HC Deb 08 August 1905 vol 151 cc729-39

Considered in Committee.

(In the Committee.)

[Mr. HARDY (Kent, Ashford) in the Chair.]

Clauses 1 and 2 agreed to.

Clause 3:—

MR. BRIGHT (Shropshire, Oswestry)

in moving to substitute "12 for 20" in line 14, said he was proposing the Amendment in consequence of a reply he had received from the Secretary of State for India. That reply, for the greater part, was very clear, but it omitted to say how much money per annum was required for capital expenditure on new Government railway works, so that the right hon. Gentleman was really asking for a blank cheque which might run over a very long period. About £10,000,000 was to be spent on the purchase of the Bombay and Baroda Railway, but he desired to know what the balance of £8,000,000 or £10,000,000 was for. From the statement of the right hon. Gentleman it was not clear how much of the £8,000,000 annual capital expenditure on State and guaranteed railways was to be paid by the State and how much by the companies themselves. The object of the Amendment was to ascertain how much per annum the State expected to expend on new railway construction, and to prevent the loss of Parliamentary control over large expenditure for any considerable length of time. For sever of years the capital expenditure had apparently averaged about £1,500,000, so that the amount asked for in the Bill would enable the right hon. Gentleman to go on for six or seven years without coming to Parliament. He begged to move.

Amendment proposed— In page 1, line 14, to leave out the word 'twenty,' and insert the word 'twelve'."—(Mr. Bright.) Question proposed, "That the word 'twenty' stand part of the clause."


said that the general sense of the House was in favour of proceeding with the construction of new railways in India. More than £10,000,000 was needed for the purchase of the Bombay and Baroda Railway, which the State now had tin opportunity of carrying out with, considerable advantage to itself, leaving less than half the sum provided for in the Bill for expenditure on other Indian railways. Even if the rate of progress were limited to the 1,000 miles per annum, which the Indian Government had made for several years past, the amount of capital expenditure provided for would not be sufficient, and the House had practically decided that the rata of progress should be increased. He believed the hon. Member was at one with the Government and the House in desiring that the rate of progress should be not only maintained but increased, but if the sum named in the Bill were decreased to £12,000,000 the Indian cultivator would be debarred from obtaining the advantages of improved railway communication which he so much required. The money now asked for would carry the Government on for a couple of years, or perhaps a little longer.

MR. MCKENNA (Monmouthshire, N.)

said the point they wished to emphasise was that the right hon. Gentleman was justified in taking the money for this year, but not beyond. The cost had been put down at £5,000 a mile, but anybody familiar with Indian railways knew that they did not cost anything like that sum per mile. He also objected to the power given under the Bill to raise this money in cash. The whole of the £20,000,000 might be raised in this country in one year, and in the present unsatisfactory state of the money market he did not think that was at all advisable. The probability was that the right hon. Gentleman would not require this money at al. Clause 4 provided that the power given to the Secretary of State should be deemed to include power to create stock or securities in discharge of any obligations mentioned in the Act. That meant, supposing there was a railway already in existence of which the stock or bonds were valued at £10,000,000,that the right hon. Gentleman would then only need to issue stock or bonds to an equivalent amount. The right hon. Gentleman could raise £10,000,000 simply by transferring from one stock to another, and he ought to be content with the power to raise not more than £10,000,000 in cash at the outside. He did not think that the Committee would be wise in giving the Secretary of State any such power. He had reminded the right hon. Gentleman on a previous occasion that in the past it had been the custom to raise half of this money in India. Why did the right hon. Gentleman now propose to saddle the British money market with this large sum when it was not capable of providing it?

MR. LLOYD-GEORGE (Carnarvon Boroughs)

said that nobody in the House of Commons objected to spending money in India upon the development of its resources. The right hon. Gentleman talked of the Indian cultivator, and said this money was intended to assist him, and in another part of his speech he indicated that these railways were built out of the

savings effected upon current expenditure. That being so, he did not think this was the right time to borrow large sums. It was suggested that this large sum of money should be borrowed when the credit of this country was much lower than it had been for a considerable number of years. The right hon. Gentleman had himself shown that this money was not actually wanted for another two years. Why should the Indian taxpayer be burdened with this loan if the whole of the money was not required for another two years? Perhaps in two years time they might be able to obtain money at a cheaper rate. He did not think there was any other place in the world where taxation hit the poor cultivator so heavily as in India, because it affected the necessities of life. They had had experiences of this kind before in regard to the proposals of the Government. The right hon. Gentleman now declared that this Bill was absolutely necessary in order to develop the resources if the country, and credulous hon. Members opposite would accept anything that a Minister told them. [MINISTERIAL cries of "Oh, oh!"] It was quite true, because hon. Members opposite had given their sanction to matters in the division lobby even when their votes were quite contradictory. He thought the hon. Member for Oswestry had made it quite clear (hat the money was not required. They were asked to accept this on trust from the author of the abandoned Army schemes—the Gentleman who proposed scheme after scheme and piled up the expenses of the country—schemes which even the Government themselves had had to abandon. Who knew but that these railway schemes might be just as mythical as the six Army Corps they had some time ago? He submitted that the Committee ought not to accept this simply because the right hon. Gentleman said it was necessary to the development of the resources of the country.

Question put.

The Committee divided:—Ayes, 171; Noes, 142. (Division List No. 360.)

Acland-Hood,Capt. Sir Alex. F. Bentinck, Lord Henry C. Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor)
Agg-Gardner, James Tynte Bill, Charles Chamberlain,Rt Hn.J.A(Wore.
Agnew, Sir Andrew Noel Blundell, Colonel Henry Chamberlayne, T.(S'thampton)
Allhusen, AugustusHenryEden Bond, Edward Channing, Francis Allston
Anson, Sir William Reynell Boscawen, Arthur Griffith- Chapman, Edward
Arkwright, John Stanhope Brassey, Albert Clare, Octavius Leigh
Arnold-Forster, Rt. Hn. HughO. Brodrick, Rt. Hon. St. John Clive, Captain Percy A.
Arrol, Sir William Brotherton, Edward Allen Cochraue, Hon. Tho. H. A. E.
Atkinson, Rt. Hon. John Bull, William James Collings, Rt. Hon. Jesse
Balcarres, Lord Burdett-Coutts, W. Colomb,Rt.Hon.Sir John C. R.
Balfour,RtHn.GeraldW.(Leeds Butcher, John George Compton, Lord Alwyne
Balfour, Kenneth R.(Christch.) Campbell, J.H.M.(DublinUniv.) Corbett, T. L. (Down, North)
Banbury, Sir Frederick George Carson, Rt. Hon. Sir Edw. H. Craig, CharlesCurtis(Antrim,S.)
Banner, John S. Harmood- Cautley, Henry Strother Crossley, Rt. Hon. Sir Savile
Bathurst, Hon. Allen Benjamin Cavendish,V.C.W. (Derbyshire Davenport, W. Bromley-
Davies,SirHoratioD.(Chatham, Kimber, Sir Henry Purvis, Robert
Dewar,SirT.R.(Tower Hamlets) Knowles, Sir Lees Pym, C. Guy
Dickson, Charles Scott Laurie, Lieut.-General Randies, John S.
Dickson-Poynder, Sir John P. Law, Andrew Bonar (Glasgow) Rankin, Sir James
Disraeli, Coningsby Ralph Lawson,Hn.H.L.W. (Mile End) Reid, James (Greenock)
Dixon-Hartland, Sir Fred Dixon Lee, ArthurH.(Hants.,Fareham Remnant, James Farquharson
Doughty, Sir George Lees, Sir Elliott (Birkenhead) Renwiek George
Douglas, Rt. Hon. A. Akers- Legge, Col. Hon. Heneage Ridley, S. Forde
Doxford, Sir.William Theodore Lockwood, Lieut.-Col. A. R. Robertson, Herbert (Hackney)
Duke, Henry Edward Long, Col. Charles W. ((Evesham Rolleston, Sir John F. L.
Dyke,Rt.Hon.SirWilliam Hart Long,Rt. Hn. Walter(Bristol,S.) Round, Rt. Hon. James
Faber, George Denison (York) Loyd, Archie Kirkman Rutherford, John (Lancashire)
Fellowes,Rt.Hn.AilwynEdward Lowe, Francis William Rutherford, W. W. (Liverpool)
Fergusson,Rt.Hn.SirJ.(Manc'r) Lucas, Reginald J.(Portsmouth Sackville, Col. S. G. Stopford-
Finch, Rt. Hon. George H. Macdona, John Cumming Sadler, Col. Sir Samuel Alex.
Finlay,Rt.Hn.SirR.B(Inv'rn'ss MacIver, David (Liverpool) Sandys, Lieut.-Col. Thos. Myles
Fitzroy, Hon. EdwardAlgernon Maconochie, A. W. Sloan, Thomas Henry
Flannery, Sir Fortescue M'Arthur, Charles (Liverpool) Smith, Hon. W. F. D. (Strand)
Flower, Sir Ernest M'Killop, James (Stirlingshire) Stanley, Rt. Hon. Lord(Lancs.)
Forster, Henry William Martin, Richard Biddulph Stone, Sir Benjamin
Gardner, Ernest Massey-Mainwaring, Hn. W. F. Stroyan, John
Gibbs, Hon. A. G. H. Maxwell,W.J.H (Dumfrieshire Strutt, Hon. Charles Hedley
Gore, Hon. S. F. Ormsby- Melville, Beresford Valentine Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester)
Goschen, Hon. George Joachim Middlemore, John Throgmorton Thornton, Percy M.
Goulding, Edward Alfred Milvain, Thomas Tollemache, Henry James
Green, Henry D. (Shrewsbury) Molesworth, Sir Lewis Tomlinson, Sir Win. Edw. M.
Grenfell, William Henry Moon, Edward Robert Pacy Tuff, Charles
Gretton, John Morgan, DavidJ.(Walthamstow Tumour, Viscount
Groves, James Grimble Morpeth, Viscount Valentia, Viscount
Hamilton,Marq.of (L'nd'nderr, Morrell, George Herbert Vincent, Sir Edgar (Exeter)
Hardy, Laurence(Kent,Ashford Morton, Arthur H. Aylmer Walker, Col. William Hall
Heath,SirJames(Staffords.NW) Mount, William Arthur Walrond,Rt.Hon.SirWilliamH.
Helder, Sir Augustus Murray, Col. Wyndham (Bath) Warde, Colonel C. E.
Hermon-Hodge, Sir Robert T. Myers, William Henry Welby,Lt.-Col.A.C.E(Taunton)
Hill, Henry Staveley Nicholson, William Graham Whiteley,H.(Ashton und.Lyne)
Hope, J.F. (Sheffield, Brightside) O'Neill, Hon. Robert Torrens Whitmore, Charles Algernon
Hornby, Sir William Henry Parkes, Ebenezer Wortley, Rt. Hon. C. B. Stuart-
Horner, Frederick William Peel.Hn.Wm.Robert Wellesley Wrightson, Sir Thomas
Howard, Jn.(Kent,Faversham) Percy, Earl Wylie, Alexander
Hozier,Hon.James Henry Cecil Pierpoint, Robert Wyndham-Quin, Col. W. H.
Hudson, George Bickersteth Pilkington, Colonel Richard Yerburgh, Robert Armstrong
Jeffreys, Rt. Hon. Arthur Fred. Platt-Higgins, Frederick
Jessel, Captain HerbertMerton Plummer, Sir Walter R. TELLERS FOR THE AYES—Mr.
Kennaway,Rt.Hon.Sir John H. Powell, Sir Francis Sharp John Gordon and Mr. Lons-
Kenyon, Hon.Geo. T.(Denbigh) Pretyman, Ernest George dale.
Keswick, William Pryce-Jones, Lt.-Col. Edward
Atherley-Jones, L. Evans, Samuel T. (Glamorgan) Joicey, Sir James
Baker, Joseph Allen Eve, Harry Trelawney Jones,DavidBrynmor(Swansea
Barran, Rowland Hirst Ffrench, Peter Jones, Leif (Appleby)
Barry, E. (Cork, S.) Findlay,Alexander(Lanark,NE Tones, William(Carnarvonshire)
Benn, John Williams Flavin, Michael Joseph Jordan, Jeremiah
Bright, Allan Heywood Flynn, James Christopher Kitson, Sir James
Broadhurst, Henry Fuller, J. M. F. Lambert, George
Brown, George M. (Edinburgh) Gladstone,Rt.Hn.Herbert John Lamont, Norman
Burns, John Grant, Corrie Law, Hugh Alex. (Donegal, W.)
Caldwell, James Griffith, Ellis J. Lawson, Sir Wilfrid (Cornwall)
Campbell, John (Armagh, S.) Guest, Hon. Ivor Churchill Leese Sir JosephF.(Accrington)
Causton, Richard Knight Haldane, Rt. Hon. Richard B. Lloyd-George, David
Clancy, John Joseph Hammond, John Lough, Thomas
Condon, Thomas Joseph Hardie,J.Keir(MerthyrTydvil) Lundon, W.
Crean, Eugene Harrington, Timothy Lyell, Charles Henry
Cremer, William Randal Harwood, George MacNeill, John Gordon Swift
Crooks, William Hatch, Ernest Frederick Geo. MacVeagh, Jeremiah
Cullinan, J. Hayden, John Patrick M'Arthur, William (Cornwall)
Delany, William Hayter, Rt. Hon. Sir Arthur D. M'Crae, George
Dobbie, Joseph Healy, Timothy Michael M'Kenna, Reginald
Doogan, P. C. Henderson, Arthur (Durham) Murnaghan, George
Edwards, Frank Higham, John Sharp Murphy, John
Ellis, John Edward (Notts.) Hutchinson, Dr. Charles Fredk. Nannetti, Joseph P.
Evans,SirFrancisH.(Maidstone) Isaacs, Rufus Daniel Nolan,Col.John P.(Galway, N.)
Nolan, Joseph (Louth, South) Robson, William Snowdon Ure, Alexander
Norton, Capt. Cecil William Rose, Charles Day Villiers, Ernest Amherst
O'Brien, Kendal(Tipperary, Mid Runciman, Walter Walton, Joseph (Barnsley)
O'Connor,James (Wicklow,VY.) Samuel, Herbert L. (Cleveland) Warner, Thomas Courtenay T.
O'Donnell, T. (Kerry, W.) Samuel, S. M. (Whitechapel) Weir, James Galloway
O'Kelly,James (RoscommonN. Seely,Maj.J.E.B.(Isle of Wight) Whiteley, George (York, W.R.)
Parrott, William Shipman, Dr. John G. Whitley, J. H. (Halifax)
Pease, J. A. (Saffron Walden) Sinclair, John (Forfarshire) Whittaker, Thomas Palmer
Power, Patrick Joseph Slack, John Bamford Wilson, Henry J. (York, W.R.)
Rea, Russell Sullivan, Donal
Redmond, John E. (Waterford) Thomas, Abel (Carmarthen,E.) TELLERS FOR THE NOBS—Sir
Rickett, J. Compton Thomas,David Alfred (Merthyr Thomas Esmonde and Mr.
Roberts, John Bryn (Eifion) Thompson, Dr. EC(Monagh'n, N. Patrick O'Brien.
Roberts, John H. (Denbighs.) Tully, Jasper
Agg-Gardner, James Tynte Allhusen, Augustus Henry Eden Arkwright, John Stanhope
Agnew, Sir Andrew Noel Anson, Sir William Reynell Arnold-Forster,Rt,Hn.Hugh O.
Arrol, Sir William Gordon, J.(Londonderry,South Myers, William Henry
Atkinson, Rt. Hon. John Goschen, Hn. George Joachim Nicholson, William Graham
Balcarres, Lord Goulding, Edward Alfred O'Neill, Hon. Robert Torrens
Balfour,Rt.Hn. J.A. (Manch'r.) Greene, H. D. (Shrewsbury) Parkes, Ebenezer
Balfour, Rt. Hn. G. W. (Leeds.) Grenfell, William Henry Peel, Hn. Wm. Robt. Wellesley
Balfour, Kenneth R. (Christch. Gretton, John Percy, Earl
Banbury, Sir Frederick George Groves, James Grimble Pierpoint, Robert
Banner, John S. Harmood- Hamilton,Marq.of (L'donderry Pilkington, Colonel Richard
Bathurst, Hn. Allen Benjamin Hardy, L. (Kent, Ashford) Platt-Higgins, Frederick
Bentinek, Lord Henry C. Heath, Sir J. (Staffords. N.W.) Plummer, Sir Walter R.
Bill, Charles Helder, Sir Augustus Powell, Sir Francis Sharp
Blundell, Colonel Henry Hill, Henry Staveley Pretyman, Ernest George
Bond, Edward Hope,J.F.(Sheffield, Brightside Pryce-Jones, Lt.-Col. Edward
Boscawen, Arthur Griffith- Hornby, Sir William Henry Purvis, Robert
Brassey, Albert Howard, J. (Kent, Faversham) Pym, C. Guy
Brodrick, Rt. Hon. St. John Hozier, Hn. James Henry Cecil Randles, John S.
Brotherton, Edward Allen Hudson, George Bickersteth Rankin, Sir James
Bull, William James Jeffreys, Rt. Hn. Arthur Fred. Reid, James (Greenock)
Burdett-Coutts, W. Jessel, Captain Herbert Merton Renwick, George
Butcher, John George Kennaway, Rt. Hn. Sir John H Ridley, S. Forde
Campbell,J.H.M.(Dublin Univ. Kenyon, Hn. Geo. T.(Denbigh) Robertson, Herbert (Hackney)
Carson, Rt. Hn. Sir Edw. H. Keswick, William Rolleston, Sir John F. L.
Cautley, Henry Strother Kimber, Sir Henry Round, Rt. Hn. James
Cavendish,V.C.W. (Derbyshire Kitson, Sir James Rutherford, John (Lancashire)
Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor) Knowles, Sir Lees Rutherford, W. W.(Liverpool)
Chamberlain,RtHn.J.A (Wore. Laurie, Lieut.-General Sackville, Col. S. G. Stopford-
Chamberlayne, T. (S'thampton Law, Andrew Bonar (Glasgow) Sadler, Col. Sir Samuel Alex.
Chapman, Edward Lawson, Hn. H. L. W. (MileEnd Sandys, Lt.-Col. Thos. Myles
Clare, Octavius Leigh Lee, A. H. (Hants., Fareham) Scott, Sir S. (Marylebone, W.)
Clive, Captain Percy A. Lees, Sir Elliot (Birkenhead) Smith, A. H. (Hertford, East)
Cochrane, Hn. Thos. H. A. E. Legge, Col. Hon. Heneage Smith, Hon. W. F. D. (Strand)
Colomb, Rt. Hn. Sir John C. R. Lockwood, Lieut.-Col. A. R. Stanley, Hn. Arthur (Ormskirk
Compton, Lord Alwyne Long, Col. Chas. W. (Evesham) Stanley, Rt. Hn. Lord (Lanes.)
Corbett, T. L. (Down, North) Long, Rt. Hn. W. (Bristol, S.) Stroyan, John
Crossley, Rt. Hon. Sir Savile Lonsdale John Brownlee Strutt, Hon. Charles Hedley
Davenport, W. Bromley- Lowe, Francis William Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester)
Davies, Sir H. D. (Chatham) Loyd, Archie Kirkman Tollemache, Henry James
Dewar, Sir T.R.(Tower Hamlets Lucas, Reg. J. (Portsmouth) Tomlinson, Sir Wm. Edw. M.
Dickson, Charles Scott Lyttelton, Rt. Hon. Alfred Tuff, Charles
Disraeli, Coningsby Ralph Macdona, John Cumming Turnour, Viscount
Dixon-Hartland, Sir F. Dixon M'Arthur, Charles (Liverpool) Walker, Col. William Hall
Doughty, Sir George M'Killop, Jas. (Stirlingshire) Walrond, Rt.Hn.SirWilliam H.
Douglas, Rt. Hn. A. Akers- Martin, Richard Biddulph Walton, Joseph (Barnsley)
Doxford, Sir William Theodore Massey-Mainwaring, Hn. W. F. Warde, Colonel C. E.
Duke, Henry Edward Maxwell, WJ.H.(Dumfriesshire Welby Lt.-Col.A.C.E (Taunton
Dyke,Rt.Hn. Sir William Hart Melville, Beresford Valentine Whiteley,H.(Ashton and. Lyne
Fellowes, Rt. Hn. Ailwyn Edw. Middlemore, J. Throgmorton Whitmore Charles Algernon
Finch, Rt. Hon. George H. Milvain, Thomas Wortley, Rt. Hn. C. B. Stuart-
Finlay,RtHnSirR.B.(Inv'rn'ss) Molesworth, Sir Lewis Wrightson, Sir Thomas
Fisher, William Hayes Moon, Edward Robert Pacy Wylie, Alexander
Fitzroy, Hn. Edw. Algernon Morgan, D. J. (Walthamstow) Wyndham-Quin, Col. W. H.
Flannery, Sir Fortescue Morpeth, Viscount Yerburgh, Robert Armstrong
Flower, Sir Ernest Morrell, George Herbert
Forster, Henry William Morton, Arthur H. Aylmer TELLERS FOR THE AYES—Sir
Gardner, Ernest Mount, William Arthur Alexander Acland - Hood
Gibbs, Hon. A. G. H. Murray, Col. Wyndham (Bath) and Viscount Valentia.
Abraham, William (Cork N.E. Cawley, Frederick Edwards, Frank
Ashton, Thomas Gair Channing, Francis Allston Elibank, Master of
Baker, Joseph Allen Clancy, John Joseph Ellis, John Edward (Notts.)
Barran, Rowland Hirst Cogan, Denis J. Esmonde, Sir Thomas
Barry, E. (Cork S.) Condon, Thomas Joseph Evans, Sir F. H. (Maidstone)
Benn, John William Crean, Eugene Evans, Samuel T. (Glamorgan)
Boland, John Cremer, William Randal Eve, Harry Trelawney
Broadhurst, Henry Cullinan, J. Farrell, James Patrick
Brown, G. M. (Edinburgh) Delany, William Ffrench, Peter
Bryce, Rt. Hon. James Devlin, Chas. Ramsay (Galway Findlay,Alexander(Lanark,NE
Burns, John Devlin, Joseph (Kilkenny, N. Flavin, Michael Joseph
Buxton,N.E.(York,NR,Whitby Dobbie, Joseph Flynn, James Christopher
Caldwell, James Donelan, Captain A. Fuller, J. M. F.
Campbell, John (Armagh, S.) Doogan, P. C. Gladstone, Rt. Hn. Herb. John
Causton, Richard Knight Duffy, William J. Grant, Corrie
Griffith, Ellis J. M'Crae, George Robson, William Snowdon
Guest, Hon. Ivor Churchill M'Kenna, Reginald Roche, John (Galway, East)
Hammond, John M'Killop, W. (Siigo, North) Roe, Sir Thomas
Harcourt, Lewis Mooney, John J. Rose, Charles Day
Hardie, J. K. (Merthyr Tydvil) Morgan, J. Lloyd(Carmarthen) Runciman, Walter
Harrington, Timothy Moss, Samuel Samuel, Herb. L. (Cleveland)
Harwood, George Muldoon, John Samuel, S. M. (Whitechapel)
Hatch, Ernest Frederick Geo. Murnaghan, George Seely,Maj.J.E.B.(Isle of Wight
Hayden, John Patrick Murphy, John Sheehy, David
Hayter, Rt. Hn. Sir Arthur D. Nannetti, Joseph P. Shipman, Dr. John G.
Healy, Timothy Michael Nolan, Col. J. P. (Galway, N.) Sinclair, John (Forfarshire)
Henderson, Arthur (Durham) Nolan, Joseph (Louth, South) Slack, John Bamford
Higham, John Sharp Norton, Capt. Cecil William Sullivan, Donal
Hutchinson, Dr. Chas. Fredk. O'Brien, K. (Tipperary, Mid.) Taylor, Theodore C. (Radcliffe)
Isaacs, Rufus Daniel O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny) Thomas, A. (Carmarthen, E.)
Joicey, Sir James O'Connor, Jas. (Wicklow, W.) Thomas, David A. (Merthyr)
Jones, David B. (Swansea) O'Connor, John (Kildare, N.) Thompson,Dr.EC(Monagh'n,N
Jones, Leif (Appleby) O'Donnell, T. (Kerry, W.) Tully, Jasper
Jordan, Jeremiah O'Dowd, John Ure, Alexander
Joyce, Michael O'Kelly, Conor (Mayo, N.) Villiers, Ernest Amherst
Kennedy, V. P. (Cavan, W.) O'Kelly,James(Roscommon,N. Waldron, Laurence Ambrose
Lambert, George O'Malley, William Warner, Thomas Courtenay T.
Lamont, Norman O'Mara, James Weir, James Galloway
Langley, Batty O'Shaughnessy, P. J. White, Patrick (Meath, North)
Lawson, Sir Wilfrid (Cornwall) Pearson, Sir Weetman D. Whiteley, George (York, W.R.)
Leese, Sir J. F. (Accrington) Pease, J. A. (Saffron Walden) Whitley, J. H. (Halifax)
Levy, Maurice Power, Patrick Joseph Whittaker, Thomas Palmer
Lloyd-George, David Rea, Russell Wilson, H. J. (York, W.R.)
Lough, Thomas Reckitt, Harold James
Lundon, W. Reddy, M. TELLERS FOR THE NOES—Mr.
Lyell, Charles Henry Redmond, J. E. (Waterford) Bright and Mr. William
MacNeill, John Gordon Swift Rickett, J. Compton Jones.
MacVeagh, Jeremiah Roberts, John Bryn (Eifion)
M'Arthur, William (Cornwall) Roberts, John H. (Denbighs.)

Main Question put, and agreed to.

Question put, "That the clause stand part of the Bill."

The Committee divided:— Ayes, 166; Noes, 142. (Division List No. 361.)

Agg-Gardner, James Tynte Chapman, Edward Grenfell, William Henry
Agnew, Sir Andrew Noel Clare, Octavius Leigh Gretton, John
Allhusen, Augustus Henry E. Clive, Captain Percy A. Groves, James Grimble
Anson, Sir William Reynell Cochrane, Hon. Thos. H. A. E Hamilton,Marq.of (L'donderry
Arkwright, John Stanhope Colomb,Rt. Hn. Sir John C. R Hardy, L. (Kent, Ashford)
Arnold-Forster,Rt.Hn.HughO. Compton, Lord Alwyne Heath, Sir J. (Staffords., N. W.
Arrol, Sir William Corbett,T. L. (Down, North) Helder, Sir Augustus
Atkinson, Rt. Hon. John Crossley, Rt. Hn. Sir Savile Hill, Henry Staveley
Balcarres, Lord Davenport, W. Bromley Hope,J.F.(Sheffield, Brightside
Balfour,Rt.Hn.A.J.(Manch'r.) Davies, Sir H. D. (Chatham) Hornby, Sir William Henry
Balfour, Rt. Hn. G. W. (Leeds) Dewar,SirT.R. (Tower Hamlets Howard, J. (Kent, Faversham)
Balfour, Kenneth R. (Christch. Dickson, Charles Scott Hozier, Hn. James Henry Cecil
Banbury, Sir Frederick George Disraeli, Coningsby Ralph Hudson, George Bickersteth
Banner, John S. Harmood- Dixon-Hartland, Sir F. Dixon Jeffreys, Rt. Hn. Arthur Fred.
Bathurst, Hn. Allen Benjamin Doughty, Sir George Jessel, Capt. Herbert Merton
Bentinck, Lord Henry C. Douglas, Rt. Hon. A. Akers- Kennaway, Rt. Hn. Sir John H
Bill, Charles Doxford, Sir William Theodore Kenyon, Hn. Geo. T (Denbigh)
Blundell, Colonel Henry Duke, Henry Edward Keswick, William
Bond, Edward Dyke,Rt.Hn. Sir William Hart Kimber, Sir Henry
Boscawen, Arthur Griffith- Fellowes, Rt. Hn. Ailwyn Edw. Knowles, Sir Lees
Brassey, Albert Finch, Rt. Hon. George H. Laurie, Lieut. -Grneral
Brodrick, Rt. Hon. St. John Finlay,RtHnSirR.B (Inv'rn'ss) Law, Andrew Bonar (Glasgow)
Brotherton, Edward Allen Fisher, William Hayes Lawson,Hn. H.L.W. (MileEnd)
Bull, William James Fitzroy, Hn. Edw. Algernon Lee, A. H. (Hants., Fareham)
Burdett-Coutts, W. Flannery, Sir Fortescue Lees, Sir Elliott (Birkenhead),
Butcher, John George Flower, Sir Ernest Legge, Col. Hon. Heneage
Campbell,J.H.M.(Dublin Univ. Forster, Henry William Lockwood, Lieut.-Col. A. R.
Carson, Rt. Hn. Sir Edw. H. Gardner, Ernest Long, Col. Chas. W. (Evesham)
Cautley, Henry Strother Gibbs, Hon. A. G. H. Long, Rt. Hn. W. (Bristol)
Cavendish,V.C.W (Derbyshire) Gordon,J (Londonderry,South) Lonsdale, John Brownlee
Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor) Goschen, Hn. George Joachim Lowe, Francis William
Chamberlain,RtHn.J.A (Wore. Goulding, Edward Alfred Loyd, Archie Kirkman
Chamberlayne, T. (S'thampton Greene, H. D. (Shrewsbury) Lucas, Reg. J. (Portsmouth)
Lyttelton, Rt. Hon. Alfred Pierpoint, Robert Stanley, Hn. Arthur (Ormskirk
Macdona, John Cumming Pilkington, Colonel Richard Stanley, Rt. Hn. Lord (Lanes.)
M'Arthur, Charles (Liverpool) Platt-Higgins, Frederick Stroyan, John
M'Killop, Jas. (Stirlingshire) Pretyman, Ernest George Strutt, Hon. Charles Hedley
Martin, Richard Biddulph Pryce-Jones, Lt.-Col. Edward Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester)
Massey-Mainwaring, Hn. W.F. Purvis, Robert Tollemache, Henry James
Maxwell,W.J.H (Dumfriesshire Pym, C. Guy Tomlinson, Sir Win. Edw. M.
Melville, Beresford Valentine Randles, John S. Tuff, Charles
Middlemore, J. Throgmorton Rankin, Sir James Turnour, Viscount
Milvain, Thomas Reid, James (Greenock) Walker, Col. William Hall
Molesworth, Sir Lewis Remnant, James Farquharson Walrond,Rt.Hn.Sir William H.
Moon, Edward Robert Pacy Renwick, George Warde, Colonel C. E.
Morgan, D. J. (Walthamstow) Ridley, S. Forde Welby,Lt.-Col.A.C.E (Taunton
Morpeth, Viscount Robertson, Herbert (Hackney) Whiteley,H.(Ashton and. Lyne
Morrell, George Herbert Rolleston, Sir John F. L. Wortley, Rt. Hn. C. B. Stuart-
Morton, Arthur H. Aylmer Round, Rt. Hon. James Wrightson, Sir Thomas
Mount, William Arthur Rutherford, John (Lancashire) Wylie, Alexander
Murray, Col. Wyndham (Bath) Rutherford, W. W. (Liverpool) Wyndham-Quin, Col. W. H.
Myers, William Henry Sackville, Col. S. G. Stopford- Yerburgh, Robert Armstrong
Nicholson, William Graham Sadler, Col. Sir Samuel Alex.
O'Neill. Hon. Robert Torrens Sandys, Lt.-Col. Thos. Myles TELLERS FOR THE AYES—Sir
Parkes, Ebenezer Scott, Sir S. (Marylebone, W.) Alexander Acland - Hood
Peel, Hn. Wm. Robt. Wellesley Smith, A. H. (Hertford, East) and Viscount Valentia.
Percy, Earl Smith, Hon. W. F. D. (Strand)
Abraham, William (Cork, N.E. Gladstone, Rt. Hn. Herb. John Murphy, John
Ashton, Thomas Gair Grant, Corrie Nannetti, Joseph P.
Baker, Joseph Allen Griffith, Ellis J. Nolan, Col. J. P. (Galway, N.)
Barran, Rowland Hirst Guest, Hon. Ivor Churchill Nolan, Joseph (Louth, South)
Barry, E. (Cork, S.) Hammond, John Norton, Capt. Cecil William
Benn, John Williams Harcourt, Lewis O'Brien, K. (Tipperary, Mid.)
Boland, John Hardie, J. K. (Morthyr Tydvil) O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny)
Bright, Allan Heywood Harrington, Timothy O'Connor, J. (Wicklow, W.)
Broadhurst, Henry Harwood, George O'Connor, John (Kildare, N.)
Brown,George M.(Edinburgh) Hatch, Ernest Frederick Geo. O'Donnell, T. (Kerry, W.)
Bryce, Rt. Hon. James Hayden, John Patrick O'Dowd, John
Burns, John Healy, Timothy Michael O'Kelly, Conor (Mayo, N[...])
Buxton,N.E.(York,NR Whitby Henderson, Arthur (Durham) O'Kelly, Jas. (Roscommon, N.)
Caldwell, James Higham, John Sharp O'Malley, William
Campbell, John (Armagh, S.) Hutchinson, Dr. Charles Fredk. O'Mara, James
Causton, Richard Knight Isaacs, Rufus Daniel O'Shaughnessy, P. J.
Cawley, Frederick Joicey, Sir James Pease, J. A. (Saffron Walden)
Channing, Francis Allston Jones, D. Brynmor (Swansea) Power, Patrick Joseph
Clancy, John Joseph Jones, Leif (Appleby) Rea, Russell
Cogan, Denis J. Jones, William (Carnarvonsh.) Reckitt, Harold James
Condon, Thomas Joseph Jordan, Jeremiah Reddy, M.
Crean, Eugene Joyce, Michael Redmond, J. E. (Waterford)
Cremer, William Randal Kennedy, V. P. (Cavan, W.) Rickett, J. Compton
Cullinan, J. Kitson, Sir James Roberts, John Bryn (Eifion)
Delany, William Lambert, George Roberts, John H. (Denbighs.)
Devlin, Chas.Ramsay(Galway) Lamont, Norman Roche, John (Galway, East)
Devlin, Joseph (Kilkenny, N.) Langley, Batty Roe, Sir Thomas
Dobbie, Joseph Law, Hugh Alex. (Donegal,W.) Rose, Charles Day
Donelan, Capt. A. Lawson, Sir Wilfrid (Cornwall) Runciman, Walter
Doogan, P. C. Leese, Sir J. F. (Accrington) Samuel,Herb L. (Cleveland)
Duffy, William J. Levy, Maurice Samuel, S. M. (Whitechapel)
Edwards, Frank Lloyd-George, David Seely,Maj.J.E.B.(Isle of Wight
Elibank, Master of Lough, Thomas Sheehy, David
Ellis, John Edward (Notts.) Lundon, W. Shipman, Dr. John G.
Esmonde, Sir Thomas MacNeill, John Gordon Swift Sinclair, John (Forfarshire)
Evans, Sir F. H. (Maidstone) MacVeagh, Jeremiah Slack, John Bamford
Evans, S. T. (Glamorgan) M'Arthur, William (Cornwall) Sullivan, Donal
Eve, Harry Trelawney M'Crae, George Thomas, A. (Carmarthen, E.)
Farrell, James Patrick M'Kenna, Reginald Thomas, David A. (Merthyr)
Ffrench. Peter M'Killop, W. (Sligo, North) Thompson,Dr.EC (Monagh'n,N
Field, William Mooney, John J. Tully, Jasper
Findlay, Alex. (Lanark, N. E.) Morgan,J. Lloyd (Carmarthen) Villiers, Ernest Amherst
Flavin, Michael Joseph Moss, Samuel Waldron, Laurence Ambrose
Flynn, James Christopher Muldoon, John Walton, Joseph (Barnsley)
Fuller, J. M. F. Murnaghan, George Warner, Thomas Courtenay T.
Weir, James Galloway Whitley, J. H. (Halifax) TELLERS FOE THE NOES—MR.
White, Patrick (Meath, North) Whittaker, Thomas Palmer Theodore Taylor and Mr.
Whiteley, George (York, W.R.) Wilson, Henry J. (York, W.R.) Lyell.

Remaining clauses agreed to.

Bill reported, without Amendment; to be read the third time To-morrow.