HC Deb 12 August 1904 vol 140 cc483-5

Considered in Committee. (In the Committee.)

[Mr. J. W. LOWTHER (Cumberland, Penrith) in the Chair.]

Clauses 1 and 2 agreed to.

Clause 3:—

Mr. Weir.


pointed out that the last paragraph of this clause appropriated sums not granted by Resolutions but appropriated under the Public Charges Act of 1901 by the Treasury. Those were sums which the House could neither vote for or against. He had, upon a former occasion, put a Question to the Chairman in regard to the power of the House to discuss appropriations-in-aid, and the Chairman stated that, in his opinion, the House could not deal with any of those sums either by diminishing them or otherwise, inasmuch as they were not granted by the House but by the Treasury under the Public Charges Act. He wished to know whether at this or any previous stage there was any possibility of the House dialing with them? He did not propose to make any alteration, but he wished to point out that, as a matter of fact, this was the only opportunity the House had of dealing with these appropriations-in-aid at all. Was it to be understood that at this stage of the Bill the House had no power to deal with any of the sums?


I think it is rather a complicated and difficult question and I can only refer to the ruling to which the hon. Member has referred. I was not aware that the question was to be raised to-day or I should have considered it more carefully. it does not seem to me that the hon. Member can alter the appropriations. There would be considerable difficulty in altering the appropriations on this clause being submitted to the Committee. Obviously when any measure is proposed to the House it is for the House to deal with it. The House, if it desired, could strike the clause out, and if it did so, the effect would be to refuse sanction to the appropriations made by the Treasury. What the ultimate effect of that would be I would not like to say On the spur of the moment.


said he did not wish to press the point. He ought to have given longer notice of the Question.

Clause 3 agreed to.

Clause 4:—


asked whether it was intended to use the power contained in this clause to provide for the expense of the Somaliland expedition.


No, Sir.

Clause 4 agreed to.

Clauses 5 to 7 agreed to.

Schedules agreed to.

Bill reported, without Amendment; to be read the third time To-morrow.