HC Deb 31 July 1905 vol 150 cc1018-31

Order read, for resuming adjourned debate on Question [31st July], "That, for the remainder of the session Government Business be not interrupted, except at half-past Seven of the clock at an Afternoon Sitting, under the provisions of any Standing Order regulating the Sittings of the House, and may be entered upon at any hour though opposed; that at the conclusion of Government Business each day Mr. Speaker do adjourn the House without Question put, and that no Motion be made for leave to bring in Bills under Standing Order No. 11."—(Mr. A. J. Balfour.)

Question again proposed.

SIR ALBERT ROLLIT (Islington, S.)

said he desired to say a few words on the subject of this debate, especially in relation to the Unemployed Bill, lest silence on the Unionist side of the House should be construed as an admission of the truth of what had been stated by hon. Gentlemen opposite that those on the Unionist side were hostile or indifferent to the passage of this Bill. He expressed his approval of the Unemployed Workmen Bill, which, enacted in its original form, he believed would prove beneficial to all classes in the country. Experience on the Mansion House Committee had convinced him that the adoption of a system of farm colonies and similar labour works presented a reasonable prospect of a solution of the unemployed problem, and he knew many Members of that House who had taken part in the deliberations of the Mansion House Committee who had come to a similar conclusion. While the experiment had been as a whole successful, he could not close his eyes to the fact that there was a disposition on the part of private donors to provide less funds for this purpose, and that this year there had been more difficulty in obtaining those private funds which, although they had not sufficed to relieve distress, had sufficed in a large measure for experiments which had been conducted with a view to ultimate relief on larger lines. He believed the expenditure in this direction would be economic expenditure, and he regarded as contributors not only the local authorities and the ratepayers but the State itself.

If there was one thing more certain than another it was that when once poor relief in the ordinary sense had been given, when once the stamp of pauperism had been applied, it became practically permanent, and it was not to the interests of the State to allow the manufacture of paupers. There were times in the lives of almost every man when ill-fortune might affect him, and when a helping hand was of the most material consequence to him. The principle adopted at the Mansion House had resulted not only in relief but also in restoring the relieved to the ranks of the workers, and he was perfectly satisfied that many who would otherwise have dropped out had been saved and restored to their homes and to their places in the world without losing their decency or self-respect owing to the organisation set on foot by the Mansion House Committee in the City and other places. We were proud of the march of our civilisation, but we must all remember that there were weaker members of society who must receive help and aid if they were to keep in the ranks, and just as there was in the case of a marching army an ambulance to pick up those who fell out from exhaustion and other causes, so in the march of civilisation there should be an ambulance in the shape of an Unemployed Workmen's Act to help and assist those who dropped out from time to time and to restore them again to the ranks. To consign them to the workhouse was, in his opinion, to create obligations on the State of a permanent character rather than a saving to the State, and it was because of the added expenditure in this matter that he was anxious to see this Bill passed of course, with the national resources behind it, because they could not do the Samaritan without the oil and the twopence.

He wished the House to realise that it was not only in bad times that this help was needed. The peculiar characteristic of the commerce and trade of our country was that in lieu of one staple trade there was a much greater and increasing variety of employments growing up, and that in the character of the employments there was much more mobility, that as the country advanced in science and the application of the most recent discoveries of science to our industry there was a tendency to reduce labour, and that prosperity itself frequently caused occasions in which this timely help was necessary to avoid the home of a man with slender means being broken up. He had known many cases of men who had in their misfortunes been taken into the country on these farm colonies and had been made the best of, and their homes had been kept together in consequence. The system was one which had been of immense benefit to the temporarily poor of the industrial population, and, whatever might be said in criticism of such institutions, the Mansion House Committee and the Lord Mayor had led a notable crusade, and set a step in practical statesmanship which might well be followed by others.

He asked the Labour Members and others who had taken an adverse view of this Bill whether they would be wise in entirely rejecting it in its present form. It had much good in it, and while they did not agree with the whole of it—there had been a [strong expression of opinion that the Bill without the farm colony clause would be useless—he thought the Bill even in its present form would supply machinery which would be very useful for application next winter and which would provide an inducement for the provision of those voluntary funds without which nothing could be done. He hoped those on the other side of the House would appreciate the spirit with which the Government had approached this difficult and perplexing problem and would sanction this Bill. He looked forward to it as essential, he approved in the strongest terms the action of the Government in introducing this Bill, and he hoped that, if there was a spirit of wise and friendly co-operation, the Bill would be placed upon the Statute - book for the welfare of a class who in times of stress were unable to help themselves.

MR. CHANNING (Northamptonshire, E.)

said he did not think that the House of Commons during the twenty years which he had been a Member had ever been placed in so singular and deplorable a position as it was in the present debate. What they were practically asked by the Prime Minister to do was not to complete useful work, but to end a barren session, in order that he might be able to hush up the record of the most determined and resolute betrayal, and, pushing aside of all the various reforms he and his Government had promised to the country. He agreed very much with the speech of his hon. friend the Member for Islington, and the whole House had listened with the deepest interest to the hon. Member for Woolwich, who had made one of the most eloquent and unanswerable appeals that had ever been addressed to any Government in support of the Unemployed Bill, He would not attempt to overlay that appeal with any additional arguments, except upon one point. In the last few days witnesses before the Small Holdings Committee, of which he was a member, had given most striking evidence that in the industrial centres the acceleration of machinery was having the effect of displacing the older men, and that this result was leading these men to seek other employment by trying to obtain land for small holdings. He urged this point as bearing materially on the proposal in the original Bill to provide land for farm colonies. The men turned away by the great acceleration of the new types of machinery were men of forty to forty-five years of age. They were deserving and industrious men who if they could not get upon the land would go to swell the numbers of the unemployed. The Government ought to force their Bill through in the shape in which they had introduced it, with the clause which would enable a beginning to be made again by men in this position who without such opportunities were in danger of becoming paupers, in order to save them from pauperism, and to make a new industrial class of men who otherwise would not be employed.

Besides the interests of labour there were plenty of other classes of useful work on which the right hon. Gentleman had with almost insolent mockery turned his back. Take the business interests of the country. There was the Public Trustee Bill—a Bill of great importance which the Government had taken up and done nothing to pass. Take agriculture. Two useful Bills introduced by the President of the Board, the Bill to check adulteration of butter had been abandoned; while only that afternoon a measure had been introduced, nominally in the interests of business, the only result of which would be to increase the salaries of the right hon. Gentleman's relatives.

MR. A. J. BALFOUR

The hon. Gentleman must know that he is inaccurate in what he says, because I distinctly stated that the Bill introduced to-day would not come into operation during the tenure of those now holding the offices concerned.

MR. CHANNING

said he was wholly unaware of that fact, and he unreservedly withdrew any imputation his words placed upon the right hon. Gentleman. But whether it affected the present salaries of the right hon. Gentleman's relatives or not, it was a very small contribution to the demands of the great business world of this country, and a very poor and pitiable contribution to the legislative needs of the great business world. Another Bill which had again and again been passed by the right hon. Gentleman's colleague, the Lord Chancellor, through the other House, the Prevention of Corruption Bill, which was of immense importance for checking business frauds, had also been thrown aside. Another thing which had been passed over by the Government was the intolerable pressure of the rates of the country. The position to which vast areas of the country, and especially such districts as West Ham, were being Reduced was a great scandal of administration. The right hon. Gentleman had said that the incidence of local rating could not be dealt with until the question of valuation had been dealt with. But there had been no attempt to deal with the current needs of the nation in this question of valuation, and the question of rating had only been so far dealt with and in such a way as to benefit the landlords of agricultural land. Then there was the total neglect of the needs of Ireland. That had been thoroughly dealt with by the hon. Member for Waterford. Another point which bad shown the peculiar demoralisation and decomposition of Parliamentary procedure, and of the spirit of Parliament itself under the rule of the right hon. Gentleman, was that in no session had there been a larger number of important Bills standing in the name of private Members carried through various stages by large and decisive majorities in the House. The whole of those Bills practically could make no further progress. Only three years ago the strongest appeals were made in the House to remedy this intolerable scandal, and then the right hon. Gentleman had promised to consider measures for facilitating the passage of Bills under those conditions. Now the House had sunk so low as to acquiesce silently in the killing of Bills representing a vast volume of feeling outside. No protest was made. These Bills were allowed to be turned into empty resolutions on which many Members could record an insincere vote because they could go no further. That was a degradational Parliament. No wonder the right hon. Gentleman had adopted a method of handling this Motion, as singular as it was sinister. In his experience the House had never been brought to so low a level as by the present Prime Minister, who now sought six months reprieve, if he could escape by-elections, from the rebuff which the country would give him when it had the opportunity. When he was swept from power the majority of the electors would rejoice in terminating the worst Government that had ever disgraced the country.

Mr. A. J. BALFOUR

rose in his place, and claimed to move "That the Question be now put."

Question put, "That the Question be now put."

While the House was being cleared for a division, -

MR. SWIFT MACNEILL (Donegal, S.) (speaking seated and with his hat on)

said he desired to raise a point of order. When Resolutions affecting the business of the House, such as that under discussion, were proposed, Amendments were allowable, and he and the hon. Member for Wexford had intended to move the omission of the last clause of the Resolution, which, as the House was aware, was a new addition to such Motions. They were waiting for the discussion on the general issue to conclude, when they hoped to introduce their Amendment.

MR. SPEAKER

What is the point of order of the hon. Member?

MR. SWIFT MACNEILL

Is it in accordance with precedent, when it is mown that Amendments on a vital principle are to be moved, to grant the; closure before such Amendments have been discussed?

MR. SPEAKER

That is not a point of order, it is a matter of discretion, and I am afraid it has happened more than once before now.

MR. SWIFT MACNEILL

I hope it will not happen again.

The House divided:—Ayes, 211; Noes, 110. (Division List No. 317)

AYES.
Agg-Gardner, James Tynte Egerton, Hon. A. de Tatton Kenyon, Hon. Geo. T.(Denbigh)
Allhusen, Augustus Henry Eden Elliot, Hon. A. Ralph Douglas Knowles, Sir Lees
Anson, Sir William Reynell Faber, Edmund B. (Hants, W.) Lambton, Hon. Frederick Wm.
Arkwright, John Stanhope Faber, George Denison, (York) Laurie, Lieut. -General
Arnold-Forster, Rt.Hn.HughO. Fellowes. RtHn. Ailwyn Edward Law, Andrew Bonar (Glasgow)
Atkinson, Rt. Hon. John Fergusson, Rt.Hn.SirJ. (Manc'r Lawrence, Wm. F. (Liverpool
Aubrey-Fletcher, Rt. Hon. SirH Fielden, Edward Broeklehurst Lawson, Hn.H.L.W.(Mile End
Bagot, Capt. Josceline FitzRoy Finch, Rt. Hon. George H. Lee, ArthurH(Hants, Fareham.
Balcarres, Lord Finlay, Rt. HnSirRB. (Inv'rn'ss Lees, Sir Elliot (Birkenhead
Balfour, Rt.Hon.A.J.(Manch'r Firbank, Sir Joseph Thomas Legge, Col. Hon. Heneage
Balfour, Capt. C. B. (Hornsey) Fisher, William Hayes Leveson-Gower, FrederickN. S.
Balfour, RtHnGeraldW. (Leeds Fison, Sir Frederick William Liddell, Henry
Banbury, Sir Frederick George FitzGerald, Sir Robert Penrose- Lockwood, Lieut. -Col. A. R.
Bathurst, Hon. Allen Benjamin Fitzroy, Hon. Edward Algernon Long, Col. CharlesW. (Evesham
Bentinck, Lord Henry C. Flannery, Sir Fortescue Long, Rt. Hn. Walter(Bristol,S.
Bhownaggree, Sir M. M. Flower, Sir Ernest Lonsdale, John Brownlee
Bigwood, James Forster, Henry William Lowe, Francis William
Bingham, Lord Galloway, William Johnson Loyd, Archie Kirkman
Blundell, Colonel Henry Gardner, Ernest Lucas, Col. Francis (Lowestoft
Bond, Edward Garfit, William Lucas, ReginaldJ. (Portsmouth)
Boscawen, Arthur Griffith- Gordon, J. (Londonderry, S.) Lyttelton, Rt. Hon. Alfred
Brassey, Albert Gordon, MajEvans-(T'rH'mlets Macdona, John Cumming
Brodrick, Rt. Hon. St. John Gore, Hon. S; F. (Ormsby- Maconochie, A. W.
Brown, Sir Alex. H. (Shropsh.) Gorst, Rt, Hon. Sir John Eldon M'Arthur, Charles (Liverpool)
Brymer, William Ernest Goulding, Edward Alfred M'Killop, James (Stirlingshire)
Bull, William James Greene, HenryD. (Shrewsbury) Marks, Harry Hananel
Campbell, Rt.Hn.J.A.(Glasgow Greene, W. Raymond-(Cambs. Massey-Mainwaring, Hn. W. F.
Campbell, J.H.M.(Dublin Univ. Grenfell, William Henry Maxwell, RtHn. SirH. E. (Wigt'n
Carson, Rt. Hon. Sir Edw. H. Gretton, John Middlemore, John Throgmorton
Cautley, Henry Strother Greville, Hon. Ronald Mildmay, Francis Bingham
Cavendish, V.C.W. (Derbyshire Guthrie, Walter Murray Milvain, Thomas
Cayzer, Sir Charles William Hain, Edward Mitchell, William (Burnley)
Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor) Halsey, Rt. Hon. Thos. F. Molesworth, Sir Lewis
Cecil, Lord Hugh (Greenwich) Hamilton, Marqof(L'nd'nderry Morgan, DavidJ. (Walthamstow
Chamberlain, Rt.Hon.J.(Birm. Hardy, Laurence(Kent, Ashford Morpeth, Viscount
Chamberlain, RtHnJ.A.(Wore. Hare, Thomas Leigh Morrell, George Herbert
Chapman, Edward Harris, F. Leverton(Tynem'th Morton, Arthur H. Aylmer
Cochrane, Hon. Thos. H. A. E. Heath, Arthur Howard(Hanley Mount, William Arthur
Coghill, Douglas Harry Heath, Sir James(Staffords.NW Murray, Charles J. (Coventry)
Cohen, Benjamin Louis Heaton, John Henniker Murray, Col. Wyndham (Bath)
Corbett, T. L. (Down, North) Helder, Sir Augustus Myers, William Henry
Cox, Irwin Edward Bainbridge Henderson, Sir A.(Stafford. W.) Nicholson, William Graham
Crossley, Rt. Hon. Sir Savile Hill, Henry Staveley O'Neill, Hon. Robert Torrens
Dalrymple, Sir Charles Hope, J.F.(Sheffield, Brightside Palmer, Sir Walter (Salisbury)
Davenport, William Bromley- Hornby, Sir William Henry Peel, Hn. Wm Robert Wellesley
Dickson, Charles Scott Hoult, Joseph Percy, Earl
Dimsdale, Rt.Hon.Sir JosephC. Howard, John(Kent, Faversham Pierpoint, Robert
Disraeli, Coningsby Ralph Howard, J. (Midd., Tottenham Pilkington, Colonel Richard
Dorington, Rt. Hon.Sir JohnE. Hudson, George Bickersteth Platt-Higgins, Frederick
Doughty, Sir George Hunt, Rowland Powell, Sir Francis Sharp
Douglas, Rt, Hon. A. Akers- Hutton, John (Yorks. N. R.) Pryce-Jones, Lt. -Col. Edward
Doxford, Sir William Theodore Jameson, Major J. Eustace Purvis, Robert
Duke, Henry Edward Jeffreys, Rt. Hon. ArthurFred. Pym, C. Guy
Dyke, Rt. Hon.Sir William Hart Jessel, Captain Herbert Merton Rankin, Sir James
Rasch, Sir Frederic Carne Smith, Hon. W. F. D. (Strand) Warde, Colonel C. E.
Ratcliff, R. F Spear, John Ward Welby Lt.-Col.A.C.E(Taunton
Reid, James (Greenock) Stanley, Hon. Arthur(Ormskirk Welby, SirCbarlesG.E.(Notts.)
Remnant, James Farquharson Stanley, EdwardJas. (Somerset Willoughby, de Eresby, Lord
Ridley, S. Forde Stanley, Rt. Hon. Lord (Lanes. Wills, Sir Frederick (Bristol. N.
Ritchie, Rt. Hon. Chas. Thomson Stewart, Sir Mark J. M'Taggart Wodehouse, Rt. Hn. E.R.(Bath
Roberts, Samuel (Sheffield) Stone, Sir Benjamin Wolff, Gustav Wilbelm
Robertson, Herbert (Hackney) Stroyan, John Worsley-Taylor, Henry Wilson
Rollit, Sir Albert Kaye Talbat, Lord E. (Chichester) Wortley, Rt. Hon. C.B. Stuart-
Royds, Clement Molyneux Talbot, Rt.Hn.J.G.(Oxf'd Univ Wrightson, Sir Thomas
Sackville, Col. S. G. (Stopford- Taylor, Austin (East Toxteth) Wylie, Alexander
Sadler, Col. Sir Samuel Alex. Thompson, Dr. E C (Monagh'nN Wyndham-Quin, Col. W. H.
Samuel, Sir HarryS. (Limehouse Thornton, Percy M.
Sassoon, Sir Edward Albert Tollemache, Henry James TELLERS FOR THE AYES—
Saunderson, Rt.Hn.Col.Edw.J. Tomlinson, Sir Wm. Edw. M. Sir Alexander Acland-Hood
Sharpe, William Edward T. Tuff, Charles and Viscount Valentia.
Skewes-Cox, Sir Thomas Tuke, Sir John Batty
Smith, Rt. HnJ.Parker(Lanarks Walrond, Rt.Hon.Sir William H.
NOES.
Abraham, William (Cork, N.E. Goddard, Daniel Ford O'Kelly, James(Roscommon,N.
Ainsworth, John Stirling Grant, Corrie O'Malley, William
Allen, Charles P. Hammond, John O'Shaughnessy, P; J.
Baker, Joseph Allen Hardie, J. Keir (MerthyrTydvil O'Shee, James John
Barry, E. (Cork, S.) Harwood, George Parrott, William
Beaumont, Wentworth C. B. Hayden, John Patrick Pearson, Sir Weetman D.
Benn, John Williams Hemphill, Rt. Hon. Charles H. Power, Patrick Joseph
Boland, John Higham, John Sharp Price, Robert John
Bryce, Rt. Hon. James Hope, John Deans (Fife, West) Reckitt, Harold James
Buchanan, Thomas Ryburn Jacoby, James Alfred Reddy, M.
Burke, E. Haviland- Jones, William (Carnarvonshire Redmond, John E. (Waterford)
Burt, Thomas Jordan, Jeremiah Richards, Thomas
Buxton, Sydney Charles(Poplar Kennedy, Vincent P.(Cavan,W. Rickett, J. Compton
Caldwell, James Kilbride, Denis Robertson, Edmund (Dundee)
Campbell, John (Armagh, S.) Lamont, Norman Roche, Augustine (Cork)
Campbell-Bannerman, Sir H. Langley, Batty Roche, John (Galway, East)
Causton, Richard Knight Law, Hugh Alex.(Donegal, W. Rose, Charles Day
Channing, Francis Allston Lawson, Sir Wilfrid (Cornwall) Russell, T. W.
Clancy, John Joseph Layland-Barratt, Francis Samuel, Herbert L. (Cleveland
Condon, Thomas Joseph Leese, Sir JosephF. (Accrington) Seely, Maj. J.E.B.(IsleofWight)
Crean, Eugene Lough, Thomas Sheehy, David
Crombie, John William Lundon, W. Shipman, Dr. John G.
Crooks, William Lyell, Charles Henry Sinclair, John (Forfarshire)
Cullinan, J. MacNeill, John Gordon Swift Slack, John Bamford
Defany, William M'Fadden, Edward Smith, Samuel (Flint)
Devlin, Joseph (Kilkenny, N.) M'Hugh, Patrick A. Soares, Ernest J.
Dilke, Rt. Hon. Sir Charles M'Killop, W. (Sligo, North) Spencer, RtHnC.R.(Nortnants.
Donelan, Captain A. Mooney, John J. Sullivan, Donal
Doogan, P. C. Moss, Samuel Tennant, Harold John
Duncan, J. Hastings Murnaghan, George Warner, Thomas Courtenay T.
Ellis, John Edward (Notts.) Murphy, John Wason, Eugene (Clackmannan)
Emmott, Alfred Nannetti, Joseph P. Weir, James Galloway
Esmonde, Sir Thomas Nolan, Col. John P. (Galway, N.) White, George (Norfolk)
Farrell, James Patrick Nolan, Joseph (Louth, South) White, Luke (York, E. R.
Fenwick, Charles O'Brien, Kendal(TipperaryMid Whiteley, George (York, W. R.
Ffrench, Peter O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny Whittaker, Thomas Palmer
Field, William O'Brien, P. J. (Tipperary, N.) Williams, Osmond (Merioneth)
Flynn, James Christopher O'Connor, James (Wicklow, W. Young, Samuel
Foster, Sir Walter (Derby Co.) O'Donnell, John (Mayo, S.)
Fowler, Rt. Hon. Sir Henry O'Donnell, T. (Kerry, W.) TELLERS FOR THE NOES—
Gilhooly, James O'Dowd, John Mr. MacVeagh and Mr. Flavin.
Gladstone Rt. Hn. Herbert John O'Kelly, Conor (Mayo, W,)
AYES.
Agg-Gardner, James Tynte Garfit, William Moon, Edward Robert Pacy
Allhusen, Augustus Henry Eden Gibbs, Hon. A. G. H. Morpeth, Viscount
Anson, Sir William Reynell Godson, Sir Augustus Frederick Morrell, Gerge Herbert
Arkwright, John Stanhope Gordon, J. (Londonderry, S.) Morrison, James Archibald
Arnold-Foster, Rt.Hn. HughO. Gordon, Maj. Evans-(T'r H'lets Morton, Arthur H. Aylmer
Atkinson, Rt. Hon. John Gore, Hon. S. F. Ormsby- Mount, William Arthur
Aubrey-Fletcher, Rt.Hon.Sir H Gorst, Rt. Hon. Sir John Eldon Murray, Chas. J. (Coventry)
Bagot. Capt. Josceline FitzRoy Goschen Hon. George Joachim Murray, Col. Wyndham (Bath)
Balcarres, Lord Gray, Ernest (West Ham) Myers, William Henry
Balfour, Rt. Hon. A. J. (Manch'r) Greene, SirE. W. (B'rySEdm'nds Nicholson, William Graham
Balfour, Capt. C. B. (Hornsey) Greene, Henry D. (Shrewsbury) O'Neill, Hon. Robert Torrens
Balfour, RtHnGeraldW. (Leeds Greene, W. Raymond-(Cambs:) Palmer, Sir Walter (Salisbury)
Balfour, Kenneth R. (Christch Grenfell, William Henry Percy, Earl
Banbury, Sir Frederick George Gretton, John Pierpoint, Robert
Bathurst, Hon. Allen Benjamin Greville, Hon. Ronald Pilkington, Colonel Richard
Beach, Rt. Hn. Sir Michael Hicks Hain, Edward Piatt-Higgins, Frederick
Bentinck, Lord Henry C. Halsey, Rt, Hon. Thomas F. Plummer, Sir Walter R
Bhownaggree, Sir M. M. Hamilton, Marq. of(L'nd'nderry Powell, Sir Francis Sharp
Bigwood, James Hardy, Laurence(Kent, Ashford Pryce-Jones, Lt. -Col. Edward
Blundell, Colonel Henry Hare, Thomas Leigh Purvis, Robert
Brassey, Albert Harris, F. Leverton(Tynem'th Pym, C. Guy
Brodrick, Rt. Hon. St. John Hay, Hon. Claude George Randles, John S.
Brymer, William Ernest Heath, Arthur Howard(Hanley Rankin, Sir James
Bull, William James Heath, SirJames(Staffords. NW Rasch, Sir Frederic Carne
Campbell, J. H. M. (Dublin Univ. Helder, Sir Augustus Ratcliff, R. F.
Carson, Rt. Hon. Sir Edw. H. Henderson, Sir A. (Stafford, W. Reid, James (Greenock)
Cautley, Henry Strother Hermon-Hodge, Sir Robert T. Renwick, George
Cavendish, V.C.W. (Derbyshire) Hill, Henry Staveley Roberts, Samuel (Sheffield)
Cayzer, Sir Charles William Hoare, Sir Samuel Robertson, Herbt. (Hackney)
Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor) Hope, J.F.(Sheffield, Brightside Round, Rt. Hn. James
Cecil, Lord Hugh (Greenwich) Hoult, Joseph Royds, Clement Molyneux
Chamberlain, Rt. Hon. J.(Birm. Houston, Robert Paterson Rutherford, John (Lancashire)
Chamberlain, Rt. Hn. J.A.(Wore Howard, Jobn(KentFaversham Rutherford, W. W. (Liverpool
Chapman, Edward Hozier, Hon. James Henry Cecil Sackville, Col. S. G. (Stopford-
Clive, Captain Percy A. Hudson, George Bickersteth Sadler, Col. Sir Samuel Alex.
Cochrane, Hon. Thos. H. A. E. Hunt, Rowland Samuel, Sir H. S. (Limehouse)
Coddingson, Sir William Hutton, John (Yorks, N. R.) Saunderson, Rt. Hn. Col. Edw. J.
Coghill, Douglas Harry Jameson, Major J. Eustace Sharpe, William Edward T.
Collings, Rt. Hon. Jesse Jeffreys, Rt. Hon. Arthur Fred. Sinclair, Louis (Romford)
Compton, Lord Alwyne Jessel, Captain Herbert Merton Skewes-Cox, Sir Thomas
Cook, Sir Frederick Lucas Kenyon, Hon. Geo. T. (Denbigh) Smith, Abel H. (Hertford. East)
Corbett, T. L. (Down, North) Kimber, Sir Henry Smith, H. C(North'mb. Tyneside
Cripps, Charles Alfred Knowles, Sir Lees Smith, Hon. W. F. D. (Strand)
Crossley, Rt. Hon. Sir Savile Lambton, Hon. Frederick Wm. Spear, John Ward
Dalrymple, Sir Charles Law, Andrew Bonar (Glasgow) Stanley, Rt. Hon. Lord (Lancs.
Davenport, William Bromley- Lawrence, Wm. F. (Liverpool) Stewart, Sir M. J. M'Taggart
Dewar, Sir T. R. (TowerHamlets) Lawson, HnH. L. W. (Mile End) Stone, Sir Benjamin
Dickson, Charles Scott Lee, Arthur H.(Hants., Fareham Stroyan, John
Dimsdale, Rt. Hon. Sir Joseph C. Legge, Col. Hon. Heneage Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester)
Disraeli, Coningsby Ralph Leveson-Gower, Frederick N. S. Talbot, Rt.Hn.J.G.(Oxf'dUniv)
Dorington, Rt. Hon. Sir John E. Liddell, Henry Thornton, Percy M.
Doughty, Sir George Long, Col. CharlesW. (Evesham) Tomlinson, Sir Wm. Edw. M.
Douglas, Rt. Hon. A. Akers- Long, Rt. Hn. Walter(Bristol, S. Tuff, Charles
Doqford, Sir William Theodore Lonsdale, John Brownlee Tuke, Sir John Batty
Duke, Henry Edward Lowe, Francis William Walrond, Rt. Hn. Sir Wm. H.
Dyke, Rt. Hon. Sir William Hart Loyd, Archie Kirkman Warde, Colonel C. E.
Egerton, Hon. A. de Tatton Lucas, Col. F. (Lowestoft) Welby, Lt. -Col. ACE(Taunton)
Faber, Edmund B. (Hants, W.) Lucas, Reginald J. (Portsm'th Welby, Sir Chas. G. E. (Notts.)
Faber, George Denison (York) Lyttelton, Rt. Hon. Alfred Whiteley, H (Ashton und Lyne
Fellowes, RtHnAilwyn Edward Macdona, John Cumming Whitmore, Charles Algernon
Fergusson, Rt.Hn.Sir J. (Manc'r MacIver, David (Liverpool) Willoughby de Eresby, Lord
Fielden, Edward Brocklehurst Maconochie, A. W. Wodehouse, Rt.Hn. E.R.(Bath
Finch, Rt. Hon. George H M'Arthur, Charles (Liverpool) Wolff, Gustav Wilhelm
Finlay, Rt. Hn. SirR. B. (Inv'n'ss M'K.llop, James (Stirlingshire) Wortley, Rt. Hon. C. B. Stuart-
Firbank, Sir Joseph Thomas Marks, Harry Hananel Wylie, Alexander
Fisher, William Hayes Martin, Richard Biddulph Wyndham-Quin, Col. W. H.
Fitzroy, Hon. Edward Algernon Massey-Mainwaring, Hn. W.F. Yerburgh, Robert Armstrong
Flannery, Sir Fortescue Maxwell, Rt. HnSirHE(Wigt'n
Flower, Sir Ernest Middlemore, John Throgmorton TELLERS FOR THE AYES.—
Forster, Henry William Mildmav, Francis Bingham Sir Alexander Acland-Hood and Viscount Valentia.
Galloway, William Johnson Milvain, Thomas
Gardner, Ernest Moleswoith, Sir Lewis
NOES.
Ainsworth, John Stirling Grant, Corrie O'Shaughnessy, P. J.
Allen, Charles P. Griffith, Ellis J. Parrott, William
Baker, Joseph Allen Gurdon, Sir W. Brampton Pease, J. A. (Saffron Walden)
Barran, Rowland Hirst Hammond, John Rea, Russell
Barry, E. (Cork, S.) Hayden, John Patrick Redmond, John E. (Waterford)
Benn, John Williams Hemphill, Rt. Hon. Charles H. Reid, Sir R. Threshie (Dumfries)
Bolton, Thomas Dolling Henderson, Arthur (Durham) Richards, Thomas
Bright, Allan Heywood Higham, John Sharp Roberts, John H (Denbighs)
Burns, John Hope, John Deans (Fife, West) Roche, Augustine (Cork)
Burt, Thomas Jacoby, James Alfred Rose, Charles Day
Buxton, Sydney Charles(Poplar) Jones, Leif (Appleby) Russell, T. W.
Caldwell, James Jones, William(Carnarvonshire) Samuel, Herbert L. (Cleveland)
Campbell-Bannerman, Sir H. Jordan, Jeremiah Seely, Maj.J.E.B.(Isle of Wight)
Causton, Richard Knight Kitson, Sir James Shaw, Thomas (Hawick B.)
Cawley, Frederick Lamont, Norman Shipman, Dr. John G.
Channing, Francis Allston Langley, Batty Smith, Samuel (Flint)
Cheetham, John Frederick Lawson, Sir Wilfrid (Cornwall) Soares, Ernest J.
Clancy, John Joseph Layland-Barratt, Francis Spencer, Rt.Hn.C.R.(Northants
Crean, Eugene Levy, Maurice Stanhope, Hon. Philip James
Cremer, William Randal Lloyd-George, David Sullivan, Donal
Crooks, William Lundon, W. Thomas, Sir A. (Glamorgan, E.)
Delany, William Lyell, Charles Henry Thompson, Dr. EC(Monaghan N
Doogan, P. C. MacNeill, John Gordon Swift Toulmin, George
Duncan, J. Hastings M'Fadden, Edward Warner, Thomas Courtenay T.
Edwards, Frank M'Kean, John Wason, Eugene (Clackmannan)
Ellice, CaptEC(S. Andrw'sBghs) Moss, Samuel Weir, James Galloway
Ellis, John Edward (Notts.) Murnaghan, George White, George (Norfolk)
Emmott, Alfred Murphy, John White, Luke (York, E.R.)
Esmonde, Sir Thomas Nannetti, Joseph P. White, Patrick (Meath, North)
Eve, Harry Trelawney Newnes, Sir George Whiteley, George (York. W.R.)
Farrell, James Patrick Nolan, Joseph (Louth, South) Whittaker, Thomas Palmer
Fenwick, Charles Norman, Henry Williams, Osmond (Merioneth)
Field, William O'Brien, Kendal (Tipperary Mid Wilson, Henry J. (York, W.R.
Flavin, Michael Joseph O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny) Young, Samuel
Foster, Sir Walter (Derby Co.) O'Brien, P. J. (Tipperary, N.)
Fowler, Rt. Hon. Sir Henry O'Connor, James (Wicklow. W.) TELLERS FOR THE NOES—
Gilhooly, James O'Connor, John (Kildare, N.) Mr. Herbert Gladstone and Mr. William M'Arthur.
Goddard, Daniel Ford O'Donnell, John (Mayo, S.)

Question put accordingly.

The House divided:—Ayes, 223; Noes, 119. (Division List No. 318)

AYES.
Agg-Gardner, James Tynte Carson, Rt. Hon. Sir Edw. H Douglas, Rt. Hon. A. Akers-
Allhusen, Augustus Henry Eden Cautley, Henry Strother Doxford, Sir William Theodore
Anson, Sir William Reynell Cavendish. V. C. W. (Derbyshire Duke, Henry Edward
Arkwright, John Stanhope Cayzer, Sir Charles William Dyke, Rt. Hon. Sir William Hart
Arnold-Forster, Rt. Hn. Hugh O Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor Egerton, Hon. A. de Tatton
Atkinson, Rt. Hon. John Cecil, Lord Hugh (Greenwich) Faber, Edmund B. (Hants, W.)
Aubrey-Fletcher, Rt. Hon. SirH Chamberlain, Rt. Hon. J. (Birm). Faber, George Denison (York)
Bagot, Capt. Josceline FitzRoy Chamberlain, RtHnJ. A. (Worc. Fellowes. Rt HnAilwyn Edward
Balcarres, Lord Chapman, Edward Fergusson, Rt. Hn. SirJ. (Manc'r)
Balfour, Rt. Hon. A.J.(Manch'r) Clive, Captain Percy A. Fielden, Edward Brockleburst
Balfour, Capt. C. B. (Hornsey) Cochrane, Hon. Thos. H. A. E. Finch, Rt. Hon. George H.
Balfour, RtHnGeraldW.(Leeds Coddington, Sir William Finlay, RtHn SirRB. (Inv'rn'ss)
Balfour, KennethR. (Christch. Coghill, Douglas Harry Firbank, Sir Thomas Joseph
Banbury, Sir Frederick George Collings, Rt. Hon. Jesse Fisher, William Hayes
Bathurst, Hon. Allen Benjamin Compton, Lord Alwyne Fitzroy, Hon. Edward Algernon
Beach, Rt. Hn. Sir Michael Hicks Cook, Sir Frederick Lucas Flannery, Sir Fortescue
Bentinck, Lord Henry C. Corbett, T. L. (Down, North) Flower, Sir Ernest
Bhownaggree, Sir M. M. Cripps, Charles Alfred Forster, Henry William
Bigwood, James Crossley, Rt. Hon. Sir Savile Galloway, William Johnson
Blundell, Colonel Henry Dalrymple, Sir Charles Gardner, Ernest
Boscawen, Arthur Griffith- Davenport, William Bromley Garfit, William
Brassey, Albert Dewar, Sir T. R. (T'r Hamlets) Gibbs, Hon. A. G. H.
Brodrick, Rt. Hon. St. John Dickson, Charles Scott Godson, Sir Augustus Frederick
Brymer, William Ernest Dimsdale, Rt. Hon. Sir Joseph C Gordon, J. (Londonderry, S.)
Bull, William James Disraeli, Coningsby Ralph Gordon, Maj Evans-(T'rH'ml'ts
Butcher, John George Dorington, Rt. Hon. Sir John E. Gore, Hon. S. F. Ormsby-
Campbell, J.H.M.(Dublin Univ. Doughty, Sir George Gorst. Rt. Hon. Sir John Eldon
Goschen, Hon. George Joachim Lowe, Francis William Round, Rt. Hon. James
Goulding, Edward Alfred Loyd, Archie Kirkman Royds, Clement Molyneux
Gray Ernest (West Ha) Lucas, Col. Francis (Lowestoft) Rutherford, John (Lancashire)
Greene, Sir EW(B'rySEdm'nds) Lucas, Reginald J. (Portsmouth Rutherford, W. W. (Liverpool)
Greene, HenryD. (Shrewsbury) Lyttelton, Rt. Hon. Alfred Sackville, Col. S. G. Stopford-
Greene, W. Raymond-(Cambs. Macdona, John Cumming Sadler, Col. Sir Samuel Alex.
Grenfell, William Henry MacIver, David (Liverpool) Samuel, Sir HarryS. (Limehouse
Gretton, John Maconochie, A. W. Saunderson, Rt. Hn.Col.Edw.J.
Greville, Hon. Ronald M'Arthur, Charles (Liverpool) Seely, Charles Hilton (Lincoln)
Hain, Edward M'Killop, James (Stirlingshire) Sharpe, William Edward T.
Halsey, Rt. Hon. Thomas F. Marks, Harry Hananel Sinclair, Louis (Romford)
Hamilton, Marq. of (L'nd'nderry Martin, Richard Biddulph Skewes-Cox, Sir Thomas
Hardy, Laurence(Kent, Ashford Massey-Mainwaring, Hn. W. F. Smith, Abel H. (Hertford, East)
Hare, Thomas Leigh Maxwell, Rt. HnSirHE(Wigt'on Smith, H.C(North'mb. Tyneside
Harris, F. (Leverton, Tynem'th) Middlemore, John Throgmorton Smith, Hon. W. F. D. (Strand)
Hay, Hon. Claude George Mildmay, Francis Bingham Spear, John Ward
Heath, Arthur Howard(Hanley) Milvain, Thomas Stanley, Hon. Arthur(Ormskirk
Heath, Sir James(Staffords, NW Molesworth, Sir Lewis Stanley, EdwardJas. (Somerset
Helder, Sir Augustus Moon, Edward Robert Pacy Stanley, Rt. Hon. Lord (Lancs.)
Henderson, Sir A. (Stafford, W) Morgan, David J. (Walthamstow Stewart, Sir Mark J. M'Taggart
Hermon-Hodge, Sir Robert T. Morpeth, Viscount Stone, Sir Benjamin
Hill, Henry Staveley Morrell, George Herbert Stroyan, John
Hoare, Sir Samuel Morrison, James Archibald Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester
Hope, J.F.(Sheffield,Brightside Morton, Arthur H. Aylmer Talbot, Rt. Hn. J. G. (Oxf'dUniv.
Hoult, Joseph Mount, William Arthur Taylor, Austin (East Toxteth)
Houston, Robert Paterson Murray, Charles J. (Coventry Thornton, Percy M.
Howard, John(Kent, Fav'rsham Murray, Col. Wyndham (Bath) Tomlinson, Sir Wm. Edw. M.
Hozier. Hon. James Henry Cecil Myers, William Henry Tuff, Charles
Hudson, George Bickersteth Nicholson, William Graham Tuke, Sir John Batty
Hunt, Rowland O'Neill, Hon. Robert Torrens Vincent, Sir Edgar (Exeter)
Hutton, John (Yorks., N.R.) Palmer, Sir Walter (Salisbury) Walrond, Rt. Hn. Sir William H.
Jameson, Major J. Eustace Percy, Earl Warde, Colonel C. E.
Jeffreys, Rt. Hon. Arthur Fred Pierpoint, Robert Welby, Lt. -Col. A.C.E.(Taunton
Jessel, Captain Herbert Merton Pilkington, Colonel Richard Welby, Sir CharlesG. E. (Notts.)
Kenyon, Hon. Geo. T. (Denbigh) Platt-Higgins, Frederick Whiteley, H(Ashton und. Lyne
Keswick, William Plummer, Sir Walter R. Whitmore, Charles Algernon
Kimber, Sir Henry Powell, Sir Francis Sharp Willoughby de Eresby, Lord
Knowles, Sir Lees Pryce-Jones, Lt. -Col. Edward Wodehouse, Rt.Hn.E.R.(Bath)
Lambton, Hon. Frederick Wm. Purvis, Robert Wolff, Gustav Wilhelm
Law, Andrew Bonar (Glasgow) Pym, C. Guy Wortley, Rt.Hon.C.B.(Stuart-
Lawrence, Wm. F. (Liverpool) Randles, John S. Wylie, Alexander
Lawson, Hn. H. L. W. (Mile End) Rankin, Sir James Wyndham-Quin, Col. W. H.
Lee, ArthurH. (Hants., Fareham Rasch, Sir Frederic Carne Yerburgh, Robert Armstrong
Legge, Col. Hon. Heneage Ratcliff, R. F.
Leveson-Gower, Frederick N.S. Reid, James (Greenock) TELLERS FOR THE AYES—
Liddell, Henry Remnant, James Farquharson Sir Alexander Acland-Hood and Viscount Valentia.
Long, Col. Charles W.(Evesham Renwick, George
Long, Rt. Hn. Walter(Bristol,S. Roberts, Samuel (Sheffield)
Lonsdale, John Brownlee Robertson, Herbert (Hackney)
NOES.
Ainsworth, John Stirling Crooks, William Gurdon, Sir W. Brampton
Allen, Charles P. Delany, William Hammond, John
Baker, Joseph Allen Dilke, Rt. Hon. Sir Charles Hayden, John Patrick
Barran, Rowland Hirst Doogan, P. C. Hemphill, Bt. Hon. Charles H.
Barry, E. (Cork, S.) Duncan, J. Hastings Henderson, Arthur (Durham)
Benn, John Williams Edwards, Frank Higham, John Sharp
Bolton, Thomas Dolling Ellice, Capt EC(S. Andrw'sBghs Hope, John Deans (Fife, West)
Bright, Allan Heywood. Ellis, John Edward (Notts.) Jacoby, James Alfred
Buchanan, Thomas Ryburn Emmott, Alfred Joicey, Sir James
Burns, John Esmonde, Sir Thomas Jones, Leif (Appleby
Burt, Thomas Eve, Harry Trelawney Jones, William(Carnarvonshire
Buxton, Sydney Charles(Poplar Farrell, James Patrick Jordan, Jeremiah
Caldwell, James Fenwick, Charles Kearley, Hudson E.
Campbell-Bannerman, Sir H. Field, William Kitson, Sir James
Causton, Richard Knight Flavin, Michael Joseph Lamont, Norman
Cawley, Frederick Foster, Sir Walter (Derby Co.) Langley, Batty
Channing, Francis Allston Fowler, Rt. Hon. Sir Henry Lawson, Sir Wilfrid (Cornwall)
Cheetham, John Frederick Gilhooly, James Layland-Barratt, Francis
Clancy, John Joseph Goddard, Daniel Ford Levy, Maurice
Crean, Eugene Grant, Corrie Lundon, W.
Cremer, William Randal Griffith, Ellis J. Lyell, Charles Henry
MacNeill, John Gordon Swift Price, Robert John Thomas, Sir A.(Glamorgan, E.)
M'Fadden, Edward Rea, Russell Thomas, David Alfred(Merthyr
M'Kean, John Reckitt, Harold James Thompson, Dr EC(Monaghan, N.
Moss, Samuel Redmond, John E.(Waterford) Toulmin, George
Murnaghan, George Reid, Sir R. Threshie (Dumfries) Villiers, Ernest Amherst
Murphy, John Richards, Thomas Warner, Thomas Courtenay T.
Nannetti, Joseph P. Roberts, John H. (Denbighs.) Wason, Eugene (Clackmannan
Newnes, Sir George Roche, Augustine (Cork) Weir. James Galloway
Nolan, Col. John P. (Galway, N.) Rose, Charles Day White, George (Norfolk)
Nolan, Joseph (Louth, South) Russell, T. W. White, Luke (York, E.R.)
Norman, Henry Samuel, Herbert L. (Cleveland) White, Patrick (Meath North)
O'Brien, Kendal(Tipperary Mid Seely, Maj.J.E.B.(IsIe of Wight) Whiteley, George (York, W.R.)
O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny) Shaw, Thomas (Hawick B.) Whittaker, Thomas Palmer
O'Brien, P. J. (Tipperary, N.) Shipman, Dr. John G. Williams, Osmond (Merioneth)
O'Connor, James (Wicklow, W. Slack, John Bamford Wilson, Henry J. (York, W.R.)
O'Connor, John (Kildare, N,) Smith, Samuel (Flint) Young, Samuel
O'Donnell, John (Mayo, S. Soares, Ernest J.
O'Shaughnessy, P. J. Spencer, RtHn.C.R. (Northants TELLERS FOR THE NOES—Mr. Herbert Gladstone and Mr. William M'Arthur.
Parrott, William Stanhope, Hon. Philip James
Pease, J. A. (Saffron Walden) Sullivan, Donal

Bill read a second time, and committed for To-morrow.

Ordered, that for the remainder of the Session, Government Business be not interrupted, except at half-past Seven of the clock at an Afternoon Sitting, under the provisions of any Standing Order regulating the Sittings of the House, and may be entered upon at any hour though opposed; that at the conclusion of Government Business each day Mr. Speaker do adjourn the House without Question put, and that no Motions be made for leave to bring in Bills under Standing Order No. 11.

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