HC Deb 06 April 1905 vol 144 cc721-5

said the Chairman of Ways and Means, who was unable to be present himself owing to illness, had requested him to move this Motion. He had also asked him to explain that his right hon. friend only put down the Motion because he understood that the Standing Orders Committee agreed to it, but if they did not agree to it he was not to force it through. Both the promoters and the opponents to the Bill were of opinion that if it were referred back to the Committee it would save discussion in the House, and his right hon. friend the Chairman of Committees understood that the Committee on Standing Orders agreed to have it refered back to them because the petition not being put in to time was due to an error. In former days petitions against a Bill had to be put in within ten days after the First Reading, but it was decided to alter the Standing Order so that now all petitions must be put in by February 12th. It appeared that the Parliamentary agents had obtained a copy of the old Standing Orders, and it was due to that that the error had occurred. He begged to move.

Motion made, and Question proposed, "That the Resolution of the Select Committee on Standing Orders of 14th March in the case of the Petition of the Portadown Urban District Council praying to be heard against the said Bill be referred back to the Select Committee on Standing Orders with a view to consider whether, under the circumstances of the case, Standing Order 128 should be dispensed with in respect of the said Petition."—(The Deputy-Chairman.)

*MR. JOHN ELLIS (Nottinghamshire, Rushcliffe)

said this was an exceptional Motion. It did not instruct the Committee on Standing Orders to do anything but to re-consider a decision they had already arrived at. He thought the language of the right hon. Gentleman was exaggerated. So far as he knew, the Committee on Standing Orders had expressed no wish to have this referred back to them. He objected to the Motion on the previous Friday, because it was made on a Friday—that was the extent of his objection. He did not feel warranted in opposing it now that the Chairman of Ways and Means had, on his own responsibility and after due consideration, put the Motion on the Paper, but he wished strongly to emphasise its exceptional nature.

MR. HALSEY (Hertfordshire, Watford)

said the right hon. Gentleman the Deputy-Chairman was a little misinformed when he said he understood the Standing Orders Committee wished this back; that was too strong a term. It was a most unusual course for the House to refer back to the Committee a matter upon which they had come to a decision and reported. But he did not intend to offer any opposition to the Motion.

MR. BUCHANAN (Perthshire, E.)

said so far as he knew there had not been any consultation with the Committee on Standing Orders as to the propriety of this proposal. The Standing Orders Committee had nothing to do with the merits of the Bill. They had merely to say whether the Standing Order should be dispensed with. This was a some-what important matter for the House of Commons. The question was whether they were going to remit back to the Standing Orders Committee a question which they had already determined for their reconsideration. It was an unusual Motion, but not an unprecedented one. In former years cases had been remitted to the Standing Orders Committee, but in all the precedents for a Motion of this

kind the Chairman of Committees had been able to say there were certain new facts which had not come to the knowledge of the Standing Orders Committee. As a member of the Committee he sincerely hoped the House would not assent to this Motion unless some really fresh facts were going to be adduced.

Question put.

The House divided:—Ayes, 104; Noes, 93. (Division List No. 104.)

Acland-Hood, Capt. Sir A. F. Flower, Sir Ernest Morrison, James Archibald
Anson, Sir William Reynell Forster, Henry William Palmer, Sir Walter (Salisbury)
Arkwright, John Stanhope Gardner, Ernest Parker, Sir Gilbert
Arnold-Forster, Rt. Hn. H. O Godson, Sir Augustus Freder'k Pease, Herbert Pike (Darlington
Atkinson, Rt. Hon. John Gordon, Hn. J. E. (Elgin & Nairn) Pilkington, Colonel Richard
Bagot, Capt. Josceline Fitzroy Gordon, J. (Londonderry, S.) Plummer, Sir Walter R.
Balcarres, Lord Gordon, Maj. Evans (T'rH'ml'ts Pryce-Jones, Lt.-Col. Edward
Balfour, Rt Hn. Gerald W. (Leeds Gore, Hon. S. F. Ormsby- Purvis, Robert
Banbury, Sir Fred'k George Goulding, Edward Alfred Randles, John S.
Banner, John S. Harmood- Gretton, John Rasch, Sir Frederic Carne
Bignold, Sir Arthur Groves, James Grimble Reid, James (Greenock)
Bigwood, James Hamilton, Marq. of (Lond'nd'ry Robertson, Herbert (Hackney)
Blundell, Colonel Henry Heath, Sir James (Staff'ds. N. W Rollit, Sir Albert Kaye
Bond, Edward Helder, Augustus Ropner, Colonel Sir Robert
Boscawen, Arthur Griffith Hickman, Sir Alfred Sadler, Col. Samuel Alexander
Bull, William James Hoare, Sir Samuel Sharpe, William Edward T.
Caldwell, James Hogg, Lindsay Sloan, Thomas Henry
Campbell, J H M (Dublin Univ. Houston, Robert Paterson Smith, Rt. Hn J. Parker (Lanarks
Carson, Rt. Hn. Sir Edw. H. Howard, John (Kent, Favers'm Spear, John Ward
Cavendish, V. C. W. (Derbyshire Hozier, Hn. James Henry Cecil Stanley, Hn. Arthur (Ormskirk)
Chapman, Edward Hudson, George Bickersteth Thorburn, Sir Walter
Cochrane, Hon. Thos. H. A. E. Jeffreys, Rt. Hn. Arthur Fred Tomlinson, Sir Wm. Edw. M.
Collings, Rt. Hon. Jesse Kenyon-Slaney, Rt. Hn. Col. W. Tuff, Charles
Colston, Chas. Edw. H. Athole Kerr, John Turnour, Viscount
Corbett, T. L. (Down, North) Law Andrew Bonar (Glasgow) Valentia, Viscount
Crossley, Rt. Hon. Sir Savile Lawrence, Wm. F. (Liverpool) Walrond, Rt. Hn. Sir Wm. H.
Davenport, William Bromley Lee, A. H. (Hants., Fareham) Warde, Colonel C. E.
Denny, Colonel Long, Rt. Hn. Walter (Bristol, S) Welby, Lt.-Col. A.C.E. (T'n't'n
Dewar, Sir T. R. (T'r Hamlets) Macdona, John Cumming Wentworth, Bruce C. Vernon
Dickson, Charles Scott MacIver, David (Liverpool) Willoughby de Eresby, Lord
Douglas, Rt. Hon. A. Akers- Maconochie, A. W. Wilson, John (Glasgow)
Doxford, Sir William Theodore M'Iver, Sir Lewis (Edinb'r'h,W Wrightson, Sir Thomas
Fardell, Sir T. George Majendie, James A. H.
Fellowes, Hn. Ailwyn Edward Maxwell, W. J. H. (Dumfriessh're TELLERS FOR THE AYES—Mr.
Finch, Rt. Hon. George H. Milvain, Thomas Charles Craig and Mr. Lons-
Finlay, Sir R. B. (Inv'n'ss B'ghs) Moore, William dale.
Abraham, William (Cork, N. E. Campbell, John (Armagh, S.) Findlay, Alexander (Lanark, N E
Abraham, William (Rhondda) Cawley, Frederick Flynn, James Christopher
Barry, E. (Cork, S.) Cheetham, John Frederick Foster, Sir Walter (Derby Co.)
Bell, Richard Condon, Thomas Joseph Gilhooly, James
Black, Alexander William Craig, Robert Hunter (Lanark) Haldane, Rt. Hon. Richard B.
Blake, Edward Crean, Eugene Hardie, J. Keir (Merthyr T'vil)
Boland, John Cullinan, J. Hayden, John Patrick
Brigg, John Delany, William Hemphill, Rt. Hon. Charles H.
Bright, Allan Heywood Devlin, Joseph (Kilkenny, N.) Henderson, Arthur (Durham)
Broadhurst, Henry Donelan, Captain A. Higham, John Sharp
Buchanan, Thomas Ryburn Doogan, P. C. Horniman, Frederick John
Burt, Thomas Fenwick, Charles Jacoby, James Alfred
Cameron, Robert Ffrench, Peter Johnson, John
Jones, Leif (Appleby) Nolan, Joseph (Louth, South Roche, John
Jones, William (Carnarvonshire O'Brien, Kendal (Tipperary Mid Samuel, Herbert L. (Cleveland)
Joyce, Michael O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny) Shaw, Thomas (Hawick B.)
Kilbride, Denis O'Brien, P. J. (Tipperary, N.) Sheehy, David
Lamont, Norman O'Connor, James (Wicklow, W. Shipman, Dr. John G.
Law, Hugh Alex. (Donegal, W. O'Donnell, John (Mayo, S.) Spencer, Rt. Hn. C R. (Northants
Lawson, Sir Wilfrid (Cornwall) O'Donnell, T. (Kerry, W.) Strachey, Sir Edward
Layland-Barratt, Francis O'Dowd, John Sullivan, Donal
Leese, Sir Joseph F. (Ac'r'gton O'Kelly, Conor (Mayo, N.) Taylor, Theodore C. (Radcliffe)
Levy, Maurice O'Malley, William Thomas, Sir A. (Glamorgan, E.)
Lloyd-George, David O'Shaughnessy, P. J. Warner, Thomas Courtenay T.
Lundon, W. O'Shee, James John Wason, John Cathcart (Orkney
MacNeill, John Gordon Swift Paulton, James Mellor Whiteley, George (York, W. R.)
MacVeagh, Jeremiah Power, Patrick Joseph Whittaker, Thomas Palmer
M'Crae, George Rea, Russell Wilson, John (Durham, Mid.)
M'Kean, John Reddy, M.
M'Killop W. (Sligo, North) Redmond, John E. (Waterford TELLERS FOR THE NOES—Mr.
Mooney, John J. Reid, Sir R. Threshie (Dumfries Fuller and Mr. J. H. Whitley.
Murphy, John Richards, Thomas (W. Monm'th