§ MAJOR SEELY (Isle of Wight)I beg to ask the First Lord of the Treasury whether, in view of the undertaking given by the Secretary of State for the Colonies that no final sanction shall be given to the proposed importation of Chinese labour into the Transvaal until the 730 matter has been fully discussed in this House, he can state how soon after the conclusion of the debate on the Address opportunities for discussion will be given.
§ SIR CHARLES McLARENAt the same time may I ask the First Lord of the Treasury when an opportunity will be given to the House of expressing an opinion on Chinese labour in the Transvaal Colony.
§ MR. SYDNEY BUXTON (Tower Hamlets, Poplar)Before the right hon. Gentleman answers, I wish to inquire whether the telegram which appears in The Times of to-day, dated Pretoria, "In consequence of communications received from the Home Government, the Legislative Council have decided to postpone taking any steps in regard to the importation of native labour," is correct.
§ * MR. LYTTELTONNo, Sir. So far as I know, that postponement must be due to something I am not acquainted with. My belief is that the Ordinance will pass its Third Reading to-day.
§ SIR H. CAMPBELL-BANNERMAN (Stirling Burghs)I have to ask when the evidence taken before the Labour Commission will be in the hands of Members. Is it accessible, for there appears to be only one copy? Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that there is no official copy of the Ordinance to which the House is asked to give approval? The Paper has been printed, but it is not in the hands of Members yet, which indicates the enormous number of alterations made upon it since it was first introduced. The right hon. Gentleman will no doubt give effect to this consideration if he is going to fix a day for the discussion.
§ * MR. AKERS DOUGLASI think that the Colonial Secretary had better answer the detailed Question of the right hon. Gentleman.
§ * MR. LYTTELTONThe evidence has been printed, and four copies of it are in the library of the House of Commons and two copies in the House of Lords. The Ordinance as amended was in the Blue-book, but the Amendments were not 731 actually printed in the same document as the original Ordinance, but we have since then done that. The Ordinance, therefore, now stands, and was in the hands of Members yesterday in its final shape.
§ SIR H. CAMPBELL-BANNERMANIn this Paper the last telegram is February 6, from Lord Milner to the right hon. Gentleman, enclosing an innumerable quantity of Amendments which cannot possibly be embodied in any document in the hands of Members.
§ * MR. LYTTELTONThe right hon. Gentleman says so, but my information is to the contrary.
§ SIR H. CAMPBELL-BANNERMANThis document has only now become available to hon. Members in the Vote Office, and it has not yet been circulated. It contains no fewer than five pages of new Amendments sent by Lord Milner, dated 6th February, and the copy of the Ordinance is not official, for it is headed "reconstructed according to the telegrams." Is the House to understand that this is really a fulfilment of the pledge given by the right hon. Gentleman last week that hon. Members should have a full and official copy of the Ordinance as passed by the Transvaal Legislative Council?
§ SIR ROBERT REID (Dumfries Burghs)Is the right hon. Gentleman aware of the size and character of the documents in the library, and does he think hon. Members can fairly weigh the evidence contained in them for the purposes of debate in the next two or three days?
§ * MR. LYTTELTONThe debate is not anticipated until next week. The volume, I admit, is bulky, but the hon. and learned Member has frequently had to deal with more bulky documents in a very much shorter time.
§ MR. JOHN ELLIS (Nottinghamshire, Rushcliffe)We are not all lawyers.
§ * MR. LYTTELTONI think that the opportunity of dealing with this volume with reasonable brevity will be easy for 732 hon. Members opposite, even if they do not belong to the legal profession. There are two Reports of the Commission, the minority and majority; and practically all the points at issue which are of importance are carefully grouped, and reference is made to the evidence. With the great bulk of the evidence the hon. and learned Gentleman need have no dealings.
§ SIR H. CAMPBELL-BANNERMANHow long will it take hon. Members, four at a time, to have an opportunity of considering this document?
§ * MR. AKERS DOUGLASI can make no promise of any other day for the discussion than the opportunity which may be afforded next week.
§ MAJOR SEELYMay I ask whether the Government propose to give their final sanction to the Ordinance immediately after the discussion on the Address?
§ MR. HERBERT SAMUELThe right hon. Gentleman speaks of the opportunity which may be afforded next week. May we assume that an opportunity will be given on the Address next week to discuss the question?
§ SIR H. CAMPBELL-BANNERMANWe should very much prefer to have a clean and separate opportunity. That is what we asked for before.
§ * MR. LYTTELTONI explained fully to the House three or four days ago that it was in deference to a letter written by the Leader of the Opposition that the unusual course was taken to introduce a suspensory clause in the Ordinance which would have the effect of preventing its coming into operation until the House had an opportunity of discussing the matter. I pointed out the opportunity which would be given to hon. Members to raise whatever Amendments they pleased on the Address; and on behalf of the Government it is not proposed to extend that undertaking any further.
§ SIR. H. CAMPBELL-BANNERMANWe never accepted that. The right hon. Gentleman is giving an opportunity which in effect is nothing given by him because it is something we have in our own hands.