HC Deb 20 October 1902 vol 113 cc246-8
MR. PATRICK O'BRIEN

Perhaps the right hon. Gentleman will allow me to ask him whether he has reconsidered the demand of the Irish Members for an opportunity of discussing the state of affairs in Ireland.

MR. A.J. BALFOUR

Perhaps it will be better if I make the matter perfectly clear, though it was my intention to do so before. The position, as I understand, with regard to a discussion upon Irish affairs, is this. There was a long and important debate upon the proclamation under the Crimes Act last session. There was, subsequent to that, another long and important debate upon the condition of Ireland on Irish Supply. That took place, I think, it July. Had it not been for the circumstance to which we owe this meeting at the present time, the opportunity which hon. Gentlemen desire could not have occurred. I think I stated on Thursday that it is in conformity with the invariable practice of the House that we cannot break into the ordinary procedure, except on the demand of the Opposition as a whole. [NATIONALIST cries of "Who are the Opposition?"] That is perfectly well understood. But, quite outside and beyond that well known safety valve for criticism upon the administration, there is, of course, that supplied by the power which hon. Gentlemen have, if they get the necessary support, of moving the adjournment. I do hope the hon. Gentleman will think that not an insufficient nor a wholly unsympathetic reply to his Question.

MR. PATRICK O'BRIEN

Speaking for my colleagues, I say we consider the answer most unsatisfactory.

SIR H. CAMPBELL-BANNERMAN

As the right hon. Gentleman has referred to-day and on a previous day to the action which may he taken by the Opposition as a whole, I would venture to submit to him that that reference to my friends and myself is hardly so much in accordance as he thinks with established practice. I pass by the point, which is very important, that when the Crimes Act was made permanent there was a distinct promise given—I think by the right hon. Gentleman himself in another capacity than that which he now occupies—that the House, on any important action being taken under the new law, should have an opportunity of being informed of the whole subject. But, leaving that on one side, I submit to the right hon. Gentleman that here we have a purely Irish question, and any of us can sec by reading the newspapers and by the events that are passing under our observation every day, what reason there is for the representatives of Ireland to challenge, if they choose, the administration of affairs, I and elicit from the Government a statement of the grounds upon which they are proceeding. The question is an Irish one, and this is a demand made by the constitutional representatives of Ireland. I should have thought that demand, in the circumstances, could not be refused. I cannot imagine, for instance, such a series of events occurring in Scotland and Scottish Members making such a demand and its being refused. I cordially and sincerely join with the Irish Members in supporting the demand for an opportunity of discussing the question, and I would beg the right hon. Gentleman to observe that it is to the constitutional demand of the Irish representatives that I think he owes it, and not to any instance or desire on the part of my friends here.

MR. A. J. BALFOUR

I must frankly say that I cannot accept the doctrine laid down by the right hon. Gentleman, which seems to me to be of a wholly Separatist kind. He seems to think that the misgovernment of Ireland, if it be misgovernment, or good government, is a purely Irish question, I do not admit that for a moment. The right hon. Gentleman says he supports the demand of the Irish Members. If, by supporting their demand, he means that he joins, as Leader of the Opposition, in making it, that demand will be at once granted, but I think there was a certain ambiguity in the phraseology of the right hon. Gentleman, which, perhaps, lie will clear up.

SIR H. CAMPBELL-BANNERMAN

I have said that I entirely support the demand of the Irish Members, but that I consider it should be their demand and not mine.

MR. PATRICK O'BRIEN

I think I am entitled to ask the right hon. Gentleman what state of mind he is now in, what answer he has to give to the Question which I put?

MR. A. J. BALFOUR

There is a perfectly clear and definite meaning I attached to the process I described. The hon. Gentleman asks what state of mind I am in now. I am in lather a confused state of mind as to the position taken up by the right hon. Gentleman opposite. As soon as that is cleared up I will give the hon. Gentleman an answer.