HC Deb 10 July 1905 vol 149 cc163-203

Considered in Committee.

(In the Committee.)

[Mr. GRANT LAWSON (Yorkshire, N.R., Thirsk) in the Chair.]

Clause 1:—

Amendment proposed— In page 2, line 9, after the word 'country' to insert the words 'by reason of the treatment of the religious body to which he belongs or'."—(Sir Charles Dilke.)

Question again proposed, "That those words be there inserted."


, continuing his speech, said the Prime Minister had made a point of the fact that if we were to allow persecuted aliens to come into the country it would increase the pauper population. He had pointed out that if the case of these persecuted aliens was a matter on which the nation felt deeply the nation ought to pay for those paupers rather than that Stepney or any other parish should do so. He might remind the Committee that the number of alien paupers in proportion to population was very much smaller as regarded aliens than it was as regarded the British population, and where the alien population existed in great numbers, as they did in Stepney, then such portion of them as were paupers were largely supported by the alien population of that district who paid rates—as was the case in Stepney. In fact, it was obvious that in many districts in which aliens existed in large numbers, they must pay not only the proportion of rates which was necessary to support their own paupers, but also a considerable proportion of the rates which were necessary to support British paupers as well. And, therefore, he did think, looking on this matter broadly, that the case as regarded paupers had not been made out at all, and that that art of the argument of the Prime Minister must of necessity fall to the ground.

The Prime Minister said that if the Amendment of his right hon. friend were to be accepted, every alien immigrant pauper would say that he was a victim of religious persecution or might be the victim of religious persecution. When he heard that he could not help wondering whether the Prime Minister had looked at the Government Amendment or not. The Government Amendment, which would come on for discussion as a matter of form later, was to insert after the word "prosecution," "or punishment on religious grounds." It was obvious that if the pauper immigrants were allowed to plead as an excuse that they had come here to avoid prosecution or punishment, and solely on religious grounds, it would be perfectly possible for every pauper immigrant who came to make that an excuse just as easily as if the Amendment of his right hon. friend was carried. Besides, he ventured to maintain that it would be a far easier thing for the immigration officer to decide as to the genuineness of a plea of that kind than it would be to decide the very many difficult questions which he would have to consider under Sub-clauses (a) and (b) which they had already passed.

Then the Prime Minister made another suggestion. He said that he did not think that those men ought to be allowed to come as paupers. He praised the way in which the Jews had assisted their co-religionists in times of distress, and he said that this case was rather one in which the rich Jews ought to help the poor Jews, and so enable them to get out of the category of paupers, and to except themselves from this particular section. Well, if that was the case, why had the Government proposed an Amendment at all? Clearly that was not the opinion of the Government when they put down this Amendment. If it was sufficient that the rich Jews should help the poor Jews who desired to come into this country, then surely the Prime Minister's objection argued just as strongly against the Government concession as it did against the Amendment of the right hon. Baronet.

But the real question which he rose to put before the Committee was this—which I of three categories of Amendments on the Paper ought they to accept? There were a great many Amendments down—most of them in different language—apparently quot homines tot sententiae. There was first of all the category to which the Amendment of his right hon. friend belonged; secondly, that represented by the Amendments of the noble Lord the Member for Greenwich and the hon. and learned Gentleman the Member for Stretford; and there was, thirdly, the Government Amendment. The right hon. Baronet's Amendment was the most liberal; that of the noble Lord and the hon. and learned Member for Stretford the second; and the least liberal was that of the Government. Now he wished to ask a Question with regard to the Government Amendment. What was meant in the Government Amendment by "solely to avoid prosecution or punishment on religious grounds." Would it be a proper plea for an alien immigrant to state that he had left his own country because he feared prosecution? Was that what was meant by the words "avoid prosecution," or must the prosecution actually have taken place before he could set up that as a plea to enable him to enter here? That was a somewhat important question, because if the more liberal view of that was taken—if an alien immigrant might set up the plea that he had left his own country because he feared prosecution might be coming—then of course the Government Amendment was perhaps very much more liberal than some of them had been imagining. Perhaps the Home Secretary when he spoke would be good enough to reply to that Question.

He had an alternative suggestion to make to the House, Would the Home Secretary be willing to accept the Amendment of the right hon. Baronet provided it came after the word "solely." It would restrict it a little if it read "solely by reason of the treatment of the religious body to which he belongs or to avoid prosecution for an offence of a political character." But supposing that the Home Secretary made an unfavourable reply to that suggestion, would he not take the words of the hon. and learned Member for the Stretford Division rather than those of his own Amendment. They should have the word "persecution" instead of "prosecution." He was quite sure the House would agree with him that the right hon. Baronet put forward a very powerful plea on behalf of the views which he held. The argument for his Amendment as contrasted with other Amendments was that much of the worst cruelty on Jews was possible without any prosecution taking place at all. Organised attacks had been made on the Jews in many parts of Russia, which were connived at by the authorities, which were ignored by the police, and which would not make it possible for any of the victims of that kind of persecution to escape the reatriction which was placed upon them under the form of the Government Amendment. He was not going to say anything about the "right of asylum." He thought historically, undoubtedly, we could not talk very much about the light of asylum, but we could talk about the "practice of asylum," and that was the real point that they wanted, as far as possible, to keep up. Because of any evil that we saw now in this country resulting from alien immigration, we did not want to think that Jews in distant parts of Europe in fear of their lives; might be prevented from coming here because they feared that on arrival they would be turned back to face again the persecution which they were seeking to avoid. That was the real question; it was no vague altruism. It was no old-fashioned cosmopolitanism that members of the Opposition held in putting forward that plea. What they said was that this had been the traditional policy of this country in the past, that we had not suffered by it, that in some respects we had gained by it, and that was the policy which in regard to this question of religious persecution they desired to see continued by this country.

MR. DUKE (Plymouth)

said that Members on the Government side of the House generally believed that the acceptance of this Amendment would deprive this Bill of a great deal of its practical utility. Many of them sympathised with what had been said on both sides of the House with regard to religious refugees, but they did not see their way to go so far as the hon. and learned Member for Stretford was evidently prepared to go. He, however, could not help thinking that there must be some modification of the terms of the clause which would enable the Government to meet a sentiment which found strong expression in the House and would find a powerful echo throughout the country. There might not have been a right of asylum in this country in the past, but among the masses of the people there was an honest desire that they should do nothing to deprive themselves of a source of national pride in the sense that the oppressed of other countries were able to find a refuge here. He asked the Home Secretary whether the difficulty could not be solved by some form of words which would meet the case of a Jew who was in imminent peril of his life and who came to this country penniless because he had been stripped of all the means he had possessed. Could not words be inserted which would make it a qualification to be specially considered that the refugee was in immediate danger of life or limb arising from his religious beliefs? And could not we, for the purpose of securing that benefit to such deserving persons, arrange that the guarantee of the Jewish Board of Guardians should be accepted as a sufficient security that an otherwise deserving person would not become a burden on the rates.


said the Amendment placed on the Paper by the Home Secretary was a remarkable proof that the discussions on the Pill, short though they had been, had produced a marked effect on the minds of the Government. Had it not been for those discussions, the present Amendment which, although it did not go far enough, was nevertheless a concession, would never have been put forward. The Prime Minister himself had now admitted that the Huguenots did not arrive in this country in that state of prosperity which many people imagined, and that, as a matter of fact, some of them were in such a state of destitution that a public subscription had to be raised to help them. It was unfortunate that the right hon. Gentleman should have taken the present opportunity, if not to question the wisdom of the generous policy of the present day with regard to aliens, at any rate apparently to suggest to the Committee that he looked upon it as an open question as to whether this country should not at any moment reverse or limit those great principles of liberal admission which were supposed to have become the common property of the nation. It could not be denied that owing to the wise legislation of the last century it had at any rate become the custom of the country to admit aliens without question, and whereas before the burden of proof lay the other way, it was now cast upon those who desired to exclude aliens. The law of England in this matter now depended on the statutes of the late reign, the most recent of which, the Act of 1870, removed the last disability attaching to aliens by enabling them to own real property. Why could not the Home Secretary extend the idea of this Amendment, so that instead of dealing merely with the individual it should deal with the class? The concession had been asked for from both sides of the House, and if it were granted it would probably be the best way of making rapid progress with the Bill.

MR. SPEAR (Devonshire, Tavistock)

felt so strongly that his constituents would object to the passage of the Bill if it prevented this country from continuing to be the refuge of the victims of religious persecution, that he appealed to the Prime Minister to do something to meet the generally expressed view of the House. Under the Bill, persons persecuted for their religious views would be able to obtain access to this country if they were able to come over as second-class passengers, but not if they were poor and unable to travel otherwise than in the steerage. That was surely contrary to the wishes of the Prime Minister, and he hoped the right hon. Gentleman would see his way to meet the difficulty, possibly on the basis suggested by the hon. Member for Plymouth. It had been shown, particularly in the case of the Jews, that provision was generally made by their co-religionists to prevent these people coming on the rates, but, even if it should result, in some financial less, he believed the general sentiment of the country would be in favour of England continuing to be a refuge for people who were persecuted for their religious views. The people who had made great financial sacrifices to rescue the slaves would certainly back up the Goverment in this matter. The granting of asylum to these people had not hitherto resulted in any damage to the interests of the country, and he sincerely hoped the Government would modify the Bill in the desired direction. He heartily supported the main lines of the measure for the exclusion of criminals and undesirables, but unless the Bill were modified on this point he would be compelled reluctantly to vote against it.

*CAPTAIN ELLICE (St. Andrews Burghs)

said he had listened to many speeches from the Prime Minister, and as a rule with great pleasure, but he had been extremely sorry to hear the address the right hon. Gentleman had delivered that night. Whatever the law might be, there was no doubt that the custom had been that those who suffered from religious or political persecution should be admitted to this country, and in the Journals of the House there was entered a protest by the Liberal Leaders of 1818 against the Aliens Bill of that day. With the permission of the House he would read one clause of that protest. It ran thus— Because the Bill is crue', for even when not perverted to any improper purposes, it may deter the victims of civil and religious persecution abroad from seeking refuge under the laws of a free country. He hoped that that spirit would still prevail in this Assembly, and that the Government would, even now, reconsider their determination and permit some Amendment which would embody the general expression of opinion on both sides of the House.


said the hon. Member for Tavistock seemed entirely to have ignored the great and wide concession the Government had already made in this matter. The Amendment of the Home Secretary went very far—in the opinion of many Members it went too far—and he hoped before the debate concluded the Attorney-General would explain what exactly the words meant. The present position was very serious. He repudiated in the strongest terms any desire to add to the burdens of the Jewish people, but when hon. Members spoke of religious persecution what did they really mean? Did they mean actual persecution such as occa- sionally occurred in Russia, or did they mean the normal disabilities which arose out of the administration of the Russian laws, not only to Jews, but to every subject of the Czar? Probably every person coming from Russia, whether Jew, Catholic, or member of the Orthodox Church, could with perfect justice say that according to the standards of this country he was a persecuted person, either religiously or politically. In a country where a peasant living a harmless life could not leave the village without the permission of the head man, where anybody could be imprisoned at a moment's notice on an administrative order, without trial or inquiry, where men had only to get a revolutionary leaflet put into their pocket to render them liable to imprisonment, the whole population was, from our point of view politically or religiously persecuted, and it really meant that the Committee had to consider how far the people of this country were to be made the indirect victims of the misgovernment of foreign nations.

He differed from the hon. Member for Whitechapel as to the burden imposed upon the people. There was a burden, and the influx of these aliens into certain areas entailed great hardship upon our own people. In view of the few categories the Bill was intended to exclude, he was bound to say that after the very liberal interpretation of persecution which the Government had introduced by this Amendment, they could not go much further without wrecking the whole Bill. By giving all foreigners who were persecuted and discontented free access to this country they were undertaking a very great risk indeed. In America no such exception either foe religious or political persecution was introduced into their Acts of Parliament, and it had never been complained or alleged in America that any hardship had arisen on that account, or that the American Government was reactionary or unmindful of the burdens of the Jewish people either in Russia or elsewhere. On the contrary, the Jewish community in America had protested again and again against their co-religionists being recklessly sent to the United States. There was no such provision as this in force in America, while the Jewish colonies themselves did not admit people simply because they had been the victims of persecution, but solely on the ground of their fitness as colonists. The whole of the population of Russia, according to our ideas of liberty, was a politically and religiously persecuted population, and we had to consider how far we were to be made the indirect victims of the misgovernment of foreign nations. He opposed any alteration of the Government Amendment. If any Government in Europe desired to get rid of a certain section of its population it would only be necessary, under this Amendment, to set up religious disabilities to allow of that section being sent to this country. A man might still be an undesirable alien though subjected to persecution.

As to the expulsion clause, he reminded hon. Members of the speech of the Leader of the Opposition at Limehouse, when he declared that if a man did not conform to our sanitary standard he should be sent back to the country whence he came. But among those men there would necessarily be some who came under the definition of persecuted persons. Were these to be sent away or not? If they were, then it came to this, that while to exclude a persecuted person was barbarous, to expel him after arrival was legitimate.

The hon. Member for Whitechapel had grossly misrepresented the Prime Minister's speech. The hon. Member said that those who sent back these people or supported a policy of that kind were participators in the persecution. Was it not the fact that the Jewish community spent thousands of pounds in sending back people to their homes? How, then, could it in fairness be alleged that such a policy was participating in persecution? In face of the policy pursued by the Jewish Board of Guardians so steadily for so many years with the avowed purpose of relieving the burdens which these people had caused in the East End of London, it was monstrous for the hon. Member for Whitechapel or any other hon. Member to say that those who were supporting this policy were participating in the persecution of the Jewish people. If the Jewish community found it necessary, as they did find it necessary, year after year to send thousands back to their homes, how could it be alleged that they would be doing anything wrong or harsh and unfair by attempting to exclude this small number of undesirable people who not only inflicted an injury upon the native population, but were also a grievous burden upon the Jewish community in the East End of London and many other parts of the Metropolis.


All those people are sent back at their own request, and none of them are victims of religious persecution.


said he would very much like to hear from the Government an announcement that they would be prepared to go some way towards meeting a widely-entertained feeling on both sides of the House in favour of some further concession to secure that the Bill should not be made an instrument for increasing the hardship of those who throughout Christian Europe, with the exception of Russia, were objects of very real pity. He found some difficulty, which constantly arose in these debates, in following his hon. and gallant friend, who seemed to take quite a different view of the scope of the Bill to that taken by the Government. He quite agreed with, the Prime Minister that it would be absurd to say that historically we had not been a persecuting people; but it was true that when we adopted the principle of religious liberty we did so for the whole human race, and the distinction that some people were disposed to draw—but not the Government—between our own people and foreigners was not a distinction known to English history, nor could it be defended on grounds of Christianity or reason. To say that we might exclude any aliens we chose was to enunciate a pagan doctrine difficult to reconcile with the essential part of the Christian religion that subordinated national distinctions to our moral obligations. It was no extenuation of a wrong to say it was done to a man of another nationality.

It was obvious that an oppressed person had, prima facie, a right to asylum, and if that right was withheld from him it must be shown that it was to prevent a greater evil. Could anything of the kind be shown in this case? He agreed with the Prime Minister that only a small class would be excluded under the Bill, and the whole scope of the Bill would not make a great difference to the country. It seemed to be overlooked that the burden of proving that he was the victim of persecution would be with the alien, he would have to satisfy the immigration board that he had been religiously oppressed and that that was the reason why he had passed the sea and come to this country. Unless he could prove that he would not get the benefit of the exemption, and surely the board could be trusted to discover the truth. Only a small number of persons would come within the exemption, for in the large number of cases friends would provide the refugee with sufficient money to take him outside the scope of the Bill altogether. It could make very little difference to the condition of things in the East End of London whether these few were or were not admitted, it would be no sensible eonomic factor. If they became in any considerable number chargeable to any union it would be an easy thing to relieve such union; and he was persuaded that if any community had the choice between bearing on the rates the burden of supporting the people and of sending them back to such persecution as the Jews had suffered in Russia, the community would not hesitate a moment in opening their door wide to the refugees. He would undertake to go to Stepney any day and convince the working men that that was their duty; and he was sure they would embrace it with positive enthusiasm. But they did not view this matter in its true light. What he wanted the Committee to do was to concentrate their minds on the case of an individual who had been in a scene of massacre, had lost, it might be, some of his relations, and had escaped from a place where pillage, cruelty, and all sorts of horrible acts were being perpetrated. Was he to be told that because he had not a certain property standard he was to be sent back whence he came? He was sure there was no body of Englishmen who would tolerate such a thing. Therefore, he earnestly invited the Government to adopt some remedy which would prevent this Bill from being used in a way that would be an outrage on the moral sense of every Englishman.

MR. RUNCIMAN (Dewsbury)

said the noble Lord's speech had sounded the right tone, and he was sure it would be responded to in the hearts of all the generous people of the United Kingdom. What a contrast it was to the speech they had just heard from the hon. Member for Stepney. It seemed for the time being to cut off from the hon. Member's nature every generous impulse which they believed to be characteristic of Englishmen. He was, however, not concerned so much with him as with the speech delivered that afternoon by the Prime Minister. He had had the fortune to hear that speech from beginning to end, and much as he admired the tone in which he opened, he heard many of the right hon. Gentleman's statements, first with pain, and afterwards with nothing short of disgust. The right hon. Gentleman's argument was based on two grounds. First of all, he said that the right of asylum in this country was by no means an immemorial custom, and that we at one time had been as much persecutors as were some European people at the present time. Secondly, the right hon. Gentleman stated that even if religious refugees came to this country they were to be kept out solely because they were likely to become a burden on the rates if admitted. Both these arguments were quite foreign to the people of the United Kingdom. The noble Lord had done well in choosing one particular instance. He could give the right hon. Gentleman many instances within his own knowledge of men who had been driven from Southern Russia by religious persecution, Christians as well as Jews, and had found their way to this country destitute of relations and property, men who had nothing but the clothes they were wearing, and who were bound to depend on such gratuitous generosity as they could find from the hospitable people of the United Kingdom. Were men who came under such circumstances as these to be told that they would become a charge on the rates of Stepney, and therefore we had no use for them here? The Prime Minister said we welcomed the Huguenots because we were at war with their oppressors. But the persecution from which people in Southern Russia had fled from time to time was absolutely antagonistic to the people of this country, and every sentiment which we possessed was at war with the feeling of the Russian autocracy. The philosophic hair-splitting of the right hon. Gentleman in a matter of life and death would not be accepted by the people of this country as the expression of their true and highest feelings.

*MR. J. F. HOPE (Sheffield, Brightside)

said he wished to re-echo everything that had been said on both sides of the House that the consideration of this subject must be absolutely free of the taint of anti-Semitism, which had hitherto been happily avoided in this country. The hon. Member who last spoke had truly said this was not a Jewish question alone. A Urge number of aliens who came to East London were Christian Poles, and they had been, not perhaps in equal degree, but in a very similar way subjected to the same kind of treatment as those Jews who came from the same country, and it was possible that before very long we might have incursions of subjects of the Turkish Empire coming for similar reasons. He believed that on both sides of the House there was a very genuine desire that the genuine religious refugee should not be a subject of any penal enactment; but of course they had to devise words whereby there should be some test between him and those who might abuse the protection. He could not help thinking that the words of the right hon. Baronet's Amendment were much too broad, and that if they were passed it would be competent for any alien, on being refused admission to this country, to say that the state of the law in the country he came from was not as good for the members of his religion as in England, and then it would be impossible to deny him admission. On the other hand, as to the Government Amendment, he could not help thinking that the words proposed by the Home Secretary were somewhat too narrow. He thought they should find something between the two, in order to carry out the main purposes of the Bill and at the same time deal with the special case of the man who knew that if he remained in his own country his life, or at all events his safety, would be in danger. He was not a lawyer or a draftsman, but he ventured to suggest that the Government might consider the following—"Or on account of religious belief is unable to live without danger to life or limb in the place of his domicile."


said he believed there was in every quarter of the House a real desire to arrive at a conclusion in this matter which would be satisfactory not only to the House, but to the country at large. No doubt there was no legal right of asylum here, but the traditions of this country were in favour of admitting aliens who had been subjected to religious persecution in their own countries. This question was raised on the Second Reading of the Bill, and a strong desire was expressed that some unanimous conclusion should be come to in regard to it. He believed the right hon. Baronet was not particularly wedded to the words of his Amendment. The Amendment seemed to him too broad because he used the words "treatment" and "religious body." He thought the House desired to deal rather with the individual case than with a religious body as a whole. On the other hand it appeared to him that the Government proposal was far too narrow. The Government proposal was that an individual should be allowed to come into the country if there was actually some process of law in operation against him. A person against whom there was some process of law in operation would not be allowed to leave the country at all. It was the individual who feared that a process of law would be put in operation against him in his own country who should be allowed to come in. If the Amendment of his right hon. friend the Member for the Forest of Dean were amended in the sense suggested by the hon. and learned Member for Stretford and the noble Lord the Member for Greenwich, it would meet with the unanimous acceptance of the Committee.

MR. EENWICK (Newcastle-on-Tyne)

joined in the appeal for words of greater liberality in regard to this most important question. The Government seemed to think that this was not a very large question, but he would point out to the Committee that the United States had already had to deal with it, and that they had found it a much larger question than many hon. Members seemed to believe. The United States did not deal with it on sentimental but on material grounds. In other words, they looked at it from the point of view whether the immigrants were desirable or not. If the immigrants were entering the United States to come into competition with workmen there they were not admitted. An hon. Member had stated that the Jewish body were prepared to guarantee that their destitute co-religionists would not become a charge upon the Poor Law. That was a statement which demanded the serious attention of this House. They all knew that a certain section of the Jewish community possessed enormous wealth, and that such a guarantee could easily be given. But it should be remembered that the poor Jewish aliens who came into this country entered into competition with the unfortunate people in the East End of London. He would like to call the attention of the Labour Members to the fact that these aliens were not members of trades unions, and that many of them had to work fifteen hours a day for 1s. 6d.


I think the hon. Member is getting a long way from the Amendment.


said he had no wish to travel away from the Amendment. He only wished to point out what was the effect of the competition by aliens in the East End. They had heard from the other side as to the poor rates at Stepney. The result of these conditions in the East End of London was to seriously increase the rates. He appealed to the House to cast sentiment aside and look at this question from an Imperial point of view.


said he did not intervene in order to reply to some of the very singular attacks which had been made upon him in the course of the last two hours, although he might well have asked permission to do so. One hon. Gentleman seemed to think that he was justly open to the charge of inhumanity, and that he was indifferent to the sufferings of the Jewish race in Russia and other Eastern countries because he did not think that their rights, or indeed in any serious respect their interests, would be interfered with by the Bill. He would remind the Committee that at all events they who sat on that bench could not be regarded as indifferent to the interests of the race on behalf of whom the hon. Member for Whitechapel spoke. So far as he knew, alone among the nations of the world, and certainly alone among the Governments of this country, they had offered to the Jewish race a great tract of fertile land in one of our possessions in order that they might, if they desired it—[Ironical OPPOSITION laughter]—find an asylum from their persecutors at home. He did not know whether that offer was regarded as contemptuous or derisory, he could only say that such an offer had never yet been made by any country to the people on whose behalf the hon. Gentleman spoke.

He entirely agreed with his noble friend the Member for Greenwich that they must not regard moral questions as questions purely of a particular nation. That was a commonplace of morality which no human being could deny, but his noble friend would be the first in courtesy to admit that our primary duty was to our own countryman, and that universal morality was not aided but hindered by diminishing the weight of the obligation to those nearest to us. It WAS the men who professed a universal cosmopolitanism who did least first for their family, and then for their country. He agreed that they ought to look at this from a wide standpoint, but that did not carry with it any suggestion that our obligations at home were not far more pressing than our obligations abroad. He did not read in any narrow fashion these obligations. He had put to the Committee an argument to which no speaker who followed had replied—namely, if it Were a national obligation for us to relieve the persecuted immigrants from Russia, Roumania, or wherever it might be, that obligation should fall upon the nation and not upon the particular locality. No answer had been made to that.


said that would be quite easy; the rates could be relieved.


said his noble friend was consistent and logical, though hon. Gentlemen opposite were consistent less often than he could desire. He largely agreed with his noble friend. He thought that if this country regarded it as its duty, in the face of some sudden persecution, or some sudden series of outrages upon an alien population, to give them an asylum, they must do it on some broad ground and let that House contribute. His noble friend agreed. [OPPOSITION cries of "We are all agreed."] That was the first suggestion he had heard of such agreement. No one during the last three or four hours had suggested that the proper way of dealing with the matter was by a Vote on the Estimates, nor was he aware that any such Vote had ever been passed.


The "Poor Palatines."


Well, there was the case of the Lisbon earthquake in 1705, which case was in his mind. This House did, it was true, contribute to mitigate the horrors consequent upon the Lisbon earthquake, but a great national calamity was not a contingency dealt with by this Amendment, which would simply throw on the ratepayers of a particular district the obligation of carrying out what it was suggested was a national responsibility. The real difficulty about this question was, after all, not the question of principle, but the difficulty of draftsmanship. There was a difficulty in the shades of difference that constituted religious or political persecution. When a man was brought up on a political or a religious charge, and given a definite punishment, the case might be clear. But by sensible modifications such cases shaded off to a point where it was almost impossible to say whether a man truly was the victim of what ought to be called religious perse- cution, or whether he was using the fact that his life was made rather disagreeable to him in his own country as a reason for making himself a charge upon ours. The first of those cases they thought ought to be admitted. Possibly the words of the Government were too stringent; but he was certain the words of the right hon. Gentleman were far too lax. Perhaps they might agree on some formula between the two. He would suggest the addition to the Amendment of his right hon. friend the Home Secretary of other words which would make the whole Amendment read as follows—"Solely to avoid prosecution or punishment on religious grounds, or for an offence of a political nature, or to avoid danger to life or limb on account of his religious beliefs."[OPPOSITION cries of "Persecution."] Persecution was an extremely vague term, and he thought it would be better not to use it.

MR. ASQUITH (Fifeshire, E.)

suggested that "or liberty" should be added to "life or limb."


thought the term was perhaps too wide, while "persecution" was far too vague. Perhaps it would be better to use the words "or danger of imprisonment." [OPPOSITION cries of "No."]


said that what was wanted was to avoid danger to life, limb, or liberty on account of religious belief. So far as he was concerned he believed that the words of the Prime Minister would cover substantially all the cases which the Committee desired to see covered.




said he thought the word "imprisonment" was much too narrow. There were various other forms of coercion which amounted to a very serious disability. He would suggest the words, "or persecution involving danger to life, limb, or liberty."


asked if that incorporated in the Bill the doctrine against religious persecution? It seemed to him that it made it clear that we did not hold the right of asylum.


thought the following terms might meet nearly everybody's views: "In order to avoid persecution involving danger of imprisonment or danger to life or limb."


said he had no objection to the word persecution; if qualified in some such way as was suggested it would satisfy him.


; I think these words will meet the view of hon. Gentlemen opposite: "In order to avoid persecution involving danger of imprisonment or danger to life or limb. "[Cries of "Why not 'liberty.'"]


said that if the Prime Minister had accepted the suggestion of his right hon. friend the Member for East Fife he should have at once withdrawn his Amendment, or he would have been willing to withdraw if he had accepted the suggestion of the noble Lord the Member for Greenwich or that made by the hon. Member for the Stretford Division.


said he did not think the difference between "imprisonment" and "liberty" was very great. He suggested that they should put in "liberty" now and consider whether they should put in "imprisonment" on the Report stage.


thought the words of the Prime Minister would cover substantially all the cases which the Committee desired to see covered.




May I appeal to the right hon. Baronet not to press his Amendment.


I certainly will not withdraw unless we get something more definite.

MR. JOHN BURNS (Battersea)

said the Prime Minister on his own initiative and by his own volition suggested "liberty" in the first instance. [Cries of "No."] He appealed to the right hon. Gentleman not to be influenced by certain unchari- table words which had been addressed to him, but to stick to the words "life limb, and liberty," all of which connoted and denoted what the House on both sides were prepared to agree to without a division. He appealed to the Prime Minister to rise to the level of the occasion and let them settle this matter without a division.


I should like to explain the position we are in. If this Amendment is defeated it will be after eleven o'clock, and then I cannot put any Amendment except the Government Amendments. If this matter is not settled before eleven o'clock then I must put the Amendment on the Paper and no other.


again appealed to the Government to include the word "liberty," because "imprisonment" would not include such obvious cases as the confiscation of property.


said, as he had already pointed out, the word "liberty" would have far too wide an application.


urged the Prime Minister to accept the word "liberty," and pointed out that any difficulties such as the objections raised to this word by the right hon. Gentleman could be settled by regulations, which in the past had been made in regard to similar matters.


, whose remarks were almost inaudible in the Press Gallery, was understood to say that he hoped the Government would not agree to any compromise upon this question, because the compromise which had been suggested would make it possible for the 5,000,000 Jews in Russia to come to this country, and become competitors with the unskilled labourers in this country. They had no right to be generous at other people's expense. [OPPOSITION cries of "Divide, divide."] Hon. Members might call out "Divide, divide," but he claimed that he had as much right to have his say upon this subject of Jewish persecution as any other hon. Member. [More interruptions and cries of "go on" and "Agreed."] The people who were oppressed ought to take their part as men in their own country in upsetting and overthrowing the misrule which oppressed them, and which was condemned by all right thinking men throughout the civilised world. [Cries of "Divide, divide."] He thought the Government, should adhere to their proposal—

And, it being Eleven of the clock, the Chairman proceeded, in pursuance of the Order of the House of the 5th July, to

put the Question on the Amendment already proposed from the Chair.

Question put, "That the words 'by reason of the treatment of the religious body to which he belongs or' be there inserted."

The Committee divided:—Ayes, 189; Noes, 223. (Division List No. 257.)

Abraham, William (Cork, N.E. Fenwick, Charles Murphy, John
Abraham, William (Rhondda) Field, William Nolan, Col. John P. (Galway,N
Allen, Charles P. Findlay, Alex. (Lanark, N.E. Nolan, Joseph (Louth, South)
Ashton, Thomas Gair Fitzmaurice, Lord Edmond Norman, Henry
Asquith, Rt.Hn. Herb. Henry Flavin, Michael Joseph Nussey, Thomas Willans
Atherley-Jones, L. Flynn, James Christopher O'Brien, K. (Tipperary Mid)
Austin, Sir John Foster, Sir Walter (Derby Co.) O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny)
Baker, Joseph Allen Fowler, Rt. Hon. Sir Henry O'Brien, P. J. (Tipperary, N.)
Barlow, John Emmott Freeman-Thomas, Captain F. O'Connor, James (Wicklow,W.
Barran, Rowland Hirst Fuller, J. M. F. O'Connor, John (Kildare, N.)
Beaumont, Wentworth C. B. Gladstone. Rt. Hn. Herb, John O'Dowd, John
Benn, John Williams Griffith, Ellis J. O'Kelly, Conor (Mayo, N.)
Black, Alexander William Gurdon, Sir W. Brampton O'Kelly, James (Roscommon,N
Boland, John Haldane, Rt. Hn. Richard B. O'Malley, William
Bolton, Thomas Dolling Hammond. John O'Shaughnessy, P. J.
Brigg, John Harcourt, Lewis Parrott, William
Bright, Allan Hey wood Hardie, J Keir (Merthyr Tydvil Partington, Oswald
Brunner, Sir John Tomlinson Harmsworth, R. Leicester Paulton, James Mellor
Bryce, Rt. Hon. James Harwood, George Pease, J.A. (Saffron Walden
Buchanan, Thomas Ryburn Hayden, John Patrick Perks, Robert William
Burke, E. Haviland Helme, Norval Watson Philipps, John Wynford
Burns, John Higham, John Sharp Pirie, Duncan V.
Burt, Thomas Holland, Sir William Henry Power, Patrick Joseph
Buxton, N.E. (YorkNRWhitby Hutchinson, Dr. Chas. Fredk. Price, Robert John
Buxton, Sydney Chas. (Poplar Hutton, Alfred E. (Motley) Priestley, Arthur
Caldwell, James Isaacs, Rufus Daniel Rea, Russell
Cameron, Robert Jacoby, James Alfred Reckitt, Harold James
Campbell John (Armagh, S.) Joicey, Sir James Reddy, M.
Campbell-Bannerman, Sir, H. Jones, David B. (Swansea) Redmond, John E. (Waterford
Causton Richard Knight Jones, Leif (Appleby) Rickett, J. Compton
Cawley, Frederick Jones, Wm. (Carnarvonshire) Roberts, John Bryn (Eifion)
Channing, Francis Allston Joyce, Michael Roberts, John H. (Denbighs.)
Gheetham, John Frederick Kearley, Hudson E. Robson, William Snowdon
Churchill, Winston Spencer Kennedy, Vincent P. (CavanW. Roe, Sir Thomas
Condon, Thomas Joseph Lambert, George Rose, Charles Day
Cremer, William Randal Lamont, Norman Runciman Walter
Crombie, John William Langley, Batty Russell, T. W.
Crooks, William Lawson, Sir Wilfrid (Cornwall) Samuel, Herb. L. (Cleveland)
Cullinan, J. Layland-Barratt, Francis Schwann, Charles E.
Dalziel, James Henry Leese, Sir J. F. (Accrington) Seely, MajJEB(Isle of Wight)
Davies, M. Vanghan (Cardigan Leng, Sir John Shaw, Charles Edw. (Stafford)
Delany, William Levy, Maurice Sheehy, David
Devlin, Chas. Ramsay (Galway Lewis John Herbert Shipman, Dr. John G.
Dewar, John A. (Inverness-sh. Lough Thomas Sinclair, John (Forfarshire)
Dickson-Poynder, Sir John P. Lundon, W. Slack, John Bamford
Dobbie, Joseph Lyell, Chas. Henry Smith, Samuel (Flint)
Donelan, Captain A. MacNeill. John Gordon Swift Soames, Arthur Wellesley
Doogan, P. C. MacVeagh, Jeremiah Soares, Ernest J.
Douglas, Chas. M. (Lanark) M'Arthur, William (Cornwall) Spencer, Rt. Hn.CR(Northants
Duncan, J. Hastings M'Crae, George Stanhope, Hon. Philip James
Dunn, Sir William M'Kean, John Sullivan, Donal
Edwards, Frank M'Laren, Sir Charles Benjamin Taylor, Theodore C(Radcliffe)
Ellice, Capt EC(SAndrw'sB'ghs Mansfield, Horace Rendall Tennant, Harold John
Ellis, John Edward (Notts) Markham, Arthur Basil Thomas, Abel (Carmarthen, E.
Emmott, Alfred Mooney, John J. Thomson, F. W. (York, W.R.)
Esmonde, Sir Thomas Morgan, J. Lloyd (Carmarthen Tomkinson, James
Eve, Harry Trelawney Moulton, John Fletcher Toulmin, George
Trevelyan, Charles Philips Whitley, J. H. (Halifax) Younger, William
Wallace, Robert Whittaker, Thomas Palmer Yoxall, James Henry
Walton, Joseph (Barnsley) Williams, Osmond (Merioneth) TELLERS FOR THE AYES—Sir
Wason, Eugene (Clackmannan Wilson, Chas. Henry (Hull, W. Charles Dilke and Mr
Wason, John Cathcart(Orkney) Wilson, Fred W. (Norfolk, Mid Stuart Samuel
Weir, James Galloway Wilson, Henry J. (York, W.R.
White, Luke (York, E R.) Wilson, John (Durham, Mid.)
Whiteley, George (York, W.R.) Woodhouse, SirJT(Huddersf'd
Agg-Gardner, James Tynte Fellowes, RtHnAilwynEdward Legge, Col. Hon. Heneage
Agnew, Sir Andrew Noel Fergusson, Rt. Hn SirJ(Manc'r Lockwood, Lieut.- Col. A. R.
Allsopp, Hn. George Finch, Rt. Hon. George H. Long, Col. Chas. W. (Evesham
Anson, Sir William Reynell Finlay, SirR.B.(Inv'rn'ssB'ghs Long, RtHnWalter(Bristol, S.
Arkwright, John Stanhope Fisher, William Hayes Lonsdale, John Brownlee
Arnold-Forster, Rt. Hn. H. O. Flannery, Sir Fortescue Loyd, Archie Kirkman
Arrol, Sir William Flower, Sir Ernest Lucas, Col. Francis (Lowestoft
Atkinson, Rt. Hn. John Forster, Henry William Lucas, Reginald J (Portsmouth
Baget, Capt Josceline FitzRoy Galloway, William Johnson Lyttelton, Rt. Hon. Alfred
Bailey, James (Walworth) Gardner, Ernest Macdona, John Cumming
Bain, Colonel James Robert Garfit, William MacIver, David (Liverpool)
Balcarres, Lord Gibbs, Hn. A. G. H. Maconochie, A. W.
Balfour, Rt. Hn. A.J(Manch'r. Godson, Sir Augustus Fredk. M'Arthur, Charles (Liverpool)
Balfour, Capt. C. B. (Hornsey) Gordon, HnJE (Elgin & Nairn) M'Iver,.SirLewis(EdinburghW.
Balfour, Rt Hn GeraldW(Leeds Gordon, MajEvans(T'rH'mlets M'Killop, James (Stirlingsh.
Balfour, Kenneth R. (Christch. Gore, Hn. S. F. Ormsby- Malcolm, Ian
Banbury, Sir Frederick George Goschen, Hn. George Joachim Manners, Lord Cecil
Bartley, Sir George C T. Goulding, Edward Alfred Marks, Harry Hananel
Bathurst, Hn. Allen Benjamin Graham, Henry Robert Martin, Richard Biddulph
Bentinck, Lord Henry C. Gray, Ernest (West Ham Melville, Beresford Valentine
Bhownaggree, Sir M. M. Greene, H. D. (Shrewsbury) Middlemore, J. Throgmorton
Bignold, Sir Arthur Greene, W. Raymond (Cambs.) Milvain, Thomas
Bigwood, James Grenfell, William Henry Molesworth, Sir Lewis
Bill, Charles Greville, Hn. Ronald Montagu, Hn. J. Scott (Hants)
Bingham, Lord Groves, James Grimble Moon, Edward Robert Pacy
Blundell, Colonel Henry Hall, Edward Marshall Morgan, D. J. (Walthamstow)
Bond, Edward Halsey, Rt. Hn. Thomas F. Morrell, George Herbert.
Brassey, Albert Hambro, Charles Eric Morrison, James Archibald
Brodrick, Rt. Hn. St. John Hamilton,Marq of(L'nd'nderry Morton, Arthur H. Aylmer
Brymer, William Ernest Hardy, L. (Kent, Ashford) Mount, William Arthur
Bull, William James Hare, Thomas Leigh Mowbray, Sir Robert Gray C.
Butcher, John George Hay, Hon. Claude George. Muntz, Sir Philip A.
Carson, Rt. Hn. Sir Edw. H Heath, Arthur Howard(Hartley Murray, Col. Wyndham (Bath)
Cavendish, V.C.W. (Derbysh. Heaton, John Henniker Myers, William Henry
Cayzer, Sir Charles William Henderson, Sir A. (Stafford, W. Nicholson, William Graham
Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor) Hermon-Hodge, Sir Robert T. Palmer, Sir Walter (Salisbury)
Cecil, Lord Hugh (Greenwich) Hill, Henry Staveley Parker, Sir Gilbert
Chamberlain, RtHnJ. A. (Worc. Hoare, Sir Samuel Pease, Herb. Pike (Darlington
Chamberlayne, T.(S thampton Hogg, Lindsay Peel, Hn. Wm. Robt.Wellesley
Chapman, Edward Hope, J F(Sheffield, Brightside Percy, Earl
Clive, CaptainPercy A. Houldsworth, Sir Wm. Henry Pierpoint, Robert
Coates, Edward Feetham Hoult, Joseph Platt-Higgins, Frederick
Cochrane, Hn. Thos. H. A. E. Houston, Robert Paterson Plummer, Sir Walter R.
Colston, Chas. Edw. H. Athole Howard, J. (Kent, Faversham Powell, Sir Francis Sharp
Cook, Sir Frederick Lucas Hozier, Hn. James Henry Cecil Pretyman, Ernest George
Corbett, T. L. (Down, North) Hunt, Rowland Pryce-Jones, Lt. Col. Edward
Cripps, Charles Alfred Jameson, Major J. Eustace Purvis, Robert
Cross, Alexander (Glasgow) Jebb, Sir Richard Claverhouse Pym, C. Guy
Cubitt, Hon. Henry Jeffreys, Rt. Hn. Arthur Fred Rankin, Sir James
Delkeith, Earl of Kenyon, Hn. Geo. T. (Denbigh Ratcliff, R. F.
Dalrymple, Sir Charles Kenyon-Slaney, Rt. Hn. Col.W Reid, James (Greenock)
Davenport, Wm. Bromley Kerr, John Remnant, James Farquharson
Dickinson, Robert Edmond Keswick, William Renwick, George
Dickson, Charles Scott Kimber, Sir Henry Ridley, S. Forde
Dimsdale, Rt. Hn.Sir Joseph C King, Sir Henry Seymour Ritchie, Rt Hn Chas. Thomson
Disraeli, Coningsby Ralph Laurie, Lieut.-General Roberts, Samuel (Sheffield)
Douglas, Rt. Hn. A. Akers- Law, Andrew Bonar (Glasgow) Robertson, Herb. (Hackney)
Duke, Henry Edward Lawrence, Wm. F. (Liverpool) Rollit, Sir Albert Kaye
Egerton, Hn. A. de Tatton Lawson, Hn. H.L.W(Mile End Round, Rt. Hon. James
Faber, Edmund B. (Hants., W Lee, Arthur H (Hants,Fareham Royds, Clement Molyneux
Faber, George Denison (York) Lees, Sir Elliott (Birkenhead) Rutherford, John (Lancashire
Rutherford, W. W. (Liverpool) Stewart, Sir Mark J M'Taggart Welby, Sir Chas. G.E. (Notts.)
Sackville, Col. S. G. Stopford Stock, James Henry Wentworth, Bruce C. Vernon
Sadler, Col. Samuel Alexander Strutt, Hon. Charles Hedley Wharton, Rt. Hn. John Lloyd
Saunderson, RtHn Col.Edw. J. Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester) Whiteley, H. (Ashton undLyne
Scott, Sir S. (Marylebone, W. Taylor, Austin (East Toxteth Wilson, John (Glasgow)
Seely, Charles Hilton (Lincoln) Thorburn, Sir Walter Wilson-Todd, Sir W.H. (Yorks
Sharpe, William Edward T. Tollemache, Henry James Wolff, Gustav Wilhelm
Shaw-Stewart, Sir H(Renfrew) Tomlinson, Sir Wm. Edw. M. Worsley-Taylor, Henry Wilson
Skewes-Cox. Thomas Tuff, Charles Wrightson, Sir Thomas
Smith, Abel H (Hertford, East) Tufnell, Lieut,- Col. Edward Wyndham-Quin, Col. W. H.
Smith, HC(North'mbTyneside Tuke, Sir John Batty TELLERS FOR. THE NOES—Sir
Smith, RtHnJParker (Lanarks Vincent, Sir Edgar (Exeter) Alexander Acland-Hood and
Smith, Hon. W. F. D. (Strand) Walrond, Rt. Hn. Sir Wm. H. Viscount Valentia.
Spear, John Ward Warde, Colonel C. E.
Stanley, Rt. Hn. Lord (Lancs.) Welby, Lt.-ColA.C. E.(Taunton

Question, "That the Amendment be made," put, and agreed to.

The Chairman then proceeded successively to put forthwith the Question on any Amendments moved by the Government of which notice had been given, and on every Question necessary to dispose of the business allotted to the sitting.

Amendment proposed— In page 2, line 12, at the end, to insert the words, 'nor shall leave to land be withheld in the case of an immigrant who shows to the satisfaction of the immigration officer or board concerned with the case that, having taken his ticket in the United Kingdom and embarked direct therefrom for some other country immediately after a period of residence in the United Kingdom of not less than six months, he has been refused admission in that country and returned direct therefrom to a port in the United Kingdom.' "—(Mr. Secretary Akers-Douglas.)

Amendment proposed— After the words last inserted, to insert the words, 'and leave to land shall not be refused merely on the ground of want of means to any immigrant who satisfies the immigration officer or board concerned with the case that he was born in the United Kingdom, his father being a British subject, and that he intends to make

only a temporary stay in the United Kingdom.'"—(Mr. Secretary Akers-Douglas.)

Amendment proposed— In page 2, line 17, at the end, to insert the words 'or if security is given to his satisfaction that undesirable immigrants will not be landed in the United Kingdom from those ships except for the purpose of transit.'"—(Mr. Secretary Akers-Douglas.)

Amendment proposed— In page 2, line 22, at the end to insert the words 'but an immigrant conditionally disembarked shall not be deemed to have landed so long as the conditions are complied with.'"—(Mr. Secretary Akers-Douglas.)

Question put, "That the clause, as amended, stand part of the Bill."

The Committee divided:—Ayes, 237; Noes, 188. (Division List No. 258.)

Agg-Gardner, James Tynte Anson, Sir William Reynell Arrol, Sir William
Agnew, Sir Andrew Noel Arkwright, John Stanhope Atkinson, Rt. Hn. John
Allsopp, Hon. George Arnold-Forster, Rt. Hn. H. O. Bagot, Capt Josceline FitzRoy
Bailey, James (Walworth) Graham, Henry Robert Morgan, D. J. (Walthamstow)
Bain, Colonel James Robert Gray, Ernest (West Ham) Morrell, George Herbert
Balcarres, Lord Greene, Henry D. (Shrewsbury Morrison, James Archibald
Balfour, RtHn. A.J. (Manch'r) Greene, W. Raymond (Cambs.) Morton, Arthur H. Aylmer
Balfour, Capt. C. B. (Hornsey) Grenfell, William Henry Mount, William Arthur
Balfour, Rt Hn GeraldW(Leeds Greville, Hon. Ronald Mowbray, Sir Robert Gray C.
Balfour, Kenneth R. (Christch. Groves, James Grimble Muntz, Sir Philip A.
Banbury, Sir Frederick George Hall, Edward Marshall Murray, Col. Wyndham (Bath)
Bartley, Sir George C. T. Halsey, Rt. Hon. Thomas F. Myers, William Henry
Bathurst, Hn. Allen Benjamin Hambro, Charles Eric Nicholson, William Graham
Bentinck, Lord Henry C. Hamilton, Marq of L'nd'nderry Palmer, Sir Walter (Salisbury)
Bhownaggree, Sir M. M. Hardy, L. (Kent, Ashford) Parker, Sir Gilbert
Bignold, Sir Arthur Hare, Thomas Leigh Pease, Herb. Pike (Darlington
Bigwood, James Hay, Hon. Claude George Peel, Hn. Wm. Robt, Wellesley
Bill, Charles Heath, Arthur H. (Hanley) Percy, Earl
Bingham, Lord Heath, Sir Jas. (Staffords,NW Pierpoint, Robert
Blundell, Colonel Henry Heaton, John Henniker Platt-Higgins, Frederick
Bond, Edward Henderson, Sir A(Stafford, W. Plummer, Sir Walter R.
Brassey, Albert Hermon-Hodgo, Sir Robert T. Powell, Sir Francis Sharp
Brodrick, Rt. Hon. St. John Hickman, Sir Alfred Pretyman, Ernest George
Brymer, William Ernest Hill, Henry Staveley Pryee-Jones, Lt.-Col Edward
Bull, William James Hoare, Sir Samuel Purvis, Robert
Butcher, John George Hogg, Lindsay Pym, C. Guy
Buxton, Sydney Chas (Poplar Hope, J F (Sheffield,Brightside Rankin, Sir James
Carson, Rt. Hn. Sir Edw. H. Houldsworth, Sir Wm. Henry Ratcliff, R. F.
Cavendish, V. O. W. (Derbysh. Hoult, Joseph Reid, James (Greenock)
Cayzer, Sir Charles William Houston, Robert Paterson Remnant, James Farquharson
Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor Howard, J. (Kent,Faversham Renwick, George
Cecil, Lord Hugh (Greenwich) Hozier, Hon. James HenryCecil Ridley, S. Forde
Chamberlain, RtHnJ. A. (Worc. Hunt, Rowland Ritchie, Rt. Hn. ChasThomson
Chamberlayne, T. (S'thampton Jameson, Major J. Eustace Roberts, Samuel (Sheffield)
Chapman, Edward ebb, Sir Richard Claverhouse Robertson, Herb. (Hackney)
Clive, Captain Percy A. Jeffreys, Rt. Hn. Arthur Fred Rollit, Sir Albert Kaye
Coates, Edward Feetham Jessel, Captain HerbertMerton Round, Rt. Hon. James
Cochrane, Hn. Thos. H.A.E. Kenyon, Hn. Geo. T. (Denbigh Royds, Clement Molyneaux
Colston, Chas Edw H Athole Kenyon-Slaney, RtHn. Col W. Rutherford, John (Lancashire
Cook, Sir Frederick Lucas Kerr, John Rutherford, W.W. (Liverpool)
Corbett, T. L. (Down, North Keswick, William Sackville, Col. S. G. Stopford
Cross, Charles Alfred Kimber, Sir Henry Sadler, Col. Samuel Alexander
Cross, Alexander (Glasgow) King, Sir Henry Seymour Samuel, Sir H. S. (Limehouse)
Cubitt, Hon. Henry Lamont, Norman Saunderson, Rt.HnColEdw. J.
Dalkeith, Earl of Laurie, Lieut-General Scott, Sir S. (Marylebone, W.)
Dalrymple, Sir Charles Law, Andrew Bonar (Glasgow) Sharpe, William Edward
Davenport, William Bromley Lawrence, Wm. F. (Liverpool) Shaw-Stewart, Sir H (Renfrew
Denny, Colonel Lawson, Hn H L W (Mile End) Skewes-Cox, Thomas
Dickinson, Robert Edmond Lee, ArthurH. (Hants,Fareham Smith, Abel H. (Hertford, East
Dickson, Charles Scott Lees, Sir Elliott (Birkenhead) Smith,H.C (North'mbTyneside
Dimsdale, RtHn. Sir Joseph C. Legge, Col. Hon. Heneage Smith, Rt HnJ Parker(Lanarks
Disraeli, Coningsby Ralph Lookwood, Lieut.- Col. A. R. Smith, Hn. W. F. D. (Strand)
Doughty, Sir George Long, Col Chas W(Evesham) Spear, John Ward
Douglas, Rt. Hn. A. Akers- Long, RtHn Walter (Bristol, S. Stanley, Rt Hn Lord (Lancs)
Duke, Henry Edward Lonsdale, John Brownlee Stewart, Sir M. J. M'Taggart
Egerton, Hon. A. de Tatton Loyd, Archie Kirkman Stirling-Maxwell, Sir John M.
Faber, Admund B. (Hants, W. Lucas, Col. Francis (Lowestoft Stock, James Henry
Faber, George. Denison (York) Lucas, Reginald J. (Portsm'th Strutt, Hn. Charles Hedley
Fellowes, RtHnAilwynEdward Lyttelton, Rt. Hn. Alfred Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester)
Fergusson, Rt. HnSirJ(Manc'r. Macdona, John Cumming Taylor, Austin (East Toxteth)
Finch, Rt. Hon. George H. MacIver, David (Liverpool) Thorburn, Sir Walter
Finlay, Sir R. B(Inv'rn'ssB'ghs Maconochie, A. W. Thornton, Percy M.
Fisher, William Hayes MacVeagh, Jeremiah Tollemache, Henry James
Flannery, Sir Fortescue M'Arthur, Chas. (Liverpool) Tomlinson, Sir Wm. Edw. M.
Flower, Sir Ernest M'Iver, SirLewis(Edinburgh,W Tritton, Charles Ernest
Forster, Henry William M'Killop, James (Stirlingshire Tuff, Charles
Galloway, William Johnson Malcolm, Ian Tuffnell, Lieut.-Col Edward
Gardner, Ernest Manners, Lord Cecil Tuke, Sir John Batty
Garfit, William Marks, Harry Hananel Vincent, Sir Edgar (Exeter)
Gibbs, Hon. A. G. H. Martin, Richard Biddulph Walrond, Rt. Hn. Sir Wm. H.
Godson, Sir Augustus Fredk Melville, Beresford Valentine Warde, Colonel C. E.
Gordon, Hn J E (Elgin&Nairn) Middlemore, J. Throgmorton Welby, Lt.-Col ACE(Taunton)
Gordon, MajEvans(T'rH'mlets Milvain, Thomas Welby, Sir Charles G. E(Notts
Gore, Hon. S. F. Ormsby- Molesworth, Sir Lewis Wentworth, Bruce C. Vernon
Goschen, Hn. George Joachim Montagu, Hn. J. Scott (Hants Wharton, Rt. Hn. John Lloyd
Goulding, Edward Alfred Moon, Edward Robert Pacy
Whiteley, H.(Ashton und Lyne Wilson-Todd, Sir W H (Yorks.) TELLERS FOR THE AYES—Sir
Whitmore, Charles Algernon Wolff, Gustav Wilhelm Alexander Acland-Hood and
Willoughby de Eresby, Lord Worsley-Taylor, Henry Wilson Viscount Valentia.
Wilson, A. Stanley (York, E. R Wrightson, Sir Thomas
Wilson, John (Glasgow) Wyndham-Quin, Col. W. H.
Abraham, Wm. (Cork, N.E.) Fitzmaurice, Lord Edmond O'Dowd, John
Abraham, William (Rhondda) Flavin, Michael Joseph O'Kelly, Conor (Mayo, N.)
Allen, Charles P. Flynn, James Christopher O'Kelly, James(Roscommon,N
Ashton, Thomas Gair Foster, Sir Walter (Derby Co.) O'Malley, William
Asquith, Rt. Hn. Herb. Henry Fowler, Rt. Hon. Sir Henry O'Shaughnessy, P. J.
Atherley-Jones, L. Freeman-Thomas, Captain F. Parrott, William
Austin, Sir John Fuller, J. M. F. Partington, Oswald
Baker, Joseph Allen Grey, Rt. Hn. Sir E.(Berwick Paulton, James Mellor
Barlow, John Emmott Griffith, Ellis J. Pearson, Sir Weetman D.
Barran, Rowland Hirst Gurdon, Sir W. Brampton Pease, J. A. (Saffron Walden
Beaumont, Wentworth C. B. Haldane, Rt. Hon. Richard B. Perks, Robert William
Benn, John Williams Hammond, John Philipps, John Wynford
Black, Alexander William Hardie, J. Keir(MerthyrTydvil Pirie, Duncan V.
Boland, John Harmsworth, R. Leicester Power, Patrick Joseph
Bolton, Thomas Dolling Harwood, George Price, Robert John
Brigg, John Hayden, John Patrick Priestley, Arthur
Bright, Allan Heywood Holme, Norval Watson Rea, Russell
Brunner, Sir John Tomlinson Higham, John Sharp Reckitt, Harold James
Bryee, Rt. Hon. James Holland, Sir William Henry Reddy, M.
Buchanan, Thomas Ryburn Hutchinson, Dr. Chas. Fredk. Redmond, John E. (Waterford
Burke, E. Haviland Hutton, Alfred E. (Morley) Rickett, J. Compton
Burns, John Isaacs, Rufus Daniel Roberts, John Bryn (Eifion)
Burt, Thomas Jacoby, James Alfred Roberts, John H. (Denbighs.)
Buxton,N.E(York,NR,Whitby Joicey, Sir James Robson, William Snowdon
Caldwell, James Jones, David B. (Swansea Roe, Sir Thomas
Cameron, Robert Jones, Leif (Appleby) Rose, Charles Day
Campbell, John (Armagh, S.) Jones, William (Carnarvonsh. Runciman, Walter
Campbell-Bannerman, Sir H. Joyce, Michael Russell, T. W.
Causton, Richard Knight Kearley, Hudson E. Samuel, Herb. L. (Cleveland)
Cawley, Frederick Kennedy, Vincent P(Cavan, W Samuel, S. M. (Whitechapel)
Channing, Francis Allston Lambert, George Schwann, Charles E.
Cheetham, John Frederick Langley, Batty Seely, Maj. J.E.B. (IsleofWight
Churchill, Winston Spencer. Law, Hugh Alex (Donegal, W. Shaw, Chas. Edw. (Stafford)
Condon, Thomas Joseph Lawson, Sir Wilfrid (Cornwall Sheehy, David
Cremer, William Randal Layland-Barratt, Francis Shipman, Dr. John G.
Crombie, John William Leese, Sir J. F. (Aecrington) Sinclair, John (Forfarshire)
Crooks, William Leng, Sir John Slack, John Bamford
Cullinan, J. Levy, Maurice Smith, Samuel (Flint)
Dalziel, James Henry Lewis, John Herbert Soames, Arthur Wellesley
Davies, M. Vaughan (Cardigay Lough, Thomas Soares, Ernest J.
Delany, William Luudon, W. Spencer, Rt Hn C R(Northants
Devlin, Chas. Ramsay (Galway Lyell, Charles Henry Stanhope, Hon. Hn. Philip Jas.
Dewar, John A. (Inverness-sh MacNeill, John Gordon Swift Sullivan, Donal
Dickson-Poynder, Sir John P. M'Crae, George Taylor, Theodore C.(Radcliffe)
Dilke, Rt. Hon. Sir Charles M'Kean, John Tennant, Harold John
Dobbie, Joseph M'Laren, Sir Chas. Benjamin Thomas, Abel (Carmarthen, E.
Donclan, Captain A. Mansfield, Horace Rendall Thomson, F. W. (York, W.R.)
Doogan, P. C. Markham, Arthur Basil Tomkinson, James
Douglas, Charles M. (Lanark) Mooney, John J. Toulmin, George
Duncan, J. Hastings Morgan, J. Lloyd (Carmarthen Trevelyan, Charles Philips
Dunn, Sir William Moulton, John Fletcher Wallace, Robert
Edwards, Frank Murphy, John Walton, Joseph (Barnsley)
Elibank, Master of Nolan, Col. John P(Galway, N. Wason, Eugene (Clackmannan
Ellice,CaptEC (SAndrw'sB'ghs Nolan, Joseph (Louth, South) Wason, John Cathcart(Orkney
Ellis, John Edward (Notts) Norman, Henry Weir, James Galloway
Emmott, Alfred Nussey, Thomas Willans White, Luke (York, E. R.)
Esmonde, Sir Thomas O'Brien, K. (Tipperary, Mid Whiteley, George (York, W.R.
Eve, Harry Trelawney O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny) Whitley, J. H. (Halifax)
Fenwick, Charles O'Brien, P. J. (Tipperary, N. Whittaker, Thomas Palmer
Field, William O'Connor, James (Wicklow,W Williams, Osmond (Merioneth)
Findlay, Alex. (Lanark, N.E,) O'Connor, John (Kildare, N.)
Wilson, Chas. Henry (Hull, W. Wilson, John (Durham, Mid TELLERS FOR THE NOES—Mr.
Wilson, FredW(Norfolk, Mid.) Woodhouse, SirJT(Huddersf'd Herbert Gladstone and Mr.
Wilson, Henry J. (York, W.R.) Yoxall, James Henry William M'Arthur.

Question, "That the Amendment be made," put, and agreed to.

Clause 2:—

Amendment proposed— In page 2, line 30, to leave out the word 'landing of immigrants for the purpose of,' and insert the words 'disembarkation of immigrants for the purpose of inspection'"—(Mr. Secretary Akers-Douglas)—instead thereof.

Amendment proposed— In page 2, line 33, to leave out the words 'holding of meetings of the board if convenient on an immigrant ship,' and insert the words 'place of meeting of the board.'"—(Mr. Secretary Akers-Douglas)—instead thereof.

Amendment proposed— In page 2, line 36, to leave out the word landed,' and insert the word 'disembarked.'

—(Mr. Secretary Akers-Douglas)— instead thereof.

Amendment proposed— In page 2, line 36, at the end, to insert the words 'Rules made under this section shall provide for notice being given to masters of immigrant ships and immigrants informing them of their right of appeal, and also, where leave to land is withheld in the case of any immigrant by the immigration officer, for notice being given to the immigrant and the master of the immigrant ship of the grounds on which leave has been withheld.'"—(Mr. Secretary Akers-Douglas.)

Question put, "That the clause, as amended, stand part of the Bill."

The Committee divided;—Ayes, 237; Noes, 187. (Division List No. 259.)

Agg-Gardner, James Tynte Bathurst, Hn. Allen Benjamin Chamberlain.Rt.Hn. J. (Birm.)
Agnew, Sir Andrew Noel Bentinck, Lord Henry C. Chamberlain,Rt.HnJA.(Wore)
Allsopp, Hon, George Bhownaggree, Sir M. M. Chamberlayne,T. (S'thampton)
Anson, Sir William Reynell Bignold, Sir Arthur Chapman, Edward
Arkwright, John Stanhope Bigwcod, James Clive, Captain Percy A.
Arnold-Forster,Rt.Hn.Hugh O. Bingham, Lord Coates, Edward Feetham
Arrol, Sir William Blundell, Colonel Henry Cochrane, Hn Thos H. A. E.
Atkinson, Rt. Hon. John Bond, Edward Colston, Chas. Edw. H. Athole
Bagot, Capt. Josceline FitzRoy Brassey, Albert Cook, Sir Frederick Lucas
Bailey, James (Walworth) Brodrick, Rt. Hn. St. John Corbett, T. L. (Down, North)
Bain, Colonel James Robert Brymer, William Ernest Cripps, Chas. Alfred
Balcarres, Lord Bull, William James Cross, Alexander (Glasgow)
Balfour, Rt. Hn. A. J. (Manch'r Butcher, John George Cubitt, Hon. Henry
Balfour, Capt C. B. (Hornsey) Buxton, Sydney Chas. (Poplar) Dalkeith, Earl of
Balfour, RtHn.GeraldW(Leeds Carson, Rt. Hn. Sir Edw. H. Dalrymple, Sir Charles
Balfour, Kenneth R.(Christch.) Cavendish, V. C. W. (Derbysh.) Davenport, W. Bromley
Banbury, Sir Frederick George Cayzer, Sir Charles William Davies, Sir H. D. (Chatham)
Hartley, Sir George C.T. Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor) Denny, Colonel
Dickinson, Robert Edmond Kerr, John Reid, James (Greenock)
Dickson, Charles Scott Keswick, William Remnant, James Farquharson
Dimsdale, RtHn Sir Joseph C. Kimber, Sir Henry Renwick, George
Disraeli, Coningsby Ralph King, Sir Henry Seymour Ridley, S. Forde
Doughty, Sir George Lamont, Norman Ritchie, Rt.Hn. Chas.Thomson
Douglas, Rt. Hon. A. Akers Laurie, Lieut.-General Roberts, Samuel (Sheffield)
Duke, Henry Edward Law, Andrew Bonar (Glasgow) Robertson, Herb. (Hackney)
Egerton, Hon. A. de Tatton Lawrence, Wm. F. (Liverpool) Rollit, Sir Albert Kaye
Faber, Edmund B. (Hants, W.) Lawson, Hn. H.L.W.(Mile End Round, Rt. Hon. James
Faber, George Denison (York) Lee, A. H. (Hants., Fareham) Royds, Clement Molyneux
Fellowes,RtHn.AilwynEdward Lees, Sir Elliott (Birkenhead) Rutherford, John (Lancashire)
Fergusson, Rt Hn.SirJ.(Manc'r Legge, Col. Hon. Heneage Rutherford, W. W. (Liverpool)
Finch, Rt. Hon. George H. Lockwood, Lieut.-Col. A. R. Sackville, Col. S. G. (Stopford)
Finlay, Sir R. B.(Inv'rn'ssB'gs Long, Col. Chas. W. (Evesham) Sadler, Col. Samuel Alexander
Fisher, William Hayes Long, RtHnWalter (Bristol,S Samuel, Sir H. S. (Limehouse
Flannery, Sir Fortescue Lonsdale, John Brownlee Saunderson, Rt. Hn. Col.Edw.J
Flower, Sir Ernest Loyd, Archie Kirkman Scott, Sir S. (Marylebone, W.)
Forster, Henry William Lucas, Col Francis (Lowestoft) Sharpe, William Edward T.
Galloway, William Johnson Lucas, ReginaldJ. (Portsmouth Shaw-Stewart, Sir H. (Renfrew)
Gardner, Ernest Lyttelton, Rt. Hon. Alfred Skewes-Cox, Thomas
Garfit, William Macdona, John Cumming Smith, Abel H. (Hertford, East)
Gibbs, Hon. A. G. H. MacIver, David (Liverpool) Smith, HC(North'mbTyneside)
Godson, Sir Augustus Fredk. Maconochie, A. W. Smith, RtHnJParker (Lanarks
Gordon,Hn. J. E.(Elgin&Nairn) M'Arthur, Chas. (Liverpool) Smith, Hn. W. F. D. (Strand)
Gordon, Maj Evans (T'rH'm'ts M'Iver, Sir Lewis(EdinburghW Spear, John Ward
Gore, Hon. S. F. Ormsby M,Killop, James (Stirlingsh. Stanley, Rt. Hn. Lord (Lancs)
Goschen, Hn. George Joachim Malcolm, Ian Stewart, Sir M. J. M'Taggart
Goulding, Edward Alfred Manners, Lord Cecil Stirling-Maxwell, Sir John M.
Graham, Henry Robert Markham, Arthur Basil Stock, James Henry
Gray, Ernest (West Ham) Marks, Harry Hananel Strutt, Hn. Charles Hedley
Greene, H. D. (Shrewsbury) Martin, Richard Biddulph Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester)
Greene, W. Raymond (Cambs) Melville, Beresford Valentine Taylor, Austin (East Toxteth)
Grenfell, William Henry Middlemore, J. Throgmorton Thorburn, Sir Walter
Greville, Hon. Ronald Milner, Rt. Hn, Sir Fredk G. Thornton, Percy M.
Groves, James Grimble Milvain, Thomas Tollemache, Henry James
Hall, Edward Marshall Molesworth, Sir Lewis Tomlinson, Sir Win. Edw. M.
Halsey, Rt. Hon. Thomas F. Montagu, Hn. J. Scott (Hants) Tritton, Charles Ernest
Hambro, Charles Eric Moon, Edward Robert Pacy Tuff, Charles
Hamilton, Marq.of(L'donderry Morgan, DavidJ(Walthamstow Tufnell, Lieut-Col. Edward
Hardy, L. (Kent, Ashford) Morrell, George Herbert Tuke, Sir John Batty
Hare, Thomas Leigh Morrison, James Archibald Vincent, Sir Edgar (Exeter)
Hay Hon. Claude George Morton, Arthur H. Aylmer Walrond, Rt. Hon, Sir Wm. H
Heath, Arthur H. (Hanley) Mount, William Arthur Warde, Colonel C.E.
Heath, Sir Jas. (StaffordsNW Mowbray, Sir Robert Gray C. Welby,Lt.-Col. A.C.E. (Taunton
Henderson, Sir A. (Stafford, W. Muntz, Sir Philip A. Welby, Sir Chas. G.E. (Notts.)
Hermon-Hodge, Sir Robert T. Murray, Col. Wyndham (Bath) Wentworth, Bruce C. Vernon
Hickman, Sir Alfred Myers, William Henry Wharton, Rt. Hn. John Lloyd
Hill, Henry Staveley Nicholson, William Graham Whiteley, H.(Ashton undLyne
Hoare, Sir Samuel Palmer, Sir Walter (Salisbury) Whitmore, Charles Algernon
Hogg, Lindsay Parker, Sir Gilbert Willoughby de Eresby, Lord
Hope, J.F.(Sheffield,Brightside Pease, Herb. Pike(Darlington) Wilson, A. Stanley (York,E.R.
Houldsworth, Sir Wm. Henry Peel, HnWmRobt.Wellesley Wilson, John (Glasgow)
Hoult, Joseph Percy, Earl Wolff, Gustav Wilhelm
Houston, Robert Paterson Pierpoint, Robert Worsley-Taylor, Henry Wilson
Howard, J. (Kent, Faversham) Platt-Higgins, Frederick Wortley, Rt. Hn. C. B. Stuart
Hozier, Hn. James H. Cecil Plummer, Sir Walter R. Wrightson, Sir Thomas
Hunt, Rowland Powell, Sir Francis Sharp Wyndham-Quin, Col. W. H.
Jameson, Major J. Eustace Pretyman, Ernest George TELLERS FOR THE AYES—Sir
Jebb, Sir Richard Claverhouse Pryce-Jones, Lt.-Col. Edward Alexander Acland-Hood and
Jeffreys, Rt. Hn. Arthur Fred Purvis, Robert Viscount Valentia.
Jessel, Captain Herbert M. Pym, C. Guy
Kenyon, Hon. Geo. T.(Denbigh Rankin, Sir James
Kenyon-Slanoy, Rt Hn.Col.W. Ratcliff, R. F.
Abraham, Wm. (Cork, N.E.) Allen, Charles P. Atherley-Jones, L.
Abraham, William (Rhondda) Ashton, Thomas Gair Austin, Sir John
Ainsworth, John Stirling Asquith, RtHnHerbert Henry Baker, Joseph Allen
Barlow, John Emmott Hammond, John Philipps, John Wynford
Barran, Rowland Hirst Hardie, J. Keir(MerthyrTydvil Pirie, Duncan V.
Beaumont, Wentworth C. B. Harms worth, R. Leicester Power, Patrick Joseph
Benn, John Williams Harwood, George Price, Robert John
Black, Alexander William Hayden, John Patrick Priestley, Arthur
Boland, John Helme, Norval Watson Rea, Russell
Bolton, Thomas Dolling Henderson, Arthur (Durham) Reckitt, Harold James
Brigg, John Higham, John Sharp Reddy, M.
Bright, Allan Heywood Holland, Sir William Henry Redmond, John E.(Waterford)
Brunner, Sir John Tomlinson Hutchinson, Dr. Chas. Fredk. Rickett, J. Compton
Bryce, Rt. Hon. James Hutton, Alfred E. (Morley) Roberts, John Bryn (Eifion)
Buchanan, Thomas Ryburn Isaacs, Rufus Daniel Roberts, John H. (Denbighs)
Burke, E. Haviland Jacoby, James Alfred Robson, William Snowdon
Burns, John Joicey, Sir James Roe, Sir Thomas
Burt, Thomas Jones, David B. (Swansea) Rose, Charles Day
Buxton, N.E(York,NRWhitby Jones, Leif (Appleby) Runciman, Walter
Caldwell, James Jones, Wm. (Carnarvonshire) Russell, T. W.
Campbell, John (Armagh, S.) Joyce, Michael Samuel, Herb. L. (Cleveland)
Campbell-Bannerman, Sir H. Kearley, Hudson E. Samuel, S. M. (Whitechapel)
Causton, Richard Knight Kennedy, Vincent P. (CavanW Schwann, Charles E.
Cawley, Frederick Lambert, George Seely, Maj. J.E.B. (IsleofWight
Channing, Francis Allston Langley, Batty Shaw, Charles Edw (Stafford)
Cheetham, John Frederick Law, Hugh Alex.(Donegal, W) Sheehy, David
Condon, Thomas Joseph Lawson, Sir Wilfrid (Cornwall) Shipman, Dr. John G.
Cremer, William Randal Layland-Barratt, Francis Sinclair, John (Forfarshire)
Crombie, John William Leese, Sir J. F. (Accrington) Slack, John Bamford
Crooks, William Levy, Maurice Smith, Samuel (Flint)
Cullinan, J. Lewis, John Herbert Soames, Arthur Wellesley
Dalziel, James Henry Lough, Thomas Soares, Ernest J.
Davies, M.Vaughan (Cardigan) Lundon, W. Spencer, Rt. Hn.CR(Northants
Delany, William Lyell, Charles Henry Stanhope, Hn. Philip James
Devlin, Chas. Ramsay (Galway MacNeill, John Gordon Swift Sullivan, Donal
Dewar, John A (Inverness-sh. MacVeagh, Jeremiah Taylor, Theodore C.(Radcliffe)
Dickson-Poynder, Sir-John P. M'Crae, George Tennant, Harold John
Dilke, Rt. Hon. Sir Charles M'Kean, John Thomas, Abel (Carmarthen, E.
Dobbie, Joseph M'Laren, Sir Charles Benjamin Thomson, F. W. (York, W. R.)
Donelan, Captain A. Mansfield, Horace Rendall Tomkinson, James
Doogan, P. C. Mooney, John J. Toulmin, George
Douglas, Chas. M. (Lanark) Morgan, J.Lloyd (Carmarthen) Trevelyan, Charles Philips
Duncan, J. Hastings Moulton, John Fletcher Wallacse, Robert
Dunn, Sir William Murphy, John Walton, Joseph (Barnsley)
Edwards, Frank Nolan, Col. John P(Galway, N. Warner, Thomas Courtenay T.
Elibank, Master of Nolan, Joseph (Loath, South) Wason, Eugene(Clackmannan)
Ellice, CaptEC(SAndrw'Bghs Norman, Henry Wason, John Cathcart(Orkney
Ellis, John Edward (Notts) Nussey, Thomas Willans Weir, James Galloway
Emmott, Alfred O'Brien, K. (Tipperary Mid.) White, Luke (York, E.R.)
Esmonde, Sir Thomas O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny) Whiteley, George (York,W.R.)
Eve, Harry Trelawney O'Brien, P. J. (Tipperary, N. Whitley, J. H. (Halifax)
Fenwick, Charles O'Connor, James (Wickslow, W. Whittaker, Thomas Palmer
Field, William O'Connor, John (Kildare, N.) Williams, Osmond (Merioneth
Findlay, Alexander (LanarkNE O'Dowd, John Wilson, Chas. Henry (Hull,W.)
Fitzmaurice, Lord Edmond O'Kelly, Conor (Mayo, N.) Wilson, Fred W.(Norfolk, Mid
Flavin, Michael Joseph O'Kelly, Jas. (Roscommon, N) Wilson, Henry J. (York, W.R.
Flynn, James Christopher O'Malley, William Wilson, John (Durham, Mid.
Foster, Sir Walter (Derby Co. O'Shaughnessy, P. J. Woodhouse, SirJT(Hudd'rsfi'd
Freeman-Thomas, Captain F. Parrott, William Yoxall, James Henry
Fuller, J. M. F. Partington, Oswald TELLERS FOR THE NOES—Mr.
Grey, Rt. Hn. Sir E, (Berwick) Paulton, James Mellor Herbert Gladstone and Mr.
Griffith, Ellis J. Pearson, Sir Weetman D. William M'Arthur.
Gurdon, Sir W. Brampton Pease, J. A. (Saffron Walden)
Haldane, Rt. Hn. Richard B. Perks, Robert William

Question, "That the Amendment be made," put, and agreed to.

Clause 3:—

Question put, "That the clause stand part of the Bill."

The Committee divided:—Ayes, 260; Noes, 133. (Division List No. 260.)

Agg-Gardner, James Tynte Disraeli, Coningsby Ralph Kenyon, Hn. Geo. T.(Denbigh)
Agnew, Sir Andrew Noel Dobbie, Joseph Kenyon-Slancy, Rt. Hn. Col.W
Allen, Charles P. Doughty, Sir George Kerr, John
Allsopp, Hon. George Douglas, Rt. Hn. A. Akers Keswick, William
Anson, Sir William Reynell Duke, Henry Edward Kimber, Sir Henry
Arkwright, John Stanhope Edwards, Frank King, Sir Henry Seymour
Arnold-Forster, Rt. Hn. H. O. Egerton, Hn. A. de Tatton Lamont, Norman
Arrol, Sir William Faber, Edmund B. (Hants, W.) Laurie, Lieut.-General
Ashton, Thomas Gair Faber, George Denison (York) Law, Andrew Bonar (Glasgow)
Atkinson, Rt. Hn. John Fellowes, Rt HnAilwynEdward Lawrence, Wm. F. (Liverpool)
Bagot, Capt Josceline FitzRoy Fergusson, Rt Hn Sir J Manc'r) Lawson, Hn.H.L.W.(Mile End)
Bailey, James (Walworth) Finch, Rt. Hon. George H. Layland-Barratt, Francis
Bain, Colonel James Robert Finlay, Sir R.B.(Inv'rn'ssBghs) Lee, A. H. (Hants., Fareham)
Balcarres, Lord Fisher, William Hayes Lees, Sir Elliott (Birkenhead)
Balfour, Rt. Hn.A. J.(Manch'r) Flannery, Sir Fortescue Legge, Col. Hon. Hencage
Balfour, Capt C. B. (Hornsey) Flower, Sir Ernest Lockwood, Lieut.-Col. A. R.
Balfour, RtHnGeraldW(Leeds) Forster, Henry William Long, Col. Chas. W. (Evesham)
Balfour, Kenneth R (Christch.) Foster, Sir Walter (Derby Co.) Long, Rt.Hn.Walter(Bristol, S)
Banbury, Sir Frederick George Galloway, William Johnson Lonsdale, John Brownlee
Bartley, Sir George C. T. Gardner, Ernest Loyd, Archie Kirkman
Bathurst, Hn. Allen Benjamin Garfit, William Lucas, Col. Francis (Lowestoft
Beaumont, Wentworth C. B. Gibbs, Hon. A. G. H. Lucas, ReginaldJ(Portsmouth)
Bentinck, Lord Henry C. Godson, Sir Augustus Fredk Lyttelton, Rt. Hon. Alfred
Bhownaggree, Sir M. M. Gordon, Hn JE(Elgin & Nairn) Macdona, John Cumming
Bignold, Sir Arthur Gordon, MajEvans(T'rH'mlets) Maclver, D. (Live pool)
Bigwood, James Goschen, Hn George Joachim Maconochie, A. W.
Bingham, Lord Goulding, Edward Alfred M'Arthur, Chas. (Liverpool)
Blundell, Colonel Henry Graham, Henry Robert M'Iver, Sir Lewis(EdinburghW
Bond, Edward Gray, Ernest (West Ham) M'Killop, James (Stirlingshire)
Brassey, Albert Greene, H. D. (Shrewsbury) Malcolm, Ian
Brodrick Rt. Hn. St John Greene, W. Raymond (Cambs) Manners, Lord Cecil
Brymer, William Ernest Grenfell, William Henry Markham, Arthur Basil
Bull, William James Greville, Hon. Ronald Marks, Harry Hananel
Butcher, John George Griffith, Ellis J. Martin, Richard Biddulph
Buxton, Sydney Chas. (Poplar) Groves, James Grimble Melville, Beresford Valentine
Caldwell, James Haldane, Rt. Hn. Richard B. Middlemore, J. Throgmorton
Carson, Rt. Hn. Sir Edw. H. Hall, Edward Marshall Mildmay, Francis Bingham
Cavendish, V. C. W. (Derbysh Halsey, Rt. Hon. Thomas F. Milner, Rt. Hn. Sir Fredk G.
Cawley, Frederick Hambro, Charles Eric Milvain, Thomas
Cayzer, Sir Charles William Hamilton, Marq of(L'donderry) Molesworth, Sir Lewis
Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor) Hardy, L. (Kent, Ashford) Montagu, Hn. J. Scott(Hants)
Chamberlain, Rt Hn. J. (Birm) Hare, Thomas Leigh Moon, Edward Robert Pacy
Chamberlain, Rt Hn JA (Worc. Hay, Hon. Claude George Morgan, D. J. (Walthamstow)
Chamberlayne, T (S'thampton) Heath, Arthur H. (Hanley) Morrell, George Herbert
Chapman, Edward Heath, Sir Jas. (Staffords.N.W) Morrison, James Archibald
Cheetham, John Frederick Henderson Sir A.(Stafford,W.) Morton, Arthur H. Aylmer
Clive, Captain Percy A Hermon-Hodge, Sir Robert T. Mount, William Arthur
Coates, Edward Feetham Hickman, Sir Alfred Mowbray, Sir Robert Gray C.
Cochrane, Hon. Thos. H. A. R. Hill, Henry Staveley Muntz, Sir Philip A.
Colston, Chas. EdwH.Athole Hoare, Sir Samuel Murray, Col. Wyndham (Bath)
Cook, Sir Fredk. Lucas Hogg, Lindsay Myers, William Henry
Corbett, T. L. (Down, North) Hope, J F (Sheffield,Brightside Nicholson, William Graham
Cross, Alexander (Glasgow) Hoult, Joseph Palmer, Sir Walter (Salisbury
Cubitt, Hon. Henry Houston, Robert Paterson Pease, Herb. Pike (Darlington)
Dalkeith, Karl of Howard, J. (Kent, Faversham) Peel, Hn. Wm. Robert W.
Dalrymple, Sir Charles Hozier, Hn. Jas. Henry Cecil Percy, Earl
Davenport, W. Bromley Hunt, Rowland Philipps, John Wynford
Davies, Sir H. D. (Chatham) Jameson, Major J. Eustace Pierpoint, Robert
Davies, M. Vaughan (Cardigan) Jebb, Sir Richard Claverhouse Summer, Sir Walter R.
Denny, Colonel Jeffreys, Rt. Hn. Arthur Fred Powell, Sir Francis Sharp
Dickinson, Robert Edmond Jessel, Captain Herb. Merton Pretyman, Ernest George
Dickson, Charles Scott Jones, Leif (Appleby) Pryce-Jones, Lt. Col Edward
Dimsdale, Rt Hn. Sir Joseph C Kearley, Hudson E. Purvis, Robert
Pym, C. Guy Seely, Maj. J.E.B(IsleofWight) Tuff, Charles
Rankin, Sir James Sharpe, William Edward T. Tuke, Sir John Batty
Ratcliff, R. F. Shaw, Chas. Edw (Stafford) Vincent, Col Sir CEH(Sheffield)
Reckitt, Harold James Skewes-Cox, Thomas Vincent, Sir Edgar (Exeter)
Reid, James (Greenock) Smith, Abel H. (Hertford,East) Walrond, Rt. Hn. Sir Wm. H.
Remnant, James Farquharson Smith, H.C(North'mbTyneside Warde, Colonel C. E.
Renwick, George Smith, RtHnJParker(Lanarks) Warner, Thomas Courtenay T.
Ridley, S. Forde Smith, Samuel (Flint) Welby, Lt.-Col A CE(Taunton)
Ritchie, Rt. Hon. Chas. T. Smith, Hn. W. F. D. (Strand) Welby, Sir Chas. G. E. (Notts.
Roberts, Samuel (Sheffield) Soares, Ernest J. Wentworth, Bruce C. Vernon
Robertson, Herbert (Hackney) Spear, John Ward Wharton, Rt. Hn. John Lloyd
Rollit, Sir Albert Kaye Stanley, Rt. Hn. Lord (Lancs.) Wniteley, H. (AshtonnndLyne)
Rose, Charles Day Stewart, Sir M. J. M'Taggart Whitmore, Chas. Algernon
Round, Rt. Hn. James Stirling-Maxwell, Sir John M. Willoughby de Eresby, Lord
Royds, Clement Molyneux Stock, James Henry Wilson, John (Glasgow)
Runciman, Walter Strutt, Hn. Charles Hedley Wolff, Gustav Wilhelm
Rutherford, John (Lancashire) Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester) Woodhouse, Sir JT(Hudd'rsfi'd
Rutherford, W. W. (Liverpool) Taylor, Austin (East Toxteth) Worsley-Taylor, Henry Wilson
Sackville, Col. S. G. Stopford Taylor, Theodore C. (Radcliffe Wortley, Rt. Hn. C.B. Stuart
Sadler, Col. Samuel Alexander Thorburn, Sir Walter Wrightson, Sir Thomas
Samuel, Sir H. S. (Limehouse) Thornton, Percy M. Wyndham-Quin, Col. W. H.
Samuel, S. M. (Whitechapel) Tollemache, Henry James TELLERS FOR THE AYES.—Sir
Saunderson, Rt. Hn.Col EdwJ Tomlinson, Sir Wm. Edw. M. Alexander Acland-Hood and
Schwann, Charles E. Trevelyan, Charles Philips Viscount Valentia.
Scott, Sir S. (Marylebone, W.) Tritton, Charles Ernest
Abraham, William (Cork, N.E) Field, William Murphy, John
Abraham, William (Rhondda) Findlay, Alex. (Lanark, N.E.) Nolan, Col John P (Galway, N,
Ainsworth, John Stirling Flavin, Michael Joseph Nolan, Joseph (Louth, South)
Austin, Sir John Flynn, James Christopher O'Brien, K. (Tipperary Mid.)
Baker, Joseph Allen Freeman-Thomas, Captain F. O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny)
Barlow, John Emmott Gurdon, Sir W. Brampton O'Brien, P. J. (Tipperary, N.)
Barran, Rowland Hirst Hammond, John O'Connor, James (Wicklow, W.)
Black, Alexander William Hardie, J. Keir(MerthyrTydvil O'Connor, John (Kildare, N.)
Boland, John Harmsworth, R. Leicester O' Dowd, John
Bolton, Thomas Dolling Harwood, George O'Kelly, Conor (Mayo, N.)
Brigg, John Hayden, John Patrick O'Kelly, James (RoscommonN
Bright, Allan Heywood Helme, Norval Watson O'Malley, William
Brunner, Sir John Tomlinson Henderson, Arthur (Durham) O'Shaughnessy, P. J.
Buchanan, Thomas Ryburn Higham, John Sharp Parrott, William
Burke, E, Haviland Holland, Sir Wm. Henry Partington, Oswald
Burns, John Hutchinson, Dr. Chas. Fredk. Pearson, Sir Weetman D.
Burt, Thomas Hutton, Alfred E. (Morley) Pease, J. A. (Saffron Walden)
Buxton, N.E. (YorkNRWhitby Jacoby, James Alfred Perks, Robert William
Campbell, John (Armagh,, S.) Joicey, Sir James Pirie, Duncan V.
Causton, Richard Knight Jones, David B. (Swansea) Power, Patrick Joseph
Channing, Francis Allston Jones, Wm. (Carnarvonshire) Price, Robert John
Condon, Thomas Joseph Joyce, Michael Priestley, Arthur
Cremer, William Randal Kennedy, Vincent P.(Cavan W) Reddy, M.
Crembie, John William Lambert, George Redmond, John E. (Waterford)
Crooks, William Langley, Batty Rickett, J. Compton
Cullinan, J. Law, HughAlex(Donegal,W.) Roberts, John Bryn (Eifion)
Dalziel, James Henry Lawson, Sir Wilfrid (Cornwall Roberts, John H. (Denbighs.)
Delany, William Leese, Sir J. F. (Accrington) Robson, William Snowdon
Devlin, Chas. Ramsay (Galway Levy, Maurice Roe, Sir Thomas
Dewar, J. A. (Inverness-sh.) Lewis, John Herbert Russell, T. W.
Dilke, Rt. Hn. Sir Charles Lough, Thomas Samuel, Herb. L. (Cleveland)
Doogan, P. C. Lundon, W. Sheehy, David
Douglas, Chas. M. (Lanark) MacNeill, John Gordon Swift Shipman, Dr. John G.
Duncan, J. Hastings MacVeagh, Jeremiah Slack, John Bamford
Dunn, Sir William M'Kean, John Soames, Arthur Wellesley
Elibank, Master of M'Laren, Sir Chas. Benjamin Stanhope, Hn. Philip James
Ellis, John Edward (Notts.) Mansfield, Horace Rendall Sullivan, Donal
Eve, Harry Trelawney Mooney, John J. Thomas, Abel (Carmarthen,E.)
Fenwick, Charles Morgan, J. Lloyd (Carmarthen Thomson, F. W. (York, W. R.)
Tomkinson, James White, Luke (York, E. R.) Wilson, Henry J. (York, W.R)
Toulmin, George Whiteley, George (York, W.R) Wilson, John (Durham, Mid.)
Wallace, Robert Whitley, J. H. (Halifax)
Walton, Joseph (Barnsley) Whittaker, Thomas Palmer TELLERS FOR THE NOES—Sir
Wason, Eugene (Clackmannan) Williams, Osmond (Merioneth) Thomas Esmonde and Cap-
Wason, John Cathcart(Orkney) Wilson, Chas. Henry (Hull,W.) tain Donelan.
Weir, James Galloway Wilson, Fred W (Norfolk, Mid)

And, it being alter Midnight, the Chairman left the Chair to make his Report to the House.

Committee report Progress, to sit again to-morrow.