§ Motion made, and Question proposed, "That a sum, not exceeding £536,790, be granted to His Majesty, to complete the sum necessary to defray the charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1904, for the expenses of the Post Office Packet Service."
§ MR. WEIR (Ross and Cromarty)complained of the miserable service and insufficient accommodation provided by the Post Office Packet Service to the Western Islands of Scotland. He thought a Department which was making £4,000,000 a year profit ought to spend more upon the services in the poor districts. He could not understand why the Post Office should be so mean and niggardly towards the Western Islands of Scotland. Was it because they were represented by only a few hon. Members in the House? If they were represented by as strong a body as the Irish Members they would have no difficulty in wringing out of Ministers a little more money to help them. In the Island of Lewis there was a population of 30,000 people, and during the fishing season he had seen the mail steamer there overcrowded with fishermen and girls to such an extent as to be positively dangerous in rough weather. If any disaster did happen to those steamers the responsibility would lie upon the heads of those who employed such wretched old timbered-up steamers for carrying the mails. The North British Railway had been voted £260,000 for the development of industries, and yet they refused to contribute a farthing towards assisting the fishing industry. The Post Office ought to insist upon the North British Railway acting more generously in regard to the conveyance of the mails. Some of the mail packet steamers provided the most wretched accommodation for second-class and steerage passengers, and they had occasionally to be packed like herrings in a barrel. It was disgraceful that such a state of things should be allowed, and proper arrangements should be made for the comfort of the passengers. It was the duty of the Post Office, in making their contracts, to 386 see that the steamers not only gave proper facilities for carrying His Majesty's mails, but also provided proper accommodation for the public. The mail steamers were invariably late, with the result that the mails were not delivered at Stornoway and other places at the proper time. How could they expect rotten old boats like those employed, to keep proper time? Monstrous charges were made by these steamers for short runs. If there happened to be a few sheep or bullocks to be brought from some of the other islands the mail steamers were told off to pick them up, instead of being kept for the special work for which they were paid. The steamers now employed by the Post Office were totally unfit for the work, and better provision ought to be made. Miserably small subsidies were paid all along the line, and the right hon. Gentleman ought to put his hand into his pockets more liberally and provide better subsidies. He moved a reduction of Item A by £100.
§ Motion made, and Question proposed, "That Item A be reduced by £100, in respect of contracts for conveyance of mails in the United Kingdom."—(Mr. Weir.)
§ MR. CATHCART WASON (Orkney and Shetland)said the contention of the Post Office was that they were already paying more in subsidies than the returns of the service justified. He did not think that that was a fair contention. He did not think that even the Postmaster-General would contend that the mails should be conveyed at the cheapest possible rates irrespective of all other considerations. The Post Office ought to do all it could to further the material welfare of all portions of His Majesty's dominions. There was a totally inadequate mail service to Lerwick. There were during certain times of the year only three mails in the week, and it was said that sometimes they practically all arrived together. Lerwick was the capital of the important county of Shetland, and the material prosperity of the whole county was deeply bound up and centred in a mail service more suited to the circumstances and requirements of the people. The service from Lerwick 387 to Fair Island was also very irregular and unsatisfactory, though the subsidy in this case was ample, he believed, to give the residents of Fair Island a much better service. The service between Thurso and Kirkwall and Stromness was also very often hours late, and he believed the fault was at this end, and the railway companies should be compelled to keep their regular hours or else the delay in arriving at Kirkwall and Stromness was not only inconvenient but dangerous. He appealed to the right hon. Gentleman to improve the services. He was sure the great attention which the right hon. Gentleman was paying to his Department would lead to a much better state of things if he would make inquiries into this matter.
§ MR. JOHN DEWAR (Inverness-shire)said he must congratulate the Postmaster-General on the great improvements that had been made in the last two years. On one island in his constituency the news of the death of the late Queen was not received until nine days after it occurred. Since then, he was glad to say, the island had been given a telegraph station. The irregularities of which they complained were chiefly due to the steamer service, which was a monopoly. He wished to support the Post Office and the right hon. Gentleman in trying to get a better service in the Western Islands. They had now got a much better train service, and if they could only induce the proprietors of the small steamers to improve their service by providing better, safer, and faster boats they would be satisfied. No doubt the service did not pay the Post Office, for they paid £3,000 a year for a service to Stornoway, and they only got about £1,200 a year out of it. He, however, desired to support the Post Office in trying to break down this monopoly.
§ MR. CULLINAN (Tipperary, S.)called attention to the mail service between England and Ireland for which the sum set down in the Vote was £98,000. Undoubtedly the service was very good, but it was very often late, and in recent times, especially in the south of Ireland, there had been serious complaints regarding the late delivery of mails. This 388 was owing to the lateness of the boats on their arrival at Kingstown. The trains carried the mails to the towns on the main lines, but on the branch linen when the trains were late there was no means of conveying the mails without delay. The result was that the mails were eight and ten hours late at several important towns in the south and west of Ireland, and that meant a delay of twenty-four hours for business people. The Post Office gave a large subsidy to the railway companies. The Great Southern and Western Company was allowed a delay of forty minutes at Kingstown, but only a delay of twenty minutes was allowed at Limerick Junction. He asked the Postmaster-General to see that there was uniformity in the time allowed for the delay of trains, so that the mail service might be carried out more effectively.
§ MR. ALFRED DAVIES (Carmarthen Boroughs), referring to an item of £4,660 for outward New York Saturday mails, stated that this item related to the Cunard system, and he therefore presumed that he was in order in discussing the Cunard Mail Service. It must be admitted that we had not a good mail service as regards speed of delivery from this side to New York. We had not taken advantage of the best means at our hands. On the North German Lloyd and other lines they had post offices on board, and the mails were sorted before arriving at New York. By this means, when those steamers arrived in New York the mails were delivered much quicker than those by the Cunard Line. On the latter line there was no means of sorting the letters, and the mails were forwarded to the Central Office in New York on arrival, whereas the mails by those lines which sorted the letters en route were forwarded to their respective post offices, and thereby delivered some hours earlier. He had taken the trouble to get from the Postmaster of New York a statement giving the date and hours of arrival and hours of delivery at New York of the mails by the Cunard Line and also those by steamers with travelling sorting offices on board. This statement showed that there was a good deal of delay in the deliveries through the sorting not 389 being done on board the Cunard Line. He had forwarded this statement to the Postmaster-General when he was representative in the House of the Postmaster. It was hardly fair to British owners that this should be so. He felt that British owners should receive every advantage in these days of keen competition. More especially was this sorting arrangement necessary in the case of the Cunard Company, as their steamers as a rule arrived on Saturday, the day on which the outgoing mail steamer sailed. He had himself suffered a good deal of inconvenience in New York through this delay in the delivery of the Saturday's mail, as it had been the sole cause of his being unable to reply to correspondence by the outgoing steamer of that day. The next mail steamer generally left New York four days later, so the urgency of this question was manifest. He appealed to the Postmaster, whom he felt sure was anxious to have an arrangement up to-date, to take this matter up. He looked for a satisfactory reply, in which event he would not support the reduction proposed.
§ MR. AUSTEN CHAMBERLAINsaid the question of the mail services to the western islands of Scotland had come before the House on numerous occasions. He appreciated the remarks of the hon. Member for Inverness-shire, who had frankly expressed his knowledge of the difficulties with which the Post Office had to contend. These difficulties were very great indeed. Other Members who spoke on the same subject had shown no appreciation of what the Post Office had done or of the difficulties.
§ MR. WEIRI received many benefits for the Western Islands before the right hon. Gentleman became Postmaster-General, and therefore I did not think it necessary to thank him for favours which I received from other hands.
§ MR. AUSTEN CHAMBERLAINsaid it was worth while to get that assurance from the hon. Member. If hon. Members who complained had been in his position they could not have done more than he had done. He thought the principles which ought to guide the Post Office in these matters were 390 common property in all quarters of the House. They all recognised that the primary duty of the Post Office was to convey the mails, and not to run steamers for passenger excursions or for cargo. They considered that in making arrangements for the carriage of the mails they ought as far as they could, without unduly trespassing outside their proper sphere of influence, and without involving an undue burden on the taxpayers, to endeavour to make the mail service as useful as possible. The hon. Member for Ross-shire and the hon. Member for Orkney had said that in dealing with remote districts with a scattered population, the Post Office authorities ought not to limit their consideration of the facilities to be provided to the question of the revenue that could be secured. What the Post Office did in regard to these remote districts was to spend part of the money made in the large centres of population in providing postal facilities for them. The revenue derived from the conveyance of correspondence to and from the remote districts went but a small way to meet the cost, and the only question for the Post Office was the amount they ought to pay for that service. He was glad to hear both the hon Member for Orkney and the hon. Member for Inverness-shire acknowledge that the subsidies paid by the Post Office with regard to certain services were good and ample, and they were supported by the hon. Member for South Tipperary in regard to the service from Holyhead to Kingstown. The real difficulty in regard to the Western Islands was one which was known to all Members who were acquainted with the district. It was that the service of boats was practically a monopoly in the hands of one firm, who, by their power of controlling business and by the fact that they and they alone, could offer to traders the facilities which traders must have, were really in a position, he would not say to impose any terms on the Post Office, but to resist some petitions which he should think might reasonably be accepted if there were a little healthy competition. He did not himself think that the service was carried on with the enterprise and vigour which were necessary to a successful undertaking, 391 and he did not believe that it could be maintained indefinitely under present conditions. All he could say for the Post Office was that they would gladly take advantage of a better service if they could get one. When the hon. Member for Ross-shire came to him on the subject he frankly pointed out the difficulty in which the Post Office found themselves and he invited him to use his influence with railway companies and shipping firms with the view to inducing them to start a rival service. The hon. Member went to the North British Railway Company, the Highland Railway Company, to traders, and to landlords, and he came back empty-handed. If none of these people would look at the question of starting a rival service, he must not blame the Post Office if they could not bear the whole cost of doing so. He was very much in the same position with regard to the mails to Orkney. There he would gladly give a better service if he could obtain one at a reasonable cost. The price they had to pay now was out of all porportion to the revenue derived from the service, and he had not seen the opportunity of getting a better one at any price which he could look at. He had not had his attention called to the services between Kirkwall and Thurso, and Shetland and the Fair Isle until now, but he would look into these matters. The irregularities in the Irish mail train service, of which the hon. Member for South Tipperary had complained, were now receiving consideration. The delays were in some measure due to the abnormal pressure of traffic on the days when the American mails were carried.
§ MR. CULLINANsaid the American mails came one day in the week, but the missing of the branch line trains occurred as frequently as four days a week.
§ MR. AUSTEN CHAMBERLAINsaid he was aware it was not all owing to the American mails, but that was one of the difficulties. He thought it might be possible to meet the difficulty. In regard to the service generally the Post Office authorities did their utmost to secure punctuality and despatch in the running of mail trains, but their powers over the railway companies were not so drastic as some hon. Members seemed to imagine.
§ Motion by leave, withdrawn.
§ Original Question again proposed.
§ SIR JOHN LENG (Dundee)called attention to the mail services between the United Kingdom and the United States. During the past winter there had been more complaints than for many winters past, of the slowness of the boats which had been put on for the services. On seventeen occasions the boats crossing westwards had taken more than ten days, while owing to the careful selection by the Department at Washington none of the boats coming eastward had even once taken that length of time. This showed that there was not the same watchfulness on the part of the postal authorities at home as in America, in the despatch of the mails. Slow boats had been put on and kept on the passage for a much greater length of time than in previous years. So much was this the case—he regretted it very much from the point of view of the prestige of our mercantile marine—that those who desired to have communications delivered with ordinary rapidity now almost invariably selected the German boats for sending their letters. The British lines should keep up their speed, instead of slowing down as they had been doing. Some time ago there was considerable excitement as to the transfer of several British companies to an American interest. He regretted to say that it was the boats of the companies whose interests had been transferred to the other side of the Atlantic that were most to be complained of in this respect. Although there were differences of opinion with regard to the policy of giving an increased subsidy to the Cunard Company, many heard with satisfaction of the arrangement which had been made with that Company to put first-class boats of the greatest speed on that passage. He asked the right hon. Gentleman whether he was in a position to state if other arrangements had been made with the Cunard Company, if the new vessels were contracted for, and if their construction was to be proceeded with. He did not wish in any way to reflect upon the Post Office further than to say that there was room for more attention being paid to the selection of the boats which carried the mails in winter.
§ MR. ALFRED DAVIESsaid he wished to suggest the institution of a travelling sorting office on the Atlantic passage, but he would save the time of the House by not speaking again on the subject, as he understood the Postmaster-General would now reply to his recent speech on this subject in the discussion just closed.
§ MR. AUSTEN CHAMBERLAINsaid he could assure the hon. Member for Dundee that it was his desire to use British ships in carrying British mails for the benefit of British trade, but the Post Office were bound at times to employ foreign ships. He believed that the mail service to which the hon. Member had referred had not been altogether satisfactory this winter. Too many of the fast boats had been laid up, and they had been too much dependent on the slower boats of the White Star Line for the Wednesday mail service. The new agreement with the Cunard Company was still matter of negotiation between the Government and the Company, and only that morning he had been dealing with proposed mail clauses for incorporation in the contract. He hoped they should come to an agreement soon, and, in accordance with the promise given by the Prime Minister, the House of Commons would have an opportunity of discussing it. While negotiations were proceeding he trusted the Committee would not expect him to make any further statement on the subject. The hon. Member for Carmarthen was anxious that arrangements should be made for a travelling Post Office on the Atlantic-passage so that the mails might be sorted on shipboard. He believed he was right in saying that very little would be gained by such an arrangement, at all events as 394 regarded the mails coming from America to this country. We could deal so very rapidly with the mails when they arrived on this side that very little time would be saved by a travelling Post Office on shipboard. It was not quite the same as regarded the voyage to the other side, and it was quite true that the mails on the outward voyage would be able to be dealt with more rapidly than under present conditions. From time to time the Post Office had made inquiry as to what rates would be charged for accommodation on board these large fast steamers. Of course the accommodation required would be very considerable and very expensive in the fast liners; but neither his predecessors nor himself had yet seen any compensating advantages which would accrue from the great increase of expense involved. He was trying to find out whether in connection with the new contract some arrangement could be made for a Post Office of the kind. Hitherto he had not been successful, but the negotiations were not yet concluded, and he could promise the hon. Gentleman that he would not lose sight of the matter.
§ MR. ALFRED DAVIESasked whether the Postmaster-General could inform the Committee what space would be required on shipboard for a travelling Post Office and what would be the extra expense
§ MR. AUSTEN CHAMBERLAINsaid he could not give any figures.
§ MR. J. CALDWELL (Lanarkshire, Mid.)said he wished to refer to the India and China mails and the slow speed of the British vessels. The P. & O. had perhaps the slowest mail steamers which went either to India, China, or Australia. The 395 speed was only twelve and a half knots, and any one could see that such a slow rate was altogether inconsistent with modern requirements. It was much less than that of the German boats, and the reason was that the P. & O. obtained such a large subsidy from the Post Office that they were able practically to drive every competitor out of the field. The P. & O. received a subsidy of £245,000 for the India and China mails, and £85,000 for the Australian service. In addition to that the P. & O. Company got £12,000 to £13,000 from the Admiralty under the absurd view that practically every mail steamer should be put on the list of armed cruisers, whether they were suitable or not for the purpose. The result was that the Admiralty were saddled with slow-going vessels. That was why the two new Cunard steamers were to be built to be equal to the German quick mail vessels. So far as speed was concerned, the British mail steamships were greatly behind those of other countries, and he was glad that the matter was to be dealt with by the building of two new swift vessels for the Atlantic passage. At the present moment we were sending our mails to Peking viâ Shanghai. The P. & O. boats took thirty-two days to go to Shanghai, and other six days were consumed in forwarding the mails up to Peking. Now, letters were being delivered within nineteen days by the Siberian railway. He understood that the contract with the P. & O. Company expired within two years, and he hoped that the Postmaster-General would, in considering the renewal of any contract, take into view the altered circumstances of the case. When the railway through Manchuria was in fair working order, 396 the mails could also be sent to Japan in nineteen days. Germany was our great competitor in trade with the Far East, and if she could send her letters in nineteen days, whereas ours took forty days, it was obvious that that was not a position in which this country should be allowed to remain. In 1867 the amount of the mail contract for India and China was £450,000 a year, and the speed was slow. Ten years later, a new contract was entered into at the reduced rate of £360,000, and the speed was increased. Ten years later the contract was renewed at £265,000, while the speed was again increased. It had been long ago pointed out that while the speed increased, the less was the subsidy given. Quite naturally so; because at first the trade between this country and India was comparatively small. But the trade doubled within twenty years, and in order to cater for that traffic, the P. & O. Company were compelled to increase the speed of their first-class ships. The P. & O. Company had a capital of £2,300,000, and the amount which the Government paid that Company in subsidies would cover a dividend of 15 per cent. on their capital stock. That gave the P. & O. Company an enormous power over every other competitor. The P. & O. Company came to an arrangement with the German and French Companies, whereby the Bombay trade was left in the hands of the P. & O. Company, allowing therefore, the German and the French shipping companies to beat the British in the China trade. There was no reason whatever why British vessels to India and China should be slower than the vessels of any other country. A year and a half ago he was on board a P. & O. 397 steamer on the China station, and the captain found he was going too fast, and accordingly slowed down to half speed so as not to get into port that night but the next morning. The reason was that the contract was coming near to an end, and that if the Post Office asked for increased speed the Company might ask for an increased subsidy. It was of the greatest importance to have speedy communication between this country and India; and it was because of the slow speed of the P. & O. steamers that a great impetus had been given to the German Baghdad railway route to the East. The Postmaster-General should press the P. & O. Company to give a greater speed than at present. It was perfectly true that they gave the speed provided for by their contract. When that contract was being entered into Sir Thomas Sutherland stated in the House that there need be no fear of the speed of other lines, because the P. & O. Company would be compelled by the competition to keep up with the increases of speed on the other lines. That prediction, however, had not been fulfilled. When he was in India eighteen month ago he found complaints universal against the monopoly and the high rates of the P. & O. Company. Now, we had a fleet which was practically doing nothing in peace times. Why should not our fast cruisers and scouts be utilised for carrying the mails? He ventured to say that if a contract were offered to other people than the P. & O. Company they would build vessels to steam eighteen or twenty knots an hour for the mail service.
He would like to know whether the Postmaster-General had made any arrangements for carrying letters by the Siberian Railway to China. At present letters took nineteen days to Peking by that route, but the time would be shortened immediately 398 when the railway round the great Lake Baikal was completed, and the permanent way was improved. At present the speed of the railway service between St. Petersburg and Irkutsk was nineteen miles an hour, and after that fifteen and a half miles an hour, but it was obvious that when the improvements in the line were made the speed all through would be increased, and the time for the journey to Peking reduced to nine or ten days, which would also be the period for a service to Japan viâ the Manchurian Railway. It was to the interest of this country to have the speed of the mail steamers to India increased to nineteen or twenty knots per hour at once, and if that were done cold water would be thrown on the projected Baghdad railway, and we should have an all-British service mail between British ports. He did not mention these matters from any point of hostility to the Government. The contract was there when the Postmaster-General came into office; but he would point out that on every occasion since 1867, whenever the contract was renewed the amount was always a great deal less. In 1867 the Government paid a subsidy of £450,000 a year. Ten years afterwards the amount was reduced to £360,000, and ten years after that there was a further reduction of £100,000. It was obvious, therefore, that the contract should be for a short period, and that they should not allow any shipping company to secure a monopoly. At present officers proceeding to India had to travel second class, because the fares were so high. That was because the Company had a monopoly as the result of the subsidy paid to it. He hoped that the Postmaster-General would be able to give the Committee some information with regard to the mail service to the East, and how the matter was likely to be dealt with.
§ MR. AUSTEN CHAMBERLAINsaid he agreed that this was one of the most important mail services. Notice had been given to terminate the existing contract, under the provisions of the contract, in order that the Government might consider what arrangements might be made for the future. It was a service in which Australasia and the Government of India and our colonial dependencies in the Far East were interested as well as ourselves, and they would have to be consulted. They, as well as the Post Office at home, shared the desire of the hon. Gentleman that in the new contract we should obtain greater speed at a lower price. A great number of questions, some of them of great importance, arose under this contract; and he proposed to refer them for consideration, in accordance with precedent, to an inter-Departmental Committee, in which the other offices concerned, the India Office, Colonial Office, Admiralty, and others, would be represented, as well as the Post Office; but the Committee would not expect him to lay down any hard and fast lines at that stage. Wherever it was possible he preferred to send British mails by British routes; but if the Siberian Railway offered a regular service which was much more expeditious than we could obtain by sea, he had no doubt we should be obliged to make use of it. Communications were now passing with the view of seeing on what terms the Siberian train service would be at our command for the purpose of sending mails to Peking and the Far East. The Government had not yet been able to come to any agreement with the authorities, and he was therefore not 400 able to make any more definite statement on the subject. It was suggested that the Post Office followed some foolish notions of its own in regard to the services to the Admiralty to be covered by the mail subsidy. It was entirely for the Admiralty to say what ships were required as armed cruisers or mercantile cruisers. The only desire of the Post Office in this matter was to make the service as useful as it could be made to the nation in all respects, and the Committee would rightly blame them if in making a mail contract involving payment of a considerable subsidy they did not consult the Admiralty as to any conditions they would like to have inserted. Nothing was paid for ships for naval purposes which the Admiralty did not think worth having. Messrs. Holt's offer, which had been referred to, was to build for a portion of the service a special class of ships, carrying nothing but mails and the attendants. Whether arrangements of that kind would be very fruitful, and what margin of staff they would have to allow for sickness on the voyages, the Committee could form as good a guess as he could; but an inter-Departmental Committee had come to the conclusion that it would be undesirable to entertain this service, because it would be useful for the mails only and afford no correlative or collateral advantage such as our ordinary mail services did, and would be more expensive. There were many questions which would have to be carefully considered before a new contract was made; and he had little doubt, if they could not fulfil all the expectations that were entertained in some quarters, that at all events they would be able to secure a 401 better service than it was possible to obtain when the present contract was entered into five years ago.
§ MR. HENNIKER HEATONsaid he wished to submit a point of view which ought to engage the attention of the Committee. Up to 1861, the mail subsidies were always charged to the Admiralty; and he thought the Committee would agree with him that the whole of the mail service to India should not now be charged to the Post Office. Mail subsidies were given for four reasons; first, to encourage shipbuilding; second, to maintain the British dominion of the seas; third, to provide an auxiliary naval force; and fourth, to carry the mails. The Committee, he hoped, would agree with him that the subsidies should be put on a proper basis and not charged entirely to the Post Office. As regarded the American mail service, 3s. per lb. was paid to British ships, and only 1s. 8d. to foreign ships. The Committee should be quite honest, and at least not charge the Post Office with the extra 1s. 4d. That should be charged to some other Department. With reference to the P. & O. contract, the Company could not be expected to do more than they were doing at present. They were now more than fulfilling their contract with several days to spare, but he hoped his right hon. friend would be able to get better terms. But did his right hon. friend expect competition? Did he think he would secure competition against their astute friend, Sir Thomas Sutherland. Although the P. & O. 402 fulfilled their contract to the letter, the result of that contract was to practically put away all British competition. Only the other day the British Consul in Japan reported that passengers were dissatisfied with the P. & O. and were travelling by the German and French steamers. A very large proportion of Australians also travelled by the French and German vessels, which supplied the only competition to the P. & O. That was the state of affairs; and he thought it was utterly useless to expect that they would ever be able to get competition against the P. & O.
§ MR. BUCHANAN (Perthshire, E.)said he wished to know whether the Departmental Committee which the right hon. Gentleman proposed to set up would merely consider the renewal of the contract with the P. & O., or would it have the power to consider generally the question of the better conveyance of the mails to India, Australia, and China. The P. & O. had had a monopoly for a great number of years, and had neglected the China service in order to maintain the monopoly between this country and Bombay. They were a trading company, and no one could blame them for that; but it was almost inconceivable that during the principal part of the passenger season they did not run a weekly service to Bombay. It was impossible to get a weekly service from London to Bombay without a change of steamers. That ought not to be. A company enjoying such a large subsidy ought not to put its passengers to such inconvenience. For his part, he thought that they should do away with the subsidy altogether. They did not pay a subsidy to carry the mails to Cape Colony.
§ MR. AUSTEN CHAMBERLAINsaid that the difference there was that the Cape Government made the contract, and the Home Government paid the Cape Government. The Cape Government paid the subsidy.
§ MR. BUCHANANsaid he thought he was right in stating that in former days they did not pay any subsidy for the conveyance of the mails to the Cape. Certainly, the postal service to the Cape was a great deal better than the service to India. If the whole matter had been thrown open to competition during the last twenty years they would probably have had a much better service to India than they had at present. He did not think that the P. & O. Company had any claim on the consideration of the Postmaster-General. Again, he would ask whether the Departmental Committee would consider the whole question de novo or would merely negotiate with the P. & O. for the renewal of the contract.
§ MR. AUSTEN CHAMBERLAINsaid the Committee would not accept any offer until they had reported to him. They would consider any offers for an alternative service that might be submitted to them, and that might appear to them to be desirable.
§ MR. BUCHANANasked if an alternative service would be invited.
§ MR. AUSTEN CHAMBERLAINsaid that he would be delighted to hear from any company which was prepared to make an offer, without sending out invitations.
§ MR. CALDWELLsaid the usual practice of the Post Office was to give notice to terminate a contract two years beforehand, and to invite tenders. He thought the Postmaster-General ought now to invite tenders from companies willing to tender, in order that they might be able to make the necessary preparations. In any event, he did not think the Postmaster-General would have any difficulty in getting an extension of the contract for one year, as the new contract would certainly not be as favourable as the existing contract. They were in this position with regard to the mail service to the East, particularly to China—the P. & O. only supplied a fortnightly mail; the Germans and the French also supplied a fortnightly mail each. This country was, therefore, in a position to send six mails to China every month. They paid no subsidy for four of these mails, although they paid £245,000 a year to the P. & O. for the other two. It was only the subsidy given by the Government that enabled the P. & O. to pay 15 per cent. dividend.
§ And, it being Midnight, the Chairman left the Chair to make his Report to the House.
§ Committee report Progress; to sit again upon Wednesday.