THE SCHEDULES. (Hansard, 8 July 1903)

§ MR. WYNDHAM
said that various suggestions had been made as to the proper allocation of the bonus. Those who desired to see justice done in all cases had approached the question from different points of view. He had attempted a rough-and-ready method of approaching a difficult question. The Committee did not know the particular circumstances of each transaction. Perhaps, therefore, the better plan was to mote out the bonus on equal terms all round—viz., 12 per cent. addition to the money advanced on each transaction. It was to be hoped that all those who had to deal with the money and the disposition of the bonus would take into account the claims of those whose co-operation was necessary if land purchase was to be a success. He believed that in making this proposal he was doing justice in the case.

§ MR. DILLON
said he fully recognised that it was impossible to discuss fully this very important matter at that period of the evening. Of course the subject was not closed, but would remain open at the Report stage, and he urged the right hon. Gentleman not to close his mind on this subject. The hon. Member for Waterford had an Amendment on the Paper proposing a sliding scale as the most just way of disposing of the bonus. His own plan was that a bonus should be given in the shape of three years' purchase of the rental to every landlord who sold. He would illustrate the absurd results which would follow from the Chief Secretary's scheme of distributing all round a bonus of 12 per cent. on the money advanced. Take the case of an estate in the province of Ulster or Minister where the purchase-money would amount to twenty years' purchase of the rental; the landlord would obtain a bonus of £12,000, but on a similar estate in the province of Connaught, whore the holdings were poor, the purchase-money would only be fifteen years' purchase of the rental, and the landlord would obtain a bonus of only £9,000. That showed the absurdity of the Chief Secretary's plan. The only justification for the bonus was to fill up the gap between what the 119 tenants could afford to pay, and what the landlords would receive for selling. Under the Chief Secretary's proposal, the bulk of the money would go to the richest parts of Ireland, and the lesser amount to the poorest parts. The injustice of that was manifest. He could hardly conceive that the Government would persist in that course, and he respectfully hoped that they would re-consider this question, which would be again raised on Report.

§ MR. WHITLEY (Halifax)
said he would urge upon the Chief Secretary to re-consider this matter before the Report stage from the point of view of the general taxpayer. Hitherto, those who represented the general taxpayer had cheerfully acquiesced in the payment of the bulk, at any rate, of this bonus of £12,000,000, distinctly on the understanding that it was to facilitate the poorer class of Irish land lords in transferring their estates to their tenants; but if the bonus was to be distributed according to the new scheme, it would mean that a larger share of the bonus would be given to the rich landlords and the smaller share to the poor landlords.

§ MR. WYNDHAM
said he thought the two speeches to which they had just listened illustrated the difficulty of dealing with the bonus. The fact was, land purchase in Ireland was not simply a matter between landlord and tenant; it was much more complex. He had suggested originally that help should be given in a larger measure, not to poor landlords, but to small properties, which was a very different thing, as the man with the large property was sometimes poorer than the man with the small property, because his mortgages pressed more heavily upon him than the man with the small property. The hon. and learned Member for York and the hon. Member for Leicester thought that land purchase would not be a success unless the land-agents were dealt with. The fact that there were three or four points of view from which the distribution of the bonus might be approached, proved, at any rate, the necessity for the bonus, and for the life of him he could not hit on a better suggestion, in view of the various difficulties which existed, than that the bonus 120 should be dealt out equally all round' and that all parties should treat each other with reason and consideration.

§ MR. T. P. O'CONNOR
said he wished to offer a word of warning to the Chief Secretary. The Irish Members did not think the arrangement the right hon. Gentleman proposed was satisfactory, because, in their opinion, it violated the very principle he himself had laid down—viz., the principle of equality. In other words, by the right hon Gentleman's scheme, much was given to him that had, and little was given to him that had not. He thought that the bonus ought to be an inducement to the landlord to give fair terms to the tenants, and not be an inducement to them to make better terms out of their tenants. He considered that the bonus under the Chief Secretary's scheme would press most hardly on the poorer estates and on the poorer tenants. It must be understood that if they allowed this Amendment to pass through that evening, it was not because they approved of it.