§ MR. DILLONI beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland whether it is proposed to take any portion of the sum to be voted for school building grants in Ireland out of the Development Grant.
MR. BRYCEI beg to refer the hon. Member to the Ireland Development Grant Estimate for the current year, from which it will be seen that a sum of £15,000 has been voted for national school buildings. It is explained in the note to Sub-head C that this amount is the first instalment of the grant of £70,000 from the Ireland Development Grant towards the cost of rebuilding necessitous national schools, and this sum is supplementary to the provision for National Education buildings made by the ordinary Estimates. As to the latter, a vote of £20,000 has been taken for the current year, under Class I., Vote 14, Public Works and Buildings.
§ MR. DILLONIs the right hon. Gentleman aware that when the Development Grant was sot up a promise was made to the Irish Party that they should be consulted as to its application. Has that promise been carried out?
MR. BRYCEsaid that happened in the days of his last predecessor but one. He was doing his best to apply the grant to the most useful purposes.
§ MR. DILLONI beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord-lieutenant of Ireland whether, in view of the peculiar circumstances of the case and the intense interest which has for a long time existed in Ireland on the question of school building grants, he will consent to lay upon the Table the Report of the Committee which sat on this subject in 1902, and the correspondence which has passed between the Treasury, the Irish Government, and the Commissioners for National Education for Ireland, on the subject of school building grants from 1900 to the present date.
§ THE SECRETARY TO THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT BOARD (Mr. RUNCIMAN, Dewsbury, for Mr. MCKENNA)The Report referred to was a confidential document prepared for the information of the Treasury. The late Government decided that no action should be taken upon it and that there would be no advantage in publishing it. In all the circumstances my hon. friend sees no reason for varying this decision. For a similar reason he is not prepared to lay on the Table the correspondence since 1900, especially as much of it is now out of date and its publication would not, in his opinion, serve any useful purpose.
§ MR. DILLONI should like to ask the Chief Secretary if the Irish Government have any power whatever over this matter of Irish education, or are we to be oppressed and our schools ruined by the Treasury?
MR. BRYCEThe Irish Government, so far from being indifferent, have been giving constant attention to this matter. Hardly a week passes without it engaging our attention.
§ MR. DILLONI did not say the Irish Government were indifferent. I asked if they were powerless? Do they accept the responsibility for the present situation in Ireland in this matter?
MR. BRYCEThe hon. Gentleman knows perfectly well that the National Board have asked for money, and that the Irish Government have endorsed their request, but that the ultimate decision rests with the Treasury.
§ MR. DILLONWith the result that for ten years our schools have been falling into ruins. It is an absolutely intolerable state of things.
§ MR. DILLONI beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord-Lieutenant of Ireland whether his attention has been called to that portion of the Report of the Commissioners of National Education in Ireland, which deals with schoolbuilding grants, in which it is stated that the controversy on this subject between the National Board and the Treasury has now lasted for ten years, that the present position is deplorable, and that it would require a sum of £100,000 annually for 948 five years to enable the Board to deal with the large number of cases that have accumulated in consequence of the practical suspension of grants for the last four years; and whether, in view of the feeling which has been aroused in Ireland on this matter, he will make a full statement of the present situation, including the amounts which the Treasury has agreed to place on the Estimates for school-building grants during the next four years.
§ MR. RUNCIMANI understand that my hon. friend has seen the statement in the Report of the Commissioners of National Education referred to, but he is not aware of the basis of the figure given. The present position is that the suggestions of the National Education Board as regards standard plans for the future have been received by the Treasury through the Irish Government, and are now being examined on behalf of the Treasury. In the meantime the Commissioners have authority to submit urgent cases, with details of requirements in each case, for consideration on their merits. The statement that the grants have practically been suspended for the last four years cannot by admitted, as the figures of expenditure are: 1902–3, £33,280; 1903–4, £13,142; 1904–5, £18,785; 1905–6, £28,007. Provision is also made in the Estimates of the current year for £20,000, in addition to £15,000 from the Development Grant. The Treasury has agreed, on the representation of the Irish Government, to place a sum of £40,000 for this purpose on the Estimate for Public Works and Buildings, Ireland, 1907–8, but the amount of the provision for later years has not been decided on.
§ * MR. DOLAN (Leitrim, N.)pointed out that while £1,500,000 was spent annually on the police in Ireland only £1,500,000 went to education, whereas in England only £2,500,000 was expended on police, and £13,000,000 on education.