HC Deb 03 August 1905 vol 151 cc162-75

Order read, for resuming adjourned debate on Amendment proposed [3rd August] on Consideration of Third Resolution, "That a sum, not exceeding £1,319,058, be granted to His Majesty, to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1906, for Expenditure in respect of the following Services included in Class II. of the Estimates for Civil Services."

Which Amendment was— To leave out '£1,319,058,' and insert '£1,318,958.'"—(Sir Charles Dilke.)

Question again proposed, "That '£1,319,058' stand part of the said Resolution."


said he would not have touched on the Japanese agreement but for the fact of the noble Lord having spoken of renewing it. He could not renew the Japanese treaty because it was made under certain conditions which would expire with the termination of the present war. The question before the House therefore was the creation of a new treaty which might have very serious consequences and which therefore was a matter for serious consideration. Although he admitted that this House was not the House to make treaties he claimed its right to discuss this matter—a matter of far greater importance than all the other subjects which the House had discussed to-day, put together—and to advise the Government as to what the real opinion of the country was in regard to it. Unless he was misinformed a new treaty with Japan had been already drawn up, though it was not signed, and it was a matter which would shortly become an historical fact.

Two proposals had been laid down that afternoon with which he thought all would agree. It was said that foreign policy should be kept free from Party politics. He thought in regard to this treaty that no one had said a word to throw cold water upon it. He believed that all cordially approved of the treaty, and it was one of the things for which he was grateful to the Government. But it did not follow that hon. Members should desert their duty. The noble Lord had spoken about the continuity of foreign policy; but he must remember that that principle carried grave consequences with it which made it necessary for hon. Members to speak out now, because once the treaty was signed there was no use in saying anything about it. The gravity of the circumstances would compel them to agree to it. He acknowledged that the last treaty with Japan had been a lucky one, and was popular in this country. The late Marquess of Salisbury once spoke about this country having put our money on the wrong horse; but he thought that in this case we had put our money on the right horse. The country had been very anxious as to our responsibility under that treaty, and had watched with intense interest the progress of events in the Far East. The poet talked of a new planet swimming into our ken. He begged the Government to remember that while they were making the new treaty ostensibly with the same Power with which we made the first treaty, it was really quite a different Power. Japan was not the Power she was when the first treaty was made. Japan was now a first-rate Power, and would have to be treated on different principles, and from a different point of view from the principles and point of view which prevailed when we made the first treaty.

He thought a good many people in the country desired very strongly that in any obligations entered into with Japan in the future the Government should not forget the principles of the present obligations. Those principles were three in number. First, there was the limitation of time. We had not undertaken responsibility indefinitely. It terminated at the end of a period of years. He thought that most important principle should be preserved in any future arrangements; also he thought he was right in saying that there was a definite limitation of responsibility. This was not a defensive and offensive alliance. It was a distinct treaty which could only come into operation under certain circumstances. Our responsibility could only come into play when some other Power intervened in certain circumstances. If no other Power intervened then our responsibility did not come into being. He begged the Government also not to make any treaty with Japan or anyone else in which responsibility was not limited and defined. There should not, moreover, be merely a limitation of time, but also a limitation of geographical area.

Remarks had been made in that debate about the relationship of any such alliance to our Indian Empire. We should be approaching dangerous ground if in making a treaty with anyone we brought them into relationship with our Indian Empire. Anyone who knew India knew how peculiarly sensitive these Eastern people were. At the present moment there was a feeling of excitement all through Asia—a temperament of excitement to be compared with that which they sometimes saw in that House—a touchiness and suspiciousness which might be dangerous unless we acted fairly. Any treaty we made with Japan ought carefully to exclude the possibility or supposition that they could be brought into relationship with our Indian Empire or our position in Asia, He did not want to touch the question of the yellow peril in any way. But it must be remembered that we were dealing with an Eastern people whom we did not understand; an Eastern people flushed with victory; an Eastern people showing powers nobody expected them to show. All the East, from the Caucasus down to the Japanese Sea, was electric with anticipation and hope and unrest. Therefore the greatest possible caution must be taken by us in our relations with the greatest of Eastern Powers. He asked them to act upon the motto expressed by Bismarck, Do ut des. If the English nation entered into serious obligations to Japan it would have a right to expect an adequate return for undertaking those great responsibilities. In making a treaty with the Japanese we were making a treaty with a people who were more or less an enigma to us. They were au enigma more or less to the civilised world. It was almost uncanny. He rejoiced in the qualities they had displayed, but it was not easy to understand their ideals. He had mixed amongst them a great deal. The Russian was easy to understand. There was something of blood relationship between him and ourselves which made him more easy to understand. But the Japanese was an absolute enigma to us, and therefore we should be careful about the bargain we entered into with him. We should take | great care to safeguard our interests, and especially our trade interests, in China. The Government was no doubt awake to that, but in his part of the country people were very anxious that the open door should be kept not merely in name but in reality. It was quite easy to see how one nation controlling another nation might keep the promise to the ear and break it to the heart. It was well known in business circles that while the code of honour of the Japanese in politics was above reproach, their code of honour in business was not so. He did not say which was the beat guide to the morale of the people, but he did not want our Government in the flush of successes to make a treaty which might bring regret to our children and disaster to the Empire of which we were all so proud.

*MR. BRIGHT (Shropshire, Oswestry)

said he wished to ask whether it would be in order at that stage to bring up a subject concerning the Board of Agriculture.


said it might be convenient that he should first withdraw his Amendment, which he had desired to do after the speech of the noble Lord.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Question proposed, "That this House doth agree with the Committee in the said Resolution."


desired to call attention to the effect of what he could not but describe as the harsh and unsatisfactory action of the Board of Agriculture in reference to the prevention of sheep scab. From time to time he had placed his views before the President of the Board, who had met him with the greatest courtesy, but he had been unable to obtain any satisfaction with regard to the policy of the Department. The difficulty really arose through a clashing of authority between the local and the central bodies, which resulted in great confusion and no consistency of policy whatever.

Oswestry was the market for Denbighshire, Montgomeryshire, and Shropshire, where Welsh farmers brought their sheep and English farmers bought them. Under the present arrangements no sheep could be moved from the scheduled areas, of which Denbighshire and Mon-gomeryshire were two, without being dipped before a policeman or other officer and then quarantined for fifty-six days. This provision had naturally destroyed the business of Oswestry. The only thing that had been done to mitigate the hardship was the permission of the Board of Agriculture to allow two markets to be established, one authorised, where sheep from the scheduled areas might go, and the other for sheep from Shropshire, but that permission had now been withdrawn, and, as a consequence, the market for Denbighshire and Montgomeryshire had been removed out of Shropshire. It was exactly as though a tariff had been imposed against the importation of sheep into Shropshire. One auctioneer, who was moving his market from Oswestry, protested against having to submit to this "buffoonery" on the part of the Board, and declared it to be a "scandalous shame" that farmers and dealers should not be allowed to do what they thought was best for themselves. Many buyers were getting disgusted and were ceasing to go to Oswestry, simply because they could not rely on finding there a regular supply as they used to do. The matter had been warmly discussed in the Shropshire County Council, and strong feelings were entertained on the subject. Oswestry market was being damaged to the extent of 1,200 sheep a week by these absurd regulations.

SIR FREDERICK BANBURY (Camberwell, Peckham)

For the protection of the rest of the country. Other sheep-owners do not wish to have sheep scab imported into their flocks.


said he was stating the effect, and wished to show how it could be altered. There were two possible policies. One was compulsory dipping all round. There were, doubtless, difficulties connected with it, but it was a sensible and logical policy. The other was to make the scheduled areas very much smaller. To take an arbitrary area such as the whole county and dislocate the trade of the surrounding district was absolutely wanton and ineffective. He hoped the President of the Board of Agriculture would seriously consider whether there were not some means of getting rid of what he believed was a great detriment to the flock-masters and the sheep trade.

MR. LLEWELLYN (Somersetshire, N.)

hoped no notice whatever would be taken by the Board of Agriculture of the speech of the hon. Member for Oswestry with reference to sheep scab, and that nothing would be done to remove the restrictions which were at present in force for the benefit of the farmer. Auctioneers and dealers were the worst obstacles to the keeping of flocks clear of disease, and for an auctioneer to make a speech complaining that the restrictions were hampering his trade, and for that speech to be quoted in that House, was altogether monstrous. It was impossible to calculate the sickness which might have ensued if the Board of Agriculture had not been firm in using the powers they possessed in that respect. Fortunately flocks were at present particularly free from the disease, and he hoped nothing would be done by the Board to change that state of things.

MR. BUCHANAN (Perthshire, E.)

said that in Scotland they had had some experience of sheep scab and of the Orders of the Board of Agriculture, and he agreed with the complaints which had been made, not only by auctioneers, but by farmers who were supporters of the Government, and who pointed out the unwise way in which the original Sheep Scab Order would affect the county of Perth and the centre of Scotland generally. The President of the Board would agree that the Order as originally issued was found, to be one which could not be enforced without serious damage to the interests of agriculture throughout the centre of Sootland. In response to the reasonable request made to the Board of Agriculture the Order was considerably modified, and he believed that now the administration of the amended Order was being carried out with satisfaction to the various parties concerned.

He should like to refer to another subject which largely affected the centre of Scotland, namely, the exclusion of Canadian store cattle. That was a clear matter of protection. Nine years ago, the first year after the Government took office, they passed a Bill permanently prohibiting the importation of Canadian store cattle. In season and out of season they in Scotland had protested against that Act. They had said that there was no real ground, so far as disease was concerned, for permanently excluding these cattle by statute, and that the powers of the Board of Agriculture were perfectly adequate when there was any suspicion whatever of disease. The Government had maintained the Act although there had been no case made out for it, and only this session the President of the Board of Agriculture had acknowledged the fact. Constant representations on this point had been made, not merely by Members of that House, but also by those who represented important interests in Canada, asking for a relaxation of this exclusion. Strong representations had also been made by the Dominion Government, who naturally asked how could it be said that this country was in favour of free trade within the Empire when they were excluding the importation of Canadian cattle. The Act of 1896 was a protective statute, and large interests had grown up under it, and those interests were now too powerful for the Government, and consequently they were not able to relax the restrictions. This exclusion was a serious blow to the most important of all their Colonies, and this exclusion of Canadian cattle ought not to be continued. He wished in conclusion that it should be noted that a Conservative Government, which professed so much regard for the interests of agriculture, had only allowed out of twenty days devoted to discussion of Supply about forty minutes for the discussion of matters affecting agriculture.

SIR CARNE RASCH (Essex, Chelmsford)

asked whether the President of the Board of Agriculture could give any information as to the freight charges on agricultural produce on English railways. They very seldom got a chance of discussing this question. The present Board of Agriculture had done more than its predecessors in this matter, but nobody could argue that tbe railway interest was feebly represented in that House. Parliament never granted railway companies this great monopoly in order that the might penalise the home producer and bolster up the foreign producer, which was what was now being done. If he had time he could give a striking object-lesson in regard to the injurious effect these differential and preferential railway rates were having in the Eastern counties. It was necessary to call attention to this matter when we had to grow corn at 40s. and eke out a precarious living by selling it at 30s. It was obvious that the farmers in the Eastern counties could not stand these preferential and differential rates. He hoped the President of the Board of Agriculture would not relax the regulations with regard to sheep scab, and with regard to swine fever he would like to know whether the right hon. Gentleman did not think that if there was no compensation there would be considerably less swine fever. He could give swine fever to a pig in twenty-four hours by feeding it on maize and letting it lie dirty. He would suggest that the young gentlemen who were called inspectors of swine might with advantage carry out their interesting duties with rather less red tape and rather more common sense.

MR. KEIR HARDIE (Merthyr Tydvil)

said he would like to take the House away from the unsavoury topics which had been under discussion to a more pleasant subject. He wished to allude to the question of afforestation. He wished to know whether any steps had been taken towards carrying out the recommendations of the Select Committee which dealt with the question of forestry. He would remind the right hon. Gentleman that that Committee recommended that land should be secured on which pupils might be instructed in forestry. Upon this matter they were far behind other countries and more particularly Germany. The carrying out of a large scheme of afforestation would find permanent employment for between 25,000 and 50,000 men. Not only this, but such a scheme would add largely to the revenue of this country, and would ultimately lessen our dependence upon foreign countries for a supply of timber. From every point of view that would be advantageous, and surely when the House of Commons appointed a Committee to report upon this question they were entitled to ask the Government what had been done to give effect to the recommendations of that Committee, and what they intended to do in the future.


was glad that there had been an opportunity for some discussion on this Vote, which had not been discussed for three years. He did not agree that the Government was to blame for not bringing on the Vote before. The order of Supply was generally arranged between the two sides of the House. As regarded the sheep-scab regulations, the Board were blamed on the one hand for not taking strong enough action, and on the other for taking too strong action. He thought, therefore, the Board might be considered to have taken a fair line.

The House would remember that some two or three months ago the whole of the heather in Scotland was very nearly alight, and a great many influential men wrote to the Board to protest against the regulations. He was afraid then that things would not go very smoothly in that country, but later on a deputation of the largest flockmasters in Scotland came to London, and the result was that arrangements were made which had been satisfactory to the flockmasters and others. It was only that afternoon that the Board had received a telegram from their chief inspector in Scotland stating that the whole of the compulsory dipping Orders which had been made on this question were being carried out with success. This was a question which had for years been brought before their notice by different chambers of agriculture, and they had been pressed to take action upon it. It was rightly said that there was an absolute lack of uniformity in the regulations made by local authorities in regard to this disease. It was only last year, after the Report of the Committee on Sheep Scab had been presented, that the Board took the action they were now taking, and it was on the advice of that Committee that they had taken over the responsibility of making regulations to deal with the disease. He must say, however, that if they had acted on the whole of the recommendations of the Committee they would have encountered much more opposition in the great sheep districts of the country than they had done up to the present moment. When regulations were first enforced in Scotland, the Board considered that the balance of advantages was in favour of their Regulation of Movement Order. At the request of the deputation, however, a compulsory dipping Order had been put in operation and had met with success. If the dipping was satisfactorily carried out this year, the restrictions on movement which were a source of complaint in Shropshire and elsewhere would very likely be removed. Next spring they would take very great care that the question should be considered in all its bearings, and every consideration would be given to the case of Shropshire.

Long before he had anything to do with the Board of Agriculture

he strongly supported the restrictions which were placed on the importation of Canadian stores. It was hardly necessary for him to tell the Committee what his own opinions were on this question. A few weeks ago, speaking at Norwich, he went into the different details on the question, and he was bound to say to the Committee that he was not prepared to alter one jot or tittle of the present policy of the Board, which he believed was the only policy consistent with a proper regard for the safety of our herds in this country. He acknowledged that there was no disease at present, but he was not going to run the risk of the importation of disease either from Canada. Argentina, or anywhere else. He remembered hearing when very young of the great loss which the farming interest of this country suffered in the years 1865–67 by cattle disease.

The hon. Member for Essex had alluded to the question of railway rates. That had been a burning question with agriculturists for many years. He had taken action in regard to that question, and he hoped that in a very short time the Board would be able to arrange for conferences to take place at different centres in the country between agriculturists and the great railway companies. He trusted that a great deal of good would result.

And, it being Ten of the clock, Mr. SPEAKER, in pursuance of Standing Order No. 15, proceeded to put the Question necessary to dispose of the Report of the Resolution then under consideration.

Question put, "That this House doth agree with the Committee in the said Resolution."

The House divided:—Ayes, 231; Noes, 127. (Division List No. 332.)

Agg-Gardner, James Tynte Arrol, Sir William Baird, John George Alexander
Allhusen, Augustus Henry Eden Atkinson, Rt. Hon. John Balcarres, Lord
Anson, Sir William Reynell Aubrey-Fletcher,Rt.Hon. Sir H. Balfour, Rt.Hon.A. J. (Manch'r.)
Arkwright, John Stanhope Bagot, Capt. Josceline FitzRoy Balfour, Capt. C. B. (Hornsey)
Arnold-Forster, Rt.Hn.Hugh O. Bailey, James (Walworth) Balfour, Rt.HnGerald W.(Leeds
Balfour, Kenneth R.(Christch.) Gordon, Maj Evans (T'rH'mlets Morgan, David J. (Walthamstow
Banbury, Sir Frederick George Gore, Hon. S. F. Ormsby- Morpeth, Viscount
Banner, John S. Harmood- Gorst, Rt. Hon. Sir John Eldon Morrell, George Herbert
Bathurst, Hon. Allen Benjamin Goschen, Hon. George Joachim Morrison, James Archibald
Beach, Rt.Hn.Sir Michael Hicks Goulding, Edward Alfred Morton, Arthur H. Aylmer
Bentinck, Lord Henry C. Gray, Ernest (West Ham) Mount, William Arthur
Bhownaggree, Sir M. M. Greene, Henry D.(Shrewsbury) Murray, Charles J. (Coventry)
Bigwood, James Grenfell, William Henry Murray, Col. Wyndham (Bath)
Bill, Charles Gretton, John Nicholson, William Graham
Blundell, Colonel Henry Groves, James Grimble O'Neill, Hon. Robert Torrens
Bond, Edward Hall, Edward Marshall Palmer, Sir Walter (Salisbury)
Boscawen, Arthur Griffith- Halsey, Rt. Hon. Thomas F. Pease, Herbert Pike(Darlington)
Bousfield, William Robert Hamilton,Marq.of (L'nd'ndy). Pemberton, John S. G.
Brassey, Albert Hardy, Laurence(Kent Ashford Percy, Earl
Brodrick, Rt. Hon. St. John Harris, F.Leverton (Tynem'th) Pierpoint, Robert
Brown, Sir Alex. H. (Shropsh.) Haslam, Sir Alfred S. Pilkington, Colonel Richard
Brymer, William Ernest Hay, Hon. Claude George Platt-Higgins, Frederick
Bull, William James Heath, Arthur Howard(Hanley Plummer, Sir Walter R.
Butcher, John George Heath,Sir James(Staffords.NW Powell, Sir Francis Sharp
Campbell,J.H.M.(Dublin Univ.) Heaton, John Henniker Pretyman, Ernest George
Carlile, William Walter Helder, Sir Augustus Pryce-Jones, Lt.-Col. Edward
Carson, Rt. Hon. Sir Edw. H. Henderson, Sir A.(Stafford, W.) Purvis, Robert
Cautley, Henry Strother Hermon-Hodge, Sir Robert T. Randles, John S.
Cavendish, V.C.W.(Derbyshire) Hill, Henry Staveley Rankin, Sir James
Cayzer, Sir Charles William Hope,J.F.(Sheffield, Brightside) Rasch, Sir Frederic Carne
Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor) Hornby, Sir William Henry Ratcliff, R. F.
Cecil, Lord Hugh (Greenwich) Hoult, Joseph Reed, Sir Edw.James (Cardiff)
Chamberlain, Rt.Hon.J.(Birm.) Houston, Robert Paterson Reid, James (Greenock)
Chamberlain, Rt. Hn.J. A. (Worc Howard,Jn.(Kent, Faversham) Remnant, James Farquharson
Chamberlayne, T.(S'thampton) Howard, J. (Midd., Tottenham) Roberts, Samuel (Sheffield)
Chapman, Edward Hozier, Hon. James Henry Cecil Robertson, Herbert (Hackney)
Clare, Octavius Leigh Hudson, George Bickersteth Rolleston, Sir John F. L.
Clive, Captain Percy A. Hunt, Rowland Round, Rt. Hon. James
Coates, Edward Feetham Hutton, John (Yorks., N.R.) Rutherford, John (Lancashire)
Cochrane, Hon. Thos. H. A. E. Jameson, Major J. Eustace Rutherford, W. W. (Liverpool)
Coghill, Douglas Harry Jeffreys, Rt. Hon.Arthur Fred. Sackville, Col. S. G. Stopford-
Collings, Rt. Hon. Jesse Jessel, Captain Herbert Merton Sadler, Col. Sir Samuel Alex.
Colston, Chas. Edw. H. Athole Kenyon, Hon.Geo.T.(Denbigh) Samuel, Sir HarryS.(Limehouse
Compton, Lord Alwyne Keswick, William Saunderson, Rt.Hn.Col.Edw. J.
Corbett, T. L. (Down, North) Kimber, Sir Henry Sharpe, William Edward T.
Crossley, Rt. Hon. Sir Savile Knowles, Sir Lees Sinclair, Louis (Romford)
Dalrymple, Sir Charles Laurie, Lieut.-General Skewes-Cox, Sir Thomas
Davenport, William Bromley- Law, Andrew Bonar (Glasgow) Sloan, Thomas Henry
Davies,Sir Horatio D.(Chatham) Lawrence, Wm. F. (Liverpool) Smith, Abel H.(Hertford, East)
Dickson, Charles Scott Lawson,Hn.H.L.W.(Mile End) Smith,Rt.HnJ.Parker(Lanarks
Disraeli, Coningsby Ralph Lawson, John Grant (Yorks.,NR Smith, Hon. W. F. D. (Strand)
Dixon-Hartland,Sir Fred Dixon Lee, Arthur H. (Hants., Fareham Spencer, Sir E. (W. Bromwich)
Dorington, Rt.Hon.SirJohn E. Legge, Col. Hon. Heneage Stanley, Hon. Arthur(Ormskirk)
Doughty, Sir George Llewellyn, Evan Henry Stanley, Edward Jas.(Somerset
Douglas, Rt. Hon. A. Akers- Long, Col.Charles W.(Evesham Stanley, Rt. Hon. Lord(Lancs.)
Doxford, Sir William Theodore Long,Rt.Hn. Walter(Bristol,S.) Stewart, Sir Mark J. M'Taggart
Duke, Henry Edward Lonsdale, John Brownlee Stirling-Maxwell, Sir John M.
Dyke,Rt.Hon.Sir William Hart Lowe, Francis William Stock, James Henry
Faber, Edmund B. (Hants, W.) Loyd, Archie Kirkman Stone, Sir Benjamin
Faber, George Denison (York) Lucas, Col. Francis (Lowestoft) Stroyan, John
Fellowes, Rt. HnAilwynEdward Lucas, Reginald J.(Portsmouth) Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester)
Fergusson,Rt.Hn.Sir J.(Manc'r Lyttelton, Rt. Hon. Alfred Talbot, Rt. Hn.J.G.(Oxf'd Univ.
Fielden, Edward Brocklehurst Macdona, John Cumming Thornton, Percy M.
Finch, Rt. Hon. George H. MacIver, David (Liverpool) Tollemache, Henry James
Finlay,Rt Hn SirR.B(Inv'rn'ss) Maconochie, A. W. Tomlinson, Sir Wm. Edw. M.
Fisher, William Hayes M'Killop, James (Stirlingshire) Tuff, Charles
Fitzroy, Hon.Edward Algernon Majendie, James A. H. Vincent, Col.SirCEH.(Sheffield)
Flannery, Sir Fortescue Marks, Harry Hananel Vincent, Sir Edgar (Exeter)
Flower, Sir Ernest Martin, Richard Biddulph Walrond,Rt.Hn.Sir William H
Forster, Henry William Massey-Mainwaring, Hn. W. F. Warde, Colonel C. E.
Gardner, Ernest Maxwell, W.J.H.(Dumfriesshire Welby,Lt.-Col.A.C.E(Taunton)
Garfit, William Mildmay, Francis Bingham Welby,Sir Charles G.E.(Notts.)
Gibbs, Hon. A. G. H. Milvain, Thomas Whiteley, H. (Ashtonund.Lyne
Godson, Sir Augustus Frederick Molesworth, Sir Lewis Whitmore, Charles Algernon
Gordon, J. (Londonderry, S.) Moon, Edward Robert Pacy Willoughby de Eresby, Lord
Wilson, John (Glasgow) Wrightson, Sir Thomas TELLERS FOR THE AYES—Sir
Wodehouse, Rt.Hn. E.R.(Bath) Wylie, Alexander Alexander Acland-Hood and
Wortely, Rt.Hon. C. B.Stuart- Yerburgh, Robert Armstrong Viscount Valentia.
Atherley-Jones, L. Harrington, Timothy Priestley, Arthur
Baker, Joseph Allen Harwood, George Read, Russell
Barry, E. (Cork, S.) Hayden, John Patrick Redmond, John E.(Waterford)
Bell, Richard Helme, Norval Watson Richards, Thomas
Black, Alexander William Hemphill, Rt. Hon. Charles H. Rickett, J. Compton
Bolton, Thomas Dolling Henderson, Arthur (Durham) Roberts, John Bryn (Eifion)
Broadhurst, Henry Higham, John Sharp Roberts, John H. (Denbighs.)
Bryce, Rt. Hon. James Hutchinson, Dr. Charles Fredk. Roe, Sir Thomas
Buchanan, Thomas Ryburn Isaacs, Rufus Daniel Rose, Charles Day
Burt, Thomas Jacoby, James Alfred Samuel, Herbert L.(Cleveland)
Buxton, N.E(York,NR,Whitby Joicey, Sir James Samuel, S. M. (Whitechapel)
Buxton,SydneyCharles(Poplar) Jones,David Brynmor(Swansea Seely,Maj.J.E.B.(Isle ofWight)
Caldwell, James Jones, Leif (Appleby) Shackleton, David James
Causton, Richard Knight Jones, William(Carnarvonshire) Shipman, Dr. John G.
Channing, Francis Allston Jordan, Jeremiah Slack, John Bamford
Clancy, John Joseph Kennedy, P. J.(Westmeath.N.) Smith, Samuel (Flint)
Crean, Eugene Kitson, Sir James Soames, Arthur Wellesley
Cremer, William Randal Lambert, George Soares, Ernest J.
Crooks, William Lamont, Norman Spencer,Rt.Hn.C.R (Northants
Cullinan, J. Langley, Batty Sullivan, Donal
Delany, William Lawson, Sir Wilfrid (Cornwall) Taylor, Theodore C.(Radcliffe)
Dilke, Rt. Hon. Sir Charles Leese, Sir JosephF.(Accrington) Thomas, Sir A.(Glamorgan,E.)
Dobbie, Joseph Lloyd-George, David Thomas,David Alfred (Merthyr
Doogan, P. C. Lough, Thomas Thompson,Dr.E C(Monagh'n,N
Edwards, Frank Lundon, W. Toulmin, George
Elibank, Master of Lyell, Charles Henry Ure, Alexander
Ellice,Capt. EC(S.Andrw'sBghs MacNeill, John Gordon Swift Walton, John Lawson(Leeds,S.)
Emmott, Alfred MacVeagh, Jeremiah Walton, Joseph (Barnsley)
Evans,SirFrancis H.(Maidstone M'Fadden, Edward Wason, Eugene (Clackmannan)
Eve, Harry Trelawney M'Kean, John Weir, James Galloway
Fenwick, Charles Morgan, J. Lloyd (Carmarthen) White, Luke (York, E.R.)
Findlay, Alexander(Lanark,NE Moss, Samuel Whiteley, George (York, W.R.)
Flavin, Michael Joseph Moulton, John Fletcher Whitley, J. H. (Halifax)
Flynn, James Christopher Murnaghan, George Whittaker, Thomas Palmer
Fowler, Rt. Hon. Sir Henry Murphy, John Wilson, Henry J. (York, W.R.)
Fuller, J. M. F. Nolan, Col.John P.(Galway,N.) Wilson, John (Falkirk)
Gladstone, Rt. Hn.Herbert John Norton, Capt. Cecil William Woodhouse,Sir J.T(Huddersf'd
Goddard, Daniel Ford O'Briea,Kendal(TipperaryMid) Young, Samuel
Grant, Corrie O'Connor,James (Wicklow, W. Yoxall, James Henry
Guest, Hon. Ivor Churchill O'Donnell, T. (Kerry, W.)
Haldane, Rt. Hon. Richard B. Parrott, William TELLERS FOR THE NOES—Mr.
Hammond, John Partington, Oswald Bright and Mr. Charles Allen
Harcourt, Lewis Pirie, Duncan V.
Hardie,J.Keir(Merthyr Tydvil) Power, Patrick Joseph

Question, "That this House doth agree with the Committee in the outstanding Resolution reported in respect of Class VI. of the Civil Services Estimates," put, and agreed to.

MR. SPEAKER then proceeded, in pursuance of Standing Order No. 15, to put forthwith the Questions, That this House doth agree with the Committee in the outstanding Resolutions reported in respect of each Class of the Civil Services Estimates, the Navy Estimates, the Army Estimates, and the Revenue Departments Estimates.