HC Deb 07 July 1904 vol 137 cc974-7
MR. SWIFT MACNEILL (Donegal, S.)

I beg to ask the First Lord of the Treasury whether he will give the Return asked for in the Order Paper this day relating to the revenues and method of government and administration of Trinity College, Dublin.

THE PRIME MINISTER AND FIRST LORD OF THE TREASURY (Mr. A. J. BALFOUR, Manchester, E.)

I have looked into this matter, and I find that in part the information asked for is to be found in the College Calendar published each year under the authority of the Board. Other information can be collected from the Report of the Royal Commission of 1853, and from two Returns, one of June 10th, 1874 (Incomes and Revenues) for each year (1869–1873), and from another Return of August 5th of 1889 (Incomes and Revenues). The revenues of the college, which, apart from fees, are mainly derived from land held by the college, are at present the subject of a reference to a Vice-regal Commission, which has just been appointed. Having regard to the information available from the sources indicated, it would appear that no useful object would be attained by granting the Return, which would entail very considerable expense, as it would necessitate practically the preparation of a volume of great length dealing with the whole question of University administration. I do not think I could with propriety ask the University authorities to furnish this material, as they have no staff or funds available for the purpose.

MR. SWIFT MACNEILL

asked whether the right hon. Gentleman was aware that since the last Report, issued in 1899, Trinity College had obtained something like £15,000 a year extra of public money.

MR. A. J. BALFOUR

imagined that, if that were so, it must have been either for fees or land, and if it was for land it would be the subject of inquiry by the Vice-regal Commission, whose Report, no doubt, would be made public.

MR. BRYCE (Aberdeen, S.)

May I ask the right hon. Gentleman whether it is within his knowledge that a Return with regard to revenues was given for the Universities of Oxford and Cambridge some time ago, and that no difficulty was raised by the authorities, and whether, if a good deal of the information asked for can be abstracted from the different Returns to which he has referred, it would be so difficult and costly to put it in a form which would be convenient to Members of the House and to others interested in Irish education. This is a matter of great interest not only to the people of Ireland, and it is almost impossible at present, except by very laborious investigation of these documents, to get even the elementary facts of the case.

MR. A. J. BALFOUR

I speak with very imperfect knowledge of the subject, but I conceive there would not be a serious difficulty in collating the information already available to the public. But that information would hardly be complete enough for the subject of a Parliamentary Return if, as I understand the case, there are other parts of the question in regard to which the difficulty I have referred to would make itself felt. I cannot add to what I have already said. I am told that it would be a costly and difficult thing, and in that case, and considering that there is a Commission investigating it, it seems premature, at all events, to ask the college to undertake this costly operation.

MR. SWIFT MACNEILL

But is the right lion. Gentleman aware that the Return for which I am asking is framed exactly on the one granted for Oxford and Cambridge.

* MR. SPEAKER

The right hon. Gentleman has said he cannot give the Return. The hon. Member cannot debate that Answer.

The Return referred to was as follows—

Trinity College, Dublin—Return of Revenues and Statement of method of government and administration, in the following form:—

  1. (a) A Statement of the Revenues of the College, and of the sources from-which they are derived.
  2. (b) As to the Fellows of the College— Their number; method of election; tenure of office; the duties and emoluments of each individual Fellow, and the 977 sources from which these emoluments I are derived; how many, and which of them, hold professorships or other offices.
  3. (c) As to the Processors— Their number; method of election; tenure of office; the duties and emoluments of each Professor; whence are those emoluments derived; how many, and which of them, hold other collegiate offices.
  4. (d) A Statement of the method of government and administration of the College (distinguishing the duties of the Board and of the Academic Council), and of the number, duties, and salaries of the persons, other than servants, porters, etc., employed in the College.
  5. (e) A Statement giving particulars as to the four professional schools, showing—
    1. (1) The number of Professors and Teachers in each school.
    2. (2) The emoluments received by each such Professor and Teacher.
    3. (3) The fees paid in each school for professional instruction.
  6. (f) A Statement giving particulars of the amount and employment of the Fund received as compensation for the Church livings of which the College was deprived in 1869, showing—
    1. (1) The original amount of the Fund.
    2. (2) The method of investment.
    3. (3) The employment of the interest of the Fund.
    4. (4) The present amount of the Fund.
  7. (g) What provision is made for pensioning Fellows and Professors and other persons in the employment of the College. How many pensions have been granted since 1870. Age, employment, and cause of retirement of persons to whom such pensions have been granted. How many of such persons are now living.