§ Motion made, and Question proposed, "That Tomorrow the proceedings on the Consolidated Fund (No. 1) Bill and on the Adjourned Debate on Contracts for the Army in South Africa have precedence of all other business, including Business of the House (Rules of Procedure),"—(Mr. A. J. Balfour.)
179§ *(3.56.) SIR CHARLES DILKE (Gloucestershire, Forest of Dean)said it was not necessary to detain the House with any lengthened remarks in opposing the Motion, because the Government were well aware of the grounds on which it was to be opposed. There stood first on the Paper for tomorrow a Motion in the name of the hon. Member for Mid Lanarkshire (Mr. Caldwell). This was a subject which excited more than the usual amount of attention outside the House, and which a large number of Members of the House had been trying in one way or another, to bring before the attention of Parliament and the Government. He believed, indeed, that the Government were anxious that the Motion should be brought under discussion in the House, because there had been recently a deputation to certain Members of the Cabinet, including Lord James of Here ford and the Home Secretary, in the course of which, as he understood, they expressed a wish that the matter should at some time be brought before the House of Commons. There is no subject more deserving the attention of the House. He was not, of course, allowed to refer to the subject of the Motion, except to say that it dealt with certain judgments which it was admitted effected a change in the law which had obtained for the last forty-three years. It was a matter of fact that this Motion had been very unfortunate. On two previous occasions the ballot for it had been successful in obtaining first place on Tuesdays. On the first occasion the Tuesday was taken for the discussion of the Procedure Rules, and in the second it was annexed for the discussion of Supply. On the present occasion, although all the Supply required before Easter had been obtained, it was now proposed to deprive the Members promoting it of the opportunity they so ardently desired. He thought it would be a scandal if the Government did not provide an opportunity for discussing this subject in the course of the present session. He did not wish to blame any one for what had occurred on this occasion, as full notice had been given by all concerned of what was proposed to be done. But he did think the Members who were promoting the Motion had grievous cause of complaint, that for 180 the third time they should thus have been prevented from bringing this question before the House.
§ MR. CALDWELLsaid that as the Motion on the Paper for tomorrow stood in his name, he should like to point out that Tuesdays, by the Standing Orders, were allotted to private Members, and the allotment was a matter which the House itself alone ought to deal with. It was the case that on the first occasion on which this Motion got pre-eminence, it was deprived of its place on the ground of the urgency of proceeding with the Procedure Rules, which many of them thought were by no means urgent. Now, these Procedure Rules were not being pressed for the present, and, therefore, tomorrow could not fairly be taken away from private Members. The right to that day had, in his view, reverted to private Members. On the second occasion they were deprived of their opportunity by the demands of Supply; but, again, all the urgency for Supply had disappeared, the Government had attained all that they required prior to the 31st March, and, therefore, there was no need for taking this particular day for financial business. He would like to point out that the Government might easily have avoided taking tomorrow. There was no necessity for them to have moved the Speaker out of the Chair on the Civil Service Estimates last Friday, for they had already got four months Votes in advance, and the Motion might easily have been postponed until after Easter. He would like further to point out that there could be no question whatever that if the recent decision of the Law Courts were acted upon it would produce very considerable friction between the working classes and the masters in the event of a strike taking place. He thought the Government had already sufficient in their hands, in connection with the war and with the state of Ireland, to occupy their time, and they, therefore, were not well advised in taking a step which might produce trouble in the community at large. He could only say in conclusion that, as a protest against the attitude the Government had taken up, he intended to press the matter to a division.
§ MR. A. J. BALFOURThe hon. Gentleman and the right hon. Baronet who have 181 just spoken have spoken as if the Government had come down and taken the day which had long been allotted to the discussion of this important question in which they are interested, but that is not the case. The Government took Tuesdays for the Rules of Procedure or Supply long long before the hon. Gentlemen ballotted and obtained this particular day. It is suggested that the Rules of Procedure are not urgent, but the real explanation is that the Leader of the Opposition asked for two days for the discussion of his Motion of censure on the Government, and that was the real reason why this particular day has had to be annexed. It is not for the Government to complain that that demand has been made of them. But it is a matter of regret to me personally that we could not apply these two particular days to further progress with the new Rules of Procedure. The hon. Member opposite has said that there may possibly be disputes between masters and workmen, and that it will be deplorable if that is the case; but I cannot see that even if tomorrow were devoted to the discussion of the Motion in question it would make any difference from that point of view. I should like to remind the hon. Gentleman that the passing of an abstract Resolution by the House could not have the smallest effect upon disputes, and I do not think I need say any more except that I hope if the Procedure Rules are rapidly dealt with, there will be an opportunity after Whitsuntide of discussing the matter.
(4.8.) SIR H. CAMPBELL-BANNER-MANMy hon. friend the Member for Mid Lanarkshire has accused the Government of stealing tomorrow. But how much worse a position am I myself in, because I am not the robber, but am in the position of receiver of stolen goods. I have always been brought up to believe that the receiver is worse than the robber himself. I think the right hon. Gentleman opposite has made out a good case for himself with regard to this particular Tuesday, on the ground that he had got it already before there was any idea of this Motion of the hon. Member for Mid Lanark being brought forward. I, therefore, am not disposed to quarrel 182 with his action in the matter, but I am disposed to urge on him most strenuously that he should find another day for the matter because there should be no question at all as to the intense interest felt on the subject throughout the country. It seems to me that the promise of the right hon. Gentleman as to the possibility of a day after Whitsuntide is rather cloudy and in the extreme distance, and I would press him as to whether he cannot give a more definite assurance as to a matter of such extreme importance. Can he not promise us that we shall have an opportunity of discussing this matter at a later period of the session?
§ Mr. BELL (Derby)I should like to add a few words to what has been already said. This Motion has been down for three Tuesdays, and, as far as I can see, we have no prospect of reaching it. I appreciate the remarks of the right hon. Gentleman the Leader of the House, but in regard to one portion of his speech, in which he said that no result would follow from a debate in this House, I would like to point out that in reference to disputes between employers and workmen that a discussion in this House will have a great bearing upon both sides, especially in a case in, which stubbornness might be shown in assenting to common-sense views. I have at all times endeavoured to prevent those unfortunate and barbarous methods of settling labour disputes, strikes, and lock-outs. I can only express a hope that as the right hon. Gentleman says he is about to further press forward the Rules of Procedure, if he intends to take Tuesdays, he will at any rate, at some time in the near future, give some-opportunity of discussing this very important subject. If he cannot allow us to have tomorrow will he promise we shall have tomorrow week, in order to discuss the matter. If he will give such a promise I will not press my opposition to the present Motion. We shall be just as well off so far as the new Rules are concerned if we discuss them after Easter rather than before it. With these few observations I would ask the right hon. Gentleman to give us some promise in the direction I have indicated.
§ MR. JOHN REDMONDsaid that, although he would be one of the last men to vote for taking away a private Member's right, he could not on this occasion resist the Motion of the Leader of the House. Thearrangement that there should be two nights for the debate on the Motion of the Leader of the Opposition was made largely at the instance of Gentlemen on the Opposition side of the House, and he himself publicly emphasised the demand upon the Government for a second night. Therefore, he felt bound to support the Motion of the right hon. Gentleman the Leader of the House. He would like to
§ point out that, if they had not asked for a second day for the debate, the Government would have put down other financial business or have resumed the discussion on the new Rules. The day, in fact, was already mortgaged, and would not, under any circumstances, have been devoted to the discussion of the Motion of the hon. Member for Mid Lanark.
§ (4.13.) Question put.
§ The House divided:—Ayes, 237; Noes, 55. (Division List No. 80.)
185| AYES. | ||
| Abraham, William (Cork, N. E.) | Condon, Thomas Joseph | Hayden, John Patrick |
| Agg-Gardner, James Tynte | Corbett, A. Cameron (Glasgow) | Hayne, Rt. Hon. Charles Seale- |
| Agnew, Sir Andrew Noel | Corbett, T. L. (Down, North) | Helder, Augustus |
| Aird, Sir John | Cranborne, Viscount | Hemphill, Rt. Hon. Charles H. |
| Archdale, Edward Mervyn | Crean, Eugene | Hoare, Sir Samuel |
| Arnold-Forster, Hugh O. | Cripps, Charles Alfred | Hobhouse, C. E. H.(Bristol, E.) |
| Atkinson, Rt. Hon. John | Cross, Alexander (Glasgow) | Hogg, Lindsay |
| Austin, Sir John | Cross, Herb. Shepherd (Bolton) | Hope, J. F. (Sheffield, Brightside |
| Bagot, Capt. Josceline Fitzroy | Crossley, Sir Savile | Horner, Frederick William |
| Bailey, James (Walworth) | Delany, William | Houldsworth, Sir Wm. Henry |
| Bain, Colonel James Robert | Denny, Colonel | Houston, Robert Paterson |
| Balcarres, Lord | Donelan, Captain A. | Howard, John (Kent, F'versh'm |
| Baldwin, Alfred | Douglas, Rt. Hon. A. Akers- | Howard, J. (Midd., Tottenham |
| Balfour, Rt. Hon. A. J. (Manch'r | Duke, Henry Edward | Hozier, Hon. James Henry Cecil |
| Balfour, Rt. Hn Gerald W. (Leeds) | Durning-Lawrence, Sir Edwin | Jebb, Sir Richard Claverhouse |
| Balfour, Kenneth R. (Christch. | Dyke, Rt. Hon. William Hart | Jeffreys, Arthur Frederick |
| Banbury, Frederick George | Egerton, Hon. A. de Tatton | Jessel, Captain Herbert Merton |
| Banes, Major George Edward | Elliot, Hon. A. Ralph Douglas | Johnston, William (Belfast) |
| Barry, E. (Cork, S.) | Fellowes, Hon. Ailwyn Edward | Jordan, Jeremiah |
| Bartley, George C. T. | Ferguson, R. C. Munro (Leith) | Kearley, Hudson E. |
| Beach, Rt. Hn. Sir Michael Hieks | Fergusson, Rt. Hn. Sir J. (Manc'r | Kenyon, Hon. Geo. T. (Denbigh) |
| Beaumont, Wentworth C. B. | Ffrench, Peter | Kenyon-Slaney, Col. W. (Salop.) |
| Bhownaggree, Sir M. M. | Fielden, Edward Brocklehurst | Labouchere, Henry |
| Blake, Edward | Finlay, Sir Robert Bannatyne | Lambton, Hon. Frederick Wm. |
| Blundell, Colonel Henry | Fisher, William Hayes | Law, Andrew Bonar |
| Bond, Edward | FitzGerald, Sir Robert Penrose- | Lawrence, Joseph (Monmouth) |
| Boscawen, Arthur Griffith- | Fitzroy, Hon. Edward Algernon | Lawson, John Grant |
| Boulnois, Edmund | Forster, Henry William | Lee, Arthur H.(Hants., Fareh'm |
| Bowles, Capt. H. F. (Middlesex) | Fowler, Rt. Hon. Sir Henry | Legge, Col. Hon. Heneage |
| Brodrick, Rt. Hon. St. John | Galloway, William Johnson | Lloyd-George, David |
| Brookfield, Colonel Montagu | Garfit, William | Lock wood, Lt.-Col. A. R. |
| Brown, Alexander H. (Shropsh. | Gibbs, Hn. A. G. H. (City of Lond. | Long, Col. Charles W. (Evesham) |
| Brymer, William Ernest | Gibbs, Hon. Vicary (St. Albans) | Long, Rt. Hn. Walter (Bristol, S.) |
| Campbell, Rt. Hn. J. A. (Glasgow | Gilhooly, James | Lonsdale, John Brownlee |
| Campbell, John (Armagh, S.) | Gladstone, Rt. Hn. Herbert John | Lowther, Rt. Hon. James (Kent) |
| Campbell Bannerman, Sir H. | Goulding, Edward Alfred | Lucas, Col. Francis (Lowestoft) |
| Carew, James Laurence | Graham, Henry Robert | Lucas, Reginald J.(Portsmouth |
| Carson, Rt. Hon. Sir Edw. H. | Gray, Ernest (West Ham) | Lundon, W. |
| Cavendish, R. F. (N. Lanes.) | Green, Walford D. (Wednesbury | Macartney, Rt. Hn. W. G. Ellison |
| Cavendish, V. C. W. (Derbyshire | Greene, Sir E. W (B'ryS Edm'nds | Macdona, John Cumming |
| Cayzer, Sir Charles William | Greville, Hon. Roland | M'Cann, James |
| Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor) | Grey, Sir Edward (Berwick) | M'Govern, T. |
| Chamberlain, Rt. Hon. J. (Birm. | Gurdon, Sir W. Brampton | M'Iver, Sir Lewis (EdinburghW. |
| Chamberlain, J. Austen (Worc'r | Hain, Edward | Manners, Lord Cecil |
| Chapman, Edward | Halsey, Rt Hon. Thomas F. | Martin, Richard Biddulph |
| Clancy, John Joseph | Hamilton, Rt Hn Lord G (Midd'x | Maxwell, W. J. H. (D'mfriesshire |
| Clive, Captain Percy A. | Hammond, John | Mellor, Rt. Hon. John William |
| Cochrane, Hon. Thos. H. A. E. | Hanbury, Rt. Hon. Robert Wm. | Melville, Beresford Valentine |
| Cohen, Benjamin Louis | Hardy, Laurence (Kent, Ashf'rd | Meysey-Thompson, Sir H. M. |
| Collings, Rt. Hon. Jesse | Hare, Thomas Leigh | Milvain, Thomas |
| Colomb, Sir John Charles Ready | Harris, Frederick Leverton | Mitchell, William |
| Mooney, John J. | Reid, Sir R. Threshie (Dumfries) | Thomas, David Alfred (Merthyr) |
| More, Robt. Jasper (Shropshire) | Rickett, J. Compton | Thorburn, Sir Walter |
| Morley, Rt. Hn. John (Montrose | Ridley, Hon. M. W. (Stalybridge) | Tritton, Charles Ernest |
| Morton, Arthur H. A. (Deptford) | Ridley, S. Forde (Bethnal Green) | Tuke, Sir John Batty |
| Mount, William Arthur | Ritchie, Rt. Hn. Chas. Thomson | Valentia, Viscount |
| Mowbray, Sir Robert Gray C. | Roberts, Samuel (Sheffield) | Vincent, Sir Edgar (Exeter) |
| Murray, Rt Hn A. Grahaml Bute | Roche, John | Warner, Thomas Courtenay T. |
| Murray, Col. Wyndham (Bath) | Rothschild, Hon. Lionel Walter | Warr, Augustus Frederick |
| Nicholson, William Graham | Round, James | Wason, John Cathcart (Orkney V |
| Nicol, Donald Ninian | Royds, Clement Molyneux | Welby, Lt.-Col. A. C. E.(Taunton |
| Nolan, Joseph (Louth, South) | Russell, T. W. | Welby, Sir Charles G. E. (Notts.) |
| O'Brien, James F. X. (Cork) | Samuel, Harry S. (Limehouse) | Wharton, Rt. Hon. John L loyd |
| O'Brien, Kendal (Tipperary, Mid | Seely, Maj. J. E. B. (Isle of Wight) | White, Luke (York, E. R.) |
| O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny) | Sharpe, William Edward T. | White, Patrick (Meath, North) |
| O'Brien, P. J. (Tipperary, N.) | Sheehan, Daniel Daniel | Whitley, J. If. (Halifax) |
| O'Connor, James (Wicklow, V.) | Simeon, Sir Barrington | Whitmore, Charles Algernon |
| O'Kelly, James (Roscommon, N | Sinclair, John (Forfarshire) | Williams, Rt Hn J Powell-(Birm- |
| Orr-Ewing, Charles Lindsay | Skewes Cox, Thomas | Wilson, John (Falkirk) |
| O'Shaughnessy, P. J. | Smith, Abel H.(Hertford, East) | Wilson, John (Glasgow) |
| Palmer, Walter (Salisbury) | Smith, James Parker (Lanarks.) | Wilson, J. W. (Worcestersh, N.) |
| Parker, Gilbert | Smith, Hon. W. F. D. (Strand) | Wilson-Todd, Wm. H. (Yorks.) |
| Pease, J. A. (Saffron Walden) | Stanley, Edward Jas.(Somerset) | Wortley, Rt. Hon. C. B. Stuart - |
| Plummer, Walter R. | Stanley, Lord (Lanes.) | Wyndham, Rt. Hon. George |
| Powell, Sir Francis Sharp | Stewart, Sir Mark J. M'Taggart | Young, Samuel |
| Purvis, Robert | Strachey, Sir Edward | |
| Pym, C. Guy | Stroyan, John | |
| Rasch, Major Frederic Carne | Sturt, Hon. Humphry Napier | TELLERS FOR THE AYES—Sir William Walrond and Mr. Anstruther. |
| Rattigan, Sir William Henry | Sullivan, Donal | |
| Redmond, John E.(Waterford) | Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester) | |
| Reid, James (Greenock) | Talbot, Rt. Hn. J. C. (Oxf'd Univ. | |
| NOES. | ||
| Allan, William (Gateshead) | Harwood, George | Soares, Ernest J. |
| Allen, Charles P.(Glouc., Stroud | Jacoby, James Alfred | Stevenson, Francis S. |
| Barlow, John Emmott | Jones, David Brynmor (Sw'nsea | Tennant, Harold John |
| Caine, William Sproston | Jones, William (Carnarvonshire | Thomas, Alfred (Glamorgan, E.) |
| Cameron, Robert | Kinloch, Sir John George Smyth | Thomson, F. W. (York, W. R.) |
| Channing, Francis Allston | Lambert, George | Trevelyan, Charles Philips |
| Craig, Robert Hunter | Layland-Barratt, Francis | Tully, Jasper |
| Cremer, William Randall | Levy, Maurice | Walton, Joseph (Barnsley) |
| Davies, Alfred (Carmarthen) | Lewis, John Herbert | Wason, Eugene (Clackmannan) |
| Dewar, John A.(Inverness-sh.) | Lough, Thomas | Weir, James Galloway |
| Dilke, Rt. Hon. Sir Charles | M'Crae, George | Whiteley, George (York. W. R.) |
| Doogan, P. C. | Moulton, John Fletcher | Whittaker, Thomas Palmer |
| Douglas, Charles M. (Lanark) | Norman, Henry | Williams, Osmond (Merioneth) |
| Duncan, J. Hastings | Norton, Capt. Cecil William | Wilson, Henry J. (York, W. R.) |
| Dunn, Sir William | Pickard, Benjamin | Yoxall, James Henry |
| Elibank, Master of | Priestley, Arthur | |
| Emmott, Alfred | Rea, Russell | |
| Farquharson, Dr. Robert | Rigg, Richard | TELLERS FOR THE NOES—Mr. Caldwell and Mr. Bell. |
| Fenwick, Charles | Runciman, Walter | |
| Foster, Sir Walter (Derby Co.) | Scott, Chas. Prestwich (Leigh) |
Bill read a second time, and committed for Monday next.