§ (Considered in Committee.)
§ (In the Committee.)
§ [MR. W. LOWTHER (Cumberland, Penrith) in the Chair.]
1149§ Motion made and Question proposed, "That it is expedient to authorise the payment, out of moneys to be provided by Parliament, of a share of the expenses of the Permanent Commission and of any Expenses in connection with the attendance of delegates at the Commission, which may be payable under any Act of the present session to make provision for giving effect to a Convention signed the 5th day of March, 1902, in relation to sugar. That the duties payable under Section 2 of The Finance Act, 1901, or any Act amending the same, shall be taken on the delivery of any article from any factory or refinery, which in pursuance of any Act of the present session is made subject to the supervision of the Commissioners of Customs or Commissioners of Inland Revenue, and shall be the same as those payable on the like articles on importation."—(Mr. Chancellor of the Exchequer.)
§ MR. LOUGH (Islington, W.)said it was extremely difficult to criticise the Resolution on hearing it read. This Resolution illustrated the impropriety of the House being asked to consider proposals which did not appear on the Paper. There was no amount of money mentioned. It was a Resolution pledging them to find the expenses of the Permanent Commission. Which was the most humiliating body they had ever taken part in. A certain amount of money had been paid to the gentleman who attended the Conference.
* THE CHAIRMANI do not think the character and ability of the gentleman who attended the Conference can be raised on this Resolution.
§ MR. LOUGHsaid that would certainly arise a large question. The latter part of the Resolution seemed to be like another Finance Bill. He supposed the Chancellor of the Exchequer understood it, but certainly none of the rest of them did. It seemed to him a strong Resolu
§ tion, and it would be better that they should postpone their criticisms until they saw it on the Paper.
§ MR. DALZIEL (Kirkcaldy Burghs)said he thought the Government were aware that they were only beginning a pretty protracted fight. He understood that if they adopted the Resolution now they would have an opportunity of discussing it on another occasion.
§ * SIR CHARLES DILKE (Gloucestershire, Forest of Dean)asked what further opportunity there would be for discussing the Resolution.
§ * THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER (Mr. RITCHIE, Croydon)said there would be a Report stage of the Resolution. The first part of the Resolution spoke for itself. The second part was simply this. The present system was to levy duty on sugar when imported. When the new system came into force the duty would be levied on all refined sugar coming out of bond.
§ MR. LOUGHsaid if they did not put the factories in bond there would be no reason to change the mode of collecting the duty in this country. If the Chancellor of the Exchequer would consider the matter fully, he might find a way of carrying out the requirements of the Convention without putting the factories in bond.
§ * MR. RITCHIEsaid they could not possibly levy duty on the raw sugar and comply with the Convention. If they were to levy duty upon sugar as it came in they would have to assume how much of it would he refined sugar. Instead of that they proposed to levy duty on the refined sugar coming out. There could be no doubt as to what was refined and what was not refined.
§ Question put.
§ Committee divided:—Ayes, 89: Noes, 29. (Division List No. 205.)
1151| AYES | ||
| Arkwright, John Stanhope | Baird, John George Alexander | Banbury, Sir Frederick George |
| Arnold-Forster, Hugh O | Balcarres, Lord | Bathurst. Hon. Allen Benj. |
| Atkinson, Right Hon. John | Balfour, Rt. Ho. A. J. (Man'r | Bentinck, Lord Henry C. |
| Bain, Colonel James Robert | Balfour. Rt. Hn. G. W. (Leeds | Bigwood, James |
| Blundell, Colonel Henry | Hall, Edward Marshall | Sackville, Col. S. G. Stopford |
| Cavendish, V. C. W. (Derbyshire | Hatch, Ernest Frederick G. | Seely, Maj. J. E. B(Isle of Wight |
| Chamberlain, Rt. Hn. A.(Wore | Hermon-Hodge, Sir Robert T. | Sharpe, William Edward T. |
| Cochrane, Hon. T. H. A. E. | Lambton, Hon. Fredk. Wm. | Shaw-Stewart, M. H. (Renfrew |
| Colomb, Sir John Chas. Ready | Law, Andrew Bonar (Glasgow) | Smith, Abel H. (Hertford, East |
| Corbett, A. Cameron (Glasg.) | Lawrence, Wm. F. (Liverpool) | Smith, Jas. Parker (Lanarks.) |
| Craig, Charles C. (Antrim, S.) | Lawson, John Grant(Yorks. NR | Smith, Hn. W. F. D. (Strand) |
| Cranborne, Viscount | Legge, Col. Hon. Heneage | Stanley, Lord (Lancs.) |
| Crossley, Rt. Hon. Sir Savile | Loder, Gerald Walter Erskine | Stirling-Maxwell, Sir Jn. M. |
| Dickson, Charles Scott | Long, Rt. Hn. W. (Bristol, S. | Stunt, Hon. Humphry Napier |
| Douglas, Rt. Hon. A. Akers | Lowe, Francis William | Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester) |
| Doxford, Sir William Theodore | Loyd, Archie Kirkman | Tomlinson, Sir Wm. Edw. M |
| Elliot, Hon. A. Ralph Douglas | Lyttelton, Hon. Alfred | Tritton, Charles Ernest |
| Faber, E. B. (Hants, W.) | Macdona, John Cumming | Valentia, Viscount |
| Faber, George Denison (York) | M'Arthur, Charles (Liverpool) | Walrond, Rt. Hn. Sir Wm. H. |
| Fellowes, Hon. Ailwyn Ed. | Morrell, George Herbert | Wilson, John (Glasgow) |
| Fergusson, Rt Hn Sir J. (Manc'r | Morrison, James Archibald | Wilson-Todd, Sir W. H.(Yorks. |
| Fielden, Edward Brocklehurst | Morton, Arthur H. Aylmer | Wodehouse, Rt. Hn. E. R. (Bath. |
| Finch, Rt. Hon. George H. | Murray, Rt. Hn A Graham(Bute | Worsley-Taylor, Hry. Wilson |
| Finlay, Sir Robert Bannatyne | Murray, Charles J. (Coventry) | Wortley, Rt. Hon. C. B. Stuart- |
| Fisher, William Hayes | Percy, Earl | Wyndham-Quin, Major W. H. |
| Forster, Henry William | Plummer, Walter R. | |
| Fyler, John Arthur | Pretyman, Ernest George | TELLERS FOR THE AYES— |
| Gardner, Ernest | Pryce-Jones, Lt.-Col. Edward | Sir Alexander Acland |
| Gordon, J. (Londonderry, S.) | Purvis, Robert | Hood and Mr. Anstruther. |
| Goschen, Hon. George Joachim | Reid, James (Greenock) | |
| Gray, Ernest (West Ham) | Renshaw, Sir Charles Bine | |
| Grenfell, William Henry | Ritchie, Rt Hon. Chas. Thomson | |
| NOES | ||
| Bolton, Thomas Dolling | Hutchinson, Dr. Charles Fredk. | Robertson, Edmund (Dundee) |
| Caldwell, James | Jacoby, James Alfred | Russell, T. W. |
| Channing, Francis Allston | Jones, William (Canarvonshire | Shipman, Dr. John G. |
| Cremer, William Randal | Kilbride, Denis | Sullivan, Donal |
| Dalziel, James Henry | Lough, Thomas | Warner, Thos. Courtenay T. |
| Dilke, Rt. Hon. Sir Charles | Landon, W. | Weir,.James Galloway |
| Emmett, Alfred | Mitchell, Edw. (Fermanagh, N. | White, Luke (York, E.R.) |
| Griffith, Ellis J. | Murphy, John | |
| Hayne, Rt. Hon. Charles Seale | O'Brien, P. J. (Tipperary, N.) | TELLERS FOR THE NOES— |
| Hayter, Rt Hon Sir Arthur D. | O'Mara, James | Mr. John Sinclair and |
| Horniman, Frederick John | Partington, Oswald | Mr. Robert Spencer. |
§ Resolved, That it is expedient to authorise the payment, out of moneys to be provided by Parliament, of a share of the expenses of the Permanent Commission and of any expenses in connection with the attendance of delegates at the Commission, which may be payable under any Act of the present session to make provision for giving effect to a Convention signed the 5th day of March, 1902, in relation to Sugar. That the duties payable under section two of The Finance Act, 1901, or any Act amending the same, shall be taken on the delivery of any article from any factory or refinery, which in pursuance of any Act of the present session is made subject to the supervision of the Commissioners of Customs or Commissioners of Inland Revenue, and shall be the same as those payable on the like articles on importation.
§ Resolution to be reported upon Monday next.