. The farmers of England and Wales did not desire a system which was contrary to their present practice. Nothing had been said to justify interference with the British tenant farmer in carrying on his own business in his own way.
§ MR. BERTRAM (Hertfordshire, Hitchin)thought the clause effected a distinct saving of a step, and, therefore, he should support it. Under existing I law when the tenant vacated his holding 1293 he and the landlord each appointed a valuer. If these failed to agree arbitrators were appointed, and the two valuers almost invariably became the two arbitrators. Agreement being still impossible these two appointed an umpire, and if they could not agree upon him the Board of Agriculture appointed the umpire. Under the clause now proposed the Umpire disappeared, his place being filled by the single arbitrator, and a saving of one step in the existing process of valuation was thereby effected.
§ MR. COURTHOPE (Sussex, Rye)said that when the lion Gentleman in charge of the Bill made his speech in opposition to the Amendment he used an expression the meaning of which he thought he did not quite realise, viz., that a single arbitrator would be a judicial personage. That was so, and it was just because he would be a judicial personage that it would be necessary for Doth parties to have somebody to represent them before him. The result of that would be that there would be three to be paid for instead of, as was usually the case at present, two only, for in the majority of cases under the existing law an agreement was come to, and the expense of an umpire, or third arbitrator, avoided. He thought, therefore, even according to their own arguments, those who supported the Bill should realise that it would be better for this sub-section to be struck out.
§ MR. CAWLEY (Lancashire, Prestwich)was of opinion that the Bill would be improved by the acceptance of the Amendment. The promoters had not attempted to prove that anyone had urgently demanded the alteration, and the present law appeared to be giving satisfaction to everybody. No one could say that the tenants had a grievance and everybody liked the present procedure. Why, therefore, should the House be asked to sanction a new procedure to displace one which had proved so eminently satisfactory? He thought his hon. friend would be wise if he accepted the Amendment.
§ MR. HICKS BEACH (Gloucestershire, Tewkesbury)said that the hon. Member for Barnstaple had argued that the principle of the single arbitrator was accepted in 1900, but he had ignored the stipulation 1294 that it should be departed from if the two parties did not agree to it. The Act of 1900 was very different from this Bill, because what the arbitrator had to decide under that Act was only in regard to improvements to the soil. Under this Bill, however, the arbitrator had to decide as to the value of certain improvements made in the soil itself, whether the game had done harm to the crops, whether the buildings had been so altered and transformed as to be of any real value to the holding, and other matters. The arbitrator would also have to be a person with a judicial mind, because he would have to decide whether a disturbance had been reasonable or unreasonable. He thought the Board of Agriculture would have great difficulty in securing persons of this extraordinary character, and they would have to pay them large fees for their services. He agreed that what the farmers wanted on this occasion was not such proposals as these; but, as a witness had remarked before the Royal Commission on Agriculture in 1897, "the only security they wanted was security from the law makers."
§ MR. COURTENAY WARNER (Staffordshire, Lichfield)thought the Amendment would effect some slight improvement in the working of the Bill. It would be advisable if his hon. friends, the promoters of the Bill, would sacrifice the provision now in question in deference to the wishes of the farmers of the country, who were distinctly opposed to the alteration in the existing law. The question was discussed by the Central Chamber of Agriculture, and it appeared then that the farmers were opposed to any change in the law.
§ MR. SEDDON (Lancashire, Newton)said the hon. Member in charge of the Bill would be well advised if he made the sub-section more stringent. The right hon. baronet the Member for the Lewes Division had said that the tenant farmers in Glamorganshire were satisfied, and did not wish any interference between themselves and the landlords. That might be perfectly true so far as South Glamorgan was concerned, but it was not so with respect to other parts of the country. The right hon. baronet's speech reminded 1295 him of the Chinese coolies who asked to be flogged in order to prove how beneficial were the conditions under which they lived in South Africa. According to the right hon. baronet no improvement was possible, and any effort at improvement would be repudiated so far as South Glamorgan was concerned. He had in his hand an agreement made in Lancashire which proved conclusively, so far as that county was concerned, that the landlords had certainly not only been able to look after themselves, but had taken good care that the tenant should be robbed of his rights. ["No."] He was going by the agreement which laid down the condition that the tenant should live in the farmhouse. ["Read."] A condition of the agreement was that the tenant should live in the farmhouse and keep it in a state of repair. The hon. and gallant Member for the Newport division of Shropshire would have the House to believe that if a tenant put up all manner of buildings, especially for the breeding of race-horses, compensation could be claimed in respect of them whether the incoming tenant wanted them or not. That was not the meaning of the clause. What the clause was intended to secure to the tenant farmer was compensation for unexhausted improvements. There could be no doubt that many of the tenant farmers of this country were subject to the caprice, and sometimes the political bias, of their landlords.
§ MR. GUEST (Cardiff District)asked whether the hon. Gentleman was in order in discussing the whole field of the Bill, or whether he should discuss the sub-section only.
§ MR. SPEAKERThe sub-section only. The hon. Member is rather tending towards a Second Reading speech. He must confine himself to the question of the retention of the particular subsection.
§ MR. SEDDONsaid he thought that the provision as to the single arbitrator should be compulsory. In his own constituency many tenants had been compelled to leave their homes, and they had refused to accept the offices of the arbitrator, knowing that there was a certain amount of sympathy existing between landlords. 1296 He was not surprised at that after hearing the speeches from both sides of the House to-day. He could quite understand that a tenant who, for political reasons, had offended his landlord, and got notice to quit, should prefer to leave his case in the hands of the landlord, because he knew that the power of that landlord might be used against him when he applied for another holding. [" Oh! "] He knew that home truths were resented by the persons affected. He sincerely trusted that the hon. Gentleman in charge of the Bill would recognise that the measure was in the interest of a class too long under the power of landlords.
CAPTAIN BALFOUR (Middlesex, Hornsey)said he should not like it to go out that the Scottish Chamber of Agriculture was absolutely in favour of the Bill. He had before him the Aberdeen Journal of 16th June containing a Report of a meeting of the Chamber of Agriculture held on the previous day. A proposa to approve of the clause in regard to the single arbitrator gave rise to a good dea of discussion, and an Amendment approving of two arbitrators was carried. He had never heard more irrelevant remarks than those which had fallen from the last speaker. In his part of the country tenants and landlords were not mutual enemies.
§ MR. GUESTdid not think the Amendment was of very great importance. So far as he could make out it would leave the law very much where it was at the present time. He thought the sub-section might be accepted as it stood. The House was composed partly, on the one hand, of landlords who did know something of agriculture, and, on the other hand, of people who knew nothing whatever of agriculture. He thought that the prejudice of those who knew something of agriculture was better for the Bill than the ignorance of those who knew nothing. It had never been his lot since he came to this House to hear any Member make such accusations or insinuations as had fallen from the hon. Member for the Newton division. The hon. Member had said that the landlords of the country only desired to rob their tenants. He understood him to say that they 1297 took good care that the tenant should be robbed of his improvements. He repudiated that statement; he thought it was grossly unfair. Where was the cry against the landlords? [An hon. Member: In Wales.] In what part? In South Glamorgan, with which he was acquainted, there was no difficulty between landlords and tenants. As a body, the landlords were as anxious to improve agriculture as the hon. Gentleman. Speaking for himself, what he felt about the Bill was that it did not go far enough.
§ MR. BOTTOMLEY (Hackney, S.)asked whether the hon. Member was in order in not confining himself to the sub-section.
§ MB. GUESTadmitted that he had been drawn into the remarks he had made by the attack of the hon. Gentleman. He could not suppose that the hon. Gentleman intended to attack the whole body of landlords.
§ SIR E. CARSONcalled attention to the very wide terms of the sub-section as it now stood. He asked the promoters of the Bill whether they really intended what the sub-section stated. In all previous legislation the arbitration had been limited to the question of improvements, but this sub-section was perfectly general. There was no limitation whatever. The sub-section said—
All questions which under the Agricultural Holdings Acts, 1883 to 1900, or this Act, or under any custom or contract of tenancy, are to be determined by arbitration shall, notwithstanding any agreement to the contrary, and whether the tenancy commenced before or after passing of this Act, be determined by a single arbitrator in accordance with the provisions set out in Part I. of the Second Schedule to the Agricultural Holdings Act, 1900.Did the promoters of the Bill mean that any question arising under a tenancy was to go to a single arbitrator whether it referred to improvements or not? It seemed to him that thousands of questions might arise which had no relation to improvements at all.
§ SIR W. ROBSONsaid this was not a sub-section to impose on landowners generally the obligation to go to arbitra- 1298 tion; it only enacted that all questions, which under the various Acts or agreements were to be determined, should henceforth be determined by a single arbitrator.
§ SIR E. CARSONsaid that matters outside questions of compensation might be dealt with by the arbitrator.
§ LORD WILLOUGHBY DE ERESBY (Lincolnshire, Horncastle)said the House had now been debating the sub-section for some time, and only two Members had spoken in its favour. The reason why one Member wished it retained in the Bill was that landlords got a great deal more than they ought to get out of their tenants. In order to prove this the hon. Member said he knew of an agreement which a tenant had signed, one of the conditions of which was that he should reside in the farmhouse and keep it in repair. He himself did not think it was such a terrible thing that a landlord should look for a resident tenant, and not one who would live miles away from the farm, or that the tenant should be required to do the ordinary small repairs to the house. He did not quite gather from the hon. Gentleman's speech on what grounds he wished for one arbitrator instead of two. The hon. Member for the Leith Burghs supported the subsection because the Scottish farms wanted it. The fact was, as had been stated, that a Motion was carried at the meeting of the Scottish Chamber of Agriculture to the effect that there should be exceptions where more than one arbitrator could be employed.
§ MR. MUNRO FERGUSONsaid the question of appointing one arbitrator was discussed in relation to two points. There never was any question as to the expediency of having one valuator for improvements under the Agricultural Holdings Acts.
§ LORD WILLOUGHBY DE ERESBYasked why the Scottish tenants, if they wished to have one arbitrator instead of two, did not avail themselves of the Act of 1900. The hon. Member had referred to the case of sheep farm valuations. There could be no more crying shame than the method in which these valuations were carried out at present. The hors Member knew perfectly well that the 1299 moment it came to a question of large sums of money, perhaps £4,000 or £5,000 one way or the other, people would not consent to go before one arbitrator. He most earnestly asked the promoters of the Bill, in view of the expression of opinion from both sides of the House, to withdraw the sub-section, and allow things to remain as they were now in the matter of arbitration.
§ Mr. WINFREY rose in his place, and claimed to move, "That the Question be now put."
§ Question put, "That the Question be now put."
§ The House divided:—Ayes, 312; Noes, 85. Division List No. 170.)
1303AYES. | ||
Abraham, Willam (Cork, N.E) | Coats, Sir T. Glen(Renfrew, W.) | Harmsworth, Cecil B. (Worc'r) |
Abraham, Willam (Rhondda) | Collins Stephen (Lambeth) | Harrington, Timothy |
Acland, Francis Dyke | Condon Thomas Joseph | Hart-Davies, T. |
Adkins, W. Ryland | Cooper, G. J. | Haslam, James (Derbyshire) |
Alden, Percy | Corbett, CH(Sussex, E. Grinst'd | Haworth, Arthur A. |
Allen, A. Acland (Christchurch) | Cornwall, Sir Edwin A. | Hayden, John Patrick |
Allen, Charles P. (Stroud) | Cowan, W. H. | Hazel, Dr. A. E. |
Armstrong, W. C. Heaton | Crean, Eugene | Hazleton, Richard |
Ashton, Thomas Gair | Cremer, William Randal | Hedges, A. Paget |
Astbury, John Meir | Crombie, John William | Henderson, Arthur (Durham) |
Atherley-Jones, L. | Crossley, William J. | Henderson, J. M.(Aberdeen, W.) |
Baker, Sir John (Portsmouth) | Dalziel, James Henry | Henry, Charles S. |
Baker, Joseph A. (Finsbury, E. | Davies, M. Vaughan-(Cardigan) | Herbert, T. Arnold (Wycombe) |
Balfour, Robert (Lanark) | Davies, Timothy (Fulham) | Higham, John Sharp |
Baring, Godfrey (Isle of Wight) | Davies, W. Howell (Bristol, S. | Hobart, Sir Robert |
Barker, John | Delany, William | Hogan, Michael |
Barlow, John Emmott (Som'rst) | Devlin, Charles Ramsay(Galw'y) | Howard, Hon. Geoffrey |
Barlow, Percy (Bedford) | Dewar, Arthur (Edinburgh, S.) | Hutton, Alfred Eddison |
Barnard, E. B. | Dewar, John A. (Inverness-sh. | Jacoby, James Alfred |
Barran, Rowland Hirst | Dickinson, W.H.(St. PancrasN | Jardine, Sir J. |
Barry, E. (Cork, S.) | Dickson-Poynder, Sir John P. | Johnson, John (Gateshead) |
Beale, W. P. | Dillon, John | Jones, David Brynmor(Swansea |
Beauchamp, E. | Dodd, W. H. | Jones, Leif (Appleby) |
Beaumont, W. C. B. (Hexh'm) | Dolan, Charles Joseph | Jones, William (Carnarvonsh.) |
Beck, A. Cecil | Donelan, Captain A. | Jowett, F. W. |
Bellairs, Carlyon | Duffy, William J. | Joyce, Michael |
Benn, W. (T'w'rH'mrts,S. Geo.) | Duncan, C.(Barrow-in-Furness | Kearley, Hudson E. |
Bertram, Julius | Duncan, J. H. (York, Otley) | Kekewich, Sir George |
Bethell, J.H.(Essex, Romford) | Dunn, A. Edward (Camborne) | Kennedy, Vincent Paul |
Bethell, T. R. (Essex, Maldon | Dunne, Major E. Martin(Walsall | Kilbride, Denis |
Billson, Alfred | Edwards, Clement (Denbigh) | Kincaid-Smith, Captain |
Black, Arthur W. (Bedfordshire) | Edwards, Enoch (Hanley) | King, Alfred John Knutsford) |
Blake, Edward | Esmonde, Sir Thomas | Lamb, Edmund G. (Leominster) |
Boland, John | Evans, Samuel T. | Lamb, Ernest H. (Rochester) |
Brace, William | Everett, R. Lacey | Lambert, George |
Branch, James | Farrell, James Patrick | Lamont, Norman |
Bright, J. A. | Fenwick, Charles | Law, Hugh A. (Donegal, W.) |
Brunner, J.F.L. (Lanc8.,Leigh) | Ferens, T. R. | Layland-Barratt, Francis |
Brunner, Sir John T.(Cheshire) | Ferguson, B. C. Munro | Lea, HughCecil (St. Pancras, E.) |
Bryce, Rt. Hn. James(Aberdeen | Ffrench, Peter | Leese, Sir Joseph F(Accrington) |
Bryce, J. A. (Inverness Burghs) | Flavin, Michael Joseph | Lehmann, R. C |
Buckmaster, Stanley O. | Flynn, James Christopher | Lever, A. Levy (Essex, Harwich |
Burke, E. Haviland | Foster, Rt. Hon. Sir Walter | Lever, W. H. (Cheshire, Wirral) |
Burns, Rt. Hon. John | Fowler, Rt. Hon. Sir Henry | Lewis, John Herbert |
Burnyeat, J. D. W. | Fuller, John Michael F. | Lloyd-George, Rt. Hon. David |
Burt, Rt. Hon. Thomas | Fullerton, Hugh | Lundon, W. |
Buxton, Ht. Hn. Sydney Charles | Gibb, James (Harrow) | Luttrell, Hugh Fownes |
Byles, William Pollard | Gill, A. H. | Lyell, Charles Henry |
Cairns, Thomas | Ginnell, L. | Lynch, H. B. |
Cameron, Robert | Gladstone, Rt. Hon. H. John | Macdonald, J. R. (Leicester) |
Carr-Gomm, H. W. | Glendinning, R. G. | Macdonald, J. M. (FalkirkB'ghs) |
Causton, Rt. Hn. RichardKnight | Greenwood, G. (Peterborough) | Mackarness, Frederic C. |
Cawley, Frederick | Greenwood, Hamar (York) | MacVeagh, Jeremiah (Down,) |
Channing, Francis Allston | Griffith, Ellis | MacVeigh, Charles(Donegal, E.) |
Cheetham, John Frederick | Guest, Hon. Ivor Churchill | M'Callum, John M. |
Clarke, C. Goddard | Halpin, J. | M'Crae, George |
Cleland, J. W. | Hammond, John | M'Killop, W. |
Clough, W. | Hardy, George A. (Suffolk) | M'Laren, H. D. (Stafford, W.) |
M'Micking, Major G. | Price, Robert John (Norfolk, E.) | Sullivan, Donal |
Maddison, Frederick | Radford, G. H. | Summerbell, T. |
Mallet, Charles E. | Rainy, A. Rolland | Sutherland, J. E. |
Manfield, Harry (Northante) | Raphael, Herbert H. | Taylor, Austin (East Toxteth) |
Mansfield, H. Rendall(Lincoln) | Rea, Russell (Gloucester) | Taylor, John W. (Durham) |
Marks, G. Croydon (Launceston) | Reddy, M. | Taylor, Theodore C. (Radcliffe) |
Marnham, F. J. | Redmond, John E. (Waterf'rd) | Tennant, Sir Edward (Salisbury |
Massie, J. | Redmond, William (Clare) | Tennant, H. J. (Berwickshire) |
Meagher, Michael | Rees, J. D. | Thomas, Abel (Carmarthen, E.) |
Menzies, Walter | Renton, Major Leslie | Thomas, Sir A.(Glamorgan, E.) |
Micklem, Nathaniel | Rickett, J. Compton | Thomasson, Franklin |
Molteno, Percy Alport | Ridsdale, E. A. | Tomkinson, James |
Mond, A. | Roberts, G. H. (Norwich) | Torrance, A. |
Montagu, E. S. | Robertson Sir G. Stott (Bradf'rd | Ure, Alexander |
Morgan, J. Lloyd(Carmarthen) | Robertson, J. M. (Tyneside) | Verney, F. W. |
Morrell, Philip | Robinson, S. | Walker, H. De R. (Leicester) |
Morton, Alpheue Cleophas | Robson, Sir William Snowdon | Walsh, Stephen |
Murnaghan, George | Roche, John (Galway, East) | Ward, John(Stoke upon Trent |
Murphy, John | Rogers, F. E. Newman | Warner, Thomas Courtenay Ti |
Murray, James | Rose, Charles Day | Wason, Eugene (Clackmannan) |
Myer, Horatio | Rowlands, J. | Wason, John Cathcart (Orkney |
Napier, T. B. | Russell, T. W. | Waterlow, D. S. |
Nicholls, George | Rutherford, V. H. (Brentford) | Watt, H. Anderson |
Nicholson, Charles N.(Doneast'r | Samuel, Herbert L. (Cleveland) | Wedgwood, Josiah C. |
Nolan, Joseph | Samuel, S. M. (Whitechapel) | Weir, Jumes Galloway |
Norman, Henry | Schwann, C. Duncan (Hyde) | Whitbread, Howard |
Norton, Capt. Cecil William | Schwann, Chas. E. (Manchester) | White, J. D. (Dumbartonshire) |
Nussey, Thomas Willans | Scott, A. H.(Ashton under Lyne | White, Luke (York, E.R.) |
O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny) | Sears, J. E. | White, Patrick (Meath, North) |
O'Connor, James(Wicklow, W.) | Seaverns, J. H. | Whitehead, Rowland |
O'Connor, John (Kildare, N.) | Seddon, J. | Whitley, J. H. (Halifax) |
O'Doherty, Philip | Shackleton, David James | Wilkie, Alexander |
O'Donnell, T. (Kerry, W.) | Shaw, Rt. Hon. T. (Hawick B.) | Williams, Llewelyn (Carmarth'n |
O'Grady, J. | Shipman, Dr. John G. | Williams, Osmond (Merioneth) |
O'Hare, Patrick | Silcock, Thomas Ball | Wills, Arthur Walters |
O'Malley, William | Sinclair, Rt. Hon John | Wilson, J. H. (Middlesbrough) |
O'Shaughnessy, P. J. | Sloan, Thomas Henry | Wilson, J. W. (Worcestersh. N. |
Parker, James (Halifax) | Smeaton, Donald Mackenzie | Wilson, P. W. (St. Pancras, S.) |
Partington, Oswald | Smyth, Thomas F. (Leitrim, S.) | Wilson, W. T. (Westhoughton) |
Paul, Herbert | Snowden, P. | Wood, T. M'Kinnon |
Paulton, James Mellor | Soames, Arthur Wellesley | Woodhonse, Sir J.T.(Huddersf'd |
Pearce, Robert (Staffs. Leek) | Stanger, H. Y. | Young, Samuel |
Pease, J. A. (Saffron Walden) | Stanley, Hn. A. Lyulph (Chesh.) | |
Philipps, Col. Ivor (S'thampton) | Steadman, W. C. | TELLERS FOR THE AYES— |
Philipps, J. Wynford (Pembroke | Stewart, Halley (Greenock) | Mr. Soares and Mr. |
Philipps, Owen C. (Pembroke) | Stewart-Smith, D. (Kendal) | Winfrey. |
Power, Patrick Joseph | Strachey, Sir Edward | |
Price, C. E. (Edinb'gh, Central) | Straus, B. S. (Mile End) | |
NOES. | ||
Acland-Hood, Rt Hn Sir Alex F. | Craig, Captain James (Down, E.) | Houston, Robert Paterson |
Anson, Sir William Reynell | Craik, Sir Henry | Kennaway, Rt. Hon. Sir John H. |
Anstruther-Gray, Major | Cross, Alexander | Keayon-Sloney, Rt. Hon. Col. W |
Aubrey-Fletcher, Rt. Hon. Sir H. | Dalrymple, Viscount | Keswick, William |
Balcarres, Lord | Dixon-Hartland, Sir FredDixon | Lambton, Hon. Frederick Wm. |
Balfour, Rt Hn. A.J. (City Lond) | Duncan, Robert(Lanark, Govan | Lane-Fox, G. R. |
Balfour, Capt. C. B. (Hornsey) | Faber, George Denison (York) | Liddell, Henry |
Banbury, Sir Fred rickGeorge | Fell, Arthur | Lockwood, Rt. Hn. Lt. Col. A.R. |
Baring, Hon. Guy (Winchester | Finch, Rt. Hon. George H. | Long, Rt. Hn. Walter (Dublin, S) |
Beach, Hn. Michael HughHicks | Fletcher, J. S. | Lonsdale, John Brownlee |
Beckett, Hon. Gervase | Forster, Heary William | Lowe, Sir Francis William |
Bignold, Sir Arthur | Gardner, Ernest (Berks, East) | M'Calmont, Colonel James |
Bridgeman, W. Clive | Gibbs, G. A. (Bristol, West) | Marks, H. H. (Kent) |
Campbell, Rt. Hon. J. H. M. | Harrison-Broadley, Col. H. B. | Mason, James F. (Windsor) |
Carson, Rt. Hon. Sir Edw. H. | Hay, Hon. Claude George | Meysey-Thompson, E. C. |
Castlereagh, Viscount | Helmsley, Viscount | Nicholson, Wm. G.(Petersfield) |
Cave, George | Hervey, F.W.F. (Bury S. Edm'ds | Nield, Herbert |
Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor) | Hill, Sir Clement (Shrewsbury) | O'Neill, Hon. Robert Torrens |
Cecil, Lord John P. Joicey | Hill, Henry Staveley (Staff'sh.) | Pease, HerbertPike(Darlington |
Cecil, Lord R. (Marylebone, E.) | Hills, J. W. | Percy, Earl |
Cochrane, Hon. Thos. H. A. E. | Hobhouse, Charles E. H. | Remnant, James Farquharson |
Courthope, G. Lloyd | Hornby, Sir William Henry | Ropner, Colonel Sir Robert |
Sassoon, Sir Edward Albert | Valentia, Viscount | Worsley, Rt. Hon. C. B. Stuart- |
Scott, Sir S. (Marylebone, W.) | Walker, Col. W. H. (Lancashire | Wyndham, Rt. Hon. George |
Smith, F.E.(Liverpool, Walton) | Walrond, Hon. Lionel | Younger, George |
Starkey, John R. | Warde, Col. C. E. (Kent, Mid) | |
Stone, Sir Benjamin | Williams, Col. R. (Dorset, W.) | TELLERS FOR THE NOES— |
Talbot, Rt. Hn. J.G.(Oxf'dUniv. | Willoughby de Eresby, Lord | Mr. Laurence Hardy and |
Thomson. W. Mitchell-(Lanark | Wilson, A. Stanley (York, E.R. | Mr. Abel Smith. |
Turnour. Viscount | Wolff, Gustav Wilhelm |
§ Question put accordingly "That the words proposed to be left out, to the word
§ The House divided:—Ayes, 292; Noes, 112. (Division List No. 171.)
AYES. | ||
Abraham, William (Cork, N.E. | Cooper, G. J. | Hazelton, Richard |
Abraham, William (Rhondda) | Corbett, CH(Sussex, E. Grinst'd | Henderson, Arthur (Durham) |
Acland, Francis Dyke | Cornwall, Sir Edwin A. | Henderson, J. M.(Aberdeen, W.) |
Adkins, W. Ryland | Cowan, W. H. | Henry, Charles S. |
Alden, Percy | Crean, Eugene | Higham, John Sharp |
Allen, A. Acland (Christchurch) | Cremer, William Randal | Hobart, Sir Robert |
Allen, Charles P. (Stroud) | Crombie, John William | Hogan, Michael |
Ashton, Thomas Gair | Crossley, William J. | Howard, Hon. Geoffrey |
Astbury, John Meir | Dalziel, James Henry | Hutton, Alfred Eddison |
Atherley-Jones, L. | Davies, Timothy (Fulham) | Jaceby, James Alfred |
Baker, Sir John (Portsmouth) | Davies, W. Howell (Bristol, S. | Jardine, Sir J. |
Baker, Joseph A. (Finsbury, E.) | Delany, William | Johnson, John (Gateshead) |
Balfour, Robert (Lanark) | Devlin, Charles Ramsay(Galw'y) | Jones, David Brynmor(Swansea |
Baring, Godfrey (Isle of Wight) | Dewar, Arthur (Edinburgh. S.) | Jones, William (Carnarvonshire |
Barker, John. | Dewar, John A. (Inverness-sh. | Jowett, F. W. |
Barlow, John Emmott (Somers't) | Dickinson, W.H.(St. Pancas, N. | Joyce, Michael |
Barlow, Percy (Bedford) | Dillon, John | Kearley, Hudson, E. |
Barnard, E. B. | Dodd, John | Kekewich, Sir George |
Barran, Rowland Hirst | Dolan, Charles Joseph | Kennedy, Vincent Paul |
Barry, E. (Cork, S.) | Donelan, Captain A. | Kilbride, Denis |
Beale, W. P. | Duffy, William J. | Kincaid-Smith, Captain |
Beauchamp, E. | Duncan, C.(Barrow-in-Furness | King, Alfred John (Knutsford |
Bellairs, Carlyon | Duncan, J.H. (York, Otley) | Kitson, Sir James |
Benn, W.(T'w'r H'mlets, S. Geo. | Dunne, Major E. Martin(Walsall) | Lamb, Edmund G.(Leominst'r |
Bertram, Julius | Edwards, Clement (Denbigh) | Lamb, Ernest H. (Rochester) |
Bethell, J. H. (Essex, Romford | Edwards, Enoch (Hanley) | Lambert, George |
Bethell, T. R. (Essex, Haldon) | Esmonde, Sir Thomas | Lamont, Norman |
Billson, Alfred | Evans, Samuel T. | Law, Hugh A. (Donegal, W.) |
Black, Arthur W.(Bedfordshire | Farrell, James Patrick | Layland-Barratt, Francis |
Blake, Edward | Fenwick, Charles | Lea, Hugh Cecil (St. Pancras, E.) |
Boland, John | Ferens, T. R. | Leese, Sir Joseph F.(Accrington |
Brace, William | Ferguson, R. C. Munro | Lehmann, R. C. |
Branch, James | Ffrench, Peter | Lever, A. Levy(Essex, Harwich |
Bright, J. A. | Flavin, Michael Joseph | Lever, W. H. (Cheshire, Wirral), |
Brunner, J.F.L. (Lancs., Leigh) | Flynn, James Christopher | Lewis, John Herbert |
Brunner, Sir John T. (Cheshire) | Foster, Rt. Hon. Sir Walter | Lloyd-George, Rt. Hon. David |
Bryce. Rt. Hn. James (Aberdeen | Fowler, Rt. Hon. Sir Henry | Lundon, W. |
Bryce, J.A.(Inverness Burghs) | Fullerton, Hugh | Luttrell, Hugh Fownes |
Buchanan, Thomas, Ryburn | Gibb, James (Harrow) | Lynch, H. B. |
Buckmaster, Stanl y O. | Gill, A. H. | Macdonald, J. R. (Leicester) |
Burke, E. Haviland- | Ginnell, L. | Macdonald, J. M. (FalkirkB'ghs |
Burns, Rt. Hon. John | Glendinning, R. G. | Mackarness, Frederick C. |
Burnyeat, J. D. W. | Greenwood, G. (Peterborough) | MacVeagh, Jeremiah (Down,. S. |
Burt, Rt. Hon. Thomas | Greenwood, Hamar (York) | MacVeigh, Chas. (Donegal, E.) |
Buxton, Rt. Hn. Sydney Charles | Griffith, Ellis J. | M'Callum, John M. |
Byles, William Pollard | Halpin, J. | M'Crae, George |
Cairns, Thomas | Hammond, John | M'Killop, W. |
Cameron, Robert | Hardy, George A. (Suffolk) | M'Laren, H. D. (Stafford, W.) |
CarrGomm, H. W. | Harmsworth, Cecil B. (Worc'r | M'Micking, Major G. |
Causton, Rt. Hn. RichardKnig't | Harrington, Timothy | Maddison, Frederick |
Channing, Francis Allston | Hart-Davies, T. | Mallet, Charles E. |
Clarke, C. Goddard | Harwood, George | Manfield, Harry (Northants) |
Cleland, J. W. | Haslam, James (Derbyshire) | Mansfield, H. Rendall (Lincoln |
Clough, W. | Haslam, Lewis (Monmouth | Marks, G. Croydon(Launceston |
Coats, Sir T. Glen(Renfrew, W.) | Haworth, Arthur A. | Marnham, F. J. |
Collins, Stephen (Lambeth) | Hayden, John Patrick. | Massie, J. |
Condon, Thomas Joseph | Hazel, Dr. A. E. | Meagher, Michael |
Menzies, Walter | Rea, Russell (Gloucester! | Summerbell, T. |
Micklem, Nathaniel | Reddy, M. | Sutherland, J. E. |
Molteno, Percy Alport | Redmond, John E. (Waterford | Taylor, John W. (Durham) |
Mond, A. | Redmond, William (Clare) | Taylor, Theodore C. (Radcliffe |
Montagu, E. S. | Rees, J. D. | Tennant, Sir Edward(Salisbury |
Mooney, J. J. | Rickett, J. Compton | Tennant, H. J. (Berwickshire) |
Morgan, J. Lloyd(Carmarthen) | Ridsdale, E. A. | Thomas, Abel(Carmarthen, E.) |
Morrell, Philip | Roberts, G. H. (Norwich) | Thomas, Sir A. (Glamorgan, E. |
Morton, Alpheus cleophas | Robertson, Sir G. Scott(Bradf'rd | Thomasson, Franklin |
Murnaghan, George | Robertson, J. M. (Tyneside) | Tomkinson, James |
Murphy, John | Robinson, S. | Torrance, A. M. |
Murray, James | Roche, John (Galway, East) | Ure, Alexander |
Myer, Horatio | Rogers, F. E. Newman | Verney, F. W. |
Napier, T. B. | Rose, Charles Day | Walker, H. De Rr. (Leicester) |
Nicholls, George | Rowlands, J. | Walsh, Stephen |
Nicholson, Chas N. (Doncaster | Russell, T. W. | Warde, John (Stoke uponTrent |
Nolan, Joseph | Rutherford, V. H. (Brentford) | Wason, Eugene (Clackmannan) |
Norman, Henry | Samuel, Herbert L. (Cleveland) | Wason, John Cathcart-Orkney) |
Norton, Capt. Cecil William | Samuel, S. M. (Whitechapel) | Waterlow, D. S. |
Nuttall, Harry | Scarisbrick, T. T. L. | Watt, H. Anderson |
O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny) | Schwann, C. Duncan (Hyde) | Wedgwood, Josiah C. |
O'Brien, William (Cork) | Schwann, Chas. E. (Manchester) | Weir, James Galloway |
O'Connor, James(Wicklow, W- | Scott, A.H. (Ashton und' Lyne | White, J. D. (Dumbartonshire) |
O'Connor, John (Kildare, N.) | Sears, J. E. | White, Luke (York, E.R.) |
O'Doherty, Philip | Seaverns, J. H. | White, Patrick (Meath, North |
O'Donnell. T. (Kerry, W.) | Seddon, J. | Whitley, J. H. (Halifax) |
O'Grady, J. | Shackleton, David James B. | Wiles, Thomas |
O'Hare, Patrick | Shaw, Rt. Hon. T. (Hawick) | Wilkie, Alexander |
O'Malley, William | Shipman, Dr. John G. | Williams, Liewellyn(Carmathen. |
O'Shauglinessy, P. J. | Silcock, Thomas Ball | Williams, Osmond (Merioneth) |
Parker, James (Halifax) | Sinclair, Rt. Hon. John | Wilson, J. H. (Middlesbrough) |
Paul, Herbert | Sloan, Thomas Henry | Wilson, J. W. (Worcestersh. N.) |
Pearce, Robert (Staffs. Leek) | Smeaton, Donald Mackenzie | Wilson, P. W. (St. Pancras, S.) |
Pease, J. A. (Saffron Walden) | Smyth, Thos. F. (Leitrim, S.) | Wilson, W. T. (Westhoughton) |
Philipps, Col. Ivor(S'thampton; | Soames, Arthur Wellesley | Wood, T. M'Kinnon |
Philipps, J. Wynford(Pembr'ke | Stanger' H. Y. | Woodhouse, Sir JT. (Huddersf'd. |
Philipps, Owen C. (Pembroke) | Stanley, Hn. A. Lyulph (Chesh. | Young, Samuel |
Power, Patrick Joseph | Steadman, W. C. | |
Price, C. E. (Edinb'gh, Central) | Stewart, Halley (Greenock) | TELLERS FOR THE AYES—Mr. |
Price, Robert John (Norfolk. E, | Stewart-Smith, D. (Kendal) | Soares and Mr. Winfrey. |
Radford, G. H. | Straus, B. S. (Mile End) | |
Rainy, A. Rolland | Sullivan, Donal | |
NOES. | ||
Anson, Sir William Reynell | Cross, Alexander | Houston, Robert Paterson |
Anstruther-Gray, Major | Dalrymple, Viscount | Kennaway, Rt. Hn. Sir John H. |
Armstrong, W. C. Heaton | Davies, M. Vaughan-(Cardigan) | Kenyon-Slaney, Rt. Hon. Col. W. |
Aubrey-Fletcher, Rt. Hn. Sir H. | Dixon-Hartland, Sir Fred Dixon. | Keswick, William |
Balcarres, Lord | Duncan, Robert (LanarkGovan | Lambton, Hon. Frederick Wm. |
Balfour, Rt. Hn. A.J.(CityLond.) | Dunn, A. Edward (Camborne) | Lane-Fox, G. R. |
Balfour, Capt. C. B. (Hornsey) | Erskine, David C. | Liddell, Henry |
Banbury, Sir Frederick George | Everett, R. Lacey | Lockwood, Rt. Hn. Lt.-Col. A.R. |
Baring, Hon. Guy (Winchester) | Faber, George Denison (York) | Long, Col. Chas. W. (Evesham) |
Beach, Hn. Michael Hugh Hicks | Fell, Arthur | Long, Rt. Hn. Walter(Dublin, S.) |
Beaumont, W. C. B. (Hexham) | Finch, Rt. Hon. George H. | Lonsdale, John Brownlee |
Beck, A. Cecil | Fletcher, J. S. | Lowe, Sir Francis William |
Beckett, Hon. Gervase | Forster, Henry William | Lyell, Charles Henry |
Bignold, Sir Arthur | Fuller, John Michael F. | Lyttelton, Rt. Hon. Alfred |
Bridgeman, W. Clive | Gardner, Ernest (Berks, East) | M'Calmont, Colonel James |
Campbell, Rt. Hon. J. H. M. | Gibbs, G. A. (Bristol, West) | Marks, H. H. (Kent) |
Carson, Rt. Hon. Sir Edw. H. | Hardy, Laurence(Kent, Ashford | Mason, James F. (Windsor) |
Castlereagh, Viscount | Harrison-Broadley, Col. H. B. | Meysey-Thompson, E. C. |
Cave, George | Hay, Hon. Claude George | Nicholson, Win. G.(Petersfield) |
Cawley, Frederick | Hedges, A. Paget | Nield, Herbert |
Cecil Evelyn (Aston Manor) | Helmsely, Viscount | Nussey, Thomas Willans |
Cecil, Lord John P. Joicey- | Herbert, T. Arnold (Wycombe) | O'Neill, Hon. Robert Torrens |
Cecil, Lord R. (Marylebone, E.) | Hervey, F. W. F. (Bury S. Edm'ds | Partington, Oswald |
Cheetham, John Frederick | Hill, Sir Clement (Shrewsbury) | Pease, Herbert Pike(Darlington) |
Cochrane, Thos. H. A. E. | Kill, Henry Staveley(Staff'sh.) | Percy, Earl |
Courthope, G. Loyd | Hills, J. W. | Raphael, Herbert |
Craig, Capt. James (Down, E.) | Hobhouse, Charles E. H. | Remnant, James Farquharson |
Craik, Sir Henry | Hornby, Sir William Henry | Renton, Major Leslie |
Ropner, Colonel Sir Robert | Thomson, W. Mitchell- (Lanark | Wills, Arthur Walters |
Rothschild, Hon. Lionel Walter | Thornton, Percy M. | Wilson, A. Stanley (York, E.R.) |
Sassoon, Sir Edward Albert | Tumour, Viscount | Wolf, Gustav Wilhelm |
Scott, Sir S. (Marylebone, W.) | Walker, Col. W. H. (Lancashire | Wortley, Rt. Hon. C. B. Stuart- |
Smith, Abel H.(Hertford, East) | Walrond, Hon. Lionel | Wyndham, Rt. Hon. George |
Smith, F.E. (Liverpool, Walton) | Warde, Col, C. E. (Kent, Mid) | Younger, George |
Snowden, P. | Warner, Thomas Courtenay T. | |
Starkey, John R. | Whitbread, Howard | TELLERS FOR THE NOES—Sir |
Stone, Sir Benjamin | Whitehead, Rowland | Alexander Acland-Hood and |
Talbot, Rt. Hn. J. G. (Oxf'd Univ. | Williams, Col. R. (Dorset, W.) | Viscount Valentia. |
Taylor, Austin (East Toxteth) | Willoughby de Eresby, Lord |
§ 'contract,' in page 1, line 24, stand part of the Bill."
1307§ MR. COCHRANEmoved to insert "under any "after" or "in Clause 1, subsection (2), line 4. The Amendment was of very considerable interest in Scotland. It was quite obvious that there were many large tenants who were capable of making any arrangements on a perfectly fair and equal basis with their landlords. All sorts of complicated questions arose under the leases in Scotland. There were often different classes of arbitration such as the valuation of sheep stock, the various forms of cropping, etc. Of course the ordinary way when a valuation was to be made was for each party to appoint an arbitrator, and if they could not agree an oversman was appointed on application to the Sheriff. Under this subsection as it stood, all the friendly arrangements which had been made between landlord and tenant in Scotland, which had hitherto worked remarkably well, would be knocked on the head. If only a single arbitrator was appointed, a man who knew nothing of the particular forms of agriculture in the east country might be sent from a dairy country, and in like manner a man might be sent from a dairy country to a potato district, or from a potato district to a cattle-feeding district, to deal with valuations. He contended that the best way was to leave landlord and tenant to arrange as to the mode of arbitration. The hon. Gentleman had referred to a meeting of the Scottish Agricultural Society. He knew something of that body, and at that meeting one of the largest farmers in the country, Mr. Hope of Barney Hill, moved an Amendment against a single arbitrator, stating that he did not believe that the farmers of Scotland would be ready to tie themselves down to the clause as it stood. That Resolution was carried by twenty-one to eighteen. He would remind the House that arbitration was only Substituting one court for another; and 1308 why should these responsible duties be placed in the hands of a man who had no particular training for the work? The sub-section interfered with the custom which had subsisted in Scotland for many years, and the object of his Amendment was to save existing tenancies from the operation of the sub-section where arrangements of a contrary nature had been made.
§
Amendment proposed—
In page 1, line 24, after the word 'or' to insert the words under any.'"—(Mr. Cochrane.)
§ Question proposed, "That these words be there inserted."
§ MR. SOARESsaid that the promoters of the Bill were unable to accept the Amendment. He believed that the principle of a single arbitrator would be good both for the tenant and for the landlord, and he utterly failed to see why existing tenants should not have the benefits which were expected to arise under this provision as well as tenants in the future.
§ COLONEL KENYON-SLANEYsaid that those who supported the Amendment desired to maintain existing contracts entirely without a break, and that was, he believed, what 99 per cent, of the tenants desired should be done. [" No, no."] Hon. Gentlemen said "No, no," but he confidently appealed to the two tenant farmers who had spoken to corroborate what he had said. He did not think that there were more than two tenant farmers in the House, but at all events the two who had spoken had expressed themselves strongly in favour of the position he was now taking up. The Chambers of Commerce were all against the proposed change, and if the opinion of the great majority of tenant farmers was taken on the subject he was sure that they would adopt the attitude which the Opposition were taking up. 1309 He personally did not think that this was a question between landlord and tenant. He did not regard it as a landlord question at all. As a landlord himself, he did not regard this measure as of much importance, but he did not think that the tenants were likely to get the results from it which were predicted. After all, the contracts between landlords and tenants had been entered into by reasonable men, with full knowledge on each side of the consequences of their action, and in his opinion nobody could say that in the midland counties, at any rate, the tenants were not able to make these arrangements with the full knowledge of what they meant. He thought, therefore, that the tenants would prefer the arrangements which they themselves had come to, at all events while those arrangements continued in force. In his opinion the measure was not wanted; and it would create a feeling of insecurity on the part of both tenants and landlords.
§ MR. SHACKLETON (Lancashire, Glitheroe)was glad to hear that this was not only not a landlord's Bill, but that the hon. Member did think that the tenant farmers had an interest in it. When, however, he considered the debate which had taken place, and the amount of time which had been spent upon the consideration of the Bill in the Committee upstairs, he thought the tenants would appreciate the splendid efforts of their friends in preventing the Bill from becoming law. The Labour Party were sometimes told previous to the last general election that there was a danger that if they were returned they would represent a class interest. The House had had a striking illustration to-day that class interest was not confined to those who represented the Labour Party, but that the landlords were present to represent their own interests and their own class.
§ MR. SPEAKERThe subject which the hon. Member is now raising will no doubt lead to many speeches in opposition to his views, and it will be very difficult to stop those speeches, and to keep the debate within the lines of the Bill.
§ MR. SHACKLETONsaid he would not pursue the matter further, but he would 1310 point out that the Bill was discussed in a very exhaustive manner upstairs, and that it seemed to him that it was a waste of time to raise the same points again and again for the purpose of preventing the Bill from becoming law.
§ MR. LAMBTONsaid the hon. Member who had spoken last seemed to forget that there were 670 Members of the House of Commons who were entitled to discuss this matter. Personally he was not a member of the Committee to which the hon. Member had referred, and he was not acquainted with their decisions, and, the matter coming before the House on Report, he did not think they ought to attach too much importance to what had taken place upstairs. The hon. Member had talked about class interest, and of hon. Members representing one class only. It was precisely there that he had made a great mistake in reference to this particular Bill, and he did not think such references were calculated to facilitate the progress of the measure. He had been a landlord for nearly a quart of a century, and in supporting this Amendment he thought he was supporting the interests of the tenants as well as of the landlords. The hon. Member seemed to have forgotten that during the last twenty-five years there had been great depression in agriculture, and that the landlord now had to accept the tenants' terms instead of the tenant having to accept the landlord's terms. Therefore it was useless in these days for anybody to get up and say that a tenant had entered into any agreement contrary to his wishes.
§ MR. WALTER LONGwished to say a few words in reply to what had been said in regard to the attitude taken by himself and his friends. It was said that they were acting contrary to the interests of the tenant farmers; they were content to leave the tenant farmers to judge of their actions. They did not feel it necessary to take exception to the remarks which had been made except to point out that it was an illustration of the class of opposition to which they were exposed. They on that side were acting in the interests of ninety-nine out of a hundred of occupying tenants and also in the interests of the landlords.
§ Question put.
1312§ The House divided:—Ayes 93: Noes 301. (Division List No. 172)
1313AYES. | ||
Acland-Hood. Rt. Hn. Sir Alex. F | Fuller, John Michael F. | Pease, Herbert Pike(Darlington |
Anson, Sir William Reynell | Gardner, Ernest (Berks East,) | Percy, Earl |
Anstruther-Gray, Major | Gibbs, G. A. (Bristol, West) | Remnant, James Farquharson |
Aubrey-Fletcher, Rt. Hn. Sir H. | Hardy, Laurence(Kent. Ashford | Renton, Major Leslie |
Balcarres, Lord | Harrison-Broadley, Col. H. B. | Ridsdale, E. A. |
Balfour, Rt. Hn. A.J.(CityLond.) | Hay, Hon. Claude George | Ropner, Colonel Sir Robert |
Balfour, Capt. C. B. (Hornsey) | Hedges, A. Paget | Rothschild, Hon. Lionel Walter |
Banbury, Sir Frederick George | Helmsley, Viscount | Sassoon, Sir Edward Albert |
Barlow, Percy (Bedford) | Hervey, F.W.F.(Bury S. Edm'ds | Scott, Sir S. (Marylebone, W.) |
Beach, Hn. Michael Hugh Hicks | Hill, Sir Clement(Shrewsbury) | Smith, Abel H.(Hertford, East) |
Beale, W, P. | Hills, J. W. | Starkey, John R. |
Beckett, Hon. Gervase | Hobhouse, Charles E. H. | Stone, Sir Benjamin |
Bignold, Sir Arthur | Hornby, Sir William Henry | Talbot, Rt. Hn. J. G. (Oxf'dUniv |
Bridgeman, W. Clive | Houston, Sir Robert Paterson | Tennant, Sir Edw. (Salisbury) |
Burnyeat, J. D. W. | Kennaway, Rt. Hon. Sir John H. | Thomson, W. Mitchell-(Lanark |
Campbell, Rt. Hon. J. H. M. | Kenyon-Slaney, Rt. Hon. Col. W. | Thornton, Percy M. |
Carson, Rt. Hon. Sir Edw. H. | Keswick, William | Turnour, Viscount |
Castlereagh, Viscount | Kincaid-Smith Captain | Walker, Col. W.H.(Lancashire) |
Cave, George | Lambton, Hon. Frederick Wm. | Walrond, Hon. Lionel |
Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor) | Lane-Fox, G. R. | Warde, Col. C E. (Kent, Mid) |
Cecil, Lord John P. Joicey- | Liddell, Henry | Williams, Col. R. (Dorset, W. |
Cecil, Lord R. (Marylebone, E.) | Lockwood, Rt. Hn. Lt.-Col. A.R. | Willoughby de Eresby, Lord |
Cheetham, John Frederick | Long, Col. Chas. W. (Evesham) | Wills, Arthur Walters |
Cochrane, Hon. Thos. H. A. E. | Long, Rt. Hn. Walter(Dublin, S.) | Wilson, A. Stanley (York, E.R. |
Courthope, G. Loyd | Lonsdale, John Brownlee | Wolff, Gustav Wilhelm |
Craig, Capt. James (Down, E.) | Lowe, Sir Francis William | Wortley, Rt. Hon. C. B. Stuart |
Craik, Sir Henry | Lyttelton, Rt. Hon. Alfred | Wyndham, Rt. Hon. George |
Dalrymple, Viscount | M'Calmont, Colonel James | Younger, George |
Dixon-Hartland, Sir Fred Dixon | Marks, H. H. (Kent) | |
Faber, George Denison (York) | Mason, James F. (Windsor) | TELLERS FOR THE AYES— |
Fell, Arthur | Meysey-Thompson, E. C. | Viscount Valentia and Mr. |
Finch, Rt. Hon. George H. | Nicholson, Win. G. (Petersfield | Forster. |
Fletcher, J. S. | Nield, Herbert | |
NOES. | ||
Abraham, William (Cork, N.E.) | Bright, J. A. | Delany, William |
Abraham, William (Rhondda) | Brunner, J.F.L.(Lancs., Leigh) | Devlin, Chas. Ramsay (Galway |
Acland, Francis Dyke | Brunner, Sir John T. (Cheshire) | Dewar, Arthur (Edinburgh,S.) |
Adkins, W. Ryland | Bryce, J.A.(Inverness Burghs) | Dickinson, W.H.(St. Pancras. N |
Alden, Percy | Buchanan, Thomas Ryburn | Dickson-Poynder, Sir John P. |
Allen, A. Acland (Christchurch) | Buckmaster, Stanley O. | Dodd, W. H. |
Allen, Charles P. (Stroud) | Burke, E. Haviland- | Dolan, Charles Joseph |
Ashton, Thomas Gair | Burns, Rt. Hon. John | Donelan, Captain A. |
Asquith, Rt. Hn. Herbert Henry | Burt, Rt. Hon. Thomas | Duffy, William J. |
Astbury, John Meir | Buxton, Rt. Hn. Sydney Charles | Duncan, C. (Barrow-in-Furness |
Atherley-Jones, L. | Byles, William Pollard | Duncan, J. H. (York, Otley) |
Baker, Sir John (Portsmouth) | Cairns, Thomas | Dunn, A. Edward (Camborne) |
Baker, Joseph A. (Finsbury, E.) | Cameron, Robert | Dunne, Major Martin (Walsall) |
Balfour, Robert (Lanark) | Carr-Gomm, H. W. | Edwards, Clement (Denbigh) |
Baring, Godfrey (Isle of Wight) | Causton, Rt. Hn. Richard Knight | Edwards, Enoch (Hanley) |
Barker, John | Channing, Francis Allston | Erskine, David C. |
Barlow, John Emmott(Somerset | Clarke, C. Goddard | Esmonde, Sir Thomas |
Barnard, E. B. | Cleland, J. W. | Evans, Samuel T. |
Barran, Rowland Hirst | Clough, W. | Everett, R. Lacey |
Barry, E. (Cork, S.) | Coats, Sir T. Glen (Renfrew, W.) | Farrell, James Patrick |
Beauchamp, E. | Collins, Stephen (Lambeth) | Ferens, T. R. |
Beck, A. Cecil | Condon, Thomas Joseph | Ferguson, R. C. Munro |
Bellairs, Carlyon | Cooper, G. J. | Ffrench, Peter |
Benn, W. (T'w'rHamlets, S.Geo. | Corbett,C. H(Sussex,E. Grinst'd | Flavin, Michael Joseph |
Bennett, E. N. | Cornwall, Sir Edwin A. | Flynn, James Christopher |
Bethell, J. H. (Essex, Romford | Cowan, W. H. | Foster, Rt. Hon. Sir Walter |
Bethell, T. R. (Essex, Maldon) | Crean, Eugene | Fullerton, Hugh |
Billson, Alfred | Cremer, William Randal | Gibb, James (Harrow) |
Black, Arthur W.(Bedfordshire | Crombie, John William | Gill, A. H. |
Blake, Edward | Crossley, William J. | Ginnell, L. |
Boland, John | Dalziell, James Henry | Glendinning, R. G. |
Brace, William | Davies, M. Vaughan-(Cardigan | Greenwood, G. (Peterborough) |
Branch, James | Davies, Timothy (Fulham) | Greenwood, Hamar (York) |
Griffith, Ellis J. | M'Laren, H. D. (Stafford, W.) | Samuel, S. M. (Whitechapel) |
Gulland, John W. | M'Micking, Major G. | Scarisbrick, T. T. L. |
Halpin, J. | Maddison, Frederick | Schwann, C. Duncan (Hyde) |
Hammond, John | Mallet, Charles E. | Schwann, Chas. E. (Manchester |
Hardy, George A. (Suffolk) | Manfield, Harry (Northants) | Scott, A. H.(Ashton-und.-Lyne |
Harmsworth, Cecil B. (Worc'r) | Mansfield, H. Rendall (Lincoln | Sears, J. E. |
Harrington, Timothy | Marks, H. Croydon(Launceston | Seaverns, J. H. |
Hart-Davies, T. | Marnham, F. J. | Seddon, J. |
Harwood, George | Massie, J. | Shackleton, David James |
Haslam, James (Derbyshire) | Meagher, Michael | Shaw, Rt. Hon. T. (Hawick B. |
Haslam, Lewis (Monmouth) | Menzies, Walter | Shipman, Dr. John G. |
Haworth, Arthur A. | Micklem, Nathaniel | Silcock, Thomas Ball |
Hayden, John Patrick | Molteno, Percy Alport | Sinclair, Rt. Hon. John |
Hazel, Dr. A. E. | Mond, A. | Sloan, Thomas Henry |
Hazleton, Richard | Montagu, E. S. | Smeaton, Donald Mackenzie |
Healey, Timothy Michael | Montgomery, H. H. | Smyth, Thomas F. (Leitrim, S. |
Henderson, Arthur (Durham) | Mooney, J. J. | Snowden, P. |
Henderson, J.M.(Aberdeen, W.) | Morgan, J. Lloyd (Carmarthen) | Soames, Arthur Wellesley |
Henry, Charles S. | Morrell, Philip | Stanger, H. Y. |
Herbert, T. Arnold (Wycombe) | Morton, Alpheus Cleophas | Stanley, Hn. A. Lyulph (Chesh.) |
Higham, John Sharp | Murnaghan, George | Steadman, W. C. |
Hobart, Sir Robert | Murphy, John | Stewart, Halley (Greenock) |
Hogan, Michael | Murray, James | Stewart-Smith, D. (Kendal) |
Holden, E. Hopkinson | Myer, Horatio | Strachey, Sir Edward |
Hooper, A. G. | Napier, T. B. | Straus, B. S. (Mile End) |
Howard, Hon. Geoffrey | Nicholls, George | Sullivan, Donal |
Hutton, Alfred Eddison | Nicholson, Chas. N. (Doncast'r) | Summerbell, T. |
Hyde, Clarendon | Nolan, Joseph | Sutherland, J. E. |
Jackson, R. S. | Norton, Capt. Cecil William | Taylor, John W. (Durham) |
Jacoby, James Alfred | Nussey, Thomas Willans | Taylor, Theodore C.(Radcliffe; |
Jardine, Sir J. | Nuttall, Harry | Tennant, H. J. (Berwickshire) |
Johnson, John (Gateshead) | O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny) | Thomas, Abel (Carmarthen, E.) |
Jones, David Brynmor (Swansea | O'Brien, William (Cork) | Thomas, Sir A. (Glamorgan, E.) |
Jones, Leif (Appleby) | O'Connor, James (Wicklow, W.) | Thomasson, Franklin |
Jones, William (Carnarvonshire | O'Connor, John (Kildare, N.) | Tomkinson, James |
Jowett, F. W. | O'Connor, T. P. (Liverpool) | Torrance, A. M. |
Joyce, Michael | O'Doherty, Philip | Ure, Alexander |
Kearley, Hudson E. | O'Donnell, T. (Kerry, W.) | Verney, F. W. |
Kekewicli, Sir George | O'Grady, J. | Walker, H. De R. (Leicester) |
Kennedy, Vincent Paul | O'Hare, Patrick | Walsh, Stephen |
Kilbride, Denis | O'Malley, William | Ward, John (Stoke-upon-Trent |
King, Alfred John (Knustford) | O'Shaughnessy, P. J. | Ward, W. Dudley (Southampton |
Kitson, Sir James | Parker, James (Halifax) | Warner Thomas Courtenay T. |
Lamb, Ernest H. (Rochester) | Paul, Herbert | Wason, Eugene (Clackmannan) |
Lambert, George | Pearce, Robert (Staffs. Leek) | Wason, John Cathcart(Orkney) |
Lamont, Norman | Pearce, J. A. (Saffron Walden) | Watt H Anderson |
Law, Hugh A. (Donegal, W.) | Philipps, Col. Ivor (S'thampton) | Wedgwood Josiah C. |
Layland-Barratt, Francis | Philipps, J. Wynford (Pembroke | Weir James Galloway |
Lea, Hugh Cecil (St. Pancras, E | Philipps, Owen C. (Pembroke) | White, J. D. (Dumbartonshire |
Leese, Sir Joseph F.(Accrington) | Power, Patrick Joseph | White' Luke (York E. R.) |
Price, C. E. (Edinb'gh, Central | Lever, A. Levy(Essex, Harwich) | White, Patrick (Meath, North) |
Lever, A. Levy (Essex, Harwich) | Price, Robert John (Norfolk E. | Whitfhead Rowland |
Lever, W.H. (Cheshire, Wirral) | Rainy, A. Rolland | Whitely, J.H. (Halifax) |
Lewis, John Herbert | Raphael, Herbert H. | Wiles. Thomas |
Lloyd-George, Rt. Hon. David | Rea, Russell (Gloucester) | Wilkie, Alexander |
Lough, Thomas | Reddy, M. | Williams, Llewelyn (Carm'rth'n) |
Lundon, W. | Redmond,, John E. (Waterford | Williams, Osmond (Merioneth) |
Lupton, Arnold | Redmond, William (Clare) | Wilson, Hn. C. H. W. (Hull. W.) |
Luttrell, Hugh Fownes | Rees, J. D. | Wilson, J. W. (Worcestersh. N. |
Lynch, H. B. | Rickett, J. Compton | Wilson, P. W. (St. Pancras, S.) |
Macdonald, J. R. (Leicester) | Robertson, Sir G. Scott(Bradf'rd) | Wilson W T (Westhoughton |
Macdonald, J.M.(Falkirk B'ghs | Robertson, J. M. (Tyneside) | Wood T M'Kinnon |
Mackarness, Frederic C. | Robinson, S. | Woodhouse, Sir J.T.(Huddersf'd |
MacVeagh, Jeremiah (Down, S. | Roche, John (Galway, East) | Young, Samuel |
MacVeigh, Chas. (Donegal, E. | Rose, Charles Day | |
M'Callum, John M. | Rowlands, J. | TELLERS FOR THE NOES—Mr. |
M'Crae, George | Russell, T. W. | Soares and Mr. Winfrey. |
M'Kenna, Reginald | Rutherford, V. H. (Brentford | |
M'Killop, W. | Samuel, Herbert L.(Cleveland) |
§ SIR E. CARSONmoved to insert after the word "tenants," the words relating 1314 to compensation for improvements." He pointed out that the House up to a short 1315 time previously was under the impression that this clause was to substitute one arbitrator for the two insisted upon in the previous Act for this purpose, but they had now ascertained that the subsection went much further, and meant that the arbitrator was to deal not only with questions in dispute as to improvements, but with every case of dispute under the agreements which had been entered into. If anybody turned to the Agricultural Holdings Act of 1900 which set up the principle of arbitration, and which this section amended, they would find that that arbitration was to be confined to compensation for improvements. The words of the section of the present Bill were the words of the second section of the Act of 1900, except that the words "compensation for improvements "were left out to make it wider. Unless it was intended to abrogate the rights of landlords and tenants under the agreements entered into, he could not see the reason for this Bill widening that section in this way.
§
Amendment proposed—
In page 1, line 54, after the word 'tenancy' to insert the words 'relating to compensation for improvements."'—(Sir Edward Carson.)
§ Question proposed, "That those words be there inserted."
§ SIR W. ROBSONsaid no doubt the subsection did extend the principle of the single arbitrator to all cases in which arbitration was provided for. He thought there was no very essential
§ distinction so far as the tribunal for dealing with them was concerned, between compensation cases and other cases.
§ SIR F. BANBURYsaid the Solicitor-General appeared, like the hon. member for Clitheroe, to be in favour of taking away freedom of contract from everybody, and of setting up a particular class of persons to judge what other people might do. It was monstrous that when two people desired to take a certain course, the hon. member for Clitheroe, or somebody equally ignorant of agricultural matters, should step in and say they should not be allowed to do so.
§ Mr. SOARESrose in his place, and claimed to move, "That the Question be now put;" but Mr. SPEAKER withheld his assent, and declined then to put that Question.
§ SIR F. BANBURYsaid that that was an illustration of the manner in which the Bill had been conducted, and he would say no more.
§ Mr. ABEL SMITHrose to continue the debate, but
§ Mr. SOARESrose in his place, and claimed to move; "That the Question be now put."
§ Question put, "That the Question lie now put."
§ The House divided:—Ayes, 319; Noes, 85. (Division List, No. 173.)
1319AYES. | ||
Abraham William, (Cork, N.E. | Beale, W. P. | Buckmaater, Stanley O. |
Abraham, William (Rhondda) | Beauchamp, E. | Burke, E. Haviland- |
Acland, Francis Dyke | Beaumont, W. C. B. (Hexham) | Burns, Rt. Hon. John |
Adkins, W. Ryland | Beck, A. Cecil | Burnyeat, J. D. W. |
Alden, Percy | Bellairs, Carlyon | Burt, Rt. Hon. Thomas |
Allen, A. Acland (Christchurch) | Benn, W.(T'w'r Hamlets, S. Geo. | Buxton, Rt. Hn. Sydney Chas. |
Allen, Charles P. (Stroud) | Bennett, E. N. | Byles, William Pollard |
Astbury, John Meir | Bethell, T. R. (Essex, Maldon) | Cairns, Thomas |
Atherley-Jones, L. | Billson, Alfred | Cameron, Robert |
Baker, Sir John (Portsmouth) | Black, Arthur W.(Bedfordshire | Carr-Gomm, H. W. |
Baker, Joseph A.(Finsbury, E.) | Blake, Edward | Causton, Rt. Hn Richard Knight |
Balfour, Robert (Lanark) | Boland, John | Cawley, Frederick |
Baring, Godfrey (Isle of Wight) | Bolton, T.D.(Derbyshire, N.E.) | Channing, Francis Allston |
Barker, John | Brace, William | Cheetham, John Frederick |
Barlow, John Emmott (Somers't | Branch, James | Churchill, Winston Spencer |
Barlow, Percy (Bedford) | Brunner, J.F.L. (Lanes., Leigh) | Clarke, C. Goddard |
Barnard, E. B. | Brunner, Sir John T. (Cheshire) | Cleland, J. W. |
Barran, Rowland Hirst | Bryce, J.A. (Inverness Burghs) | Clough, W. |
Barry, E. (Cork, S.) | Buchanan, Thomas Ryburn | Coats, Sir T. Glen (Rentrew, W.) |
Collins, Stephen (Lambeth) | Horniman, Emslie John | Norton, Capt. Cecil William |
Condon, Thomas Joseph | Howard, Hon. Geoffrey | Nussey, Thomas Willans |
Cooper, G. J. | Hutton, Alfred Eddison | Nuttall, Harry |
Corbett, CH.(Sussex, E. Grinst'd | Hyde, Clarendon | O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny) |
Cornwall, Sir Edwin A. | Jackson, R. S. | O'Brien, William (Cork) |
Crean, Eugene | Jacoby, James Alfred | O'Connor, James (Wicklow. W. |
Cremer, William Randal | Jardine, Sir J. | O'Connor, John (Kildare, N.) |
Crombie, John William | Jones, David Brynmor(Swansea | O'Connor, T. P. (Liverpool) |
Crossley, William J. | Jones, Leif (Appleby) | O'Doherty, Philip |
Dalziel, James Henry | Jones, William (Carnarvonshire | O'Donnell, T. (Kerry, W.) |
Davies, M. Vaughan (Cardigan | Jowett, F. W. | O'Grady, J. |
Davies, Timothy (Fulham) | Joyce, Michael | O'Hare, Patrick |
Davies, W. Howell (Bristol, S.) | Kearley, Hudson E. | O'Malley, William |
Delany, William | Kekewich, Sir George | O'Shaughnessy, P. J. |
Devlin, Charles Ramsay(Galw'y | Kennedy, Vincent Paul | Parker, James (Halifax) |
Dewar, Arthur (Edinburgh, S.) | Kilbride, Denis | Partington, Oswald |
Dewar, John A. (Inverness-sh. | Kincaid-Smith, Captain | Paul, Herbert |
Dickinson, W.H.(St. Pancras, N. | King, Alfred John (Knutsford) | Paulton, James Mellor |
Dickson-Poynder, Sir John P. | Kitson, Sir James | Pearce, Robert (Staffs. Leek) |
Dillon, John | Lamb, Ernest H. (Rochester) | Pease, J. A. (Saffron Walden) |
Dodd, W. H. | Lambert, George | Philipps, Col. Ivor (S'thampton) |
Dolan, Charles Joseph | Lamont, Norman | Philipps, J. Wynford (Pembroke |
Donelan, Captain A. | Law, Hugh A. (Donegal, W.) | Philipps, Owen C. (Pembroke) |
Duffy, William J. | Layland-Barratt, Francis | Power, Patrick Joseph |
Duncan, C. (Barrow-in-Furness | Lea, Hugh Cecil(St. Pancras, E. | Price, C.E.(Edinburgh, Central) |
Duncan, J. H. (York, Otley) | Leese, Sir Joseph F.(Accrington | Price, Robert John(Norfolk, E.), |
Dunn, A. Edward (Camborne) | Lehmann, R. C. | Rainy, A. Holland |
Dunne, Major E. Martin(Walsall | Lever, A. Levy (Essex, Harwich) | Raphael, Herbert H. |
Edwards, Clement (Denbigh) | Lever, W. H. (Cheshire, Wirral) | Rea, Russell (Gloucester) |
Edwards, Enoch (Hanley) | Lewis, John Herbert | Reddy, M. |
Erskine, David C. | Lloyd-George, Rt. Hon. David | Redmond, John E. (Waterford |
Esmonde, Sir Thomas | Lough, Thomas | Redmond, William (Clare) |
Evans, Samuel T. | Lundon, W. | Rees, J. D. |
Everett, R. Lacey | Lupton, Arnold | Renton, Major Leslie |
Farrell, James Patrick | Luttrell, Hugh Fownes | Richards, T.F. (Wolverh'mpt'n. |
Ferens, T. R. | Lyell, Charles Henry | Rickett, J. Compton |
Ferguson, R. C. Munro | Lynch, H. B. | Ridsdale, E. A. |
Ffrench, Peter | Macdonald, J. R. (Leicester) | Roberts, G. H. (Norwich) fl |
Flavin, Michael Joseph | Macdonald, J.M. (Falkirk B'ghs | Robertson, SirGScott(Bradf'rd, |
Flynn, James Christopher | Mackarness, Frederic C. | Robertson, J. M. (Tyneside |
Foster, Rt. Hon. Sir Walter | MacVeagh, Jeremiah (Down, S. | Robinson, S. |
Fuller, John Michael F. | MacVeigh, Charles(Donegal, E.) | Robson, Sir William Snowdon |
Fullerton, Hugh | M'Crae, George | Roche. John (Galway, East) |
Gibb, James (Harrow) | M'Kenna, Reginald | Roe, Sir Thomas |
Ginnell, L. | M'Killop, W. | Rogers, F. E. Newman |
Gladstone, Rt. Hn. Herbert John | M'Laren, H. D. (Stafford, W.) | Rose, Charles Day |
Greenwood, G. (Peterborough | M'Micking, Major G. | Rowlands, J. |
Greenwood, Hamar (York) | Maddison, Frederick | Russell, T. W. |
Griffith, Ellis J. | Mallet, Charles E. | Rutherford, V. H. (Brentford) |
Gulland, John W. | Manfield, Harry (Northants) | Samuel, Herbert L. (Cleveland). |
Haldane, Rt. Hon. Richard B. | Mansfield, H. Rendall (Lincoln) | Samuel, S. M. (Whitechapel) |
Halpin, J. | Marks, G. Croydon(Launceston) | Scarisbrick, T. T. L. |
Hammond, John | Marnham, F. J. | Schwann, C. Duncan (Hyde) |
Hardy, George A. (Suffolk) | Massie, J. | Schwann, Chas. E. (Manchester |
Harmsworth, Cecil B. (Worc'r) | Meagher, Michael | Scott, A.H. (Ashton-und.-Lyne |
Harrington, Timothy | Menzies, Walter | Sears, J. E. |
Hart-Davies, T. | Micklem, Nathaniel | Seaverns, J. H. |
Harwood, George | Molteno, Percy Alport | Seddon, J. |
Haslam, James (Derbyshire) | Mond, A. | Shackleton, David James |
Haslam, Lewis (Monmouth) | Montagu, E. S. | Shaw, Rt. Hon. T. (Hawick, P. |
Haworth, Arthur A. | Montgomery, H. H. | Shipman, Dr. John G.) |
Hayden, John Patrick | Mooney, J. J. | Silcock, Thomas Ball |
Hazel, Dr. A. E. | Morgan, J. Lloyd (Carmarthen | Sinclair, Rt. Hon. John |
Hazleton, Richard | Morrell, Philip | Sloan, Thomas Henry |
Henderson, Arthur (Durham) | Morton, Alpheus Cleophas | Smeaton, Donald Mackenzie |
Henderson, J.M.(Aberdeen, W. | Murnaghan, George | Smyth, Thomas F. (Leitrim, S. |
Henry, Charles S. | Murphy, John | Snowdon, P. |
Herbert, T. Arnold (Wycombe) | Murray, James | Soames, Arthur Wellesley |
Higham, John Sharp | Myer, Horatio | Stanger, H. Y. |
Hobhouse, Charles E. H. | Napier, T. B. | Stanley, Hn. A. Lyulph (Chesh.) |
Hogan, Michael | Nicholls, George | Steadman, W. C. |
Holden, E. Hopkinson | Nicholson, Charles N. (Doncast'r | Stewart, Halley (Greenock) |
Hooper, A. G. | Nolan, Joseph | Stewart-Smith, D. (Kendal) |
Strachey, Sir Edward | Waker, H. De R. (Leicester) | Wilkie, Alexander |
Straus, B. S. (Mile End) | Walsh, Stephen | Williams, Llewelyn (Carm'rth'n |
Sullivan, Donal | Walters, John Tudor | Williams, Osmond (Merioneth) |
Sutherland, J. E. | Ward, John (Stoke-upon-Trent | Wills, Arthur Walters |
Taylor, Austin (East Toxteth) | Warner, Thomas Courtenay T. | Wilson, Hon. C.H.W. (Hull, W.) |
Taylor, John W. (Durham) | Wason, Eugene (Clackmannan) | Wilson, J. H. (Middlesbrough) |
Taylor, Theodore C. (Radcliffe) | Wason, John Cathcart(Orkney) | Wilson, J.W. (Worcestersh. N.) |
Tennant, Sir Edward (Salisb'ry | Watt, H. Anderson | Wilson, P. W. (St. Pancras, S.) |
Thomas, Abel (Carmarthen, E.) | Wedgwood, Josiah C. | Wood, T. M'Kinnon |
Thomas, Sir A. (Glamorgan, E. | Weir, James Galloway | Woodhouse, Sir JT.(Huddersfi'd |
Thomasson, Franklin | White, J.D. (Dumbartonshire) | Young, Samuel |
Tomkinson, James | White, Luke (York, E.R.) | |
Torrance, A. M. | White, Patrick (Meath, North) | TELLERS FOR THE AYES—Mr. |
Toulmin, George | Whitehead, Rowland | Soares and Mr. Winfrey. |
Ure, Alexander | Whitley, J. H. (Halifax) | |
Verney, P. W. | Wiles, Thomas | |
NOES. | ||
Anson, Sir William Reynell | Finch, Rt. Hon. George H. | Nicholson, Wm. G. (Petersrield) |
Anstruther-Gray, Major | Fletcher, J. S. | Nield, Herbert |
Arkwright, John Stanhope | Forster, Henry William | Pease, HerbertPike (Darlington |
Ashley, W. W. | Gardner, Ernest (Berks, East) | Percy, Earl |
Aubrey-Fletcher, Rt. Hn. Sir H. | Gibbs, G. A. (Bristol, West) | Remnant, James Farquharson |
Balcarres, Lord | Haddock, George R. | Ropner, Colonel Sir Robert |
Balfour, Rt Hn. A. J. (City Lond.) | Hardy, Laurence (Kent, Ashf rd | Rothschild, Hon. Lionel Walter |
Balfour, Capt. C. B. (Hornsey) | Harrison-Broadley, Col. H. B. | Sassoon, Sir Edward Albert |
Banbury, Sir Frederick George | Hay, Hon. Claude George | Scott, Sir S. (Marylebone, W.) |
Beach, Hn. Michael Hugh Hicks | Helmsley, Viscount | Smith, Abel H.(Hertford, East) |
Beckett, Hon. Gervase | Hervey, F.W.F(Bury S Edm'ds | Starkey, John R. |
Bignold, Sir Arthur | Hill, Sir Clement (Shrewsbury) | Stone, Sir Benjamin |
Boyle, Sir Edward | Hills, J. W. | Talbot, Rt, Hn. J.G(Oxf d Univ. |
Bridgeman, W. Clive | Hornby, Sir William Henry | Thomson, W. Mitchell- (Lanark |
Campbell, Rt. Hon. J. H. M. | Houston, Robert Paterson | Thornton, Percy M. |
Carson, Rt. Hon. Sir Edw. H. | Kennaway, Rt. Hn. Sir John H. | Tumour, Viscount |
Castlereagh, Viscount | Kenyon-Slaney, Rt. Hn. Col. W. | Walker, Col. W. H. (Lancashire) |
Cave, George | Keswick, William | Walrond, Hon. Lionel |
Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor) | Lambton, Hon. Frederick Wm. | Williams, Col. R. (Dorset, W.) |
Cecil, Lord John P. Joicey- | Lane-Fox, G. R. | Willoughby de Eresby, Lord |
Cecil, Lord R. (Marylebone, E.) | Liddell, Henry | Wilson, A. Stanley (York, E.R.) |
Cochrane, Hon. Thos. H. A. E. | Lockwood, Rt. Hn. Lt.-Col. A.R. | Wolff, Gustav Wilhelm |
Courthope, G. Loyd | Long, Rt. Hn. Walter(Dublin, S) | Wortley, Rt. Hon. C. B. Stuart- |
Craig, Capt. James (Down, E.) | Lonsdale, John Brownlee | Wyndham, Rt. Hon. George |
Craik, Sir Henry | Lowe, Sir Francis William | Younger, George |
Cross, Alexander | Lyttleton, Rt. Hon. Alfred | |
Dalrymple, Viscount | M'Calmont, Colonel James | TELLERS FOR THE NOES—Sir |
Dixon-Hartland, SirFredDixon | Marks, H. H. (Kent) | Alexander Acland-Hood and |
Faber, George Denison (York) | Mason, James F. (Windsor) | Viscount Valentia. |
Fell, Arthur | Meysey-Thompson, E. C. |
§ Question put accordingly, "That the words 'relating to compensation for improvements 'be there inserted.'"
1320§ The House divided:—Ayes, 88; Noes, 304. (Division List, No. 174).
1323AYES. | ||
Anson, Sir William Reynell | Campbell, Rt. Hon. J. H. M. | Fell, Arthur |
Anstruther-Gray, Major | Carson, Et. Hon. Sir Edw. H. | Finch, Rt. Hon. George H. |
Arkwright, John Stanhope | Castlereagh, Viscount | Fletcher,; J. S. |
Aubrey-Fletcher, Rt. Hon Sir H | Cave, George | Forster, Henry Wiliam |
Balcarres, Lord | Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor) | Fuller, John Michael F. |
Balfour, Rt Hn. A. J(City Lond.) | Cecil, Lord John P. Joicey- | Gardner, Ernest (Berks, East) |
Balfour, Capt. C. B. (Hornsey) | Cecil, Lord R. (Marylebone, E.) | Haddock, George R. |
Banbury, Sir Frederick George | Cochrane, Hon. Thos. H.A.E. | Hardy, Laurence(Kent, Ashford |
Beach, Hn Michael Hugh Hicks | Courthope, G. Loyd | Hay, Hon. Claude George |
Beaumont, W. C. B. (Hexham) | Craig, Captain James(Down,E.) | Helmsley, Viscount |
Beckett, Hon. Gervase | Craik, Sir Henry | Hervey, F.W.F.(Bury S. Edm'ds |
Bethell, T. R. (Essex, Maldon) | Cross, Alexander | Hill, Sir Clement (Shrewsbury) |
Bignold, Sir Arthur | Dalrymple, Viscount | Hills, J. W. |
Boyle, Sir Edward | Dixon-Hartland, Sir Fred Dixon | Hobhouse, Charles E. H. |
Bridgeman, W. Clive | Faber, George Denison (York) | Hornby, Sir William Henry |
Houston, Robert Paterson | Morpeth, Viscount | Thornton, Percy M. |
Kennaway, Rt. Hon Sir John H. | Nicholson, Wm. G.(Petersfield) | Turnour, Viscount |
Kenyon-Slaney, Rt. Hn. Col. W. | Nield, Herbert | Walker, Col. W. H.(Lancashire) |
Keswick, William | Pease, Herbert Pike (Darlington | Walrond, Hon. Lionel |
Lambton, Kou. Frederick Wm | Percy, Earl | Williams, Col. R. (Dorset, W.) |
Lane-Pox, G. R. | Remnant, James Farquharson | Willoughby de Eresby, Lord |
Liddell, Henry | Ridsdale, E. A. | Wilson, A. Stanley (York, E.R. |
Lockwood, Rt. Hn Lt.-Col, A.R. | Ropner, Colonel Sir Robert | Wolff, Gustav Wilhelm |
Long, Rt. Hn. Walter(Dublin, S.) | Rothschild, Hon. Lionel Walter | Wortley, Rt. Hon. C. B. Stuart. |
Lonsdale, John Brownlee | Scott, Sir S. (Marylebone, W.) | Wyndham, Rt. Hon. George |
Lowe, Sir Francis William | Smith, Abel H. (Hertford, East) | Younger, George |
Lyttelton, Rt. Hon. Alfred | Starkey, John R. | |
M'Calmont, Colonel James | Stone, Sir Benjamin | TELLERS FOR THE AYES—Sir |
Marks, H. H. (Kent) | Talbot, Rt. Hn. J.G.(Oxf'dUniv. | Alexander Acland-Hood and |
Mason, James F. (Windsor) | Tennant, Sir Edward(Salisbury | Viscount Valentia. |
Meysey-Thompson, E. C. | Thomson, W. Mitchell-(Lanark) | |
NOES | ||
Abraham, William (Cork, N.E). | Clough, W. | Harrington, Timothy |
Abraham, William (Rhondda) | Coats, Sir T. Glen (Renfrew, W.) | Hart-Davies, T. |
Acland, Francis Dyke | Collins, Stephen (Lambeth) | Harwood, George |
Adkins, W. Ryland | Condon, Thomas Joseph | Haworth, Arthur A. |
Alden, Percy | Cooper, G. J. | Hayden, John Patrick |
Allen, A. Acland (Christchurch) | Corbett, C.H.(Sussex, EGrinst'd | Hazel, Dr. A. E. |
Allen, Charles P. (Stroud) | Cornwall, Sir Edwin A. | Hazleton, Richard |
Astbury, John Meir | Crean, Eugene | Healy, Timothy Michael |
Atherley-Jones, L. | Cremer, William Randal | Henderson, Arthur (Durham) |
Baker, Sir John (Portsmouth) | Crombie, John William | Henderson, J. M (Aberdeen, W.) |
Baker, Joseph A. (Finsbury. E.) | Dalziel, James Henry | Henry, Charles S. |
Balfour, Robert (Lanark) | Davies, M. Vaughan-(Cardigan | Herbert, T. Arnold (Wycombe) |
Baring, Godfrey (Isle of Wight) | Davies, Timothy (Fulham) | Higham, John Sharp |
Barker, John | Davies, W. Howell (Bristol, S.) | Hogan, Michael |
Barlow, John Emmott (Somerset | Delany, William | Holden, E. Hopkinson |
Barlow, Percy (Bedford) | Devlin, Charles Ramsay(Galway | Hooper, A. G. |
Barnard, E. B. | Dewar, Arthur (Edinburgh, S.) | Horniman, Emslie John |
Barran, Rowland Hirst | Dewar, John A. (Inverness-sh. | Howard, Hon. Geoffrey |
Barry, E. (Cork, S.) | Dickinson, W.H.(St Pancras. N. | Hutton, Alfred Eddison |
Beale, W. P. | Dickson-Poynder, Sir John P. | Hyde, Clarendon |
Beauchamp, E. | Dillon, John | Isaacs, Rufus Daniel |
Beck, A. Cecil | Dodd, W. H. | Jackson, R. S. |
Belloc, Hilaire Joseph Peter R. | Dolan, Charles Joseph | Jacoby, James Alfred |
Benn, W.(T'w'r Hamlets, S. Geo. | Donelan, Captain A. | Jones, David Brynmor(Swansea |
Bennett, E. N. | Duffy, William J. | Jones, Leif (Appleby) |
Billson, Alfred | Duncan, C. (Barrow-in-Furness | Jones, William (Carnarvonshire |
Black, Arthur W. (Bedfordshire | Duncan, J. H. (York, Otley) | Jowett, F. W. |
Blake, Edward | Dunn, A. Edward (Camborne) | Joyce, Michael |
Boland, John | Dunne, Major E. Martin (Walsall | Kearley, Hudson E. |
Bolton, T.D. (Derbyshire, N.E.) | Edwards, Clement (Denbigh) | Kekewich, Sir George |
Brace, William | Erskine, David C. | Kennedy, Vincent Paul |
Branch, James | Esmonde, Sir Thomas | Kilbride, Denis |
Bright, J. A. | Evans, Samuel T. | Kincaid-Smith, Captain |
Brunner, J. F. L. (Lanes.,Leigh) | Everett, R. Lacey | King, Alfred John (Knutsford) |
Brunner, Sir John T. (Cheshire) | Farrell, James Patrick | Kitson, Sir James |
Bryce, Rt. Hn. James(Aberdeen | Ferens, T. R. | Lambert, George |
Bryce, J. A.(Inverness Burghs) | Ferguson, R. C. Munro | Lamont, Norman |
Buchanan, Thomas Ryburn | Ffrench, Peter | Law, Hugh A. (Donegal, W.) |
Buckmaster, Stanley O. | Flavin, Michael Joseph | Layland-Barratt, Francis |
Burke, E. Haviland | Flynn, James Christopher | Lea, Hugh Cecil (St. Pancras. E. |
Burnyeat, J. D. W. | Foster, Rt. Hon. Sir Walter | Leese, Sir Joseph F. (Accrington |
Burt, Rt. Hon. Thomas | Fullerton, Hugh | Lehmann, R. C. |
Buxton, Rt. Hn. Sydney Charles | Gibb, James (Harrow) | Lever, A. Levy (Essex, Harwich] |
Byles, William Pollard | Ginnell, L. | Lever, W. H. (Cheshire, Wirral) |
Cairns, Thomas | Greenwood, G. (Peterborough) | Lewis, John Herbert |
Cameron, Robert | Greenwood, Hamar (York) | Lloyd-George, Rt. Hon. David |
Causton, Rt. Hn. Richard Knight | Griffith, Ellie J. | Lough, Thomas |
Cawley, Frederick | Gulland, John W. | Lundon, W. |
Channing, Francis Allston | Haldane, Rt. Hon. Richard B. | Lupton, Arnold |
Cheetham, John Frederick | Halpin, J. | Luttrell, Hugh Fownes |
Churchill, Winston Spencer | Hammond, John | Lyell, Charles Henry |
Clarke, C. Goddard | Hardy, George A. (Suffolk) | Lynch, H. B. |
Cleland, J. W. | Harmsworth, Cecil B. (Worc'r) | Macdonald, J. R. (Leicester) |
Macdonald, J.M.(Falkirk B'ghs | Paul, Herhert | Stanger, H. Y. |
Markarness, Frederic C. | Paulton, James Mellor | Stanley, Hn. A. Lyulph (Chesh. |
MacVeagh, Jeremiah (Down, S. | Pearce, Robert (Staffs, Leek) | Steadman, W. C. |
MacVeigh, Charles(Donegal, E.) | Pease, J. A. (Saffron Walden) | Stewart, Halley (Greenock) |
M'Crae, George | Philipps, J Wynford(Pembroke | Stewart-Smith, D. (Kendal) |
M'Kenna, Reginald | Philipps, Owen C. (Pembroke) | Strachey, Sir Edward |
M'Killop, W. | Power, Patrick Joseph | Straus, B. S. (Mile End) |
M'Laren, H. D. (Stafford, W.) | Price. C E.(Edinburgh, Central) | Sullivan, Donal |
M'Micking, Major C. | Price, Robert John(Norfolk, E.) | Sutherland, J. E. |
Maddison, Frederick | Rainy, A. Holland | Taylor, Austin (East Toxteth) |
Mallet, Charles E. | Raphael, Herbert H. | Taylor, John W. (Durham) |
Manfield, Harry (Northants) | Rea, Russell (Gloucester) | Taylor, Theodore C: (Radcliffe) |
Mansfield, H. Rendall (Lincoln) | Reddy, M. | Thomas, Abel (Carmarthen, E.) |
Marks, G Croydon (Launceston) | Redmond, John E.(Waterford) | Thomas, Sir A. (Glamorgan, E.) |
Marnbam, F. J. | Redmond, William (Clare) | Thomasson, Franklin |
Massie, J. | Rees, J. D. | Tomkinson, James |
Meagher, Michael | Renton, Major Leslie | Torrance, A. M. |
Menzies, Walter | Richards. T. F.(Wolverh'mpt'n | Toulmin, George |
Micklem, Nathaniel | Rickett, J. Compton | Ure, Alexander |
Molteno, Percy Alport | Roberts, G. H. (Norwich) | Verney, F. W. |
Mond, A. | Robertson, Sir G. Scott (Bradf'rd | Walker, H. De R. (Leicester) |
Montagu, E. S. | Robertson, J. M. (Tyneside) | Walsh, Stephen |
Montgomery, H. H. | Robinson, S. | Walters, John Tudor |
Mooney, J. J. | Robson, Sir William Snowdon | Ward, John (Stoke upon Trent) |
Morgan, J Lloyd (Carmarthen) | Roche, John (Galway, East) | Warner, Thomas Courtenay T. |
Morrell, Philip | Roe, Sir Thomas | Wason, Eugene (Clackmannan) |
Morton, Alpheus Cleophas | Rogers, F. E. Newman | Wason, John Cathcart(Orkney) |
Murnaghan, George | Rose, Charles Day | Watt, H. Anderson |
Murphy, John | Rowlands, J. | Wedgwood, Josiah C. |
Murray, James | Russell, T. W. | Weir, James Galloway |
Myer, Horatio | Rutherford, V. H. (Brentford) | White, J. D. (Dumbartonshire) |
Napier, T. B. | Samuel, Herbert L.(Cleveland) | White, Luke (York, E.R.) |
Nicholls, George | Samuel, S. M. (Whitechapel) | White, Patrick (Meath, North) |
Nicholson, CharlesN,.(Doncastr | Scarisbrick, T. T. L. | Whitehead, Rowland |
Nolan, Joseph | Schwann, C. Duncan (Hyde) | Whitley, J. H. (Halifax) |
Norman, Henry | Schwann, Chas E. (Manchester) | Wiles, Thomas |
Nussey, Thomas Willans | Scott, A. H.(Ashton under Lyne | Wilkie, Alexander |
Nuttall, Harry | Sears, J. E. | Williams, Llewelyn (Carmarth'n |
O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny) | Seaverns, J. H. | Williams, Osmond (Merioneth) |
O'Connor, James(Wicklow, W.) | Seddon, J. | Wills, Arthur Walters |
O'Connor, John (Kildare, N.) | Shackleton, David James | Wilson, J. W. (Worcestersh. N. |
O'Connor, T. P. (Liverpool) | Shaw, Rt, Hon. T.(Hawick B.) | Wilson, P. W. (St. Pancras, S.> |
O'Doherty, Philip | Shipman, Dr. John G. | Wood, T. M'Kinnon |
O'Donnell, T. (Kerry. W.) | Silcock, Thomas Ball | Woodhouse, Sir J.T.(Hudd'rsf'd. |
O'Grady. J | Sinclair, Rt. Hon. John | Young, Samuel |
O'Hare, Patrick | Sloan, Thomas Henry | |
O'Malley. William | Smeaton, Donald Mackenzie | TELLERS FOR THE NOES—Mr. |
O'Shauglmessy, P. J. Parker, James (Halifax) | Smyth, Thomas F.(Leitrim, S.) | Soares and Mr. Winfrey. |
Parker, James (Halifax) | Snowdon, P. | |
Partington, Oswald | Soames, Arthur Wellesley |
§ ME. SOARESclaimed, "That the Question, 'That the words of the Bill to the end of Clause 1 stand part of the Bill, be now put."
§ The House divided: Ayes, 296;—, 80. (Division List No. 175.)
AYES. | ||
Abraham, William (Cork, N.E.) | Baker, Sir John (Portsmouth) | Barran, Rowland Hirst |
Abraham, William (Rhondda) | Baker, Joseph A.(Finsbury, E.) | Barry, E. (Cork, S.) |
Acland, Francis Dyke | Balfour, Robert (Lanark) | Beale, W. P. |
Adkins, W. Ryland | Baring, Godfrey (Isle of Wight) | Boauchamp, E. |
Alden, Percy | Barker, John | Beaumont, W. C. B. (Hexham), |
Allen, A. Acland (Christchurch) | Barlow, John Emmott (Somerset | Beck, A. Cecil |
Allen, Charles P. (Stroud) | Barlow, Percy (Bedfcrd) | Bellairs, Carlyon |
Astbury, John Meir | Barnard, E. B. | Belloc, Hilaire Joseph Peter R |
§ Question put, "That the Question, 'That the words of the Bill to the end of Clause 1 stand part, of the Bill' be now put."
1327Benn, W. (T'w'r Hamlets, S Geo. | Gill, A. H.; | Mallet, Charles E. |
Bennett, E. N. | Greenwood, G. (Peterborough) | Manfield, Harry (Northants) |
Bethell, T. R. (Essex, Maldon) | Greenwood, Hamar (York) | Mansfield, H. Rendall (Lincoln |
Billson, Alfred | Gulland, John W. | Marks, G. Croydon(Launceston) |
Black, Arthur W. (Bedfordshire | Haldane, Rt. Hon. Richard B. | Marnham, F. J. |
Blake, Edward | Halpin, J. | Massie, J. |
Boland, John | Hammond, John | Meagher, Michael |
Bolton, T. D. (Derbyshire, N.E.) | Harmsworth, Cecil B. (Worc'r) | Menzies, Walter |
Brace, William | Harrington, Timothy | Micklem, Nathaniel |
Branch, James | Harwood, George | Molteno, Percy Alport |
Bright, J. A. | Haslam, Lewis (Monmouth) | Mond, A. |
Brunner, J.F.L. (Lanes., Leigh) | H worth, Arthur A. | Montagu, E. S. |
Brunner, Sir John T. (Cheshire) | Hayden, John Patrick | Montgomery, H. H. |
Bryce, J. A. (Inverness Burghs) | Hazel, Dr. A. E. | Mooney, J. J. |
Buchanan, Thomas Ryburn | Hazleton, Richard | Morrell, Philip |
Buckmaster, Stanley O. | Healy, Timothy Michael | Morton, Alpheus Cleophas |
Burke, E. Haviland- | Hedges, A. Paget | Murphy, John |
Burnyeat, J. D. W. | Henderson, Arthur (Durham) | Murray, James |
Burt, Rt. Hon. Thomas | Henderson, J. M. (Aberdeen, W.) | Myer, Horatio |
Byles, William Pollard | Henry, Charles S. | Napier, T. B. |
Cairns, Thomas | Herbert, T. Arnold (Wycombe) | Nicholls, George |
Cameron, Robert | Higham, John Sharp | Nicholson, Chas. N. (Doncast'r) |
Causton, Rt. Hn. Richard Knight | Hobart, Sir Robert | Nolan, Joseph |
Cawley, Frederick | Hobhouse, Charles E. H. | Norton, Capt. Cecil William |
Channing, Francis Allston | Hogan, Michael | Nuttall, Harry |
Cheetham, John Frederick | Holden, E. Hopkinson | O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny) |
Churchill, Winston Spencer | Hooper, A. G. | O'Brien, William (Cork) |
Clarke, C. Goddard | Horniman, Emslie John | O'Connor, James (Wicklow, W.) |
Cleland, J. W. | Howard, Hon. Geoffrey | O'Connor, John (Kildare, N.) |
Clough, W. | Hutton, Alfred Eddison | O'Connor, T. P. (Liverpool) |
Coats, Sir T. Glen. (Renfrew, W.) | Hyde, Clarendon | O'Doherty, Philip |
Collins, Stephen (Lambeth) | Isaacs, Rufus Daniel | O'Donnell, T. (Kerry, W.) |
Condon, Thomas Joseph | Jackson, R. S. | O'Grady, J. |
Cooper, G. J. | Jones, David Brynmor (Swansea | O'Hare, Patrick |
Corbett, C.H.(Sussex, E. Grinst'd | Jones, Leif (Appleby) | O'Malley, William |
Cornwall, Sir Edwin A. | Jones, William (Carnarvonshire | O'Shaughnessy, P. J. |
Crean, Eugene | Joyce, Michael | Parker, James (Halifax) |
Cremer, William Randal | Kearley, Hudson E. | Partington, Oswald |
Crombie, John William | Kekewich, Sir George | Paul, Herbert |
Dalziel, James Henry | Kennedy, Vincent Paul | Pearce, Robert (Staffs. Leek) |
Davies, M. Vaughan-(Cardigan | Kilbride, Denis | Pease, J. A. (Saffron Walden) |
Davies, Timothy (Fulham) | Kincaid-Smith, Captain | Philipps, Col. Ivor (S'thampton) |
Davies, W. Howell (Bristol, S.) | King, Alfred John (Knutsford) | Philipps, J. Wynford (Pembroke |
Delany, William | Kitson, Sir James | Philipps, Owen C. (Pembroke) J |
Devlin, Charles Ramsay (Galway) | Lamb, Ernest H. (Rochester) | Power, Patrick Joseph |
Dickinson, W.H.(St. Pancras, N | Lamont, Norman | Price, C.E.(Edinburgh, Central |
Dickson-Poynder, Sir John P. | Law, Hugh A. (Donegal, W.) | Price, Robert John (Norfolk, E.) |
Dillon. John | Layland-Barratt, Francis | Rainy, A. Holland |
Dodd, W. H. | Lea, Hugh Cecil (St. Pancras, E. | Raphael, Herbert H. |
Dolan, Charles Joseph | Leese, Sir Joseph F. (Accrington | Rea, Russell (Gloucester) |
Donelan, Captain A. | Lehmann, R. C. | Reddy, M. |
Duffy, William J. | Lever, A-Levy(Essex, Harwich) | Redmond, John E. (Waterford) |
Duncan, C.(Barrow-in-Furness | Lewis, John Herbert | Redmond, William (Clare) |
Duncan, J. H. (York, Otley) | Lloyd-George, Rt. Hon. David | Rees, J. D. |
Dunn, A, Edward (Camborne) | Lough, Thomas | Renton, Major Lesie |
Edwards, Clement (Denbigh) | Lundon, W. | Richards, T.F.(Wolverh'mpt'n) |
Erskine, David C. | Lupton, Arnold | Rickett, J. Corapton |
Esmonde, Sir Thomas | Luttrell, Hugh Fownes | Ridsdale, E. A. |
Evans, Samuel T. | Lyell, Charles Henry | Roberts, G. H. (Norwich) |
Everett, R. Lacey | Lynch, H. B. | Robertson, Sir G. Scott (Bradf'rd |
Farrell, James Patrick | Macdonald, J. R. (Leicester) | Roberston, J. M. (Tyneside) |
Ferens, T. R. | Macdonald, J.M.(FalkirkB'ghs | Robinson, S. |
Ferguson, R. C. Munro | Mackarness, Frederic C. | Robson, Sir William Snowdon |
Ffrench, Peter | Mac Veagh,. Jeremiah (Down, S. | Roche John (Galway, East)] |
Flavin, Michael Joseph | MacVeigh, Chas. (Donegal, E.) | Roe, Sir Thomas |
Flynn, James Christopher | M'Crae, George | Rogers, F. E. Newman |
Foster, Rt. Hon. Sir Walter | M'Killop, W. | Rose, Charles Day |
Fuller, John Michael F. | M'Laren, H. D. (Stafford, W.) | Rowlands, J. |
Fullerton, Hugh | M'Micking, Major G. | Russell, T. W. |
Gibb, James (Harrow) | Maddison, Frederick | Rutherford, V. H. (Brentford) |
Samuel, Herbert L. (Cleveland | Stewart, Halley (Greenock) | Wason, John Cathcart (Orkney |
Samuel, S. M. (Whitechapel) | Stewart-Smith, D. (Kendal) | Watt, H. Anderson |
Scarisbrick, T. T. L. | Strachey, Sir Edward | Wedgwood, Josiah C. |
Schwann, C. Duncan (Hyde) | Straus, B. S. (Mile End) | Weir, James Galloway |
Schwann, Chas. E. (Manchester) | Sullivan, Donal | White, J. D. (Dumbartonshire). |
Scott, A.H. (Ashton under Lyne | Sutherland, J. E. | White, Luke (York, E.R.) |
Sears, J. E. | Taylor, Austin (East Toxteth) | White, Patrick (Meath, North) |
Seaverns, J. H. | Taylor, John W. (Durham) | Whitehead, Rowland |
Shackleton, David James | Taylor, Theodore C. (Radcliffe | Whitley, J. H. (Halifax) |
Shaw, Rt. Hon. T. (Hawick, B. | Thomas, Abel (Carmarthen, E.) | Wiles, Thomas |
Shipman, Dr. John G. | Thomas, Sir A. (Glamorgan, E.) | Wilkie, Alexander |
Silcock, Thomas Ball | Tomkinson, James | Williams, Llewelyn (Carmarth'n |
Sinclair, Rt. Hon. John | Torrance, A. M. | Wills, Arthur Walters |
Sloan, Thomas Henry | Toulmin, George | Wilson, Hn. C. H. W. (Hull, W.> |
Smeaton, Donald Mackenzie | Ure. Alexander | Wilson, P. W. (St. Pancras, S.) |
Smyth, Thos. E. (Leitrim, S.) | Verney, F. W. | Wood, T. M'Kinnon |
Snowdon, P. | Walker, H. De R. (Leicester) | Woodhouse, Sir J.T. (Hud'drsf'd |
Soames, Arthur Wellesley | Walters, John Tudor | Young, Samuel |
Stanger, H. Y. | Ward, John (Stoke upon Trent) | |
Stanley, Hn. A. Lyulph (Chesh. | Warner, Thomas Courtenay T. | TELLERS FOR THE AYES—Mr: |
Steadman, W. C. | Wason, Eugene (Clackmannan) | Soares and Mr. Winfrey. |
NOES. | ||
Anstruther-Gray, Major | Fletcher, J. S. | Nussey, Thomas Willans |
Arkwright, John Stanhope | Forster, Henry William | Pease, HerbertPike(Darlington |
Aubrey-Fletcher, Rt. Hn. Sir H. | Gardner, Ernest (Berks, East) | Percy, Earl |
Balcarres, Lord | Gibbs, G. A. (Bristol, West) | Remnant, James Farquharson |
Balfour, Rt. Hn. A. J.(City Lond. | Haddock, George R. | Rothschild, Hon. Lionel Walter |
Balfour, Capt. C. B. (Hornsey) | Hardy, Laurence (Kent, Ashford | Scott, Sir S. (Marylebone, W.) |
Banbury, Sir Frederick George | Hay, Hon. Claude George | Smith, Abel H.(Hertford, East) |
Beach, Hn. Michael Hugh Hicks | Helmsley, Viscount | Starkey, John R. |
Beckett, Hon. Gervase | Hervey, F.W.F.(Bury S. Emd'ds | Stone, Sir Benjamin |
Bignold, Sir Arthur | Hill, Sir Clement(Shrewsbury) | Talbot, Rt. Hn. J. G. (Oxf'dUniv. |
Boyle, Sir Edward | Hill, Henry Staveley (Staff'sh.) | Tennant, Sir Edward(Salisbury |
Bridgeman, W. Clive | Hills, J. W. | Thomson, W. Mitchell-(Lanark) |
Campbell, Rt. Hon. J. H. M. | Hornby, Sir William Henry | Thornton, Percy M. |
Carson, Rt. Hon. Sir Edw. H. | Houston, Robert Paterson | Turnour, Viscount |
Castlereagh, Viscount | Kenyon-Slaney, Rt. Hn. Col. W | Walker, ColW. H. (Lancashire) |
Cave, George | Lambton, Hon. Frederick Wm | Walrond, Hon. Lionel |
Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor) | Lane-Fox, G. R. | Williams, Col. R. (Dorset, W.) |
Cecil, Lord John P. Joicey- | Liddell, Henry | Willoughby de Eresby, Lord |
Cecil, Lord R. (Marylebone, E. | Lockwood, Rt. Hn. Lt.-Col. A.R | Wilson, A. Stanley (York, E. R.) |
Cochrane, Hon. Thos. H. A. E. | Long, Col- Chas. W. (Evesham) | Wolff, Gustav Wilhelm |
Corbett, T. L. (Down, North) | Long, Rt. Hn. Walter (Dublin. S | Wortley, Rt. Hn. C. B. Stuart- |
Courthope, G. Loyd | Lowe. Sir Francis William | Wyndham, Rt. Hn. George |
Craig, Capt. James (Down, E.) | Lyttelton, Rt. Hon. Alfred | Younger, George |
Craik, Sir Henry | Marks, H. H. (Kent) | |
Cross, Alexander | Mason, James F. (Windsor) | TELLERS FOR THE NOES—Siir |
Dalrymple, Viscount | Meysey-Thompson, E. C. | Alexander Acland-Hood and |
Dixon-Hartland, Sir Fred Dixon | Morpeth, Viscount | Viscount Valentia. |
Faber, George Denison (York) | Nicholson Wm. G. (Petersfield | |
Fell, Arthur | Nield, Herbert |
§ Question put accordingly, "That the words of the Bill down to the end of Clause 1 stand part of the Bill."
1328§ The House divided:—Ayes, 290; Noes,. 74. (Division List No. 176.)
Barry, E. (Cork, S.) | Flavin, Michael Joseph | M'Laren, H. D..(Stafford, W.) |
Beale, W. P. | Flynn, James Christopher | M'Micking, Major G. |
Beauchamp, E. | Foster, Rt. Hon. Sir Walter | Maddison, Frederick. |
Beck, A. Cecil | Fuller, John Michael F. | Mallet, Charles E.. |
Bellairs, Carlyton | Fullerton, Hugh | Mansfield, H. Rendall (Lincoln |
Belloc, Hilarie Joseph Peter R. | Gibb, James (Harrow) | Marks, G. Croydon (Launoeston) |
Benn, W.(T'w'r Hamlets, S.Geo. | Ginnell, L. | Marnham, F. J. |
Bennett, E. N. | Greenwood, G. (Peterborough); | Massie, J. |
Bethell, T. R. (Essex Maldon) | Greenwood, Hamar (York) | Meagher, Michael |
Billson, Alfred | Gulland, John W. | Menzies, Walter |
Black, Arthur W. (Bedfordshire) | Haldane, Rt. Hon. Richard B. | Micklem, Nathaniel |
Blake, Edward | Halpin, J. | Molteno, Percy Alport |
Boland, John | Hammond, John | Mond, A. |
Bolton, T. D. (Derbyshire, N.E. | Harmsworth, Cecil B. (Worc'r)i | Montagu, E. S. |
Brace, William | Harrington, Timothy | Montgomery, H. H. |
Branch, James | Harwood, George | Mooney, J. J. |
Bright, J. A. | Haslam, Lewis (Monmouth) | Morrell, Philip |
Brunner, J.F.L. (Lanes., Leigh) | Haworth, Arthur A. | Morton, Alpheus Cleophas |
Brunner, Sir John T. (Cheshire) | Hayden, John Patrick | Murphy, John |
Bryce, J. A.(InvernessBurghs) | Hazel, Dr. A. E. | Murray, James |
Buchanan, Thomas Ryburn | Hazleton, Richard | Myer, Horatio |
Buckmaster, Stanley O. | Healy, Timothy Michael | Napier, T. B. |
Burke, E. Haviland | Hedges, A. Paget | Nicholls, George |
Burns, Rt. Hon. John | Henderson, Arthur (Durham) | Nicholson, Chas. N. (Doncast'r) |
Burnyeat, J. D. W. | Henderson, J. M.(Aberdeen, W.) | Nolan, Joseph |
Burt, Rt. Hon. Thomas | Henry, Charles S. | Norton, Capt. Cecil William |
Byles, William Pollard | Herbert, T. Arnold (Wycombe) | Nussey, Thomas William |
Cairns, Thomas | Higham, John Sharp | Nuttall, Harry |
Cameron, Robert | Hobart, Sir Robert | O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny) |
Causton. Rt. Hn. Richard Knight | Hogan, Michael | O'Brien, William (Cork) |
Cawley, Frederiok | Holden, E. Hopkinson | O'Connor, James (Wicklow. W.), |
Channing, Francis Allston | Hooper, A. G. | O'Connor, John (Kildare, N.) |
Cheetham, John Frederick | Horniman, Emslie John | O'Connor, T. P. (Liverpool) |
Churchill, Winston Spencer | Howard, Hon. Geoffrey | O'Doherty, Philip |
Clarke, C. Goddard | Hutton, Alfred Eddison | O'Donnell, T. (Kerry, W.) |
Cleland, J. W. | Hyde, Clarendon | O'Grady, J. |
Clough, W. | Isaacs, Rufus Daniel | O'Hare, Patrick |
Coats, Sir T. Glen (Renfrew, W. | Jackson, R. S. | O'Malley, William |
Collins, Stephen (Lambeth) | Jones, David Brynmor (Swansea | O'Shaughnessy, P. J. |
Condon, Thomas Joseph | Jones, Leif (Appleby) | Parker, James (Halifax) |
Cooper, G. J. | Jones, William (Carnarvonshire | Partington, Oswald |
Corbett, C.H.(Sussex, E. Grinst'd | Joyce, Michael | Paul, Herbert |
Cornwall, Sir Edwin A. | Kearley, Hudson E. | Pearce, Robert (Staffs. Leek) |
Crean, Eugene | Kekewich, Sir George | Pease, J. A. (Saffron Walden) |
Cremer, William Randal | Kennedy, Vincent Paul | Philipps, Col. Ivor (S'thampton) |
Crombie, John William | Kilbride, Denis | Philipps, J. Wynford (Pembroke) |
Cross, Alexander | Kincaid-Smith, Captain | Philipps, Owen C. (Pembroke) |
Dalziel, James Henry | King, Alfred John (Knutsford) | Power, Patrick Joseph |
Davies, M. Vaughan (Cardigan | Kitson, Sir James | Price, C.E.(Edinburgh, Central) |
Davies, Timothy (Fulham) | Lamb, Ernest H. (Rochester) | Price, Robert John(Norfolk, E.) |
Davies, W. Howell (Bristol, S.) | Lamont, Norman | Rainy, A. Holland |
Delany, William | Law, Hugh A. (Donegal, W.) | Raphael, Herbert H. |
Devlin, Chas. Ramsay (Galway | Layland-Barratt, Francis | Rea, Russell (Gloucester) |
Dickinson, W.H.(St. Pancras, N. | Lea, Hugh Cecil(St. Pancras, E.) | Reddy, M. |
Dickson-Poynder, Sir John P. | Leese, Sir Joseph F.(Accrington | Redmond, John E. (Waterford) |
Dillon, John | Lehmann, R. C. | Redmond, William (Clare) |
Dodd, W. H. | Lever, A. Levy(Essex, Harwich) | Rees, J. D. |
Dolan, Charles Joseph | Lewis, Herbert John | Renton, Major Leslie |
Donelan, Captain A. | Richards, T. F. (Wolverh'mpt'n. | |
Duffy, William J. | Lough, Thomas | Rickett, J, Compton |
Duncan, C. (Barrow-in-Furness | Lundon, W. | Ridsdale, E. A. |
Duncan, J. H. (York, Otley) | Lupton, Arnold | Roberts, G. H. (Norwich) |
Dunn, A. Edward (Camborne) | Luttrell, Hugh Fownes | Robertson, Sir G. Scott(Bradf'rd |
Edwards, Clement (Denbigh) | Lyell, Charles Henry | Robertson, J. M. (Tyneside) |
Erskine, David C. | Macdonald, J. R. (Leicester) | Robinson, S. |
Esmonde, Sir Thomas | Macdonald, J.M.(Falkirk B'ghs) | Robson, Sir William Snowdon |
Evans, Samuel T. | Mackarness, Frederic C. | Roche, John (Galway, East) |
Everett, R. Lacey | MacVeagh, Jeremiah (Down, S. | Roe, Sir Thomas |
Farrell, James Patrick | MacVeigh, Chas. (Donegal, E.) | Rogers, F. E. Newman |
Ferguson, R. C. Munro | M'Crae, George | Rose, Charles Day] |
Ffrench, Peter | M'Killop, W. | Rowlands, J. |
Russell, T. W. | Stanley, Hn. A. Lyulph (Chesh.) | Wason, John Cathcart (Orkney) |
Rutherford, V. H. (Brentford) | Steadman, W. C. | Watt, H. Anderson |
Samuel, Herbert L. (Cleveland) | Stewart, Halley (Greenock) | Wedgwood, Josiah C. |
Samuel, S. M. (Whitechapel) | Stewart-Smith, D. (Kendal) | Weir, James Galloway |
Scarisbrick, T. T. L. | Straus, B. S. (Mile End) | White, J. D. (Dumbartonshire) |
Schwann, C. Duncan (Hyde) | Sullivan, Donal | White, Luke (York, E. R.) |
Schwann, Chas. E.(Manchester) | Sutherland, J. E. | White, Patrick (Meath, North) |
Scott, A.H.(Ashton under Lyne | Taylor, Austin (East Toxteth) | Whitehead, Rowland |
Sears, J. E. | Taylor, John W. (Durham) | Whitley, J. H. (Halifax) |
Seaverns, J. H. | Taylor, Theodore C. (Radcliffe | Wiles, Thomas |
Shackleton, David James | Thomas, Abel (Carmarthen, E.) | Wilkie, Alexander |
Shaw, Rt. Hon. T. (Hawick, B. | Thomas, Sir A. (Glamorgan, E.) | Williams, Llewelyn (Carm'th'n |
Shipman, Dr. John G. | Tomkinson, James | Wills, Arthur Walters |
Silcock, Thomas Ball | Torrance, A. M. | Wilson, Hon. C.H.W. (Hull, W.) |
Sinclair, Rt. Hon. John | Ure, Alexander | Wilson, P. W. (St. Pancras, S.) |
Sloan, Thomas Henry | Verney, F. W. | Wood, T. M'Kinnon |
Smeaton, Donald Mackenzie | Walker, H. De R. (Leicester) | Woodhouse, Sir J.T.(Huddersf'd |
Smyth, Thomas F. (Leitrim, S.) | Walters, John Tudor | Young, Samuel |
Snowdon, P. | Ward, John(Stoke upon Trent) | |
Soames, Arthur Wellesley | Warner, Thomas Courtenay T. | TELLERS FOR THE AYES—Mr. |
, Stanger, H. Y. | Wason, Eugene (Clackmannan) | Soares and Mr. Winfrey. |
NOES. | ||
Acland-Hood, Rt Hn. Sir Alex. F. | Fell, Arthur | Pease, HerbertPike (Darlington |
Anstruther-Gray, Major | Fletcher, J. S. | Percy, Earl |
Arkwright, John Stanhope | Forster, Henry William | Remnant, James Farquharson |
Aubrey-Fletcher, Rt. Hn. Sir H. | Gardner, Ernest (Berks, East) | Rothschild, Hon. Lionel Walter |
Balcarres, Lord | Gibbs, G. A. (Bristol, West) | Scott, Sir S. (Marylebone, W.) |
Balfour, Rt. Hn. A.J. (CityLond. | Haddock, George R. | Starkey, John R. |
Banbury, Sir Frederick George | Hardy, Laurence (Kent, Ashford | Stone, Sir Benjamin |
Beckett, Hon. Gervase | Hay, Hon. Claude George | Talbot, Rt. Hn. J.G. (Oxf'dUniv. |
Bignold, Sir Arthur | Helmsley, Viscount | Tennant, Sir Edward(Salisbury) |
Boyle, Sir Edward | Hervey, F.W.F.(BuryS.Edm'ds | Thomson, W. Mitchell-(Lanark) |
Bridgeman, W. Clive | Hill, Sir Clement (Shrewsbury) | Thornton, Percy M. |
Campbell, Rt. Hon. J. H. M. | Hills, J. W. | Turnour, Viscount |
Carson, Rt. Hon. Sir Edw. H. | Hornby, Sir Willian Henry | Valentia, Viscount |
Castlereagh, Viscount | Houston, Robert Paterson] | Walker, Col. W.H.(Lancashire) |
Cave, George | Kenyon-Slaney. Rt. Hon. Col. W. | Walrond, Hon. Lionel |
Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor) | Lambton, Hon. Frederick Wm. | Williams, Col. R. (Dorset, W.) |
Cecil, Lord John P. Joicey | Lane-Fox, G. R. | Willoughby, de Eresby Lord. |
Cecil, Lord R. (Marylebone, E.) | Liddell, Henry | Wilson, Stanley A.(York, E.R.) |
Cochrane, Hon. Thos. H. A. E. | Lockwood, Rt. Hn. Lt.-Col. A.R. | Wolff, Gustav Wilhelm |
Corbett, T. L. (Down, North) | Long, Rt. Hn. Walter (Dublin, S. | Wortley, Rt. Hon. C. B. Stuart- |
Courthope, G. Loyd | Lowe, Sir Francis William | Wyndham, Rt. Hon. George |
Craig, Capt. James (Down, E.) | Marks, H. H. (Kent) | Younger, George |
Craik, Sir Henry | Mason, James F. (Winsdor) | |
Dalrymple, Viscount | Meysey-Thompson, E. C. | TELLERS FOR THE NOES—Mr. |
Dixon-Hartland, Sir FredDixon | Nicholson, Wm. G. (Petersfield) | Hicks Beach and Viscount |
Faber, George Denison (York) | Nield, Herbert | Morpeth. |
§ And, it being after Five of the clock, further consideration of the Bill, as amended, stood adjourned.
§ Bill, as amended (by the Standing Committee), to be further considered upon Wednesday next.
1332§ Whereupon Mr. SPEAKER, in pursuance of Standing Order No. 3, adjourned the House without Question put.
§ Adjourned at twenty-one minutes after Five o'clock till Monday next.