HC Deb 23 October 1902 vol 113 cc687-705

(9.0.) MR. DEVLIN (Kilkenny, N.) moved the adjournment of the House for the purpose of discussing a definite matter of urgent public importance—viz., "the riotous proceedings on Sunday last at the Custom House steps in Belfast, and the neglect and refusal of the Government to take steps to prohibit the holding of such meetings on Government property in that city." In making this Motion he disclaimed any desire to display religious bigotry or Party feeling. He could claim for the Party to which he had the honour to belong that they were guided and inspired by the desire to allay religious passions, and in taking the action he did that night he was animated solely by a desire for the peace and good government of Belfast. On Sunday last a scene of indescribable disorder and tumult took place on the Custom House steps in Belfast. That House had heard of the Custom House steps before. It was the arena in which the bigots and supporters of the present Government were engaged on Sunday after Sunday in using the most ribald and blasphemous language, not only about the Catholics and the Catholic Church, but against that portion of the Protestant Church whose ritual did not suit their æsthetic tastes. He might mention to the House that the Protestant Association of Belfast had been broken up into two parties—the Sloanites and the Trewites. The Sloanites were represented by the hon. Member for South Belfast, and the Trewites would later on be represented in that House, when Mr. Trew took the place of the hon. Member for North Belfast. There were two leaders in the camp. There was the hon. Member for South Belfast, and there was Mr. A. Trew, and the latter gentleman thought he was entitled to occupy the place now occupied by the hon. Member for South Belfast. The hon. Member for South Belfast, taking advantage of Mr. Trew's absence in one of His Majesty's prisons, entered into the arena, and, in the words of the right hon. Member for North Armagh, "climbed on the back of Mr. Trew into Parliament and then kicked Mr. Trew from under him." The be-all and end-all of the purposes for which the organisation was carried on to the detriment of the public order and peace of the city was the collection. That was at the bottom of the blasphemy and the ribaldry, and again quoting the hon. Member for North Armagh, "the louder the language and the more vituperative the oratory the larger the collections would be." The Chief Secretary, instead of expressing his willingness to take steps to put an end to the scenes of disorder, had in an airy and jaunty manner said the ordinary procedure was adopted, and declined to assent to the railing in of the steps, so that such meetings should be no longer permissible. The Rev. Mr. Peoples, a Protestant clergyman, settled at Ballymacarrett and exercised his legitimate religious functions there, but that did not, please the gentlemen who met at Customs House steps; and inspired by the orations of Mr. Trew and Mr. Sloan, at the close of the demonstration the audience filled themselves with drink at the nearest public house, and marched to Mr. Peoples church, broke his windows, and locked him up in his church for nearly three hours. A mob of 5,000 followed him to his lodgings and kept him there two days. The result of it all was Mr. Peoples, who had been engaged in doing good work among the poor of Ballymacarrett, was compelled to leave Belfast, and was now engaged in missionary work in England. He invited the Chief Secretary the next time he attended a Unionist banquet in Belfast to visit Mr. Peoples' church, where every pane of glass was broken, and which remained standing as a monument of the love of civil and religious liberty. Mr. Trew, who had been twelve months in jail for inciting to religious riot, actually stated that during the week he would apply to the Commissioner of police, and the next week he would have a force of men there to keep order. Evidently this gentleman believed that he could get this assistance, because the Government granted him the Customs House steps as a platform from which every Sunday to rouse the passions of a most degraded portion of the community, and turn Belfast into a bear-garden. This pillar of the Unionist Party in Ireland, on a recent Sunday, said that if he had the chance he would make sausages of the Lord Chief Baron if he would come to the Custom House steps. The right hon. Gentleman should be frank and tell the House that South Belfast had frightened him. The hon. Member for South Belfast had been returned against the official candidate of the Tory Party. He threatened that after the next general election he would come back with three other Members to support him; and instead of a Member of the philosophic calm and great experience of the right hon Gentleman the Member for West Belfast, the hon. Member would bring back one of the gentlemen who had added so many choice phrases to their political vocabulary. That was why the right hon. Gentleman was afraid. An honest, courageous Chief Secretary would say, "Let justice be done, though the heavens fall." A man who was not afraid of the rowdyism and the organised power of the forces which returned the hon. Member for South Belfast would say, "Well, if the Irish Members are being hunted throughout the land, if they are being driven out of their own court-houses, we will at least keep up a semblance of impartialitv." It used to be said that there were two Irelands—one the Ireland of the South and West, the other the Ireland of the North. Now there were three Irelands in the North—the Trewites, the Sloanites, and the Saundersonites. He trusted it would be an edifying spectacle to see the right hon. and gallant Gentleman the Member for North Armagh listening to the speeches of the hon. Member for South Belfast. He was not surprised that the right hon. Gentleman the Chief Secretary ran away from the Belfast Protestant Association. He was not aware whether the right hon. Gentleman had ever -received a military training; he knew that the right hon. and gallant Gentleman the Member for North Armagh had. The right hon. and gallant Gentleman came to Belfast to take part in the South Belfast election, but he could not get a platform on which to open his mouth—not even the Customs House steps. The right hon. and gallant Gentleman stated he would resign the Orange organisation if the hon. Member for South Belfast were returned. The right hon. and gallant Gentleman held very strong views on the war, but he did not go to the war. He had very strong views on the South Belfast election; he went there, and the attitude of the right hon. Gentleman reminded him of lines he had read— The colonel a gallant fighter was, In battle most delighting, He fled full soon on the 1st o' June, And bade the rest keep fighting. The fight was fought out, and the hon. Member for South Belfast now sat in the House of Commons; there was no railing round the Custom House steps; the scenes of turbulence and disorder which had disgraced Belfast for three years went on; additional factions were fighting out the battle, and disturbing the public weal of the city, and all because the wary Gentleman on the Treasury Bench thought it unwise to finally break away from the rowdies and organised blasphemers who had been the principal factors in maintaining the policy of ascendency in Ireland for centuries.

MR. O'SHEE (Waterford, W.)

formally seconded the Motion.

Motion made and Question proposed, "That this House do now adjourn—

*(9.35) MR. SLOAN (Belfast S.)

said he had very seldom enjoyed himself so much as he had during the last half hour. If the hon Gentleman was speaking on what he called an urgent matter of public importance, he himself must be of great importance in the hon. Gentleman's estimation, because he had not touched a little bit of the subject on which he moved the adjournment of the House, namely, the riot which was supposed to have taken place in Belfast last Sunday. The hon. Gentleman's speech was all about Sloanites, Trewities, and collections. But the hon. Gentleman forgot that he was sailing in that boat a great many years longer than he was; and the hon. Gentleman had yet to prove that he (Mr. Sloan) was sailing in that boat now. The hon. Gentleman made some scurrilous remarks about the right hon. and gallant Gentleman the Member for North Armagh, and his attitude in regard to the recent contest in South Belfast. He thought that when the hon. Gentleman did start his harangue he might at least have confined himself to the particular matter on which he had moved the adjournment; but like his confederate the hon. Member for South Down, when they happened to see the Member for South Belfast out of the House last night, they took the same opportunity to stab him in the: back. Conduct like that was becoming from Members on the Nationalist Benches. The demand was that the Government should rail in the Customs House steps. He had been in the habit of going to the Customs House steps for a good number of years, but he had seen more disorderliness and rowdyism in the House of Commons during the past week than he had ever seen on the Customs House steps. There was an old adage "Begin at Jerusalem." He would suggest to the Government, if they were to begin at all, it would be to the credit of the House and to the safety of Members of the Government that they should commence by railing in the Nationalist Benches. If that had been done the probability was that Mr. O'Donnell would not have been suspended. The Member for South Mayo was, however, of very little importance. He wanted to repudiate some of the magnificent charges made by his hon. friend. He had referred to two leaders. He had not told the House that he was one of them. He referred to a Protestant clergyman repudiating the proceedings at the Custom House steps. He did not tell the House that the same Protestant clergyman repudiated the notorious League with which he had the great honour of identifying himself as the United Irish League. He also suggested that the Government should put a stop to the language which was not pleasant to him, and undoubtedly not acceptable to those who followed him. He did not associate himself with any particular language which had been used at the Custom House steps. He had quite enough to do to be responsible for what his own tongue said. He would like, however, to point out that there had never been any of the individuals who had figured as speakers on the platform at the Custom House steps sent to gaol for boycotting or intimidation, for the simple reason that all loyal subjects of His Majesty King Edward VII. did not believe in that sort of work. They left boycotting to those who were better able to do it, because at the present time, in the estimation of the Nationalist Members, it was the popular thing to go to gaol. It always had the tendency to keep the pot boiling for them, for if the excitement and rowdyism were abated in the House, and there were not a few suspensions during the session, the funds that they looked after would be very small at the end of the year. But they knew how their funds came, and they knew when funds were required, and they came into the House for——


The hon. Member is developing an argument which is not relevant to the Motion.


said there had been so much talk about collections, so he thought he would have been in order in referring to those of hon. Members. He would have considered it would have been a matter of public importance if the hon. Gentleman had brought up the case of the late John Kensit. They would then have been identifying themselves with popular feeling, and would be working impartially in the interests of humanity and trying to get equal justice all round, independent of creed or doctrine. He had no hesitation in saying, so far as the Custom House steps were concerned, that if the hon. Member the first time he was in Belfast would take a walk round to the place he had invited the Chief Secretary to.


I was there and saw you there—


said then it was a wonder there was not a riot. If the same spirit animated the hon. Member there which animated him in this House undoubtedly there would have been. However, he just wanted to say on his own behalf that so far as he was personally' concerned he had no hesitation in saying that the question now before the House was meant to be an attack upon the Member who had been returned for South Belfast. [An HON. MEMBER: "We are glad to see you here."] He thought they might be glad to see him out before he went. He repeated that it was quite evident that the attack had been on the Member for South Belfast. [HON. MEMBERS: "No, no."] Well, he repeated that statement, and if it were imagined that any such attack made upon him there would in any way debar him from doing his duty as a loyal subject and a Protestant, those concerned in such an attack were labouring under a great mistake. The coupling of his name with others in the use of language which he deplored as much as any man was not only an injustice to him, but was ungentlemanly on the part of those who made the charges. He trusted that while he was in the House he should at least have an honourable opponent, and would have to listen no more to such scurrilous harangues as the one they had hoard that night. There had been a reference to a Mr. Flanagan, whom it was alleged the Irish Chief Secretary was responsible for sending to an asylum. Well, if the Irish Nationalists did not pursue a different course from what he had seen in the House of Commons during the past week, it seemed to him that the Irish Chief Secretary would have to build them an asylum. He advised the hon. Gentlemen on the Irish Benches to try and keep cool since they had had their say. The hon. Member had delivered an amusing harangue. The performance of the gentleman who were sent from the South and West of Ireland [HON. MEMBERS: "And the North."] were undoubtedly an amusing "paragraph" in the scenes of Parliamentary debate, and it would be monotonous, and undoubtedly almost drive them to wonder why they were in this House, if they had not a few of the orators belonging to the United Irish League to entertain them. The rest of the remarks of the hon. Gentleman did not apply to him, and he would content himself by treating the rest of the harangue with the utmost contempt.


said but for the fact that the Motion was one for the Adjournment of the House on a definite matter of urgent public importance, he should not have thought of intervening in the debate, which everyone had listened to with a considerable amount of satisfaction. There was in that House a pleasant custom of paying a tribute to the first speech an hon. Member made. That was often a mere custom; but he thought he would be carrying the whole House with him when he said that the hon. Gentleman to whom they had just listened, had earned such a tribute for the manly way in which he had made his appearance in that House, and for the self-restraint which he had shown under considerable provocation. But this was a Motion for the Adjournment of the House. That Motion raised two questions—one of fact, and one of policy. The question of fact consisted in the allegation that there was a riot on the Custom House steps at Belfast, last Sunday. There was no riot on the Custom House steps last Sunday. Some time ago an inhabitant of the city of Belfast was sent to prison for one year upon a charge of criminal conspiracy. When the sentence was over, he seemed to think he was thereby qualified and designated to represent an Irish constituency in that House, but the electors of South Belfast took a different view, and they returned the hon. Member to whom they had just listened with such satisfaction. When some minutes back the hon. Member who moved the Motion was descanting upon the effect of what he called the partiality of the Irish Government, he heard the hon. Member for Battersea almost groaning at the iniquities of the Irish Government. Was the hon. Member aware of the fact that Mr. Trew was sent to prison for a year for the crime of criminal conspiracy, and that none of the persons sentenced under the Criminal Law and Procedure Act were, or could be, sentenced to more than six months? [HON. MEMBERS: "Yes; but he was tried by jury."] The question of fact, then consisted in the allegation of riot. What happened was that Mr. Trew, who was not elected to Parliament, although he suffered imprisonment, resented that action, and last Sunday some of those who agreed with him were upon the Custom House steps. He understood there was cheering and groaning, but there was no hissing; no arrests were made by the police; there were no threats to disturb the peace and no threats as to any person's liberty or business or employment, and the matter was one which would have passed unnoticed in this House. As to the question of policy, ought they to rail in the Custom House steps at Belfast? The suggestion was that there had been more than enough of "railing" there already. The view had been advanced that the Custom House steps at Belfast ought to be railed in because those at Dublin were railed in. Well, such little knowledge as he possessed of Ireland had not led him—although he had spent the greater part of seven years in that country—to think that one of the characteristics of the Irish nation was a passion for symmetry. It was best to take the Custom Houses at Dublin and Belfast upon their separate merits. That at Dublin was railed in some years ago to prevent refuse and pieces of paper being left about the building, but there was ample space for meetings to be held outside the railings. At Belfast there were no railings, and he understood that, in order to vindicate the liberty of the subject, and the right of public speech, it was considered by hon. Gentlemen opposite to be the immediate duty of the Irish Government to put railings up. Well, the Irish Government had no intention of doing anything of the kind. His predecessors had stated so in 1899, and he stated it in 1901, and again the other day, and in order to settle this matter of urgent and public importance he would say he was still of the same opinion he expressed two days ago, and twice last year.

* MR. MACVEAGH (Down, S.)

regretted the Chief Secretary had adopted a tone that was absolutely unworthy of the occupant of the office he held. The allegation made was that not riots but riotous conduct had been indulged in, and that allegation was borne out by both the Orange newspapers of Belfast, whose reports of the proceedings were headed, "Riotous scenes at the Custom House steps. "The right hon. Gentleman had never given more complete proof of the fact that he knew very little about Ireland than when he stated that the Dublin Custom House steps were railed in because waste-paper was thrown upon them. A more ridiculous statement was never made by a representative man. Those steps were railed in because political meetings were being held there, and repeated protests were made against it being done. The hon. Member for South Belfast, in his entertaining speech, had contended that the Motion was intended as an attack upon him. Nothing was further from the thoughts of the Nationalist Members. They were delighted to see the hon. Member elected for South Belfast, because they recognised in him the first real representative the Orangemen of Ulster had ever had in the House of Commons. There were several Ulster representatives, some of them posing as Orangemen, but the House had never had the real article before. He was afraid, however, that the hon. Member's constituents would be somewhat disappointed at the character of their representative's maiden speech, as they had really believed that the first time the; hon. Member got up in the House of Commons it would be to impeach the Pope, or to submit a Motion ordering all the Jesuits in the country to be brought to the Bar of the House. He did, however, sincerely congratulate Mr. Speaker on the speech to which they had just listened, because the hon. Member announced on the Custom House steps in Belfast that if he did not catch the Speaker's eye he would kick up a row, that if he did not get what he wanted he would make himself a nuisance, and that while he did not want to be dragged out of the House of Commons, he would be, if necessary.


I was not aware that there were so many nuisances in the House when I said that.


I must remind the hon. Member that this is not a Motion on which to discuss the representation of Belfast.


said the chief defence for permitting these meetings to continue was that they were of a so-called religious character. The best evidence as to the soundness of that defence would be to read a few extracts from the religious sermons delivered there from Sunday to Sunday. ["Oh !"] Really, hon. Members need not object to hearing a sermon.


I would again remind the hon. Member that this is not a general discussion. The Motion refers specifically to the riotous proceedings alleged to have taken place last Sunday, and the failure of the Government to prevent them.


presumed he would be in order in showing the character of the speeches allowed to be delivered on Government property?


That is not the subject-matter of the Motion. The hon. Member must confine himself to the alleged riotous proceedings on Sunday last.


said he had no desire to transgress the ruling of the Chair. At these meetings Catholic bishops had been referred to as "ribald hypocrites," and "business men in the best paying business in the world," and when such utterances were allowed the Government were going perilously near to provoking scenes of riot in Belfast which would throw into the shade those occurrences which had previously formed the subjects of Royal Commissions of Inquiry. If an end were not put to this state of affairs, he could only express the hope that the Catholics of Belfast would take the matter into their own hands and put a stop to the blackguardism that went on Sunday after Sunday. The hon. Member proceeded to road an extract from one of the speeches delivered.


That does not refer, I understand, to the meeting of last Sunday. I have no doubt that the hon. Member, if he went back over the last ten years, would find an immense amount of bad language had been used in Belfast, but according to the rules of order he must confine himself to last Sunday.


suggested that the police-note takers, of whom the right hon. Gentleman had a large staff, could not be better employed than in attending at the Custom House steps in Belfast, where incitements to the assassination of the Lord Chief Baron had been delivered. The disturbances of the previous Sunday were between the Trewites and the Sloanites. He did not know what doctrinal or theological differences had produced the dissension in the Protestant ranks, but, according to the right hon. Gentleman the Member for North Armagh——

MR. WOLFF (Belfast, E.)

asked whether the hon. Member was in order in the line of argument he was pursuing.


The hon. Member is constantly getting away from the alleged riotous proceeding of last Sunday, and endeavouring to enter into a general discussion of the Belfast election and other matters. He really must confine himself to the matter before the House.


said the hon. Member for East Belfast would be acting more courageously if, instead of rising to points of order and endeavouring to limit the discussion, he would get up and frankly identify himself with the blasphemy

of these gatherings. He contended that the language used on the previous Sunday in reference to Catholics was so revolting and provocative as to be absolutely dangerous to the peace of the city. There were several ways in which the Government could put an end to the scenes. The first was to rail in the steps. What was the meaning of the Chief Secretary's declaration that that was inexpedient? Simply that mob law was to be allowed to prevail in Belfast as it had always prevailed. It was said that the mob would tear the railings down. Never since the advice "Do not nail his ears to the pump" had a more eloquent exhortation been given to pull the railings down if they were put up. Another way to put an end to the disturbances was to stop the collections which were taken every Sunday. Scenes of disorder from the same cause used to arise in Hyde Park, but the First Commissioner of Works had wisely prohibited the taking of the collections, and the disorder had ceased. That was an example the Chief Secretary would do well to follow, for he would then find that no one would want to preach on the Customs House steps. The attitude of the right hon. Gentleman exhibited not only gross partisanship but great cowardice. All parties in Ireland were absolutely agreed on one point, and that was in condemning the cowardice and general incompetence of the present occupant of the office of Chief Secretary.

(10.15.) Mr. A. J. BALFOUR

rose in his place, and claimed to move, "That the Question be now put."

Question put, "That the Question be now put."

The House divided:—Ayes, 188; Noes 121. (Division List No. 415.)

Colston, Chas. Edw. H. Athole Hobhouse, Henry (Somerset, E.) Pretyman, Ernest George
Compton, Lord Alwyne Hogg, Lindsay Pryce-Jones, Lt.-Col. Edward
Corbett, A. Cameron (Glasgow Hope, J. F. (Sheffield, Brightside Purvis, Robert
Corbett, T. L. (Down, North) Hornby, Sir William Henry Randles, John S.
Cox, Irwin Edward Bainbridge Hoult, Joseph Rankin, Sir James
Cranborne, Viscount Howard, John (Kent, Faversh'm Ratcliff, R. F.
Cross, Alexander (Glasgow) Howard, J. (Midd., Tottenham) Reid, James (Greenock)
Cubitt, Hon. Henry Hozier, Hon. James Henry Cecil Richards, Henry Charles
Dalrymple, Sir Charles Hudson, George Bickersteth Ridley, Hon. M. W (Stalybridge
Davenport, W. Bromley- Hutton, John (Yorks, N. R). Ritchie, Rt Hon. Chas. Thomson
Dimsdlale, Sir. Joseph Cockfield Johnstone, Heywood Roberts, Samuel (Sheffield)
Disraeli, Coningsby Ralph Kennaway, Rt. Hon. Sir John H. Robertson, Herbert (Hackney)
Dorington, Rt. Hon. Sir John E. Kenyon, Hon. Geo. T. (Denbigh) Robinson, Brooke
Doughty, George Kenyon-Slaney, Col. W. (Salop Ropner, Col. Robert
Douglas, Rt. Hon. A. Akers- Keswick, William Round, James
Doxford, Sir William Theodore Lambton, Hon. Frederick Wm. Sadler, Col. Samuel Alexander
Duke, Henry Edward Law, Andrew Bonar (Glasgow) Seely, Maj.J.E.B. (Isle of Wight
Durning, Lawrence. Sir Edwin Lawrence, Wm. F. (Liverpool) Simeon, Sir Barrington
Egerton, Hon. A. de Tatton Lawson, John Grant Skewes-Cox, Thomas
Elliot, Hon. A. Ralph Douglas Lee, Arthur H (Hants., Fareham Sloan, Thomas Henry
Faber, Edmund B. (Hants, W. Legge, Col. Hon. Heneage Smith, H. C (North'mb, Tyneside
Faber, George Denison (York) Leigh-Bennett, Henry Currie Smith, James Parker (Lanarks.)
Fellowes, Hon. Ailwyn Edward Long, Rt Charles W. (Evesh'm Smith, Hon. W. F. D. (Strand)
Fielden, Edward Brocklehurst Long, Rt. Hn. Walter (Bristol, S. Spear, John Ward
Finch, George H. Lonsdale, John Brownlee Spencer, Sir E. (W. Bromwich)
Finlay, Sir Robert Bannatyne Loyd, Archie Kirkman Stanley, Lord (Lancs.
Fisher, William Hayes Lucas, Col. Francis (Lowestoft Stewart, Sir Mark J. M'Taggart
Fison, Frederick William Macartney. Rt Hn W. Ellison Stone, Sir Benjamin
FitzGerald, Sir Robert Penrose- Macdona, John Cumming Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester)
Fitzroy, Hon Edward Algernon Maclver, David (Liverpoo1) Talbot, Rt. Hn. J. G (Oxf'd Univ.
Flannery, Sir Fortescue M'Arthur, Charles (Liverpool) Tollemache, Henry James
Fletcher, Rt. Hon. Sir Henry M'Calmont, Col. H.L.B (Cambs. Tomlinson, Sir Wm. Edw. M.
Flower, Ernest Malcolm, Ian Valentia, Viscount
Forster, Henry William Milvain, Thomas Vincent, Col. Sir C. EH (Sheffi'ld
Foster, Philips. (Warwick, S.W Montagu, Hon. J. Scott (Hants. Walrond, Rt. Hn. Sir William H.
Galloway, William Johnson Moon, Edward Robert Pacy Wanklyn, James Leslie
Gardner, Ernest Moore, William (Antrim. N.) Warde, Colonel C. E.
Garfit William More, Robt. Jasper (Shropshire Webb, Colonel William George
Gore, Hn. G.R.C.Ormsby-(Salop Morgan, David J.(Walth'mst'w Welby, Lt.-Col. A. C. E (Taunt'n
Gorst, Rt. Hn. Sir. John Eldon Morrell, George Herbert Whitmore, Charles Algernon
Gray, Ernest (West Ham) Morton, Arthur H. Aylmer Wilson, John (Glasgow)
Greene, Sir E. W.(B'rySEdm'nds Mount, William Arthur Wilson-Todd, Wm. H. (Yorks.)
Grenfell, William Henry Mowbray, Sir Robert Gray C. Wolff, Gustav Wilhelm
Groves, James Grimble Murray, Rt Hn A. Graham (Bute Wortley, Rt. Hn. C. B. Stuart-
Hamilton, Rt. Hn Lord G (Midd'x Nicholson, William Graham Wrightson, Sir Thomas
Hamilton, Marq. of(L'nd'nderry Nicol, Donald Ninian Wyne, Alexander
Hanbury, Rt. Hon. Robert Wm. O'Neill, Hon. Hobert Torrens Wyndham, Rt. Hon. George
Hare, Thomas Leigh Peel, Hn. Wm. Robert Wellesley Younger, William
Harris, Frederick Leverton Pemberton, John S. G.
Heath, Arthur Howard (Hanley Percy, Earl
Helder, Augustus Pierpoint, Robert TELLERS FOR THE AYES—
Henderson, Sir Alexander Pilkington, Lieut.-Col. Richard Sir Alexander Acland Hood and Mr. Anstruther.
Hermon-Hodge, Sir Robert T. Platt-Higgins, Frederick
Higginbottom, S. W. Plummer, Walter R.
Abraham, William (Cork, N. E. Cremer, William Randal Gilhooly, James
Allen, Charles P.(Glouc., Stroud Crombie, John William Goddard, Daniel Ford
Ambrose, Robert Cullinan, J. Grant, Corrie
Barry, E. (Cork, S.) Dalziel, James Henry Griffith, Ellis J.
Bayley, Thomas (Derbyshire) Delany, William Gurdon, Sir W. Brampton
Black, Alexander William Devlin, Joseph Harmsworth, R. Leicester
Brigg, John Dewar, John A. (lnverness-sh.) Harwood, George
Brown, Geo. M. (Edinburgh) Doogan, P. C. Hayden John Patrick
Burns, John Duncan, J. Hastings Helme, Norval Watson
Caldwell, James Edwards, Frank Hemphill, Rt. Hon. Charles H.
Campbell, John (Armagh, S.) Emmott, Alfred Holland, Sir William Henry
Campbell-Bannerman, Sir H. Evans, Samuel T, (Glamorgan) Hope, John Deans (Fife, West)
Carvill, Patrick Geo. Hamilton Fenwick, Charles Horniman, Frederick John
Causton, Richard Knight Ffrench, Peter Jameson, Major J. Eustace
Cawley, Frederick Flynn, James Christopher Jones, William (Carnarv'nshire
Condon, Thomas Joseph Foster, Sir Walter (Derby Co.) Jordan, Jeremiah
Crean, Eugene Fuller, J. M. F. Joyce, Michael
Kennedy, Patrick James Nannetti, Joseph P. Roe, Sir Thomas
Labouchere, Henry Nolan, Joseph, (Louth, South) Runcman, Walter
Law, Hugh Alex. (Donegal, W.) Nussey, Thomas Willans Shackleton, David James
Layland-Barratt, Francis O'Brien, James F. X. (Cork) Sheehan, Daniel Daniel
Leamy, Edmund O'Brien, Kendal (Tipp'ary, Mid Soares, Ernest J.
Leese, Sir Joseph F. (Accrington O'Brien, P. J. (Tipperary, N.) Spencer, Rt. Hn. C R (Northants
Leigh, Sir Joseph O'Brien, William (Cork) Stevenson, Francis S.
Leng, Sir John O'Connor, James (Wicklow, W. Sullivan, Donal
Levy, Maurice O'Connor, T. P. (Liverpool) Taylor, Theodore Cooke
Lloyd-George, David O'Donnell, T. (Kerry, W.) Thomas, Sir A. (Glamorgan. E.
Lough, Thomas O'Dowd, John Thomas, David Alfred (Merthyr
Lundon, W. O'Kelly, Conor (Mayo, N.) Tomkinson, James
MacDonnell, Dr. Mark A. O'Kelly, James (Roscommon, N Trevelyan, Charles Philips
MacNeill, John Gordon Swift O'Malley, William White, Luke (York, E. R.)
MacVeagh, Jeremiah O'Shee, James John Whiteley, George (York. W.R)
M'Crae, George Partington, Oswald Whitley, J. H. (Halifax)
M'Kean, John Pease, J. A. (Saffron Walden) Williams, Osmond (Merioneth
M'Kenna, Reginald Pirie, Duncan V. Wilson, John (Durham, Mid.)
M'Killop, W. (Sligo, North) Power, Patrick Joseph Young, Samuel
Markham, Arthur Basil Rea, Russell Yoxall, James Henry
Mooney, John J. Reckitt, Harold James
Morgan, J. Lloyd (Carmarthen Redmond, William (Clare) TELLERS FOR THE NOES—
Moss, Samuel Rickett, J. Compton Captain Donelan and Mr. Patrick O'Brien.
Moulton, John Fletcher Rigg, Richard
Murphy, John Roberts, John Bryn (Eifion)

(10.28.) Question put accordingly.

Abraham, William (Cork, N.E.) Helme, Norval Watson O'Brien, William (Cork)
Ambrose, Robert Hemphill, Rt. Hon. Charles H. O'Connor, James (Wicklow, W.
Barry, E. (Cork, S.) Holland, Sir William Henry O'Connor, T. P. (Liverpool)
Bayley, Thomas (Derbyshire) Hope, John Deans (Fife, West) O'Donnell, John (Mayo, S.)
Brigg, John Horniman, Frederick John O'Donnell, T. (Kerry, W.)
Burns, John Jameson, Major J. Eustace O'Dowd, John
Caldwell, James Jordon, Jeremiah O'Kelly, James (Roscommon, N
Campbell, John (Armagh, S.) Joyce, Michael O'Malley, William
Carvill, Patrick Geo. Hamilton Kennedy, Patrick James O'Shee, James John
Cawley, Frederick Labouchere, Henry Partington, Oswald
Condon, Thomas Joseph Law, Hugh Alex.(Donegal, W.) Pease, J. A. (Saffron Walden)
Crean, Eugene Leamy, Edmund Pirie, Duncan V.
Cremer, William Randal Leigh, Sir Joseph Power, Patrick Joseph
Crombie, John William Leng, Sir John Rea, Russell
Cullinan, J. Levy, Maurice Reckitt, Harold James
Dalziel, James Henry Lloyd-George, David Redmond, William (Clare)
Delany, William Lough, Thomas Rickett, J. Compton
Devlin, Joseph Lundon, W. Roberts, John Bryn (Eifion)
Dilke, Rt. Hon. Sir Charles MacDonnell, Dr. Mark A. Roberts, John H. (Denbighs.)
Doogan, P. C. MacNeill, John Gordon Swift Shackleton, David James
Duncan, J. Hastings MacVeagh, Jeremiah Shaw, Charles Edw. (Stafford)
Edwards, Frank M'Crae, George Sheehan, Daniel Daniel
Emmott, Alfred M'Kean, John Sullivan, Donal
Evans, Samuel T. (Glamorgan) M'Kenna, Reginald Taylor, Theodore Cooke
Fenwick Charles M'Killop, W. (Sligo, North) Thomas, David Alfred (Merth'r
Ffrench, Peter Markham, Arthur Basil Tomkinson, James
Flynn, James Christopher Mooney, John J. White, Luke (York, E.R.)
Gilhooly, James Moss, Samuel Wilson, John (Durham, Mid)
Goddard, Daniel Ford Murphy, John Young, Samuel
Grant, Corrie Nannetti, Joseph P.
Griffith, Ellis J. Nolan, Joseph (Louth, South) TELLERS FOR THE AYES—
Harmsworth, R. Leicester O'Brien, James F. X. (Cork) Captain Donelan and Mr. Patrick O'Brien.
Harwood, George O'Brien, Kendal (Tipp'rary Mid
Hayden, John Patrick O'Brien, P. J. (Tipperary, N.)
Agnew, Sir Andrew Noel Atkinson, Rt. Hon. John Baird, John George Alexander
Anson, Sir William Reynell Bagot, Capt. Josceline FitzRoy Balcarres, Lord
Arkwright, John Stanhope Bailey, James (Walworth) Balfour, Rt. Hon, A. T. (Manch'r
Arnold-Forster, Hugh O. Bain, Colonel James Robert Balfour, Rt Hn Gerald W (Leeds

The House divided:—Ayes, 98; Noes, 200. (Division List No. 416.)

Balfour, Kenneth R. (Christch. Gore, Hn. G R C Ormsby (Salop Nicholson, William Graham
Banbury, Frederick George Gorst, Rt. Hn. Sir. John Eldon Nicol, Donald Ninian
Bathurst, Hon. Allen Benjamin Gray, Ernest (West Ham) O'Neill, Hon. Robert Torrens
Bhownaggree, Sir M. M. Greene, Sir E W. (B'rySEdm'nds Peel, Hn. Wm Robert Wellesley
Bignold, Arthur Grenfell, William Henry Pemberton, John S. G.
Bill, Charles Groves, James Grimble Percy, Earl
Blundell, Colonel Henry Halsey, Rt. Hon. Thomas F. Pierpoint, Robert
Boscawen, Arthur Grffith- Hamilton, Rt. Hon. L'rd G (Midd'x Pilking on, Lieut.-Col. Richard
Brodrick, Rt. Hon. St. John Hamilton, Marqof (L'nd'nderry Platt-Higgins, Frederick
Brookfield, Colonel Montagu Hanbury, Rt. Hon. Robert Wm. Plummer, Walter R.
Brotherton, Edward Allen Hare, Thomas Leigh Pretyman, Ernest George
Bullard, Sir Harry Harris, Frederick Leverton Pryce-Jones, Lt.-Col. Edward
Butcher, John George Heath, Arthur Howard (Hanley Purvis, Robert
Carson, Rt. Hon. Sir Edw. H. Helder, Augustus Randles, John S.
Cavendish, V. C. W. (Derbyshire Henderson, Sir Alexander Rankin, Sir James
Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor) Hermon-Hodge, Sir Robert T. Ratcliff, R. F.
Cecil, Lord Hugh (Greenwich) Higginbottom, S. W. Reid, James (Greenock)
Chamberlain, Rt. Hon. J. (Birm. Hobhouse, Henry (Somerset. E.) Richards, Henry Charles
Chamberlain, Rt Hn J. A. (Worc. Hogg, Lindsay Ridley, Hn. M. W.(Stalybridge
Chapman, Edward Hope, J. F (Sheffield, Brightside Ritchie, Rt. Hn. Chas. Thomson
Clare, Octavius Leigh Hornby, Sir William Henry Roberts, Samuel (Sheffield)
Cochrane, Hon. Thos. H. A. E. Hoult, Joseph Robertson, Herbert (Hackney)
Cohen, Benjamin Louis Howard, John (Kent, Fav'rsh'm Robinson, Brooke
Collings, Rt. Hon. Jesse Howard, J. (Midd., Tottenham Ropner, Colonel Robert
Colomb, Sir John Charles Ready Hozier, Hon. James Henry Cecil Round, Rt. Hon. James
Colston, Chas. Edw. H. Athole Hudson, George Bickersteth Sadler, Col. Samuel Alexander
Compton, Lord Alwyne Hutton, John (Yorks, N. R.) Seely, Maj. J.E B.(Isle of Wight
Corbett, A. Cameron (Glasgow) Jeffreys, Rt. Hon. Arthur Fred. Seton-Karr, Henry
Corbett, T. L. (Down, North) Johnstone, Heywood Shaw-Stewart, M.H.(Renfrew)
Cox, Irwin Edward Bainbridge Kemp, George Simeon, Sir Barrington
Cranborne, Viscount Kennaway, Rt. Hon. Sir John H. Skewes-Cox, Thomas
Cross, Alexander (Glasgow) Kenyon, Hon. Geo. T.(Denbigh) Sloan, Thomas Henry
Cubitt, Hon. Henry Kenyon-Slaney, Col. W. (Salop. Smith, HC (N'rth'mb. Tyneside
Dalrymple, Sir Charles Keswick, William Smith, James Parker (Lanarks.
Davenport, W. Bromley- Lambton, Hon. Frederick Wm. Smith, Hon. W. F. D. (Strand)
Dimsdale, Sir Joseph Cockfield Law, Andrew Bonar (Glasgow) Spear, John Ward
Disraeli, Coningsby Ralph Lawrence, Wm. F. (Liverpool) Spencer, Sir E. (W. Bromwich)
Dorington, Rt. Hon. Sir John E. Lawson, John Grant Stanley, Lord (Lancs.)
Doughty, George Lee, Arthur H (Hants., Fareham Stewart, Sir Mark J. M'Taggart
Douglas, Rt. Hon. A. Akers- Legge, Col. Hon. Heneage Stone, Sir Benjamin
Doxford, Sir William Theodore Leigh-Bennett, Henry Currie Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester)
Duke, Henry Edward Long, Col. Charles W. (Evesham Talbot, Rt. Hn. J.G.(Oxf'd Univ.
Durning-Lawrence. Sir Edwin Long, Rt. Hn. Walter (Bristol, S. Tollemache, Henry James
Egerton, Hon. A. de Tatton Lonsdale, John Brownlee Tomlinson, Sir Wm. Edw. M.
Elliot, Hon. A. Ralph Douglas Loyd, Archie Kirkman Valentia, Viscount
Faber, Edmund B. (Hants, W.) Lucas, Col. Francis (Lowestoft) Vincent, Col. Sir C E H (Sheffield
Faber, George Denison (York) Lyttelton, Hon. Alfred Walrond, Rt. Hn. Sir William H
Fellowes, Hon. Ailwyn Edward Macartney, Rt Hn W.G. Ellison Wanklyn, James Leslie
Fielden, Edward Brocklehurst Macdona, John Cumming Warde, Colonel C. E.
Finch, George H. MacIver, David (Liverpool) Webb, Colonel William George
Finlay, Sir Robert Bannatyne M'Arthur, Charles (Liverpool) Welby, Lt.-Col. ACE (Taunton
Fisher, William Hayes M'Calmont, Col. H.L.B.(Cambs Whitmore, Charles Algernon
Fison, Frederick William Malcolm, Ian Wilson, John (Glasgow)
FitzGerald, Sir Robert Penrose- Milvain, Thomas Wilson-Todd, Wm. H. (Yorks.)
Fitzroy, Hon. Edward Algernon Montagu, Hon. J. Scott (Hants.) Wolff, Gustav Wilhelm
Flannery, Sir Fortescue Moon, Edward Robert Pacy Wortley, Rt. Hon. C. B. Stuart-
Fletcher, Rt. Hon. Sir Henry Moore, William (Antrim, N.) Wrightson, Sir Thomas
Flower, Ernest More, Robt. Jasper (Shropshire Wylie, Alexander
Forster, Henry William Morgan, David J.(Walthamsto. Wyndham, Rt. Hon. George
Foster, Philips. (Warwick, S. W Morrell, George Herbert Younger, William
Fowler, Rt. Hon. Sir Henry Morton, Arthur H. A. Aylmer
Galloway, William Johnson Mount, William Arthur TELLERS FOR THE NOES—
Gardner, Ernest Mowbray, Sir Robert Gray C. Sir Alexander Acland Hood and Mr. Austruther.
Garfit, William Murray, Rt Hn A Graham (Bute