HC Deb 27 June 1905 vol 148 cc337-45

Read a second time, and committed.

MR WOOD (Down, E.)

moved—That it be an Instruction to the Com mittee to insert a clause for the protection of James M. Thomson or other the owner for the time being of the property known as Martello, providing that nothing in the Act shall empower the council to interfere with any right of access from the said property to the seashore, and further providing that nothing in the Act shall authorise the council to erect any buildings on the slopes within a distance of fifty yards from any part of the said property, and that the said portion of the slopes shall not be used for any purposes other than a permanent garden or esplanade." Mr. Thomson appeared before the Committee, but unfortunately he was not represented by counsel. He did not know of any reasonable objection to the adoption of this instruction, which could do the promoters of the Bill no harm, and there were already in the Bill special provisions in regard to other property.


Speak up; we cannot hear a word you are saying.


said that when Mr. Thomson built his property he had the assurance of the ground landlord that the slopes would be left open and that no buildings would be erected upon them, and in view of that promise Mr. Thomson erected his buildings. Now it was proposed under this Bill to abolish all those safeguards, and the council of Bangor would be permitted by this Bill to erect any building upon these slopes to the prejudice of Mr. Thomson's property. He begged to move the instruction standing in his name.

Motion made, and Question proposed, "That it be an Instruction to the Committee to insert a clause for the protection of James M. Thomson or other the owner for the time being of the property known as Martello, providing that nothing in the Act shall empower the council to interfere with any right of access from the said property to the seashore, and further providing that nothing in the Act shall authorise the council to erect any buildings on the slopes within a distance of fifty yards from any part of the said property, and that the said portion of the slopes shall not be used for any purposes other than a permanent garden or esplanade."—(Mr, Wood.)

MR. T. L. CORBETT (Down, N.)

thought it would have been better if upon one of the rare appearances of the hon. Member for East Down he had devoted his time and ability to a more worthy cause than opposing a Bill which had been unanimously approved of by the Bangor District Urban Council.


said it had not been approved of by a majority of the people of Bangor.


said it had been approved of by the urban council after an election which had taken place upon this very issue.


It is not so.


said Bangor happened to be in his own constituency, and he happened to know a little more about it than the hon. Member. He repeated, without fear of contradiction, except from the hon. Member opposite, that this Bill was unanimously approved of by the Urban District Council of Bangor after an election which took place upon the very issues involved in this Bill. This was an omnibus Bill dealing with the water and gas supply, road widening, and the provision of a recreation ground in the prosperous and growing town of Bangor. It seemed to him absolutely absurd that the House should be asked to discuss one small item like this instruction, and he should be merely wasting the time of the House if he attempted to deal with it. This particular case had already been considered by a Committee of the House of Lords, and had the hon. Member wished he could have brought it before the Committee of the House of Commons by petition. He was sure that the House would agree with him in saying that for them to discuss a minute detail of this kind would be a pure waste of time.

MR. T. W. RUSSELL (Tyrone, S.)

said that at the risk of being charged with wasting the time of the House he would venture to say a few words, upon this point. He hoped it would be noted that they had allowed the Bill to pass its Second Reading without a division. The real question was that a constituent of the hon. Member for East Down thought that part of this Bill would injure him, and as he was not a wealthy man he had not been able to have his case presented by counsel. He appeared before the Committee of the House of Lords, and they were so impressed by his case that they put in a clause to protect his interests, but his contention was that this clause did not protect his interests, and the hon. Member opposite wished that the case which was admitted by the Lords should go to the Committee of the House of Commons with the direction that this man's interests should be seen to. Why should the hon. Member for North Down object to that? This man's property might be ruined by something which this urban council might do. Was it to be left to him now to protect the rights of the landlords? The House of Lords had admitted the justice of this man's claim, and he desired to come before the Committee of the House of Commons. Consequently the hon. Member for East Down thought an instruction

should be passed to this effect. Although this was only the case of an individual he could assure the hon. Member for North Down that great constitutional questions had been fought over the rights of a single individual.


expressed the view that the matter had better be left entirely to the Committee which dealt with the Bill.

Question put.

The House divided:—Ayes, 125; Noes, 223. (Division List No. 216.)

Abraham, William (Cork, N. E.) Guest, Hon. Ivor Churchill O'Donnell, T. (Kerry, W.)
Ainsworth, John Stirling Gurdon, Sir W. Brampton O'Dowd, John
Atherley-Jones, L. Haldane, Rt. Hon. Richard B. O'Kelly, Conor (Mayo, N.)
Barry, E. (Cork, S.) Hammond, John O'Kelly, James(Roscommon, N
Boland, John Hardie, J. Keir(Merthyr Tydvil O'Malley, William
Bolton, Thomas Dolling Harmsworth, R. Leicester O'Mara, James
Brigg, John Harrington, Timothy O'Shaughnessy, P. J.
Broadhurst, Henry Hayden, John Patrick Partington, Oswald
Burns, John Hemphill, Rt. Hon. Charles H. Pease, J. A. (Saffron Walden)
Buxton, NE(York, NR, Whitby) Henderson, Arthur (Durham) Power, Patrick Joseph
Caldwell, James Hope, John Deans (Fife, West) Priestley, Arthur
Campbell, John (Armagh, S.) Hutton, Alfred E. (Morley) Reddy, M.
Channing, Francis Allston Jones, Leif (Appleby) Redmond, John E. (Waterford)
Cheetham, John Frederick Jordan, Jeremiah Richards, Thomas
Churchill, Winston Spencer Joyce, Micheal Rickett, J. Compton
Cogan, Denis J. Kennedy, P. J. (Westmeath, N. Roberts, John H. (Denbighs.)
Condon, Thomas Joseph Kennedy, Vincent P. (Cavan, W Roche, John
Crean, Eugene Kilbride, Denis Rose, Charles Day
Cramer, William Randal Langley, Batty Seely, Maj. J. EB. (Isle of Wight
Cullinan, J. Lawson, Sir Wilfrid (Cornwall) Sheehan, Daniel Daniel
Dalziel, James Henry Leigh, Sir Joseph Sheehy, David
Delany, William Levy, Maurice Shipman, Dr. John G.
Devlin, Chas. Ramsay (Galway Lewis, John Herbert Slack, John Bamford
Devlin, Joseph (Kilkenny, N.) Lough, Thomas Sullivan, Donal
Dobbie, Joseph Lundon, W. Taylor, Theodore C. (Radcliffe)
Donelan, Captain A. MacNeill, John Gordon Swift Tennant, Harold John
Doogan, P. C. MacVeagh, Jeremiah Thomson, F. W. (York, W. R.)
Douglas, Charles M. (Lanark) M'Kean, John Trevelyan, Charles Philips
Duncan, J. Hastings M'Kenna, Reginald Ure, Alexander
Edwards, Frank M'Killop, W. (Sligo, North) Villiers, Ernest Amherst
Ellice, CaptEC(S. Andrw's Bghs Mansfield, Horace Rendall Warner, Thomas Courtenay T.
Evans. Sir Francis H (Maidstone Mitchell, Edw. (Fermanagh, N.) Wason, Eugene (Clackmannan)
Eve, Harry Trelawney Murphy, John White, George (Norfolk)
Farrell, James Patrick Nannetti, Joseph P. White, Luke (York, E. R.)
Fenwick, Charles Nolan, Joseph (Louth, South) White, Patrick (Meath, North)
Ffrench, Peter Nussey, Thomas Willans Whiteley, George (York, W. R.)
Field, William O'Brien, Kendal(Tipperary Mid Wilson, Henry J. (York, W. R.)
Findlay, Alexander(Lanark, NE O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny) Wilson, John (Durham. Mid.)
Flavin, Michael Joseph O'Brien, P. J. (Tipperary, N.) Young, Samuel
Foster, Sir Michael(Lond. Univ. O'Connor, James (Wicklow, W.
Furness, Sir Christopher O'Connor, John (Kildare, N.) TELLERS FOR THE AYES—Mr. Wood and Mr. T. W. Russell
Gilhooly, James O'Connor, T. P. (Liverpool)
Goddard, Daniel Ford O'Donnell, John (Mayo, S.)
Acland-Hood, Capt. Sir Alex. F. Gardner, Ernest Moon, Edward Robert Pacy
Agg-Gardner, James Tynte Gibbs, Hon. A. G. H. Morgan, DavidJ. (Walthamstow
Agnew, Sir Andrew Noel Godson. Sir Augustus Frederick Morgan, J. Lloyd (Carmarthen)
Allen, Charles P. Gordon, Hn. J. E. (Elgin & Nairn) Morpeth, Viscount
Allhusen, Augustus Henry Eden Gordon, J. (Londonderry, S.) Morrell, George Herbert
Arkwright, John Stanhope Graham, Henry Robert Morton, Arthur H. Aylmer
Arnold-Forster, RtHn. HughO. Gray, Ernest (West Ham) Mount, William Arthur
Arrol, Sir William Green, WalfordD. (Wednesbury Mowbray, Sir Robert Gray C.
Ashton, Thomas Gair Greene, W. Raymond (Cambs.) Muntz, Sir Philip A.
Asquith, Rt. Hn. Herbert Henry Grenfell, William Henry Murray, Charles J. (Coventry)
Atkinson, Rt. Hon. John Guthrie, Walter Murray Murray, Col. Wyndham (Bath)
Aubrey-Fletcher, Rt. Hn. Sir H. Hamilton, RtHnLordG. (Midd'x Nicholson, William Graham
Bailey, James (Walworth) Hamilton, Marq. of(L'nd'nderry O'Neill, Hon. Robert Torrens
Bain, Colonel James Robert Hardy, Laurence(Kent, Ashford Parker, Sir Gilbert
Baird, John George Alexander Hare, Thomas Leigh Peel, Hn. Wm. Robert Wollesley
Balcarres, Lord Harwood, George Pemberton, John S. G.
Balfour, Capt. C. B. (Hornsey) Hay, Hon. Claude George Percy, Earl
Balfour, RtHnGeraldW. (Leeds Heath, Arthur Howard(Hanley Perks, Robert William
Balfour, Kenneth R. (Christch. Heath, Sir James(Staffords. NW Philipps, Jolm Wynford
Banbury, Sir Frederick George Helder, Augustus Platt-Higgins, Frederick
Banner, John S. Harmood- Helme, Norval Watson Plummer, Sir Walter R.
Benn, John Williams Henderson, Sir A. (Stafford, W.) Pretyman, Ernest George
Bentinck, Lord Henry C. Hermon-Hodge, Sir Robert T. Pryce-Jones, Lt.-Col. Edward
Bignold, Sir Arthur Hickman, Sir Alfred Purvis, Robert
Bigwood, James Hogg, Lindsay Rankin, Sir James
Bill, Charles Hope, J. F. (Sheffield, Brightside Rasch, Sir Frederick Carne
Bingham, Lord Howard, John(Kent, Faversham Reid, James (Greenock)
Black, Alexander William Hudson, George Bickersteth Remnant, James Farquharson
Blundell, Colonel Henry Hunt, Rowland Renshaw, Sir Charles Bine
Bond, Edward Hutchinson, Dr. Charles Fredk. Ridley, S. Forde
Bright, Allan Heywood Jebb, Sir Richard Claverhouse Roberts, Samuel (Sheffield)
Brodrick, Rt. Hon. St. John Jeffreys, Rt. Hn. Arthur Fred. Robertson, Herbert (Hackney)
Bryce, Rt. Hon. James Kennaway, Rt. Hn. Sir JohnH. Robson, William Snowdon
Brymer, William Ernest Kenyon-Slaney, Rt. Hn. Col. W. Rolleston, Sir John F. L.
Buchanan, Thomas Ryburn Keswick, William Ropner, Colonel Sir Robert
Bull, William James Lamont, Norman Round, Rt. Hon. James
Buxton, Sydney Charles(Poplar Laurie, Lieut.-General Royds, Clement Molyneux
Campbell, J. H. M. (DublinUniv. Law, Andrew Bonar (Glasgow) Runciman, Walter
Carson, Rt Hon. Sir Edw. H. Law, Hugh Alex. (Donegal, W.) Rutherford, John (Lancashire)
Causton, Richard Knight Lawrence, Sir Joseph(Monm'th) Rutherford, W. W. (Liverpool)
Cautley, Henry Strother Lawson, Hn. HL. W. (Mile End) Sackville, Col. S. G. Stopford
Cavendish, V. C. W. (Derbyshire Lawson, John Grant(Yorks. N. R Sadler, Col. Samuel Alexander
Cawley, Frederick Layland-Barratt, Francis Samuel, Herbert L. (Cleveland)
Chamberlain, RtHn. J. A. (Worc. Lee, ArthurH. (Hants, Fareham Sandys, Lieut.-Col. Thos. Myles
Chapman, Edward Legge, Col. Hon. Heneage Sharpe, William Edward T.
Clive, Captain Percy A. Leveson-Gower, Frederick N. S. Sinclair, Louis (Romford)
Coates, Edward Feetham Long. Col. Charles W. (Evesham Skewes-Cox, Thomas
Cochrane, Hon. Thos. H. A. E. Long. Rt. Hn. Walter(Bristol, S) Smith, H. C(North'mb. Tyneside
Coghill, Douglas Harry Lowe, Francis William Smith, Samuel (Flint)
Compton, Lord Alwyne Loyd, Archie Kirkman Smith, Hon. W. F. D. (Strand)
Corbett, A. Cameron (Glasgow) Lucas, Col. Francis (Lowestoft) Soares, Ernest J.
Crombie, John William Macdona, John Cumming Spear, John Ward
Cross, Alexander (Glasgow) MacIver, David (Liverpool) Spencer, Rt, Hn. C. R. (Northants
Cross, Herb. Shepherd (Bolton) M'Arthur, Charles (Liverpool) Stanley, Rt. Hn. Lord (Lancs.)
Davenport, William Bromley M'Calmont, Colonel James Stewart, Sir Mark J. M'Taggart
Denny, Colonel M'Crae, George Stock, James Henry
Dickson, Charles Scott M'lver, Sir Lewis(Edinburgh, W Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester)
Dimsdale, Rt. Hn. Sir Joseph C. M'Killop, James (Stirlingshire) Taylor, Austin (East Toxteth)
Doughty, Sir George Malcolm, Ian Thomas, David Alfred(Merthyr)
Douglas, Rt. Hon. A. Akers- Manners, Lord Cecil Thornton, Percy M.
Doxford, Sir William Theodore Markham, Arthur Basil Tollemache, Henry James
Dyke, Rt. Hn. Sir WilliamHart Marks, Harry Hananel Tomkinson, James
Emmott, Alfred Martin, Richard Biddulph Tomlinson, Sir Wm. Edw. M.
Fellowes RtHn. Ailwyn Edward Maxwell, RtHnSir H. E. (Wigt'n Tritton, Charles Ernest
Finch, Rt. Hon. George H. Maxwell, W. J. H (Dumfriesshire Tuff, Charles
Finlay, Sir R. B. (Inv'rn'ssB'ghs Middlemore, John Throgmorton Turnour, Viscount
Fitzmaurice, Lord Edmond Milner, Rt. Hn. Sir Frederick G. Valentia, Viscount
Forster, Henry William Milvain, Thomas Vincent, Sir Edgar (Exeter)
Fuller, J. M. F. Molesworth, Sir Lewis Walrond, Rt. Hn. Sir William H.
Galloway, William Johnson Montagu, Hn. J. Scott (Hants.) Welby Lt.-Col. A. C. E. (Taunton
Whiteley, H. (Ashton und. Lyne Wilson, J. W. (Worcestersh. N.) Younger, William
Whitley, J. H. (Halifax) Wodehouse, Rt. Hn. E. R. (Bath)
Whittaker, Thomas Palmer Wolff, Gustav Wilhelm TELLERS FOR THE NOES—Mr. Thomas Corbett and Mr. Sloan
Williams, Colonel R. (Dorset Wrightson, Sir Thomas
Wilson, A. Stanley (York, E. R.) Wylie, Alexander
Wilson, John (Falkirk) Wyndham-Quin, Col. W. H.
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