CONSOLIDATED FUND (No. 2) BILL.

HC Deb 03 July 1905 vol 148 cc877-920

Considered in Committee.

(In the Committee.)

[Mr. GRANT LAWSON (Yorkshire, N. R. Thirsk) in the Chair.

Clause 1:—

Motion made and Question proposed, "That the clause stand part of the Bill."

MR. DALZIEL (Kirkcaldy. Burghs) moved to report Progress. He said that hon. Members had not had notice that the Bill would be taken. A few nights ago when the Government announced that the Bill would be taken, many Members interested in the matter waited, but to-night, not at all expecting it would come on, they had gone home. He submitted that, under the circumstances, it would be very unfair to take the Committee stage without notice.

Motion made and Question proposed, "That the Chairman do report Progress; and ask leave to sit again."

THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER (Mr. AUSTEN CHAMBERLAIN, Worcestershire, E.)

said that when the Bill was put down the other night he was asked by hon. Gentlemen opposite not to take it that night. The measure was one for which there was urgency, and, as no object would be gained by postponement, he hoped the Committee would now proceed with the consideration of the clause.

MR. DALZIEL

said he was sure the communication with the other side was not made through the ordinary official channels.

MR. AUSTEN CHAMBERLAIN

A right hon. Gentleman on the Front Bench opposite leaned across the Table and said, "I suppose you will not take the Bill to-night?"

MR. DALZIEL

did not regard that as a representation; it was merely a request for information. The right hon. Gentleman would get his Bill much more easily if he gave twenty-four hours notice.

MR. LOUGH (Islington, N.)

hoped the right hon. Gentleman would accede to the request of his hon. friend. Nothing would be gained by pressing the Bill to-night, and it was only reasonable that some notice should be given.

MAJOR SEELY (Isle of Wight)

said there was something peculiarly inappropriate in taking this Bill without notice. This year a Consolidated Fund Bill had been brought forward in a manner contrary to all precedent, and methods had been adopted that were contrary to good finance. It was therefore essential that the Consolidated Fund (No. 2) Bill should not be taken without due notice.

MR. CHURCHILL (Oldham)

asked whether the Committee were not to have any Answer from the Leader of the House. A request, couched in extremely moderate language, had been made that the Bill should be postponed for a day. It was extremely inconvenient that so important a matter should be thrust upon the Committee after midnight. If the right hon. Gentleman's desire was to get the measure through by a covert manœuvre he thought it possible that the discussion might be protracted till quite a late hour in the morning. The Prime Minister really treated the House with utter contempt. The right hon. Gentleman hardly ever condescended to enter the House during the ordinary course of business except for the purpose of proposing some gagging Resolution. If no Answers were to be obtained to reasonable Questions he thought the time had come when every opportunity still remaining in the hands of a minority should be used to protest against such treatment.

THE PRIME MINISTER AND FIRST LORD OF THE TREASURY (Mr. A. J. BALFOUR, Manchester, E.)

said the hon. Gentleman accused him of treating the House with contempt. That was the last sentiment that ever entered his mind. He did not say that there were no individuals in the House for whom at times he might not entertain contempt, but for the House itself, never. The hon. Gentleman accused him of not having got up to answer the Question; but, so far as he knew, no Question had been put which had not been already answered by his right hon. friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer, who was responsible for the conduct of this Bill through the House-His right hon. friend might have added, however, that when hon. Members talked in the same breath of a departure from ancient precedent and also of the importance of discussion on the Committee

stage of the Consolidated Fund Bill they showed complete forgetfulness or ignorance of what was perfectly familiar to all the older Members of the House. There was no case of an important debate ever having taken place on this stage of the Consolidated Fund Bill.

Question put.

The Committee divided: Ayes, 89; Noes, 136. (Division List No. 228.)

AYES.
Ainsworth, John Stirling	Hammond, John	O'Connor, John (Kildare, N.)
Asher, Alexander	Harcourt, Lewis	O'Dowd, John
Barran, Rowland Hirst	Hardie, J Keir (Merthyr Tydvil	O'Kelly, Conor (Mayo, N.)
Barry, E. (Cork, S.)	Helme, Norval Watson	O'Malley, William
Black, Alexander William	Higham, John Sharp	O'Mara, James
Boland, John	Hutchinson, Dr. Chas. Fredk.	Pease, J. A. (Saffron Walden
Brigg, John	Jones, Leif (Appleby)	Power, Patrick Joseph
Bright, Allan Heywood	Jordan, Jeremiah	Priestley, Arthur
Brown, George M. (Edinburgh)	Joyce, Michael	Rea, Russell
Burke, E. Haviland	Kennedy, Vincent P. (Cavan. W	Reddy, M.
Caldwell, James	Kilbride, Denis	Rickett, J. Compton
Causton, Richard Knight	Lamont, Norman	Roche, John (Galway, East
Channing, Francis Allston	Law, Hugh A. (Donegal, W.)	Russell, T. W.
Cheetham, John Frederick	Lawson, Sir Wilfrid (Cornwall	Samuel, Herb. L. (Cleveland)
Churchill, Winston Spencer	Layland-Barratt, Francis	Samuel, S. M. (Whitechapel)
Cogan, Denis J.	Lough, Thomas	Shaw, Thomas (Hawick B.)
Condon, Thomas Joseph	Lyell, Charles Henry	Soares, Ernest J.
Crean, Eugene	MacNeill, John Gordon Swift	Sullivan, Donal
Cremer, William Randal	MacVeagh, Jeremiah	Taylor, Theodore C. (Radcliffe)
Cullinan, J.	M'Arthur, William (Cornwall)	Toulmin, George
Devlin, Chas. Ramsay (Galway	M'Crae, George	Trevelyan, Charles Philips
Devlin, Joseph (Kilkenny, N.)	M'Killop, W. (Sligo, North)	White, George (Norfolk)
Doogan, P. C.	Markham, Arthur Basil	White, Luke (York, E. R.)
Duffy, William J.	Mitchell, Edw. (Fermanagh, N.	Whitley, J. H. (Halifax)
Ellice, Capt E C (S Andrw'sBghs	Moss, Samuel	Williams, Osmond (Merioneth)
Evans, Samuel T. (Glamorgan)	Muldoon, John	Wills, Arthur Walters (N Dorset
Farrell, James Patrick	Murphy, John	Wilson, Fred W (Norfolk, Mid.)
Findlay, Alex. (Lanark, N. E.)	Nannetti, Joseph P.
Flavin, Michael Joseph	Nolan, Joseph (Louth, South)	TELLERS FOR THE AYES—Mr. Dalziel and Major Seely.
Gladstone, Rt. Hn Herbert John	O'Brien, K. (Tipperary Mid.)
Griffith, Ellis J.	O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny)
NOES.
Anson, Sir William Reynell	Bond, Edward	Cust, Henry John C.
Arkwright, John Stanhope	Boscawen, Arthur Griffith	Davenport, Wm. Bromley
Arnold-Forster, Rt. Hn. H. O.	Brassey, Albert	Dickson, Charles Scott
Arrol, Sir William	Brodrick, Rt. Hon. St. John	Doughty, Sir George
Atkinson, Rt. Hon. John	Brotherton, Edward Allen	Douglas, Rt. Hn. A. Akers-
Balcarres, Lord	Campbell, J. H M (Dublin Univ.	Doxford, Sir Wm. Theodore
Balfour, Rt. Hn. A. J. (Manch'r.	Carson, Rt. Hn. Sir Edw. H.	Fellowes, Rt. Hn. Ailwyn Edw.
Balfour, Capt. C. B. (Hornsey)	Cavendish, V. C W. (Derbyshire	Fielden, Edward Brocklehurst
Balfour, Rt. Hn Gerald W (Leeds	Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor)	Finch, Rt. Hn. George H.
Banbury, Sir Frederick George	Cecil, Lord Hugh (Greenwich)	Finlay, Sir R. B. (Inv'rn'ssBghs.
Banner, John S Harmood-	Chamberlain. Rt Hn J A (Worc.	Fisher, William Hayes
Bathurst, Hn. Allen Benjamin	Chapman, Edward	Fitzroy, Hn. Edw. Algernon
Bentinck, Lord Henry C.	Clive, Captain Percy A.	Forster, Henry William
Bhownaggree, Sir M. M.	Coates, Edward Feetham	Galloway, William Johnson
Bignold, Sir Arthur	Cochrane, Hn. Thos. H. A. E.	Gardner, Ernest
Bingham, Lord	Compton, Lord Alywne	Gordon, J. (Londonderry, S.)
Blundell, Colonel Henry	Corbett, T. L. (Down, North)	Gordon, Maj Evans (T'rH'mlets
Gray, Ernest (West Ham)	Lucas, Col. Francis (Lowestoft	Round, Rt. Hon. James
Greene, H. D. (Shrewsbury)	Lucas, Reginald J (Portsmouth	Royds, Clement Molyneux
Hambro, Charles Eric	Lyttelton, Rt. Hon. Alfred	Rutherford, John (Lancashire)
Hamilton, Marqof (L'nd'nderry	M'Killop, James (Stirlingshire)	Rutherford, W. W. (Liverpool)
Hardy, L. (Kent, Ashford)	Majendie, James A. H.	Scott, Sir S. (Marylebone, W.)
Hare, Thomas Leigh	Marks, Harry Hananel	Seely, Charles Hilton (Lincoln)
Hay, Hn. Claude George	Martin, Richard Biddulph	Smith, Abel H (Hertford, East)
Heath, Sir Jas (Staffords, N. W.	Milvain, Thomas	Stanley, Hn. Arthur Ormskirk
Hickman, Sir Alfred	Montagu, Hn. J. Scott (Hants.	Stanley, Rt. Hn. Lord (Lanes.)
Hope, J F (Sheffield, Brightside	Moon, Edward Robert Pacy	Stirling-Maxwell, Sir John M.
Hozier, Hon. James Henry C.	Morgan, D. J. (Walthamstow)	Strutt, Hn. Charles Hedley
Hunt, Rowland	Morpeth, Viscount	Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester)
Jeffreys, Ht. Hn. Arthur Fred	Morrell, George Herbert	Tomlinson, Sir Wm. Edw. M.
Kenyon, Hon. G. T. (Denbigh	Morrison, James Archibald	Tuff, Charles
Kenyon-Slaney, Rt. Hn. Col. W	Mount, William Arthur	Tuke, Sir John Batty
Kerr, John	Murray, Chas. J. (Coventry)	Vincent, Sir Edgar (Exeter)
Keswick, William	Pease, Herb. Pike (Darlington)	Walker, Col. William Hall
King, Sir Henry Seymour	Percy, Earl	Walrond, Rt. Hn. Sir Wm. H.
Knowles, Sir Lees	Pierpoint, Robert	Warde, Colonel C. E
Laurie, Lieut.-General	Platt-Higgins, Frederick	Welby, Sir Chas. G. E. (Notts.)
Law, Andrew Bonar (Glasgow	Powell, Sir Francis Sharp	Whitmore, Charles Algernon
Lawrence, Sir J. (Monmouth)	Pretyman, Ernest George	Williams, Colonel R. (Dorset)
Lawrence, Wm. F. (Liverpool)	Pryce-Jones, Lt.-Col. Edward	Wilson, A. Stanley (York, E. R.
Lawson, Hn. H L W (Mile End)	Purvis, Robert	Wilson, John (Glasgow)
Lee, A. H. (Hants, Fareham)	Randles, John S.	Wylie, Alexander
Legge, Col. Hon. Heneage	Rankin, Sir James
Leveson-Gower, Frederick N. S	Reid, James (Greenock)	TELLERS FOR THE NOES—Sir Alexander Acland-Hood and Viscount Valentia.
Lockwood, Lieut.-Col. A. R.	Ridley, S. Forde
Long, Rt. Hn. Walter (Bristol. S	Robertson, Herb. (Hackney)
Lowe, Francis William	Ropner, Colonel Sir Robert

Question again proposed, "That the clause stand part of the Bill."

MAJOR SEELY

said he desired to call the attention of the Committee to the disastrous state of His Majesty's land forces.

THE CHAIRMAN

said that would be clearly out of order. It was a well-known rule of the House that such general discussions were in order on the Second and Third Reading of the Bill, but it had been laid down time after time that they were not in order in Committee.

MAJOR SEELY

said that as he understood the precedent it was not in order to discuss the general condition of the land forces in Committee on the Consolidated Fund Bill under ordinary circumstances, but under exceptional circumstances, such as took place in 1884, he believed it was held that the state of uncertainty could be discussed.

THE CHAIRMAN

said he had carefully studied the precedents of the last twenty years, and he was confident that that was not so.

MR. CHURCHILL

understood the ruling of the Chair to be that no general subject such as would be relevant to a Second Reading debate was in order in Committee. He presumed, however, that any specific item of expenditure included in the sum dealt with by this clause to which exception was taken could be discussed on the present occasion.

THE CHAIRMAN

explained that the Committee could not over-rule a decision of the House itself, and the House had already decided by the Resolution of June 6th that this particular sum should be granted out of the Consolidated Fund. It would therefore be out of order for the Committee to attempt to go behind the decision of the House.

MR. CHURCHILL

said the Question put from the Chair was "that Clause 1 stand part of the Bill," and the Committer, of course, could either reject or accept that Motion. Therefore, while it was in order to reject the clause absolutely, it was apparently not in order to assign any reason for taking such a course.

THE CHAIRMAN

said that so far as he could gather from the precedents that was what had always been ruled. He did not defend it; he simply adhered to the practice of the House.

MR. DALZIEL

asked whether the Chairman meant to assert that on no previous occasion had Members been allowed in Committee on the Consolidated Fund Bill to discuss the merits of the clauses or to move Amendments to them; and, further, whether be ruled that no Amendment whatever could be made to Clause 1 or any other clause in the Bill.

THE CHAIRMAN

said his ruling referred to a particular Amendment on Clause 1. When other clauses were reached, if any Amendments were put forward, he would rule upon them.

MR. DALZIEL

asked whether it would be in order for any Member who objected to the procedure to be adopted in raising this money to move the postponement of Clause 1 until the borrowing proposals had been discussed.

THE CHAIRMAN

No, I think not.

MR. SWIFT MACNEILL (Donegal, S.)

asked what, then, could be discussed. This sum of £16,000,000 included an item of £1,000 or £2,000 in connection with the Deputy Judge Advocate-General's office. Could he discuss that, or were the Members of the House of Commons to vote money simply as automata?

THE CHAIRMAN

said that precisely the same point was raised by the late Member for Cork in 1885, and it was then held that he could not move such an Amendment.

MR. SAMUEL EVANS (Glamorganshire, Mid.)

asked whether the Committee was to understand that they could not discuss anything.

THE CHAIRMAN

said he had ruled that it was not in order to discuss the condition of the land forces. That was the only subject which had yet been suggested for discussion.

MR. SAMUEL EVANS

Is there anything we can discuss?

THE CHAIRMAN

All I can say is that for twenty years the ingenuity of many Inn. Members has been directed to finding something to discuss, and they have never succeeded in finding anything.

MR. CHURCHILL

said he would not venture to comment upon the results of the ruling just given, but the Committee were in a very peculiar position. They were asked to express an opinion as to whether or not Clause 1 should stand part of the Bill, but they were not allowed to consider any of the facts relevant to such a decision. But the question was not merely whether the clause should be embodied in the Bill; there was the further point of whether they ought not to decide as to the borrowing powers to be granted to the Government before they dealt with the Supply itself. He therefore moved to postpone Clause 1 until Clause 2 had been dealt with.

THE CHAIRMAN

said that such a Motion would not be in order. The Question that Clause 1 stand part had already been put, and any Motion to postpone the clause should be made before that Question was proposed from the Chair.

MR. SOARES (Devonshire, Barnstaple)

hoped some explanation of the clause would be given. Even if the measure were more or less of a formal character it was nevertheless necessary that the Committee should understand the Bill before they passed it.

MR. DALZIEL

said there were various reasons why this clause should not be added to the Bill. The measure had come on unexpectedly, and many Members interested therein were not present. There was also the question of whether the Government ought to be encouraged in this policy of continually bringing in Consolidated Fund Bills.

THE CHAIRMAN

That subject might be in order on the Second Reading, but it is certainly out of order on Clause 1.

MR. DALZIEL

said another matter for consideration was whether the Government were a fit body to be entrusted with this amount of money.

THE CHAIRMAN

The House has already decided that question by the Resolution of June 6th, upon which we cannot go back.

MR. CHURCHILL

asked how, if the House had already decided that the Government were to have this money, it was competent for the Committee to over-rule the decision of the House, as it obviously was competent from the very fact that the Chairman had put the Question from the Chair.

THE CHAIRMAN

I have already stated the rule of the House; I am afraid I cannot argue the matter with the hon. Member.

MR. CHURCHILL

suggested that it would be extremely convenient, and greatly to the satisfaction of all parties, if the Chairman would inaugurate his career by creating and establishing for all time a precedent that would bear some remote resemblance to commonsense.

MR. SWIFT MACNEILL

thought that, in view of the fact that hon. Members did not expect this discussion to come on, he was within his rights in moving the adjournment of the debate. [The Clerk at the Table made an observation to the Chairman.] He must really ask the Clerk to keep quiet. The question was for the Chairman to decide. He would submit to the decision of the proper authority, but he protested against the Chairman being the mouthpiece of any official at the Table. [Cries of "Withdraw!"] He would withdraw nothing. If the Government would not answer Questions that were put to them he was perfectly in order in moving the adjournment of the debate.

THE CHAIRMAN

said the hon. Member would, no doubt, have been within his rights in moving the adjournment of the debate were it not that the Committee had just rejected a Motion to report Progress. He could not accept the

MR. CHURCHILL

asked whether they were not entitled to have from the Chancellor of the Exchequer some statement in explanation of the very important proposition which he had been responsible for commending to the House. The Committee were not allowed to criticise in detail the various public objects to be served by the Supply or to deal with any of the general subjects which appsared naturally to arise in connection with the expenditure of the money, but they were at least entitled to a statement from the responsible head of the Treasury as to the general scope of the clause. If the debate appeared to lack the element of reality, that element could be at once supplied by the right hon. Gentleman on the Treasury Bench. He would not make an appeal to the right hon. Gentleman, because, naturally, the right hon. Gentleman did not pay any attention to anything he said—unless it was to do the exact opposite—but the Leader of the House had assured them that, though he had a contempt for him personally, he had no contempt for the House, and he would urge the right hon. Gentleman to live up to that newly-made resolution and apply to the Chancellor of the Exchequer that almost overwhelming pressure which would induce him to make to the Committee the explanation which it desired and deserved.

MR. A. J. BALFOUR

rose in his place, and claimed to move, "That the Question be now put."

Question pat, "That the Question be now put."

While the House was being cleared for a division,

MR. CALDWELL (Lanarkshire, Mid.)

drew attention to the fact that in 1888 when the question was raised the Chairman said— The hon. Member can discuss whether it is expedient that the Supply which has been already granted by the House should or should not be appropriated, and the mode of appropriation, but those are the only questions he can raise. The Supply has been already voted; the amount has been already determined; the only question for this Committee is whether the Treasury shall be compelled by law to appropriate the money in a certain way.

THE CHAIRMAN

I understand the hon. Member's point, but he has over-

looked the fact that that was an Appropriation Bill.

The Committee divided:—Ayes 127; Noes, 78. (Division List No. 229.)

AYES.
Anson, Sir William Reynell	Fitzroy, Hn. Edw. Algernon	Morrison, James Archibald
Arkwright, John Stanhope	Forster, Henry William	Mount, William Arthur
Arnold-Forster, Rt Hn. H. O.	Galloway, William Johnson	Murray, Chas. J. (Coventry)
Arrol, Sir William	Gordon, J. (Londonderry, S.)	Pease, Herbert P. (Darlington
Atkinson, Rt. Hon. John	Gordon, Maj Evans(T'rH'mlets	Percy, Earl
Balcarres, Lord	Gray, Ernest (West Ham)	Pierpoint, Robert
Balfour, Rt. Hn A. J (Manch'r	Greene, Henry D. (Shrewsbury	Platt-Higgins, Frederick
Balfour, Capt. C. B. (Hornsey)	Hambro, Charles Eric	Powell, Sir Francis Sharp
Balfour, Rt. Hn. G. W. (Leeds)	Hamilton, Marq of (L'nd'nderry	Pretyman, Ernest George
Banbury, Sir Frederick George	Hardy, L. (Kent, Ashford)	Pryce-Jones, Lt.-Col. Edward
Banner, John S. Harmood-	Hare, Thomas Leigh	Purvis, Robert
Bathurst, Hn. Allen Benjamin	Hay, Hon. Claude George	Randles, John S.
Bentinck, Lord Henry C.	Heath, Sir Jas. (Staffords, N W	Rankin, Sir James
Bhownaggree, Sir M. M.	Hope, J F (Sheffield, Brightside	Reid, James (Greenock)
Bignold, Sir Arthur	Hozier, Hon. James Henry C.	Ridley, S. Forde
Bingham, Lord	Hunt, Rowland	Robertson, Herbert (Hackney
Blundell, Colonel Henry	Jeffreys, Rt. Hn. Arthur Fred	Royds, Clement Molyneux
Bond, Edward	Kenyon, Hn. Geo. T. (Denbigh	Rutherford, John (Lancashire
Boscawen, Arthur Griffith	Kenyon-Slaney, Rt. Hn. Col. W.	Rutherford, W. W. (Liverpool
Brassey, Albert	Kerr, John	Scott, Sir S. (Marylebone, W.)
Brodrick, Rt. Hon. St. John	Keswick, William	Seely, Chas. Hilton (Lincoln)
Brotherton, Edward Allen	King, Sir Henry Seymour	Smith, Abel H. (Hertford, East
Campbell, J. HM (Dublin Univ.	Knowles, Sir Lees	Stanley, Hn. Arthur (Ormskirk
Carson, Rt. Hn. Sir Edw. H.	Law, Andrew Bonar (Glasgow)	Stanley, Rt. Hn. Lord (Lanes)
Cavendish, V. C. W. (Derbysh.	Lawrence, Sir J. (Monmouth)	Stirling-Maxwell, Sir John M.
Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor)	Lawrence, Wm. F. (Liverpool)	Strutt, Hn. Charles Hedley
Cecil, Lord Hugh (Greenwich)	Lawson, Hn. H. L. W. (Mile End	Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester)
Chamberlain, Rt. Hn J A (Worc.	Lee, A. H. (Hants, Fareham)	Tomlinson, Sir Wm. Edw. M.
Charming, Francis Allston	Legge, Col. Hon. Heneage	Tuff, Charles
Chapman, Edward	Leveson-Gower, Frederick. N. S	Tuke, Sir John Batty
Clive, Captain Percy A.	Lockwood, Lieut.-Col. A. R.	Walker, Col. William Hall
Coates, Edward Feetham	Long, Rt. Hn Walter (Bristol, S)	Walrond, Rt. Hn. Sir Wm. H.
Cochrane, Hn. Thos. H. A E.	Lowe, Francis William	Warde, Colonel C. E.
Compton, Lord Alwyne	Lucas, Col. Francis (Lowestoft)	Welby, Sir Chas. G. E. (Notts)
Corbett, T. L. (Down, North)	Lucas, Reginald J (Portsmouth	Whitmore, Charles Algernon
Davenport, William Bromley	Lyttelton, Rt. Hn. Alfred	Williams, Colonel R. (Dorset)
Dickson, Charles Scott	M'Killop, James (Stirlingshire	Wilson, A. Stanley (York, E. R.
Doughty, Sir George	Majendie, James A. H.	Wilson, John (Glasgow)
Douglas, Rt. Hn. A. Akers.	Marks, Harry Hananel	Wylie, Alexander
Fellowes, Rt Hn Ailwyn Edward	Milvain, Thomas
Fielden, Edward Brocklehurst	Moon, Edward Robert Pacy	TELLERS FOR THE AYES—Sir Alexander Acland-Hood and Viscovnt Valentia.
Finch, Rt. Hn. George H.	Morgan, D. J. (Walthamstow)
Finlay, Sir R B (Inv'rn'ssB'ghs)	Morpeth, Viscount
Fisher, William Hayes	Morrell, George Herbert
NOES.
Ainsworth, John Stirling	Cremer, Wm. Randal	Higham, John Sharp
Asher, Alexander	Cullinan, J.	Jones, Leif (Appleby)
Barran, Rowland Hirst	Devlin, Chas. Ramsay (Galway	Jordan, Jeremiah
Barry, E. (Cork, S.)	Devlin, J. (Kilkenny, N.)	Joyce, Michael
Black, Alexander William	Doogan, P. C.	Kennedy, V. P. (Cavan, W.)
Boland, John	Duffy, William J.	Kilbride, Denis
Brigg, John	Ellice, Capt E C (SAndrw'sB'ghs	Law, Hugh Alex (Donegal, W.
Bright, Allan Heywood	Evans, Samuel T. (Glamorgan)	Lawson, Sir Wilfrid (Cornwall)
Brown, G. M. (Edinburgh)	Farrell, James Patrick	Layland-Barratt, Francis
Caldwell, James	Findlay, Alex. (Lanark, N. E.)	Lough, Thomas
Causton, Richard Knight.	Flavin, Michael Joseph	MacNeill, John Gordon Swift
Cheetham, John Frederick	Gladstone, Rt. Hn Herb. John	MacVeagh, Jeremiah
Churchill, Winston Spencer	Hammond, John	M'Arthur, Wm. (Cornwall)
Cogan, Denis J.	Harcourt, Lewis	M'Crae, George
Condon, Thomas Joseph	Hardie, J. Keir (Merthyr Tydvil	M'Killop, W. (Sligo, North)
Crean, Eugene	Helme, Norval Watson	Markham, Arthur Basil
Mitchell, Edw. (Fermanagh, N.	Power, Patrick Joseph	Toulmin, George
Moss, Samuel	Priestley, Arthur	Trevelyan, Charles Philips
Muldoon, John	Rea, Russell	White, Luke (York, E. R.)
Murphy, John	Reddy, M.	Whitley, J. H. (Halifax)
Nannetti, Joseph P.	Roche, John (Galway, East)	Williams, Osmond (Merioneth)
Nolan, J. (Louth, South)	Russell, T. W.	Wills, Arthur Walters (N Dorset
O'Brien, K. (Tipperary Mid.)	Samuel, S. M. (Whitechapel)	Wilson, Fred W (Norfolk, Mid.)
O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny)	Seely, Maj J. E. B(Isle of Wight
O'Connor, John (Kildare, N.)	Soares, Ernest J.	TELLERS FOR THE NOES—Mr. Dalziel and Mr. Ellis Griffith.
O'Malley, William	Sullivan, Donal
Pease, J. A. (Saffron Walden)	Taylor, Theodore C. (Radcliffe)

Question put accordingly, "That the clause stand part of the Bill."

The Committee divided:—Ayes, 125; Noes, 79. (Division List No 230.)

AYES.
Anson, Sir William Reynell	Forster, Henry William	Mount, William Arthur
Arkwright, John Stanhope	Galloway, William Johnson	Murray, Chas. J. (Coventry)
Arnold-Forster, Rt. Hn. H. O.	Gordon, J. (Londonderry, S.)	Pease, Herb. Pike (Darlington
Arrol, Sir William	Gordon, Maj Evans (T'r H'mlets	Percy, Earl
Atkinson, Rt. Hn. John	Gray, Ernest (West Ham)	Pierpoint, Robert
Balcarres, Lord	Hambro, Charles Eric	Platt-Higgins, Frederick
Balfour, Rt. Hn. A J (Manch'r)	Hamilton, Marqof (L'nd'nderry)	Powell, Sir Francis Sharp
Balfour, Capt C. B. (Hornsey)	Hardy, L. (Kent, Ashford)	Pretyman, Ernest George
Balfour, Rt Hn G. W. (Leeds)	Hare, Thomas Leigh	Pryce-Jones, Lt.-Col. Edward
Banbury, Sir Frederick George	Hay, Hon. Claude George	Purvis, Robert
Banner, John S. Harmood-	Heath, Sir J. (Staffords, N. W.	Randles, John S.
Bathurst, Hn. Allen Benjamin	Hope, J. F. (Sheffield, Brightside	Rankin, Sir James
Bentinck, Lord Henry C.	Hozier, Hn. James Henry Cecil	Reid, James (Greenock)
Bhownaggree, Sir M. M	Hunt, Rowland	Ridley, S. Forde
Bignold, Sir Arthur	Jeffreys, Rt. Hn. Arthur Fred.	Robertson, Herb. (Hackney)
Bingham, Lord	Kenyon, Hn. Geo. T (Denbigh	Royds, Clement Molyneux
Blundell, Colonel Henry	Kenyon-Slaney, Rt Hn Col. W.	Rutherford, John (Lancashire
Bond, Edward	Kerr, John	Rutherford, W. W. (Liverpool)
Boscawen, Arthur Griffith	Keswick, William	Scott, Sir S. (Marylebone, W.)
Brassey, Albert	King, Sir Henry Seymour	Seely, Charles Hilton (Lincoln)
Brotherton, Edward Allen	Knowles, Sir Lees	Smith, Abel H. (Hertford, East
Campbell, J H M (Dublin Univ.	Law, Andrew Bonar (Glasgow	Stanley, Hn. Arthur (Ormskirk
Carson, Rt. Hon. Sir Edw. H	Lawrence, Sir J. (Monm'th)	Stanley, Rt. Hn. Lord (Lanes
Cavendish, V. C. W. (Derbysh.	Lawrence, Wm. F. (Liverpool)	Stirling-Maxwell, Sir John M.
Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor)	Lawson, Hn H L W (Mile End	Strutt, Hn. Charles Hedley
Cecil, Lord Hugh (Greenwich)	Lee, A. H. (Hants, Fareham)	Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester)
Chamberlain, Rt Hn J A (Wore.	Legge, Col. Hon. Heneage	Tomlinson, Sir Wm. Edw. M.
Chapman, Edward	Leveson-Gower, Frederick N. S.	Tuff, Charles
Clive, Captain Percy A.	Lockwood, Lieut.-Col. A. R.	Tuke, Sir John Batty
Coates, Edward Feetham	Long, Col. Chas. W. (Evesham	Walker, Col. William Hall
Cochrane, Hn. Thos. H. A. E.	Lowe, Francis William	Walrond, Rt. Hn. Sir Wm. H.
Compton, Lord Alwyne	Lucas, Col. Francis (Lowestoft	Warde, Colonel C. E.
Corbett, T. L (Down, North)	Lucas, Reginald J (Portsmouth	Welby, Sir Chas. G. E. (Notts.)
Davenport, William Bromley	Lyttelton, Rt. Hon. Alfred	Whitmore, Charles Algernon
Dickson, Charles Scott	M'Killop, James (Stirlingshire)	Williams, Colonel R. (Dorset)
Doughty, Sir George	Majendie, James A. H.	Wilson, A. Stanley (York, E. R.
Douglas, Rt. Hn. A. Akers-	Marks, Harry Hananel	Wilson, John (Glasgow)
Fellowes, Rt Hn Ailwyn Edward	Milvain, Thomas	Wylie, Alexander
Fielden, Edward Brocklehurst	Moon, Edward Robert Pacy
Finch, Rt. Hn. George H.	Morgan, D. J. (Walthamstow)	TELLERS FOR THE AYES—Sir Alexander Acland-Hood and Viscount Valentia.
Finlay, Sir R. B. (Inv'rn'ssB'ghs.	Morpeth, Viscount
Fisher, William Hayes	Morrell, George Herbert
Fitzroy, Hn. Edward Algernon	Morrison, James Archibald
NOES.
Ainsworth, John Stirling	Caldwell, James	Cullinan, J.
Asher, Alexander	Causton, Richard Knight	Dalziel, James Henry
Barran, Rowland Hirst	Channing, Francis Allston	Devlin, Chas. Ramsay (Galway
Barry, E. (Cork, S.)	Cheetham, John Frederick	Devlin, Joseph (Kilkenny, N.)
Black, Alexander William	Cogan, Denis J.	Doogan, P. C.
Boland, John	Condon, Thomas Joseph	Duffy, William J.
Brigg, John	Crean, Eugene	Ellice, Capt E C (SAndrw'sB'ghs
Brown, Sir Alex. H. (Shropsh.	Cremer, William Randal	Evans, Samuel T. (Glamorgan)
Farrell, James Patrick	MacVeagh, Jeremiah	Preistley, Arthur
Findlay, Alex. (Lanark, N. E.)	M'Arthur, Wm. (Cornwall)	Rea, Russell
Flavin, Michael Joseph	M'Crae, George	Reddy, M.
Gladstone, Rt. Hn. Herb. John	M'Killop, W. (Sligo, North)	Roche, John (Galway, East)
Griffith, Ellis J.	Markham, Arthur Basil	Russell, T. W.
Hammond, John	Mitchell, Edw (Fermanagh, N.	Samuel, S. M. (Whitechapel)
Harcourt, Lewis	Moss, Samuel	Soares, Ernest J.
Hardie, J. Keir (Merthyr Tydvil	Muldoon, John	Sullivan, Donal
Helme, Norval Watson	Murphy, John	Taylor, Theodore C. (Radcliffe
Higham, John Sharp	Nannetti, Joseph P.	Toulmin, George
Jones, Leif (Appleby)	Nolan, Joseph (Louth, South)	White, Luke (York, E. R.)
Jordan, Jeremiah	O'Brien, K. (Tipperary Mid.)	Whitley, J. H. (Halifax)
Joyce, Michael	O'Brien, Patrick ((Kilkenny)	Williams, Osmond (Merioneth)
Kennedy, Vincent P (Cavan, W	O'Connor, John (Kildare, N.)	Wills, Arthur Walters (N Dorset
Kilbride, Denis	O'Dowd, John	Wilson, Fred W (Norfolk, Mid.)
Law, Hugh Alex (Donegal, W.	O'Kelly, Conor (Mayo, N.)
Lawson, Sir Wilfrid (Cornwall)	O'Malley, William	TELLERS FOR THE NOES—Mr. Trevelyan and Mr. Bright.
Layland-Barratt, Francis	O'Mara, James
Lough, Thomas	Pease, J. A. (Saffron Walden)
MacNeill, John Gordon Swift	Power, Patrick Joseph

Clause 2:—

MR. McCRAE (Edinburgh, E.)

, in moving to omit the word "borrow," complained of the inconvenience of discussing technical financial points at that hour of the morning.

THE CHAIRMAN

intimated that the hon. Member would not be in order unless he proposed to substitute some other word for the word "borrow."

MR. McCRAE

said he was about to show how the money could be provided if the word "borrow" was omitted.

THE CHAIRMAN

said he could not accept the Amendment as it stood, as the clause would not be sense without some verb in the place of "borrow."

MR. CHURCHILL

understood that his hon. friend wished to call attention to certain technical irregularities in the method of borrowing now pursued by the Chancellor of the Exchequer, and in order to remove the difficulty referred to by the Chairman he would move the substitution of the word "obtain" for the word "borrow." At first sight it might appear to be a mere verbal quibble, but that was not at all the case. There were many sources from which the Treasury could obtain funds without borrowing. There was, for instance, the overdue contribution of £10,000,000 from the mineowners of South Africa. That alone would have provided considerably more than one-half of the amount dealt with in this Bill. Then there were the enormous profits said to have been made out of the sale of stores through the genius and foresight of a paragon Secretary of State. Surely some appropriation from that source might very well be brought into account. Another method of raising funds was afforded by the giving of commissions in the Army to gentlemen who were unable to pass their examinations.

COLONEL LOCKWOOD (Essex, Epping)

asked, on a point of order, whether the hon. Member was not trifling with the time of the House.

THE CHAIRMAN

said the hon. Member did not appear to be speaking very relevantly. He was following the remarks of the hon. Gentleman very closely, and, though he could not say he was out of order, he would ask him to keep as near to the point as possible.

MR. CHURCHILL

said nothing was further from him than to trifle with the Committee. They were, it was true, scrutinising the Bill with greater minuteness than they would have done had not the Chancellor of the Exchequer treated the House in an abominable and discourteous manner.

THE CHAIRMAN

said those remarks, at any rate, were not relevant.

MR. CHURCHILL

said that possibly he had strayed a little from the subject. He suggested that the contribution from South Africa, the profits from the sale of stores, the sums that might be realised by contributions from officers whose intellects would not enable them to pass competitive examinations, the economies which the representative of the Board of Works expected to accrue from Big Ben's being illuminated with a green instead of a yellow light, and the imposition of a charge for the admission of motor-cars into Hyde Park during certain hours, were all sources from which additional revenue might be derived. He hoped that in moving his Amendment he could count on the support of all hon. Gentlemen who disapproved of the violent, unreasonable, uncharitable, and unfair course pursued by the Chancellor of the Exchequer in thrusting the Bill unexpectedly on the House.

Amendment proposed—

"In page 1, line 19, to leave out the word 'borrow,' and insert the word 'obtain.'"—(Mr. Churchill.)

Question proposed, "That the word 'borrow' stand part of the clause."

MR. McCRAE

said that in his Budget the Chancellor of the Exchequer obtained authority to borrow £10,000,000 on Exchequer bonds between April and December, not for the services of the year, but for the purpose of liquidating other Exchequer bonds falling out in December. The right hon. Gentleman had exercised that power to the extent of about £6,000,000. The Exchequer balances recently stood at £9,000,000 and in the following week at £10,000,000, and although they had been reduced for the moment by the payment of Supply and the laying aside of some £5,00a, 000 for the payment of dividends, the financial position was such that the right hon. Gentleman did not require to borrow to the same extent for Supply as he would have had to do in a normal year. He thought, therefore, the Committee should be very careful in giving further borrowing powers, and before any such powers were granted an undertaking ought to be given by the Chancellor of the Exchequer that the money would be applied only to the purposes for which it was voted. During recent years the practice of transferring money from one head to another without the consent of Parliament had grown to such an extent that it was be- coming a danger to the State. While the financial affairs of the nation were conducted in so lax a manner there was no wonder that expenditure went on increasing by leaps and bounds. It was necessary that a stop should be put to the growth of the floating debt, but if this clause were passed without any undertaking from the Chancellor of the Exchequer he feared that that debt would not be reduced as it ought to be.

MR. AUSTEN CHAMBERLAIN

said he should be extremely sorry if in his conduct of any measure he could fairly be charged with discourtesy to the House or to any Member. He honestly thought he was not open to the strong comments of the hon. Member for Oldham, which were couched in needlessly offensive language.

MR. CHURCHILL

said his language had reference to the right hon. Gentleman's political action, not his personal demeanour.

MR. AUSTEN CHAMBERLAIN

said he did not plead guilty to the charge, but it was unnecessary further to allude to it. With regard to the Amendment, he might remind the Committee that this was a common form of clause which had appeared for several years in these Bills, and such Bills had always been treated as non-controversial, or, at any rate, as not requiring any lengthened discussion. He need scarcely assure the Committee that the borrowing would be confined to what was absolutely necessary. The Treasury had to provide £10,000,000 against December; they could not raise it all at the last moment, so they were raising it in instalments during the year. As far as that money could be made available during the year advantage would be taken of it. But the provision was one that appeared in all such Bills, and the power to borrow was always used by the Chancellor of the Exchequer with as much moderation as the circumstances permitted. He hoped, therefore, that the Committee would allow the present Chancellor of the Exchequer and the present Government the discretion which had always been allowed by previous Bills of this character

MR. STUART SAMUEL (Tower Hamlets, Whitechapel)

said that if the Chancellor of the Exchequer, instead of bonowing in the early part of the year when money was dearest, had waited until the present time when money was under 2 per cent., and had raised it by Treasury bills instead of by Exchequer bonds, he would have got the money at practically half the rate that he had to pay on the last occasion. Considerable criticism had been directed against the method adopted by the Chancellor of the Exchequer.

MR. AUSTEN CHAMBERLAIN

asked whether the hon. Member was in order in discussing on the present Bill what in reality was a provision of the Finance Act.

THE CHAIRMAN

said the hon. Member would not be in order in discussing a previous borrowing.

MR. McCRAE

submitted that the matter came within the purview of the Committee, as the money was not being devoted to the purpose for which it was borrowed, but was lying in the bank, and could be made available for the purposes of this Bill.

MR. STUART SAMUEL

said he was about to suggest the manner in which the money should be obtained. He was opposed to any discretion being left to the Chancellor of the Exchequer as to the manner in which the money should be raised. The best form was that of Treasury bills, as money could be obtained so much more cheaply when it was to be repaid at short fixed intervals. Money could be obtained for six months at under 2 per cent., whereas under the wasteful procedure adopted by the Chancellor of the Exchequer 3 per cent, or 3¼ per cent, had had to be paid.

THE CHAIRMAN

reminded the hon. Member that the only question before the Committee was the substitution of "obtain" for "borrow."

MR. STUART SAMUEL

said that whether the Treasury "borrowed" or "obtained" they must issue something, and he was arguing in favour of Treasury bills as against Exchequer bonds. The manner in which money had been borrowed recently was condemned by practically all sound financial experts. He hoped the Chancellor of the Exchequer had no intention of adding to the permanent debt of the country, and that he would Dot, as on a previous occasion, payoff £7,000,000 by borrowing £9,000,000.

MR. AUSTEN CHAMBERLAIN

said that if the hon. Member would read the clause he would see that neither of those things could be done under the power granted by the Bill.

MR. SAMUEL EVANS

complained that not a single word of explanation had been given as to the purposes for which this money was required, nor had any reason been given for pressing the Bill at this sitting. The fact that it was the forty-seventh Order showed that it was not urgent.

THE CHAIRMAN

That question is not relevant to the Amendment before the Committee.

MR. SAMUEL EVANS

said he objected just as much to the Government's "obtaining" as he did to their "borrowing" this £16,000,000. There was no urgency for the Bill, and he moved to report Progress.

THE CHAIRMAN

said that under the powers vested in him he would put the Motion forthwith.

Question put, "That the Chairman do report Progress, and ask leave to sit again."

The Committee divided:—Ayes, 73; Noes, 117. (Division List No. 231.)

AYES.
Ainsworth, John Stirling	Brigg, John	Causton, Richard Knight
Barran, Rowland Hirst	Bright, Allan Heywood	Channing, Francis Allston
Barry, E. (Cork, S.)	Brown, George M. (Edinburgh)	Cheetham, John Frederick
Boland, John	Caldwell, James	Churchill, Winston Spencer
Cogan, Denis J.	Jordan, Jeremiah	O'Mara, James
Condon, Thomas Joseph	Kennedy, Vincent P. (Cavan, W	Pease, J. A. (Saffron Walden)
Crean, Eugene	Kilbride, Denis	Power, Patrick Joseph
Cremer, William Randal	Lawson, Sir Wilfrid (Cornwall)	Priestley, Arthur
Cullinan, J.	Lough, Thomas	Rea, Russell
Dalziel, James Henry	MacVeagh, Jeremiah	Reddy, M.
Devlin, Chas. Ramsay (Galway	M'Arthur, Wm. (Cornwall)	Roche, John (Galway, East)
Devlin, Joseph (Kilkenny, N.	M'Crae, George	Russell, T. W.
Doogan, P. C.	M'Killop, W. (Sligo, North)	Samuel, S. W. (Whitechapel)
Duffy, William J.	Markham, Arthur Basil	Seely, Maj. J. E B (Isle of Wight)
Ellice, Capt E C. (SAndrw'sBghs	Mitchell, Edw. (Fermanagh, N.	Sullivan, Donal
Farrell, James Patrick	Moss, Samuel	Taylor, Theodore C. (Radcliffe)
Findlay, Alex. (Lanark, N. E.	Muldoon, John	White, Luke (York, E. R.)
Flavin, Michael Joseph	Murphy, John	Whitley, J. H. (Halifax)
Gladstone, Rt. Hn. Herbert J.	Nannetti, Joseph P.	Williams, Osmond (Merioneth)
Griffith, Ellis J.	Nolan, Joseph (Louth, South)	Wills, Arthur Walters (N Dorset
Hammond, John	O'Brien, K. Tipperary Mid.)	Wilson, Fred. W (Norfolk, Mid.)
Harcourt, Lewis	O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny)
Hardie, J. Keir (Merthyr Tydvil	O'Connor, John (Kildare, N.)	TELLERS FOR THE AYES—Mr. Samuel Evans and Mr. Soares.
Helme, Norval Watson	O'Dowd, John
Higham, John Sharp	O'Kelly, Conor (Mayo, N.)
Jones, Leif (Appleby)	O'Malley, William
NOES.
Anson, Sir William Reynell	Fisher, William Hayes	Morrison, James Archibald
Arkwright, John Stanhope	Fitzroy, Hn. Edward Algernon	Mount, William Arthur
Arnold-Forster, Rt Hn. Hugh O.	Forster, Henry William	Murray, Charles J. (Coventry)
Arrol, Sir William	Galloway, William Johnson	Pease, Herb. Pike (Darlineton)
Atkinson, Rt. Hon. John	Gordon, J. (Londonderry, S.)	Percy, Earl
Balcarres, Lord	Gordon, Maj Evans (T'rH'mlets	Pierpoint, Robert
Balfour, Rt. Hn. A. J. (Manch'r	Gray, Ernest (West Ham)	Platt-Higgins, Frederick
Balfour, Capt. C. B. (Hornsey)	Hambro, Charles Eric	Pretyman, Ernest George
Balfour, Rt. Hn. Gerald W. (Leeds	Hamilton, Marq. of (L'donderry	Pryce-Jones, Lt.-Col. Edward
Banbury, Sir Frederick George	Hardy, L. (Kent, Ashford	Purvis, Robert
Banner, John S. Harmood-	Hare, Thomas Leigh	Randles, John S.
Bathurst, Hon. Allen Benjamin	Heath, Sir Jas. (Staffords N W.)	Reid, James (Greenock)
Bentinck, Lord Henry C.	Hope, J F. (Sheffield, Brightside	Ridley, S. Forde
Bhownaggree, Sir M. M.	Hozier, Hon. James Henry C.	Robertson, Herb. (Hackney)
Bignold, Sir Arthur	Hunt, Rowland	Royds, Clement Molyneux
Bingham, Lord	Jeffreys, Rt. Hon. Arthur Fred	Rutherford, John (Lancashire)
Blundell, Colonel Henry	Kenyon, Hon. Geo. T. (Denbigh	Rutherford, W. W. (Liverpool
Bond, Edward	Kenyon-Slaney, Rt. Hn. Col. W.	Scott, Sir S. (Marylebone, W.)
Boscawen, Arthur Griffith	Kerr, John	Seely, Chas. Hilton (Lincoln)
Brassey, Albert	Keswick, William	Smith, Abel H. (Hertford, East
Brodrick, Rt. Hon. St. John	Knowles, Sir Lees	Stanley, Hn. Arthur (Ormskirk
Brotherton, Edward Allen	Law, Andrew Bonar (Glasgow)	Stanley, Rt. Hn. Lord (Lanes)
Campbell, J. H. M. (Dublin Univ	Lawrence, Sir J. (Monm'th)	Stirling-Maxwell, Sir John M.
Carson, Rt. Hn. Sir Edw. H.	Lawrence, Wm. F. (Liverpool)	Strutt, Hn. Charles Hedley
Cawendish, V. C. W. (Derbyshire	Lawson, Hn H. L. W. (Mile End)	Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester)
Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor)	Lee, A. H. (Hants, Fareham)	Tomlinson, Sir Wm. Edw. M.
Chamberlain, Rt Hn. J A. (Worc.	Legge, Col. Hon. Heneage	Tuff, Charles
Chapman, Edward	Leveson-Gower, Frederick N. S	Tuke, Sir John Batty
Clive, Captain Percy A.	Lockwood, Lieut.-Col. A. R.	Walker, Col. William Hall
Coates, Edward Feetham	Long, Rt. Hn. Walter (Bristol, S	Walrond, Rt. Hn. Sir Wm. H.
Cochrane, Hn. Thos. H. A. E.	Lucas, Col. Francis (Lowestoft)	Warde, Colonel C. E.
Compton, Lord Alwyne	Lucas, Reginald J. (Portsmouth	Whitmore, Charles Algernon
Corbett, T. L. (Down, North)	Lyttelton, Rt. Hon. Alfred	Williams, Colonel R. (Dorset)
Davenport, W. Bromley	M'Killop, James (Stirlingshire)	Wilson, A. Stanley (York, E. R.
Dickson, Charles Scott	Majendie, James A. H.	Wylie, Alexander
Doughty, Sir George	Marks, Harry Hananel
Douglas, Rt. Hn. A. Akers-	Milvain Thomas	TELLERS F0R THE NOES—Sir Alexander Acland-Hood and Viscount Valentia.
Fellowes Rt Hn Ailwyn Edward	Moon, Edward Robert Pacy
Fielden Edward Brocklehurst	Morgan D. J. (Walthamstow)
Finch, Rt. Hon. George H.	Morpeth, Viscount
Finlay, Sir R. B. (Inv'rn'ssB'ghs	Morrell, George Herbert

Mr. CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER rose in his place, and claimed to move, "That the Question be now put."

Question put, "That the Question be now put."

The Committee divided:—Ayes, 118; Noes, 72 (Division List No. 232.)

AYES.
Anson, Sir William Reynell	Finlay, Sir R B(Inv'rn'ssB'ghs)	Morrell, George Herbert
Arkwright, John Stanhope	Fisher, William Hayes	Morrison, James Archibald
Arnold-Forster, Rt Hn Hugh O.	Fitzroy, Hon. Edw. Algernon	Mount, William Arthur
Arrol, Sir William	Forster, Henry William	Murray, Chas. J. (Coventry)
Atkinson, Rt. Hon. John	Galloway, William Johnson	Pease, Herb. Pike (Darlington)
Balcarres, Lord	Gordon, J (Londonderry, South	Percy, Earl
Balfour, Rt. Hn. A. J. (Manch'r.	Gordon, Maj Evans (T'rH'mlets	Pierpoint, Robert
Balfour, Capt. C. B. (Hornsey)	Gray, Ernest (West Ham)	Platt-Higgins, Frederick
Balfour, Rt Hn Gerald W (Leeds	Hambro, Charles Eric	Pretyman, Ernest George
Banbury, Sir Frederick George	Hamilton, Marq of (L'donderry	Pryce-Jones, Lt. -Col. Edward
Banner, John S. Harmood-	Hardy, L. (Kent, Ashford)	Purvis, Robert
Bathurst, Hon. Allen Benjamin	Hare, Thomas Leigh	Randles, John S.
Bentinck, Lord Henry C.	Heath, Sir J. (Staffords. N. W.	Reid, James (Greenock)
Bhownaggree, Sir M. M.	Hope, J F (Sheffield Brightside)	Ridley, S. Forde
Bignold, Sir Arthur	Hozier, Hn. James Henry Cecil	Robertson, Herbert (Hackney)
Bingham, Lord	Hunt, Rowland	Royds, Clement Molyneux
Blundell, Colonel Henry	Jeffreys, Rt. Hn. Arthur Fred	Rutherford, John (Lancashire
Bond, Edward	Kenyon, Hon. Geo. T. (Denbigh	Rutherford, W. W. (Liverpool)
Boscawen, Arthur Griffith	Kenyon-Slaney, Rt. Hn. Col. W	Scott, Sir S. (Marylebone, W.)
Brassey, Albert	Kerr, John	Seely, Chas. Hilton (Lincoln)
Brodrick, Rt. Hn. St. John	Keswick, William	Smith, Abel H. (Hertford, East
Brotherton, Edward Allen	Knowles, Sir Lees	Stanley, Hn. Arthur (Ormskirk
Campbell, J. H. M. (Dublin Univ.	Law, Andrew Bonar (Glasgow)	Stanley, Rt. Hn. Lord (Lanes)
Carson, Rt. Hn. Sir Edw. H.	Lawrence, Sir J. (Monmouth)	Stirling-Maxwell, Sir John M.
Cavendish, V. C. W. (Derbysh.	Lawrence, Wm. F. (Liverpool)	Strutt, Hon. Charles Hedley
Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor)	Lawson, Hn. H. L W (Mile End)	Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester)
Chamberlain, Rt Hn J A (Worc.	Lee, A. H. (Hants, Fareham)	Tomlinson, Sir Wm. Edw. M.
Channing, Francis Allston	Legge, Col. Hon. Heneage	Tuff, Charles
Chapman, Edward	Leveson-Gower, Frederick, N S.	Tuke, Sir John Batty
Clive, Captain Percy A.	Lockwood, Lieut.-Col. A. R.	Walker, Col. William Hall
Coates, Edward Feetham	Long, Rt Hn Walter (Bristol, S.	Walrond, Rt. Hn. Sir Wm. H.
Cochrane, Hon. Thos. H. A. E.	Lucas, Col. F. (Lowestoft)	Warde, Colonel C. E.
Compton, Lord Alwyne	Lucas, Reginald J. (Portsm'th	Whitmore, Charles Algernon
Corbett, T. L. (Down, North)	Lyttelton, Rt. Hn. Alfred	Williams, Colonel R. (Dorset)
Davenport, W. Bromley	M'Killop, James (Stirlingshire)	Wi'son, A. Stanley (York, E. R
Dickson, Charles Scott	Majendie, James A. H	Wylie, Alexander
Doughty, Sir George	Marks, Harry Hananel
Douglas, Rt. Hn. A. Akers-	Milvain, Thomas	TELLERS FOR THE AYES—Sir Alexander Acland-Hood and Viscount Valentia
Fellowes, Rt. Hn. Ailwyn Edw.	Moon, Edward Robert Pacy
Fielden, Edward Brocklehurst	Morgan, D. J. (Walthamstow)
Finch, Rt. Hn. George H.	Morpeth, Viscount
NOES.
Ainsworth, John Stirling	Evans, Samuel T. (Glamorgan)	Moss, Samuel
Barran, Rowland Hirst	Farrell, James Patrick	Muldoon, John
Barry, E. (Cork, S.)	Findlay, Alex. (Lanark, N. E.)	Murphy, John
Boland, John	Flavin, Michael Joseph	Nannetti, Joseph P.
Brigg, John	Gladstone, Rt. Hn. Herb. John	Nolan, Joseph (Louth, South)
Bright, Allan Heywood	Griffith, Ellis J.	O'Brien, K. (Tipperary Mid.)
Brown, G. M. (Edinburgh)	Hammond, John	O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny)
Caldwell, James	Harcourt, Lewis	O'Connor, John (Kildare, N.)
Causton, Richard Knight	Hardie, J Keir (Merthyr Tydvil)	O'Dowd, John
Cheetham, John Frederick	Helme, Norval Watson	O'Kelly, Conor (Mayo, N.)
Churchill, Winston Spencer	Higham, John Sharp	O'Malley, William
Cogan, Denis J.	Jones, Leif (Appleby)	Pease, J. A. (Saffron Walden)
Condon, Thomas Joseph	Jordan, Jeremiah	Power, Patrick Joseph
Crean, Eugene	Kennedy, Vincent P. (Cavan, W	Priestley, Arthur
Cremer, William Randal	Kilbride, Denis	Rea, Russell
Cullinan, J.	Lawson, Sir Wilfrid (Cornwall)	Reddy, M.
Dalziel, James Henry	Lough, Thomas	Roche, John (Galway, East)
Devlin, Chas. Ramsay (Galway	M'Arthur, William (Cornwall)	Russell, T. W.
Devlin, Joseph (Kilkenny, N.)	M'Crae, George	Samuel, S. M. (Whitechapel)
Doogan, P. C.	M'Killop, W. (Sligo, North)	Seely, Maj. J E B (Isle of Wight)
Duffy, William J.	Markham, Arthur Basil	Soares, Ernest J.
Ellice, Capt E C (SAndrw's Bghs)	Mitchell, Edw (Fermanagh, N.	Sullivan, Donal
Taylor, Theodore C. (Radcliffe)	Williams, Osmond (Merioneth)	TELLERS FOR THE NOES—Mr. O'Mara and Mr. Mac Veagh.
White, Luke (York, E. R.)	Wills, ArthurWalters (N Dorset
Whitley, J. H. (Halifax)	Wilson, Fred W (Norfolk, Mid.)

Question put accordingly, "That the word 'borrow' stand part of the clause."

The Committee divided:—Ayes, 117; Noes, 73 (Division List No. 233)

AYES.
Anson, Sir William Reynell	Fisher, William Hayes	Morrison, James Archibald
Arkwright, John Stanhope	Fitzroy, Hn. Edw. Algernon	Mount, William Arthur
Arnold-Forster, Rt Hn Hugh O.	Forster, Henry William	Murray, Charles J. (Coventry)
Arrol, Sir William	Galloway, William Johnson	Pease, Herb. Pike (Darlington)
Atkinson, Rt. Hon. John	Gordon, J (Londonderry, South	Percy, Earl
Balcarres, Lord	Gordon, Maj. Evans (T'r H'm'ts	Pierpoint, Robert
Balfour, Rt. Hn. A J (Manch'r	Gray, Ernest (West Ham)	Platt-Higgins, Frederick
Balfour, Capt. C. B (Hornsey)	Hambro, Charles Eric	Pretyman, Ernest George
Balfour, Rt Hn Gerald W (Leeds)	Hamilton, Marq. of (L'donderry	Pryce-Jones, Lt.-Col. Edw.
Banbury, Sir Frederick George	Hardy, L. (Kent, Ashford)	Purvis, Robert
Banner, John S. Harmood-	Hare, Thomas Leigh	Randies, John S.
Bathurst, Hn. Allen Benjamin	Heath, Sir Jas. (Staffords. N. W.	Reid, James (Greenock)
Bentinck, Lord Henry C.	Hope, J. F. (Sheffield, Brightside	Ridley, S. Forde
Bhownaggree, Sir M. M.	Hozier, Hn. James Henry Cecil	Robertson, Herb. (Hackney)
Bignold, Sir Arthur	Hunt, Rowland	Royds, Clement Molyneux
Bingham, Lord	Jeffreys, Rt. Hn. Arthur Fred.	Rutherford, John (Lancashire)
Blundell, Colonel Henry	Kenyon, Hn. Geo. T. (Denbigh)	Rutherford, W. W. (Liverpool)
Bond, Edward	Kenyon-Slaney, Rt. Hn. Col. W.	Scott, Sir S. (Marylebone, W.)
Boscawen, Arthur Griffith	Kerr, John	Seely, Chas. Hilton (Lincoln)
Brassey, Albert	Keswick, William	Smith, Abel H (Hertford, East
Brodrick, Rt. Hn. St. John	Knowles, Sir Lees	Stanley, Hn. Arthur (Ormskirk
Brotherton, Edward Allen	Law, Andrew Bonar (Glasgow)	Stanley, Rt. Hn. Lord (Lanes.)
Campell, J. H M (Dublin Univ.)	Lawrence, Sir J. (Monm'th)	Stirling-Maxwell, Sir John M.
Carson, Rt. Hn. Sir Edw. H.	Lawrence, Wm. F. (Liverpool)	Strutt, Hn. Charles Hedley
Cavendish, V. C. W. (Derbysh.	Lawson, Hn. H. L. W (Mile End)	Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester)
Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor)	Lee, A. H. (Hants, Fareham)	Tomlinson, Sir Wm. Edw. M.
Chamberlain, Rt Hn J A (Worc)	Legge, Col. Hn. Heneage	Tuff, Charles
Chapman, Edward	Leveson-Gower, Frederick N. S.	Tuke, Sir John Batty
Clive, Captain Percy A.	Lockwood, Lieut.-Col. A. R.	Walker, Col. William Hall
Coates, Edward Feetham	Long, Rt. Hn. Walter (Bristol. S	Walrond, Rt. Hon. Sir Wm. H.
Cochrane, Hn. Thos. H. A. E	Lucas, Col. Francis (Lowestoft)	Warde, Colonel C. E.
Compton, Lord Alwyne	Lucas, Reginald J. (Portsmouth	Whitmore, Charles Algernon
Corbett, T. L. (Down, North)	Lyttelton, Rt. Hon. Alfred	Williams, Colonel R. (Dorset).
Davenport, W. Bromley	M'Killop, James (Stirlingshire)	Wilson, A. Stanley (York, E. R.
Dickson, Charles Scott	Majendie, James A. H.	Wylie, Alexander
Doughty, Sir George	Marks, Harry Hananel
Douglas, Rt. Hn. A. Akers-	Milvain, Thomas	TELLERS FOR THE AYES—Sir Alexander Acland-Hood and Viscount Valentia.
Fellowes, Rt Hn Ailwyn Edward	Moon, Edward Robert Pacy
Fielden, Edward Brocklehurst	Morgan, D. J. (Walthamstow)
Finch, Rt. Hon. George H.	Morpeth, Viscount
Finlay, Sir R B (Inv'rn'ssB'ghs)	Morrell, George Herbert
NOES.
Ainsworth, John Stirling	Devlin, Joseph (Kilkenny, N.)	Lawson, Sir Wilfrid (Cornwall)
Barran, Rowland Hirst	Doogan, P. C.	Lough, Thomas
Barry, E. (Cork, S.	Duffy, William J.	MacVeagh, Jeremiah
Boland, John	Ellice, Capt. E C (SAndrw'sBghs	M'Arthur, William (Cornwall)
Brigg, John	Evans, Samuel T. (Glamorgan)	M'Crae, George
Bright, Allan Heywood	Farrell, James Patrick	M'Killop, W. (Sligo, North)
Brown, George M. (Edinburgh)	Findlay, Alex. (Lanark, N. E)	Markham, Arthur Basil
Caldwell, James	Flavin, Michael Joseph	Mitchell, Edw. (Fermanagh, N.
Causton, Richard Knight	Gladstone, Rt. Hn Herb. John	Moss, Samuel
Channing, Francis Allston	Griffith, Ellis J.	Muldoon, John
Cheetham, John Frederick	Hammond, John	Murphy, John
Cogan, Denis J.	Hardie, J. Keir (Merthyr Tydvil	Nannetti, Joseph P.
Condon, Thomas Joseph	Helme, Norval Watson	Nolan, Joseph (Louth, South)
Crean, Eugene	Higham, John Sharp	O'Brien, K. (Tipperary Mid.
Cremer, William Randal	Jones, Leif (Appleby)	O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny)
Cullinan, J.	Jordan, Jeremiah	O'Connor, John (Kildare, N.)
Dalziel, James Henry	Kennedy Vincent P (Cavan, W	O'Dowd, John
Devlin, Chas. Ramsay (Galway)	Kilbride, Denis	O'Kelly, Conor (Mayo, N.)
O'Malley, William	Russell, T. W.	Williams Osmond (Merioneth)
O'Mara, James	Samuel, S. M. (Whitechapel)	Wills, Arthur Walters (N Dorset
Pease, J. A. (Saffron Walden)	Seely, Maj J E B (Isleof Wight)	Wilson, Fred. W (Norfolk, Mid.
Power, Patrick Joseph	Soares, Ernest J.
Priestley, Arthur	Sullivan, Donal	TELLERS FOR THE NOES—Mr. Churchill and Mr. Harcourt.
Rea, Russell	Taylor, Theodore C. (Radcliffe
Reddy, M.	White, Luke (York, E. R.)
Roche, John (Galway, East)	Whitley, J. H. (Halifax)

Mr. CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER

claimed to move, "That the Question 'That Clause 2 stand part of the Bill' be now put."

Question put, "That the Question 'That Clause 2 stand part of the Bill' be now put."

While the House was being, cleared.

MR. CHURCHILL

said, we have been discussing the first sub-section of this clause only. Do I understand that you have actually accepted the closure on the other two sub-sections which have not even been approached by the Committee.

MAJOR SEELY

said that the Chairman had at an earlier period called on him to move an Amendment. That being so, was it not unusual to accept the closure?

THE CHAIRMAN

I think the hon. Member's memory is a little defective. What I said was that I considered the Amendment to be moved in a spirit of sarcasm or mockery.

MAJOR SEELY

said that possibly that was what the Chairman intended to have said, but in point of fact he called his name and h; stood up to move the Amendment.

MR. LOUGH

asked whether there was any necessity to move the closure a second time. Was not one closure Motion sufficient?

THE CHAIRMAN

No, if the hon. Member will read the rule.

The Committee divided:—Ayes, 116, Noes, 73. (Division List No. 234)

AYES
Anson, Sir William Reynell	Corbett, T. L. (Down, North)	Lawson, Hn. H. L. W. (Mile End)
Arkwright, John Stanhope	Davenport, W. Bromley	Lee, A. H. (Hants, Fareham)
Arnold-Forster. Rt. Hn. Hugho	Dickson, Charles Scott	Legge, Col. Hon. Heneage
Arrol, Sir William	Doughty, Sir George	Leveson-Gower, Frederick N. S
Atkinson, Rt. Hon. John	Douglas, Rt. Hn. A. Akers-	Lockwood, Lieut,-Col. A. R.
Balcarres, Lord	Fellowes, Rt. Hn Ailwyn Edw.	Long, Rt. Hn. Walter(Bristol, S.)
Balfour, Rt. Hn. A. J. (Manch'r.	Fielden, Edward Brocklehurst	Lucas, Col Francis (Lowestoft)
Balfour, Capt. C. B. (Hornsey)	Finch, Rt. Hn. George H.	Lucas, Reginald J (Portsm'th
Balfour, Rt Hn. Gerald W (Leeds)	Finlay, Sir R. B. (Inv'rn'ssB'ghs	Lyttelton, Rt. Hn. Alfred
Banbury, Sir Frederick George	Fisher, William Hayes	M'Killop, James (Stirlingshire)
Banner, John S. Harmood-	Fitzroy, Hn. Edward Algernon	Majendie, James A. H.
Bathurst, Hon. Allen Benjamin	Forster, Henry William	Marks, Harry Hananel
Bentinck, Lord Henry C.	Galloway, William Johnson	Milvain, Thomas
Bhownaggree, Sir M. M.	Gordon, J. (Londonderry, South	Moon, Edward Robert Pacy
Bignold, Sir Arthur	Gordon, Maj Evans (TrH'mlets)	Morgan, D. J. (Walthamstow)
Bingham, Lord	Gray, Ernest (West Ham)	Morpeth, Viscount
Blundell, Colonel Henry	Hambro, Charles Eric	Morrell, George Herbert
Bond, Edward	Hamilton, Marc. Of (L'donderry)	Morrison, James Archibald
Boscawen, Arthur Griffith	Hardy, L. (Kent, Ashford)	Mount, William Arthur
Brassey, Albert	Hare, Thomas Leigh	Murray, Charles J. (Coventry)
Brodrick, Rt. Hn. St. John	Heath, Sir Jas. (Staffords. N. W	Pease, Herb. P. (Darlington)
Brotherton, Edward Allen	Hope, J. F (Sheffield, Brightside	Percy, Earl
Campbell, J. H. M. (Dublin Univ.	Hozier, Hn. James Henry Cecil	Pierpoint, Robert
Carson, Rt. Hn. Sir Edw. H.	Hunt, Rowland	Piatt-Higgins, Frederick
Cavendish, V. C. W. (Derbysh.	Jeffreys, Rt. Hn. Arthur Fred	Pretyman, Ernest George
Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor)	Kenyon-Slaney, Rt. Hn. Col. W.	Pryce-Jones, Lt. Col. Edward
Chamberlain, Rt. Hn J A (Worc.)	Kerr, John	Purvis, Robert
Chapman, Edward	Keswick, William	Randles, John S.
Clive, Captain Percy A.	Knowles, Sir Lees	Reid, James (Greenock)
Coates, Edward Feetham	Law, Andrew Bonar (Glasgow)	Ridley, S. Forde
Cochrane, Hn. Thos. H. A. E.	Lawrence; Sir J. (Monm'th)	Robertson, Herbert (Hackney
Compton, Lord Alwyne	Lawrence, Wm. F. (Liverpool	Royds, Clement Molyneux
Rutherford, John (Lancashire	Strutt, Hn. Charles Hedley	Whitmore, Charles Algernon
Rutherford, W. W. (Liverpool)	Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester)	Williams, Colonel R. (Dorset)
Scott, Sir S. (Marylebone, W.)	Tomlinson, Sir Wm. Edw. M.	Wilson, A. Stanley (York, E. R.
Seely, Charles Hilton (Lincoln)	Tuff, Charles	Wylie, Alexander
Smith, Abel H. (Hertford, East	Tuke, Sir John Batty
Stanley, Hn. Arthur (Ormskirk)	Walker, Col. William Hall	TELLERS FOR THE AYES—Sir Alexander Acland-Hood and Viscount Valentia,
Stanley, Rt. Hn. Lord (Lancs)	Walrond, Rt. Hn. Sir Wm. H.
Stirling-Maxwell, Sir John M.	Warde, Colonel C. E.
NOES.
Ainsworth, John Stirling	Gladstone, Rt. Hn. Herb. John	O'Connor, John (Kildare, N.)
Barran, Rowland Hirst	Griffith, Ellis J.	O'Dowd, John
Barry, E. (Cork, S.)	Hammond, John	O'Kelly, Conor (Mayo, N.)
Boland, John	Harcourt, Lewis	O'Malley, William
Brigg, John	Hardie, J. Keir (Merthyr Tydvil	O'Mara, James
Bright, Allan Heywood	Helme, Norval Watson	Pease, J. A. (Saffron Walden)
Brown, G. M. (Edinburgh)	Higham, John Sharp	Power, Patrick Joseph
Caldwell, James	Jones, Leif (Appleby)	Priestley, Arthur
Causton, Richard Knight	Jordan, Jeremiah	Rea, Russell
Channing, Francis Allston	Kennedy, Vincent P. (Cavan, W	Reddy, M.
Cheetham, John Frederick	Kilbride, Denis	Roche, John (Galway, East)
Cogan, Denis J.	Lawson, Sir Wilfrid (Cornwall)	Russell, T. W.
Condon, Thomas Joseph	Lough, Thomas	Samuel, S. M. (Whitecbapel)
Crean, Eugene	Mac Veagh, Jeremiah	Soares, Ernest J.
Cremer, William Randal	M'Arthur, William (Cornwall)	Sullivan, Donal
Cullinan, J.	M'Crae, George	Taylor, Theodore C. (Radcliffe)
Dalziel, James Henry	M'Killop, W. (Sligo, North)	White, Luke (York, E. R.)
Devlin, Chas. Ramsay (Galway	Markham, Arthur Basil	Whitley, J. H. (Halifax)
Devlin, Joseph (Kilkenny, N.)	Mitchell, Edw. (Fermanagh, R.	Williams, Osmond (Merioneth
Doogan, P. C.	Moss, Samuel	Wills, Arthur Walters (N Dorset
Duffy, William J.	Muldoon, John	Wilson, Fred W. (Norfolk, Mid.)
Ellice, Capt E C. (SAndrw'sB'ghs	Murphy, John
Evans, Samuel T. (Glamorgan)	Nannetti, Joseph P.	TELLERS FOR THE NOES—Mr. Churchill and Major Seely.
Farrell, James Patrick	Nolan, Joseph (Louth, South)
Findlay, Alexander(Lanark, N E	O'Brien, K. (Tipperary Mid.
Flavin, Michael Joseph	O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny)

Question put accordingly, That Clause 2 stand part of the Bill."

The Committee divided:—Ayes, 116; I Noes, 71. (Division List No. 235.)

Clause 3:—

Question proposed, "That the clause stand part of the Bill."

MR. SOARES

said he desired to move the substitution of the word "shall" for the word "may."

THE CHAIRMAN

The form of words in the clause is one which has been put into nearly every Act of Parliament and is consecrated by long usage; I cannot allow the Amendment.

MR. CHURCHILL

said he failed to understand why the measure was brought before the Committee at all if they were not to be allowed to move any Amendments whatever. He submitted that the drafting of the Bill was a matter within the competence of the House.

MR. J. A. PEASE (Essex. Saffron Walden)

pointed out that only on Friday last several hon. Members objected to the Trustee Bill on the ground that "may" had been inserted instead of "shall," and it was only when the Government agreed to alter the word that the objections were withdrawn.

THE CHAIRMAN

said he must not be taken as ruling that the substitution of "shall" for "may" would never be in order. All he said was that he could not accept it on the present occasion.

MR. CHURCHILL

said that, in view of the fact that the Committee had now taken five divisions on end, and that under the last ruling not even a drafting Amendment could be moved, he would ask leave to move to report Progress.

THE CHAIRMAN

said he could not accept the Motion.

MR. CHURCHILL

asked to be allowed to state his reasons for the Motion. Unless the proceedings were to degenerate into a test of physical strength merely, he suggested that a few words of argument might occasionally be allowed to interrupt the procession through the lobbies.

THE CHAIRMAN

The Question is that Clause 3 stand part of the Bill.

MR. CHURCHILL

Then you will not accept my Motion.

THE CHAIRMAN

That is so.

MR CHURCHILL

said it was not for him to comment upon the refusal of the Chair, but he deeply regretted the decision. He could not help thinking that the Opposition had been treated in a manner that would be used against hon. Members opposite at no distant date. Members were allowed to criticise the wording of the clause, but they were not allowed to move Amendments to give effect to their criticisms. He could not move to substitute "shall" for "may," though he might show that "shall" would he much more appropriate than "may." "Shall" was of an imperative nature, and was therefore much more in harmony with the manner in which the Bill had been forced through Committee. Then, too, the word "intituled" was more usual than the word "cited." An Act must be intituled something before it could be cited. On this point he would appeal to the Prime Minister as a literary man—

THE CHAIRMAN

Order, order. I think the hon. Member is trifling with, the Committee.

MR. CHURCHILL

said nothing was farther from his desire. He asked where was the Chancellor of the Exchequer who, having imposed upon the House the odious task of sitting up, had now gone off somewhere to bed. A more discreditable example had never been set to a Party. He regretted that the Prime Minister, who had almost as much authority over the Chancellor of the Exchequer as the right hon. Gentleman the Member for West Birmingham, had not thought it proper to retain the services of his chief financial adviser in the conduct of this Bill.

MR. A. J. BALFOUR

rose in his place, and claimed to move, "That the Question be now put."

Question put, "That the Question be now put."

The Committee divided:—Ayes, 115; Noes, 70. (Division List No. 236.)

AYES.
Anson, Sir William Reynell	Clive, Captain Percy A.	Jeffreys, Rt. Hn. Arthur Fred.
Arkwright, John Stanhope	Coates, Edward Feetham	Kenyon-Slaney, Rt Hn. Col. W.
Arnold-Forster, Rt Hn Hugh O.	Cochrane, Hon. Thos. H. A. E.	Kerr, John
Arrol, Sir William	Compton, Lord Alwyne	Keswick, William
Atkinson, Rt. Hon. John	Corbett, T. L. (Down, North	Knowles, Sir Lees
Balcarres, Lord	Davenport, W. Bromley	Law, Andrew Bonar (Glasgow)
Balfour, Rt Hn. A. J. (Manch'r)	Dickson, Charles Scott	Lawrence, Sir J. (Monm'th)
Balfour, Capt, C. B (Hornsey)	Doughty, Sir George	Lawrence, Wm. F. (Liverpool)
Balfour, Rt. Hn Gerald W (Leeds	Douglas, Rt. Hn. A. Akers-	Lawson, Hn. H. L. W. (Mile End
Banbury, Sir Frederick George	Fellowes, Rt Hn Ailwyn Edward	Lee, A. H. (Hants, Fareham)
Banner, John S. Harmood-	Fielden, Edward Brocklehurst	Legge, Col. Hon. Heneage
Bathurst, Hn. Allen Benjamin	Finch, Rt. Hn. George H.	Leveson-Gower, Frederick N. S.
Bentinck, Lord Henry C.	Finlay, Sir R B (Inv'rn'ss B'ghs)	Lockwood, Lieut.-Col A. R.
Bhownaggree, Sir M. M.	Fisher, William Hayes	Long, Rt. Hn Walter (Bristol, S-
Bignold, Sir Arthur	Fitzroy, Hn. EdwardAlgernon	Lucas, Col. Francis (Lowestoft
Bingham, Lord	Forster, Henry William	Lucas, Reginald J (Portsm'th
Blundell, Colonel Henry	Galloway, William Johnson	Lyttelton, Rt. Hn. Alfred
Bond, Edward	Gordon, J (Londonderry, South	M'Killop, James (Stirlingshire)
Boscawen, Arthur Griffith	Gordon, Maj Evans (T'rH'mlets	Majendie, James A. H.
Brassey, Albert	Gray, Ernest (West Ham)	Marks, Harry Hananel
Brodrick, Rt. Hn. St. John	Hambro, Charles Eric	Milvain, Thomas
Brotherton, Edward Allen	Hamilton, Marq. of (L'donderry	Moon, Edward Robert Pacy
Campbell, J H M (Dublin Univ.)	Hardy, L. (Kent, Ashford	Morgan, D. J. (Walthamstow)
Carson, Rt. Hn. Sir Edw. H.	Hare, Thomas Leigh	Morpeth, Viseount
Cavendish, V. C. W. (Derbysh.	Heath, Sir Jas. (Staffords N. W.	Morrell, George Herbert
Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor)	Hope, J F (Sheffield, Brightside	Morrison, James Archibald
Chamberlain, Rt. Hn J A. (Worc.	Hozier, Hn. James Henry Cecil	Mount, William Arthur
Chapman, Edward	Hunt, Rowland	Murray, Chas. J. (Coventry)
Pease, Herb. Pike (Darlington)	Rutherford, John (Lancashire)	Tuke, Sir John Batty
Percy, Earl	Rutherford, W. V. (Liverpool)	Walker, Col. William Hall
Pierpoint, Robert	Scott, Sir S. (Marylebone, W.)	Walrond, Rt Hn Sir William H.
Platt-Higgins, Frederick	Seely, Charles Hilton (Lincoln)	Warde, Colonel C. E.
Pretyman, Ernest George	Smith, Abel H. (Hertford, East	Whitmore, Charles Algernon
Pryce-Jones, Lt.-Col. Edward	Stanley, Hn. Arthur (Ormskirk	Williams, Colonel R. (Dorset
Purvis, Robert	Stanley, Rt. Hn. Lord (Lanes.)	Wilson, A. Stanley (York, E. R.
Randles, John S.	Stirling-Maxwell, Sir John M.	Wylie, Alexander
Reid, James (Greenock)	Strutt, Hn. Charles Hedley
Ridley, S. Forde	Talbot Lord E. (Chichester)	TELLERS FOR THE AYES—Sir Alexander Acland-Hood and Viscount Valentia.
Robertson, Herbert (Hackney)	Tomlinson, Sir Wm. Edw. M
Royds, Clement Molyneux	Tuff, Charles
NOES.
Ainsworth, John Stirling	Flavin, Michael Joseph	O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny)
Barran, Rowland Hirst	Gladstone, Rt Hn Herbert John	O'Connor, John (Kldare, N.)
Barry, E. (Cork, S.)	Griffith, Ellis J.	O'Dowd, John
Boland, John	Hammond, John	O'Kelly, Conor (Mayo, N.)
Brigg, John	Harcourt, Lewis	O'Malley, William
Bright, Allan Heywood	Hardie, J Keir (Merthyr Tydvil)	O'Mara, James
Brown, George M. (Edinburgh	Helme, Norval Walton	Pease, J. A. (Saffron Walden
Caldwell, James	Higham, John Sharp	Power, Patrick Joseph
Causton, Richard Knight	Jones, Leif (Appleby)	Priestley, Arthur
Channing, Francis Allston	Jordan, Jeremiah	Reddy, M.
Cheetham, John Frederick	Kennedy, Vincent P (Cavan, W	Roche, John (Galway, East)
Cogan, Denis J.	Kilbride, Denis	Russell, T. W.
Condon, Thomas Joseph	Lawson, Sir Wilfrid (Cornwall)	Samuel, S. M. (Whitechapel)
Crean, Eugene	Mac Veagh, Jeremiah	Seely, Maj J. E. B. (Isle of Wight
Cremer, William Randal	M'Arthur, Wm. (Cornwall)	Soares, Ernest J.
Cullinan, J.	M'Crae, George	Sullivan, Dona
Dalziel, Janies Henry	M'Killop, W. (Sligo, North)	White, Luke (York, E. R.)
Devlin, Chas. Ramsay (Galway)	Markham, Arthur Basil	Whitley, J. H. (Halifax)
Devlin, Joseph (Kilkenny, N.)	Mitchell, Edw. (Fermanagh, N.	Williams, Osmond (Merioneth)
Doogan, P. C.	Moss, Samuel	Wills, Arthur Walters (N. Dorset
Duffy, William J.	Muldoon, John	Wilson, Fred W (Norfolk, Mid.)
Ellice, Capt E C (SAndrw'sB'ghs	Murphy John
Evans, S. T. (Glamorgan)	Nannetti, Joseph P.	TELLERS FOR THE NOES—Mr. Russell Rea and Mr. Theodore Taylor.
Farrell, James Patrick	Nolan, Joseph (Louth, South)
Findlay, Alex. (Lanark, N. E.)	O'Brien, K. (Tipperary Mid.)

AYES.
Anson, Sir William Reynell	Pinch, Rt. Hon. George H.	Morrell, George Herbert
Arkwright, John Stanhope	Finlay, Sir R B (Inv'rn'ss B'ghs)	Morrison, James Archibald
Arnold-Forster, Rt Hn Hugh O.	Fisher, William Hayes	Mount, William Arthur
Arrol, Sir William	Fitzroy, Hn. Edward Algernon	Murray, Chas. J. (Coventry)
Atkinson, Rt. Hon. John	Forster, Henry William	Pease, Herb. Pike (Darlington)
Balcarres, Lord	Galloway, William Johnson	Percy, Earl
Balfour, Rt. Hn. A. J. (Manch'r	Gordon, J. (Londonderry, S.)	Pierpoint, Robert
Balfour, Capt C. B. (Hornsey)	Gordon, Maj Evans (T'rH'mlets	Platt-Higgins, Frederick
Balfour, Rt Hn Gerald W (Leeds	Gray, Ernest (West Ham)	Pretyman, Ernest George
Banbury, Sir Frederick George	Hamhro, Charles Eric	Pryce-Jones, Lt.-Col Edward
Banner, John S. Harmood-	Hamilton, Marq of (L'nd'nderry	Purvis, Robert
Bathurst, Hn. Allen Benjamin	Hardy, L. (Kent, Ashford)	Randles, John S.
Bentinck, Lord Henry C.	Hare, Thomas Leigh	Reid, James (Greenock)
Bhownaggree, Sir M. M.	Heath, Sir Jas. (Staffords N W.	Ridley, S. Forde
Bignold, Sir Arthur	Hope, J F (Sheffield, Brightside)	Robertson, Herb. (Hackney)
Bingham, Lord	Hozier, Hn. James Henry Cecil	Royds, Clement Molyneux
Blundell, Colonel Henry	Hunt, Rowland	Rutherford, John (Lancashire)
Bond, Edward	Jeffreys, Rt. Hn Arthur Fred	Rutherford, W. W. (Liverpool)
Boscawen, Arthur Griffith	Kenyon-Slaney, Rt. Hn. Col. W	Scott, Sir S. (Marylebone, W.)
Brassey, Albert	Kerr, John	Seely, Chas. Hilton (Lincoln)
Brodrick, Rt. Hn. St. John	Keswick, William	Smith, Abel H (Hertford, East)
Brotherton, Edward Allen	Knowles, Sir Lees	Stanley, Hn. Arthur (Ormskirk
Campbell, J. H. M. (Dublin Univ	Law, Andrew Bonar (Glasgow)	Stanley, Rt. Hn. Lord (Lanes.)
Carson, Rt. Hn. Sir Edw. H.	Lawrence, Sir J (Monm'th)	Stirling-Maxwell, Sir John M
Cavendish, V. C. W. (Derbysh.	Lawson, Hn. H L W (Mile End)	Strutt, Hn. Charles Hedley
Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor	Lee, A. H. (Hants, Fareham)	Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester)
Chamberlain, Rt Hn J A (Worc.)	Legge, Col. Hn. Heneage	Tomlinson, Sir Wm. Edw. M.
Channing, Francis Allston	Leveson-Gower, Frederick N. S.	Tuff, Charles
Chapman, Edward	Lockwood, Lieut.-Col. A. R.	Tuke, Sir John Batty
Clive, Captain Percy A.	Long, Rt Hn Walter(Bristol, S.)	Walker, Col William Hall
Coates, Edward Feetham	Lucas, Col. Francis (Lowestoft	Walrond, Rt Hn Sir Wm. H.
Cochrane, Hn. Thos. H. A. E.	Lucas, Reginald J (Portsmouth)	Warde, Colonel C. E.
Compton, Lord Alwyne	Lyttelton, Rt. Hn. Alfred	Whitmore, Chas. Algernon
Corbett, T. L. (Down, North)	M'Killop, James (Stirlingshire)	Williams, Colonel R. (Dorset)
Davenport, Wm. Bromley	Majendie, James A. H.	Wilson, A. Stanley (York, E. R.
Dickson, Charles Scott	Marks, Harry Hananel
Doughty, Sir George	Milvain, Thomas	TELLERS FOR THE AYES—Sir Alexander Acland-Hood and Viscount Valentia.
Douglas, Rt. Hn. A. Akers-	Moon, Edward Robert Pacy
Fellowes, Rt Hn Ailwyn Edward	Morgan, D. J. (Walthamstow)
Fielden, Edward Broeklehurst	Morpeth, Viscount

NOES.
Ainsworth, John Stirling	Duffy, William J.	Mitchell, Edw (Fermanagh, N.)
Barran, Rowland Hirst	Ellice, Capt E C (SAndrw'sB'ghs	Moss, Samuel
Barry, E. (Cork, S.	Evans, Samuel T. (Glamorgan	Muldoon, John
Boland, John	Farrell, James Patrick	Murphy, John
Brigg, John	Flavin, Michael Joseph	Nannetti, Joseph P.
Bright, Allan Heywood	Gladstone, Rt. Hn. Herb. John	Nolan, Joseph (Louth, South)
Brown, George M. (Edinburgh)	Griffith, Ellis J.	O'Brien, K. (Tipperary, Mid.)
Caldwell, James	Hammond, John	O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny)
Causton, Richard Knight	Harcourt, Lewis	O'Connor, John (Kildare, N.)
Cheetham, John Frederick	Hardie, J Keir (Merthyr Tydvil	O'Dowd, John
Churchill, Winston Spencer	Helme, Norval Watson	0'Kelly, Conor (Mayo, N.)
Cogan, Denis J;	Jones, Leif (Appleby)	O'Malley, William
Condon, Thomas Joseph	Jordan, Jeremiah	O'Mara, James
Crean, Eugene	Kennedy, Vincent P (Cavan. W	Pease, J. A. (Saffron Walden)
Cremer, William Randal	Kilbride, Denis	Power, Patrick Joseph
Cullinan, J.	Lawson, Sir Wilfrid (Cornwall)	Priestley, Arthur
Dalziel, James Henry	MacVeagh, Jeremiah	Rea, Russell
Devlin, Chas. Ramsay (Galway	M'Arthur, William (Cornwall)	Reddy, M.
Devlin, Joseph (Kilkenny, N.)	M'Killop, W. (Sligo, North)	Roche, John (Galway, East)
Doogan, P. C.	Markham, Arthur Basil	Russell, T. W

Samuel, S. M. (Whitechapel)	White, Luke (York, E. R.)	TELLERS FOR THE NOES—Mr. M'Crae and Mr. Higham.
Seely, Maj J. E. B. (Isleof Wigbt	Whitley, J. H. Halifax)
Soares, Ernest J.	Williams, Osmond (Merioneth)
Sullivan, Donal	Wills, Arthur Walters (N Dorset
Taylor, Theodore C. (Radcliffe)	Wilson, F. W. (Norfolk, Mid.)

Question put accordingly "That the Clause stand part of the Bill.

The Committee divided:—Ayes, 115; 'Noes, 70. (Division List No. 237.)

Hardie, J Keir (Merthyr Tydvil)	Muldoon, John	Reddy, M.
Helme, Norval Watson	Murphy, John	Boche, John (Galway, East)
Higham, John Sharp	Nannetti, Joseph P.	Russell, T. W.
Jones, Leif (Appleby)	Nolan, Joseph (Louth, South)	Seely, Maj J E B (Isle of Wight)
Jordan, Jeremiah	O'Brien, K. (Tipperary Mid.)	Sullivan, Donal
Kennedy, Vincent P (Cavan, W	O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny)	Taylor, Theodore C. (Radcliffe)
Kilbride, Denis	O'Connor, John (Kildare, N.	White, Luke (York, E. R.)
Lawson, Sir Wilfrid (Cornwall)	O'Dowd, John	Whitley, J. H. (Halifax)
MacVeagh, Jeremiah	O'Kelly, Conor (Mayo, N.)	Williams, Osmond (Merioneth
M'Arthur, William (Cornwall)	O'Malley, William	Wilson, Fred W. (Norfolk, Mid.
M'Crae, George	O'Mara, James
M'Killop, W. (Sligo, North)	Pease, J, A. (Saffron Walden)	TELLERS FOR THE NOES—Mr. Soares and Mr. Wills.
Markham, Arthur Basil	Power, Patrick Joseph
Mitchell, Edw. (Fermanagh, N	Priestley, Arthur
Moss, Samuel	Rea, Russell

THE CHAIRMAN

The Question is that I report this Bill without Amendment to the House.

Question proposed, "That the Chairman do report the Bill, without Amendment, to the House."

MAJOR SEELY

said he had given notice to move a new clause, and perhaps, if there was any question as to whether it was in order, he might be permitted to explain its purpose.

THE CHAIRMAN

said he did not think he could allow the hon. Member to make a speech on a new clause which he could not put to the House. He ruled the clause out of order, because he considered it a frivolous Amendment. It was a definition of the word "person," and stated "no one shall be deemed to be a person within the meaning of this Act unless he be a British subject." That struck him as being put in a spirit of irony. Moreover, it was clearly not a new clause, but ought to come as an addendum to Clause 2.

MR. SAMUEL EVANS,

on a point of order, referred to the procedure laid down by the rules of the House with reference to new clauses.

THE CHAIRMAN

said that that procedure referred to Amendments that were in order, but he, having used his judgment to the best of his ability, had ruled the Amendment of the hon. Member for the Isle of Wight to be out of order.

MR. CHURCHILL

understood the ruling of the Chair to refer only to the particular clause in question, and not in any way to impugn the right of Members to move new clauses to Consolidated Fund Bills.

THE CHAIRMAN

If the clauses are in order, of course they may be moved,

MR. CHURCHILL

I mean that your ruling is of a particular and not of a general character.

THE CHAIRMAN

My ruling is directed to the Question before me and nothing else. It is a particular and not a general ruling.

MAJOR SEELY

asked on what grounds, a Motion to make the word "person" apply to British subjects could be ruled out of order as frivolous.

THE CHAIRMAN

said he held it to be moved in a spirit of mockery, but he had also said that even if that were not so it ought to come as an Amendment to Clause 2.

MR. CALDWELL

pointed out that a definition appropriately came as a new clause, a ad in any case the matter could not have been dealt with on Clause 2 because that clause was closured.

THE CHAIRMAN

I will put the Question to the House. There must be an end to points of order at some time. The Question is that I report this Bill without Amendment to the House.

MR. CHURCHILL,

on a point of order, said the Chairman had now given two reasons for ruling the Amendment out of order, viz., that it was frivolous, and that it was not moved in the proper place. He submitted that those two reasons could not be allowed to go together.

THE CHAIRMAN

Points of order must always be raised before the Question Is put the second time.

MR. CHURCHILL

submitted, with great respect, that he did raise the point before the Question was put a second time.

THE CHAIRMAN

Then I did not hear it.

AYES.
Anson, Sir William Reynell	Balfour, Rt. Hn A. J. (Manch'r)	Bentinck, Lord Henry C.
Arkwright, John Stanhope	Balfour, Capt. C. B. (Hornsey)	Bhownaggree, Sir M. M.
Arnold-Forster, Rt Hn HughO.	Balfour, Rt Hn Gerald W (Leeds	Bignold, Sir Arthur
Arrol, Sir William	Banbury, Sir Frederick George	Bingham, Lord
Atkinson, Rt. Hon. John	Banner, John S. Harmood-	Blundell, Colonel Henry
Balcarres, Lord	Bathurst, Hn. Allen Benjamin	Bond, Edward

MR. CHURCHILL

That was because of the uproar on the other side.

THE CHAIRMAN

I am sorry if there has been any misapprehension. I am only too glad to answer points of order. I am the servant of the Committee, bat questions of order have never been raised after the Question has been put the second time.

MR. CHURCHILL

Then do I understand that you will not rule on my point of order?

THE CHAIRMAN

I do not like to set the precedent of allowing points of order to be raised after the Question has been put the second time.

MR. SOARES

remarked that or the night when hon. Members from Ireland had difficulties with the Speaker at least three points of order were raised after the Question had been put a second time.

MR. JOSEPH DEVLIN (Kilkenny, N.)

Might I suggest that you should send for the police?

The CHAIRMAN

Will hon. Members kindly proceed to the lobbies?

Question put,

The Committee divided: Ayes, 113; Noes, 70. (Division List No. 238.)

Boscawen, Arthur Griffith	Hare, Thomas Leigh	Pierpoint, Robert
Brassey, Albert	Heath, Sir Jas. (Staffords. N. W	Platt-Higgins, Frederick
Brodrick, Rt. Hn. St. John	Hope, J F (Sheffield, Brightside	Pretyman, Ernest George
Brotherton, Edward Allen	Hozier, Hon. James Henry Cecil	Pryce-Jones, Lt.-Col. Edward
Campbell, J H M (Dublin Univ.)	Hunt, Rowland	Purvis, Robert
Carson, Rt. Hn. Sir Edw. H.	Jeffreys, Rt. Hn. Arthur Fred	Randles, John S.
Cavendish, V. C. W. (Derbysh.	Kenyon-Slaney, Rt. Hn. Col W	Reid, James (Greenock)
Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor)	Keswick, William	Ridley, S. Forde
Chamberlain, Rt Hn J. A. (Worc	Knowles, Sir Lees	Robertson, Herb. (Hackney)
Chapman, Edward	Law, Andrew Bonar (Glasgow	Royds, Clement Molyneux
Clive, Captain Percy A.	Lawrence, Sir J. (Monm'th)	Rutherford, John (Lancashire
Coates, Edward Feetham	Lawson, Hn. H. L. W (Mile End	Rutherford, W. W. (Liverpool)
Cochrane, Hn. Thos. H A. E.	Lee, A. H (Hants, Fareham)	Scott, Sir S. (Marylebone, W. >
Compton, Lord Alwyne	Legge, Col. Hn. Heneage	Seely, Chas. Hilton (Lincoln)
Corbett, T. L. (Down, North)	Leveson-Gower, Frederick N. S	Smith, Abel H. (Hertford, East
Davenport, William Bromley	Lockwood, Lieut.-Col. A. R.	Stanley, Hn. Arthur (Ormskirk
Dickson, Charles Scott	Long, Rt. Hn. Walter (Bristol. S	Stanley, Rt. Hn. Lord (Lanes.)
Doughty, Sir George	Lucas, Col Francis (Lowestoft)	Stirling-Maxwell, Sir John M.
Douglas, Rt. Hn. A. Akers-	Lucas, Reginald J (Portsmouth	Strutt, Hn. Charles Hedley
Fellowes, Rt Hn Ailwyn Edward	Lyttelton, Rt. Hn. Alfred	Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester)
Fielden, Edward Brocklehurst	M'Killop, James (Stirlingshire)	Tomlinson, Sir Wm. Edw. M.
Finch, Rt. Hn. George H.	Majendie, James A. H	Tuff, Charles
Finlay, Sir R B (Inv'rn'ss B'ghs)	Marks, Harry. Hananel	Tuke, Sir John Batty
Fisher, William Hayes	Milvain, Thomas	Walker, Col. William Hall
Fitzroy, Hn. Edward Algernon	Moon, Edward Robert Pacy	Walrond, Rt Hn. Sir Wm. H.
Forster, Henry William	Morgan, D. J. (Walthamstow)	Warde, Colonel C. E.
Galloway, William Johnson	Morpeth, Viscount	Whitmore, Charles Algernon
Gordon, J. (Londonderry, S.)	Morrell, George Herbert	Williams, Colonel R. (Dorset)
Gordon, Maj Evans (T'rH'mlets	Morrison, James Archibald	Wilson, A. Stanley (York, E. R.
Gray, Ernest (West Ham)	Mount, William Arthur
Hambro, Charles Eric	Murray, Chas. J. (Coventry)	TELLERS FOR THE AYES—Sir Alexander Acland-Hood and Viscount Valentia.
Hamilton, Marq of (L'nd'nderry	Pease, Herb. Pike (Darlington)
Hardy, L. (Kent, Ashford)	Percy, Earl

NOES.
Ainsworth, John Stirling	Gladstone, Rt Hn Herbert John	O'Dowd, John
Barry, E. (Cork, S.)	Griffith, Ellis J.	O'Kelly, Conor (Mayo, N.)
Boland, John	Hammond, John	O'Malley, William
Brigg, John	Harcourt, Lewis	O'Mara, James
Bright, Allan Heywood	Hardie, J. Keir (Merthyr Tydvil	Pease, J. A. (Saffron Walden)
Brown, George M (Edinburgh)	Helme, Norval Watson	Power, Patrick Joseph
Caldwell, James	Higham, John Sharp	Priestley, Arthur
Causton, Richard Knight	Jones, Leif (Appleby)	Rea, Russell
Channing, Francis Allston	Jordan, Jeremiah	Reddy, M.
Cheetham, John Frederick	Kennedy, Vincent P (Cavan, W	Roche, John (Galway, East)
Churchill, Winston Spencer	Kilbride, Denis	Russell, T. W.
Cogan, Denis J.	Lawson, Sir Wilfrid (Cornwall)	Samuel, S. M. (Whitechapel)
Condon, Thomas Joseph	MacVeagh, Jeremiah	Seely, Maj. J E B (Isle of Wight)
Crean, Eugene	M'Arthur, William (Cornwall)	Soares, Ernest J.
Cremer, William Randal	M'Crae, George	Sullivan, Donal
Cullinan, J.	M'Killop, W. (Sligo, North)	Taylor, Theodore C. (Radcliffe)
Dalziel, James Henry	Mitchell, Edw. (Fermanagh, N	White, Luke (York, E. R.)
Devlin, Chas. Ramsay (Galway	Moss, Samuel	Whitley, J. H (Halifax)
Devlin, Joseph (Kilkenny, N.)	Muldoon, John	Williams, Osmond (Merioneth)
Doogan, P. C.	Murphy, John	Wilson, Fred. W. (Norfolk, Mid
Duffy, William J.	Nannetti, Joseph P.
Ellice, Capt E C (SAndrw's B'ghs	Nolan, Joseph (Louth South)	TELLERS FOR THE NOES—Mr.Barran and Mr. Wills.
Evans, Samuel T. (Glamorgan)	O'Brien, K. (Tipperary, Mid.)
Farrell, James Patrick	O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny)
Flavin, Michael Joseph	O'Connor, John (Kildare, N.)

Bill to be read the third time this day.

And, it being after One of the clock, Mr. Speaker adjourned the House with-

out Question put, pursuant to the Standing Order.

Adjourned at twenty-five minute after Three o'clock a.m.