HC Deb 21 June 1905 vol 147 cc1226-9

Considered in Committee.

(In the Committee.)

[Mr. GRANT LAWSON (Yorkshire, N.R., Thirsk) in the Chair.]

Motion made, and Question proposed, "That the annual sum of £4,000 net be granted to His Majesty out of the Consolidated Fund of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, the said annuity to commence and take effect upon the day upon which the right hon. William Court Gully, late Speaker of the House of Commons, ceased to hold the office of Speaker of the House of Commons, to be settled in the most beneficial manner upon, and to continue during the life of, him the said right hon. William Court Gully."—(Mr. A. J. Balfour.)

MR. KEIR HARDIE> (Merthyr Tydvil)

moved to reduce the sum of £4,000 to £1,000. He wished to make it perfectly clear that he was animated by no personal feeling. Had he been present when the tributes were paid to the late Speaker he could have agreed with every word then spoken and every sentiment given expression to. But £4,000 was too much for one individual, and any sum was too much to pay to an official of that House so long as they could not find any sum, however small, to vote as pensions to aged workmen, of whom there were thousands—to whom the remark made of the Speaker that he had earned his pension by the performance of his duty equally applied. The other day some 500 men marched from Leicester to London in search of work. Out of the number 164 were ex-Army men, for whom no pensions had been provided. If it was to be a question of granting pensions to public servants only as distinct from ordinary civil workmen surely an ex-soldier was entitled to rank equally with an ex-Speaker. Ten years ago, when a similar Motion was made on the retirement of Mr. Speaker Peel, he said at the outset that it was a very disagreeble duty he had to perform. It was equally so that day, but it was a duty that had to be done and which would have to be done more frequently in the future than in the past. In order to mark his opinion that a pension of £4,000 was too much to be paid to an ex-official of that House, so long as working people outside got no pension at all, he begged

to move the substitution of £1,000 for £4,000.

Amendment proposed—

"To leave out "£4,000," and insert "£1,000."—(Mr. Keir Hardie)

Question put, "That '£4,000' stand part of the Question."

The Committee divided:—Ayes, 245; Noes, 17. (Division List No. 201.)

Agg-Gardner, James Tynte Dalkeith, Earl of Hermon-Hodge, Sir Robert T.
Agnew, Sir Andrew Noel Dalrymple, Sir Charles Higham, John Sharp
Ainsworth, John Stirling Davenport, William Bromley Hoarc, Sir Samuel
Allhusen, Augustus Henry E. Davies, Alfred (Carmarthen) Hobhouse, Rt Hn H (Somers't, E.
Allsopp, Hon. George Davies, M. Vaughan (Cardigan Hogg, Lindsay
Anson, Sir William Reynell Denny, Colonel Holland, Sir William Henry
Arnold-Forster, Rt. Hn. H. O. Dewar, John A (Inverness-shire Hope, J. F. (Sheffield, Brightside
Arrol, Sir William Dickson, Charles Scott Hornby, Sir William Henry
Atkinson, Rt. Hon. John Douglas, Rt. Hon. A. Akers- Horniman, Frederick John
Aubrey-Fletcher, Rt. Hon. Sir H Douglas, Charles M. (Lanark) Houldsworth, Sir Wm. Henry
Bagot, Capt. Josceline Fitz Roy Doxford, Sir William Theodore Howard, J (Midd, Tottenham)
Bailey, James (Walworth) Duke, Henry Edward Hozier, Hn. James Henry C.
Bain, Colonel James Robert Duncan, J. Hastings Isaacs, Rufus Daniel
Balcarres, Lord Dyke, Rt. Hn. Sir Wm. Hart Jacoby, James Alfred
Balfour, Rt. Hn. A. J. (Manch'r Edwards, Frank Jebb, Sir Richard Claverhouse
Balfour, Capt. C. B. (Hornsey) Egerton, Hon. A. de Tatton Jones, D. Brynmor (Swansea)
Balfour, Rt. Hn. G. W. (Leeds) Elliot, Hon. A. Ralph Douglas Kennaway, Rt. Hn. Sir John H
Balfour, Kenneth R. (Christch. Emmott, Alfred Keswick, William
Banner, John S. Harmood- Evans, Sir F. H. (Maidstone) Kimber, Sir Henry
Bentinck, Lord Henry C. Fellowes, Rt. Hn. Ailwyn Edw. Kitson, Sir James
Bhownaggree, Sir M. M. Fenwick, Charles Knowles, Sir Lees
Blake, Edward Fergusson, Rt. Hn Sir J. (Manc'r Labouchere, Henry
Blundell, Colonel Henry Finch, Rt. Hon. George H. Lambton, Hn. Fredk. Wm.
Bond, Edward Findlay, Alex. (Lanark, N. E.) Lamont, Norman
Boulnois, Edmund Finlay, Sir R. B (Inv'rn'ss B'ghs Langley, Batty
Brassey, Albert Fisher, William Hayes Laurie, Lieut.-General
Brodrick, Rt. Hon. St. John FitzGerald, Sir Robert Penrose Law, Andrew Bonar (Glasgow)
Brown, George M. (Edinburgh Fitzmaurice, Lord Edmond Lawson, Sir Wilfrid (Cornwall)
Brunner, Sir John Tomlinson Flannery, Sir Fortescue Lee, A. H. (Hants, Fareham)
Bryce, Rt. Hon. James Flower, Sir Ernest Lees, Sir Elliott (Birkenhead
Buchanan, Thomas Ryburn Forster, Henry William Leese, Sir J. F. (Accrington)
Bull, William James Fowler, Rt. Hon. Sir Henry Legge, Col. Hon. Heneage
Burt, Thomas Freeman-Thomas, Captain F. Llewellyn, Evan Henry
Caldwell, James Galloway, William Johnson Long, Col. Chas. W. (Evesham
Campbell, Rt. Hn. J A (Glasgow Gardner, Ernest Long, Rt. Hn. Walter (Bristol, S
Campbell, J. (Armagh, S.) Garfit, William Lonsdale, John Brownlee
Campbell-Bannerman, Sir H. Godson, Sir Augustus Fredk. Lough, Thomas
Carson, Rt. Hn. Sir Edw. H. Gordon, Hn. J. E (Elgin & Nairn Lucas, Col. Francis (Lowestoft
Causton, Richard Knight Gordon, Maj Evans (T'rH'mlets Lucas, Reginald J (Portsmouth
Cavendish, V. C. W. (Derbysh. Gore, Hon. S. F. Ormsby Lyell, Charles Henry
Cawley, Frederick Greene, Sir E W (B'ry S Edm'nds Lyttelton, Rt. Hon. Alfred
Chamberlain, Rt Hn J A (Worc.) Greene, Henry D. (Shrewsbury Macdona, John Cumming
Chapman, Edward Hamilton, Rt. Hn. Lord G (Mid'x MacIver, David (Liverpool)
Cheetham, John Frederick Hamilton, Marq of (L'nd'nderry M'Arthur, Chas. (Liverpool)
Churchill, Winston Spencer Harcourt, Lewis M'Iver, Sir Lewis (Edinburgh, W
Clive, Captain Percy A. Hardy, Laurence (Kent, Ashford M'Killop, James (Stirlingshir
Cochrane, Hon. Thos. H. A. E. Hare, Thomas Leigh Majendie, James A. H.
Cohen, Benjamin Louis Harris, F. Leverton (Tynem'th Malcolm, Ian
Corbett, A. Cameron (Glasgow) Haslam, Sir Alfred S. Marks, Harry Hananel
Corbett, T. L. (Down, North) Hayter, Rt. Hn. Sir Arthur D. Melville, Beresford Valentine
Craig, Chas. Curtis (Antrim, S. Heaton, John Henniker Middlemore, J. Throgmorton
Craig, Robert Hunter (Lanark Helder, Augustus Milvain, Thomas
Cross, Herb. Shepherd (Bolton Helme, Norval Watson Mitchell, Wm. (Burnley)
Montagu, Hn. J. Scott (Hants.) Ritchie, Rt. Hn. Chas. Thomson Trevelyan, Charles Philips
Moon, Edward Robert Pacy Roberts, John H. (Denbighs) Tufnell, Lieut.-Col. Edward
Morley, Rt. Hn. John (Montrose Roberts, Samuel (Sheffield) Turnour, Viscount
Morrison, James Archibald Robertson, Herbert (Hackney) Valentia, Viscount
Morton, Arthur H. Aylmer Rollit, Sir Albert Kaye Waldron, Laurence Ambrose
Mount, William Arthur Rose, Charles Day Walrond, Rt. Hn. Sir Wm. H.
Mowbray, Sir Robert Gray C. Rothschild, Hn. Lionel Walter Walton, John Lawson(Leeds, S
Murray, Chas. J. (Coventry) Runciman, Walter Walton, Joseph (Barnsley)
Myers, William Henry Russell, T. W. Warde, (Colonel C. E.
Nicholson, William Graham Sackville, Col. S. G. Stopford Wason, Eugene (Clackmannan
Nussey, Thomas Willans Sadler, Col. S. Alexander Wason, John Cathcart (Orkney
O'Malley, William Samuel, Sir H. S. (Limehouse) Welby, Lt-Col A. C. E. (Taunton
O'Neill, Hon. Robert Torrens Samuel, Herb. L. (Cleveland) Welby, Sir Chas. G. E. (Notts.)
Paulton, James Mellor Seely, Maj. J. E. B. (Isle of Wight Wharton, Rt. Hn. John Lloyd
Pearson, Sir Weetman D. Sharpe, Wm. Edward T. White, Luke (York, E. R.)
Peel, Hn. Wm. R. Wellesley Shipman, Dr. John G. Williams, Osmond (Merioneth)
Pemberton, John S. G. Sinclair, John (Forfarshire) Wilson, H. J. (York, W. R.)
Percy, Earl Smith, Samuel (Flint) Wilson, John (Falkirk)
Pierpoint, Robert Soares, Ernest J. Wilson, John (Glasgow)
Pilkington, Colonel Richard Spencer, Rt. Hn C. R (Northants Wilson, J. W. (Worcestersh. N.
Pirie, Duncan V. Stanley, Edw. Jas. (Somerset) Woodhouse, Sir J T (Huddersf'd
Plummer, Sir Walter R. Stanley, Rt. Hon. Lord (Lancs. Wortley, Rt. Hn. C. B. Stuart
Powell, Sir Francis Sharp Sullivan, Donal Wrightson, Sir Thomas
Pretyman, Ernest George Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester) Wylie, Alexander
Purvis, Robert Taylor, Theodore C. (Radcliffe) Wyndham-Quin, Col. W. H.
Randles, John S. Tennant, Harold John Younger, William
Rasch, Sir Frederic Carne Thomas, David Alfred (Merthyr
Reid, Sir R. Threshie (Dumfries Thornton, Percy M. TELLERS FOR THE AYES—Sir
Remnant, James Farquharson Tomlinson, Sir Wm. Edw. M. Alexander Acland-Hood and
Renshaw, Sir Charles Bine Toulmin, George Mr. Herbert Gladstone.
Abraham, Wm. (Cork, N. E.) Henderson, Arthur (Durham) Parrott, William
Abraham, William (Rhondda) MacVeagh, Jeremiah Richards, Thomas
Burke, E. Haviland Nolan, Col. J. P. (Galway, N.) Shackleton, David James
Crooks, William O'Brien, K. (Tipperary, Mid.)
Delany, William O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny) TELLERS FOR THE NOES—Mr.
Donelan, Captain A. O'Connor, Jas. Wicklow, W.) Keir Hardie and Mr. Nan
Doogan, P. C. O'Connor, John (Kildare, N.) netti.

Main Question put, and agreed to.

Resolution to be reported to-morrow.

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