HC Deb 27 February 1905 vol 141 cc1312-4
DR. MACNAMARA (Camberwell, N.)

I beg to ask the First Lord of the Treasury whether he can now give the House an assurance that an opportunity will be afforded it of discussing the proposals for conferring local self-government upon the Transvaal and Orange River Colonies before those proposal become operative.

THE PRIME MINISTER AND FIRST LORD or THE TREASURY (Mr. A. J. BALFOUR, Manchester, E.)

The House will most undoubtedly have an opportunity of discussing the question of the Constitution of the Transvaal before that Constitution becomes operative; but I do not think they ought to have an opportunity, and it is not in accordance with precedent that they should have an opportunity, of discussing the Letters Patent until the Letters Patent are issued. The process is this. Letters Patent will be issued, and they will contain among other things the appointment of a Royal Commission to deal with questions of details—very important details, but still details—of the scheme in South Africa, and the scheme cannot become in the full sense operative, the Transvaal cannot enjoy the constitutional powers given to it, until an Order in Council is passed by which the recommendations of the Commission are assented to or varied, as the case may be. As soon as the Letters Patent are issued they will be laid on the Table of the House with Papers; and I shall take the first convenient opportunity—I canot say what the necessities of Supply may be, but subject to the necessities of Supply—I shall take the first convenient opportunity of putting the Colonial Secretary's Vote down as first Order on Wednesday.

SIR H. CAMPBELL-BANNERMAN (Stirling Burghs)

Will the Letters Patent contain the general scheme of the new Government?

MR. A. J. BALFOUR

Yes, the broad principles on which it is based.

DR. MACNAMARA

Will the House have an opportunity of determining whether procedure by Letters Patent is the best means of procedure?

MR. A. J. BALFOUR

No, Sir, that rests with the Executive Government.

MR. BRYCE (Aberdeen, S.)

Will the right hon. Gentleman tell us why he prefers the method of dealing by Letters Patent rather than the method of dealing by legislation, which has frequently been employed? There are many instances in which the House has had opportunities given to it of discussing the matter before it takes shape.

MR. A. J. BALFOUR

The most recent precedents are those which the Government propose to follow in this instance. There are precedents, as the right hon. Gentleman truly observes, in a different sense, the most recent, I believe, being more than half a century old.

MR. SWIFT MACNEILL

There was the Australian Commonwealth Bill in 1901.

MR, A. J. BALFOUR

That is a different matter. But, in any case, I think the procedure which we propose to adopt is strictly in accordance with precedent, and is the most convenient. I am sure that if the right hon. Gentleman will devote his able and ingenious mind to thinking why it is the most convenient the answer will readily occur to him.

MR. SYDNEY BUXTON (Tower Hamlets, Poplar)

On behalf of the hon. Member for the Cleveland Division of Yorkshire, I beg to ask the First Lord of the Treasury whether, seeing that representative institutions in Canada, New South Wales, South Australia, Victoria, Western Australia, and Tasmania were established by the authority of Acts of Parliament of the years 1791, 1842, and 1850, he will, by adopting the same process in the establishment of representative institutions in the Transvaal, enable Parliament to exercise the same authority.

MR. A. J. BALFOUR

I have answered this Question.

DR. MACNAMARA

Will the right hon. Gentleman lay Papers showing cases in which these grants have been made by statutory enactment.

MR. A. J. BALFOUR

I do not think it worth while laying Papers, but if a Question is put down the right hon. Gentleman the Colonial Secretary will give the information asked for.