§ (11.5.) MR. WYLIE (Dumbartonshire)Before going into Committee, I desire to call attention to the imperfect ventilation and other sanitary arrangements of some parts of the House, and to the expediency of putting electric ventilating fans into every lobby, passage, room, and apartment, wherever practicable and advantageous, and to bring the sanitary arrangements up to a higher standard, and to move that a Committee of experts be immediately appointed for the purpose of carrying out arrangements on 112 these principles. I must mention that I do not wish this to be at all understood as reflecting on the Accommodation Committee which sat last year, or on the First Commissioner of Works, who has always been most courteous in considering every suggestion connected with this subject, and who has done all in his power to improve the accommodation for Members. I believe that instead of objecting, my light hon. friend will consider that I am endeavouring to increase the convenience of Members. In 1836, when the Houses of Parliament were built, the principles of ventilation and of sanitary science were not so nearly well understood as they are at present. The 113 result is that there is a great deal of imperfect sanitation in the House, which has been the subject of consideration for many years by various Committees. In my own experience, I have seen a ventilating fan revolutionise the health of a whole workshop. The two which were placed in the division lobbies have been so effective that I am surprised the principle has not been further extended. Each of these fans changes the whole atmosphere in a quarter of an hour. I looked forward with much interest to the Report of the Accommodation Committee, and I was disappointed to see it stated that the Committee had not time to take up the question of the ventilation of the House, but that they strongly recommended that another Committee should be appointed for this express purpose. That is the principal object of my Motion. If the Accommodation Committee takes up the subject, it will be a considerable time before they can report, and then we will have the heat of summer upon us before any improvement is made. With regard to this Chamber itself, the ventilation is on a radically wrong principle. The air supplied to the chamber is propelled through the floor and carpet. The draught also is on an antiquated principle. The air is drawn out of the chamber by burning charcoal, and by means of gas burning in tubes, which causes an enormous amount of heat above, and does not perform the work effectually. The cubic space per head when the House is crowded is totally inadequate. The hot air rises to the ceiling, and is not taken away with sufficient rapidity. The ventilation in the Press Gallery is of a very bad description, and it is a wonder that the reporters are able to give such lucid reports in such an atmosphere. The ventilation in the Ladies' Gallery is 114 still worse. Our treatment to our lady visitors is barbarous in the extreme. Just as in a Moslem community, we not only cage them up, but we almost asphyxiate them when we have them caged up, and we submit them to even a worse asphyxiation when we take them downstairs. If there were a few powerful electric fans near the ceiling, they would withdraw the air with great rapidity and improve the ventilation of the House, as well as that of the Press Gallery and the Ladies' Gallery. I do not intend to speak of the other Chamber, because the Members there do not spend sufficient time in it to injure themselves: but there are many other places which require prompt attention, such as the inner lobby, the Members' writing rooms, the passage to the library, and the passage at right angles to it, the central lobby, Westminster Hall, in which almost impalpable dust is continually falling, the dining-rooms up and down stairs, the library, the smoking and tea rooms, the typewriting room, and last, but not least, the kitchen. It is stated that the kitchen was in such an ill-ventilated condition last year that Lord Stanley went downstairs and broke the windows. [An HON. MEMBER: Oh!] The hon. Gentleman may say "Oh," but I am quoting from the evidence before the Committee. Whether this drastic remedy was before or after dinner I do not know—it seems to me to be like an after-dinner performance—but a few ventilating fans would have improved the ventilation much better. Again, none of I the lavatories are up to the standard required in a first-class hotel, and some of them would not be tolerated in any hotel, I believe that if a very little money was spent on them, one of the principal causes of the contamination of the air of the House would be removed. Meanwhile the heat of summer will be upon us, and 115 if an expert Committee is not appointed we will have to put up with this bad ventilation for a very long time.
As showing the inadequate and obsolete principles of the sanitation and ventilation of the House, no samples of the atmosphere have ever been taken. Even in the Lancashire weaving sheds the air is continually tested. There are three methods—mechanical, chemical, and bacterial. The first two are very simple, the last more complicated, but complicated and expensive as it is, the first Assembly in the world ought to go to the expense. If that were done, I think we would find that there are an enormous number of microbes in the air in the House and its surroundings. I read the other day in a newspaper that millions of germs of no less than twenty-three different species, including the microbes of influenza, tuberculosis, and lockjaw, were found in a small piece of carpet taken from the floor of the United States House of Representatives. As to whether this was the carpet which Dickens mentioned as having seen its battered appearance greatly improved by the squirting of saliva all over it, I do not know. I am sure that we could find a very large number of microbes in the carpet of this Chamber also. Some constitutions are quite capable of resisting microbes and rendering them inanimate, but even healthy persons exposed for a considerable time to the attacks of a large number of microbes may succumb. The various epidemics of influenza and the other complaints from which hon. Members have been suffering would not have been so prevalent if we had more fresh air. I would suggest, therefore, that before the heat of summer is upon us, a Committee of experts who understand the subject should be appointed, 116 and that they should consider the matter promptly, and that the work should be carried out efficiently before the Whitsuntide recess. I know that the subject of the ventilation of this House and its sanitary arrangements is a prosaic one, but I believe, if it is taken up practically and thoroughly in the light of the teaching of modern science, that it will do a great deal to improve the health of Members and also to improve their vigour and temper. Notwithstanding the vitiated atmosphere, hon. Members gave a ready response to the Chief Secretary tonight when he spoke of the pleasant environment in connection with the debate, but if there had been a crowded House and a bad atmosphere, I doubt very much whether we would have such a certainty of an interchange of compliments between the Irish Benches and the Treasury Bench. I believe, therefore, that if we attend to the ventilation of the House properly we will have a great improvement in all these respects, and that we will add more to the comfort of Members than will even the new procedure rules, and I hope that better ventilation will be contemporaneous with the introduction of these new rules. I beg to move that an expert Committee be appointed.
§ MR. T. P. O'CONNORI cordially support the suggestion of the hon. Member opposite—
§ * MR. SPEAKERThe hon. Member has exhausted his right to speak by seconding the Amendment.
§ (11.15.) THE FIRST COMMISSIONER OF WORKS (Mr. AKERS DOUGLAS,) Kent, St. Augustine'sI may say at once that 117 the Committee which sat last year on the accommodation of the House of Commons recommended the appointment of a Committee to consider the question which the hon. Member has brought forward with so much force. So far as I am concerned, having been a member of that Committee, I feel bound to carry out their recommendation, and I had intended to move the appointment of a Committee before Easter, which could meet immediately after the holidays. Whether that Committee will be a Committee such as that of last session or an expert Committee, as suggested by my hon. friend, will receive my most careful consideration. I will not follow my hon. friend into the whole history of the ventilation of the House, or of the various methods of ventilation which have been adopted, but I would like to remind him that the present system of ventilation has been approved by various Committees in recent years, one sitting under no less an authority than Sir Henry Roscoe. That Committee went carefully into the sanitation of the House and the system of ventilation, and no doubt great improvements were made in consequence of its report, although I think a great deal is still left to be done, especially in the lobbies and Committee rooms. I myself have been in close attendance in this House for the last twenty years. I think I may claim that during that period I have been as often in the House as any other Member, and perhaps I may congratulate myself as being one of those healthy men, to whom my hon. friend alluded, who readily throw off bacteria; but I think that there is very little fault to be found so far as the air in the Chamber itself is concerned. I would like to correct my hon. friend in one or 118 two matters. Samples of the atmosphere of the House of Commons have been constantly taken and have been analysed. One sample is in process of analysis at the present moment, and I shall be very glad to inform my hon. friend of the result when it is received from the laboratory Having agreed to the request of my hon. friend, I do not think he will expect me to go further into the matter now. A Committee will be appointed, and I will consider whether it shall he an expert Committee or a Select Committee of the House of Commons. I am rather inclined to think that better work would be got from a small Committee composed of Members who are especially acquainted with sanitary matters. Fortunately, we have in this House many distinguished men connected with science, such as my hon. friend the Member for the London University and my hon. friend the Member for South Ayrshire, who might help us very considerably in this matter. At all events, the House can rest assured that the Committee will be appointed, and that it will sit directly after Easter.
§ MR. JOHN REDMONDI do not know what the view of the First Lord of the Treasury is with regard to the progress of business during the short time that now remains. Some of my hon. friends have notices on the Paper, which, I need not point out to the right hon. Gentleman, would keep us up to twelve o'clock, but we know we cannot initiate any effective debate at this hour. We will, therefore, agree to the Speaker leaving the Chair now, if no other business of any kind is taken.
§ (11.22.) MR. CREMER (Shoreditch, Haggerston)I should like to say a few words on the question raised by the hon. Gentleman opposite. Eight or nine years ago I was a member of a Committee appointed to consider the ventilation of this budding to make recommendations for its improvement and the greater convenience of Members. That Committee on the whole was a very practical body, and it made some practical recommendations, several of which were carried out, but still the matter is in a very imperfect condition. I have had the pleasure of visiting and closely examining every Parliament in Europe except the Spanish Parliament, and I was very careful to examine, as far as I could, the sanitary condition of the various buildings I visited. As a result, 'I venture to say that there is not a healthier Chamber in Europe than the House of Commons, and I think we may all congratulate ourselves that, on the whole, there is no better or purer atmosphere to be found in any Chamber throughout the whole of Europe. With regard to the strong point made by the hon. Gentleman opposite concerning the lavatories, I venture to say there is no more insanitary public building, as far as lavatories are concerned, to be found in the; Metropolis than this building, and if an expert from the County Council were, called in, and if the same rules were applied to this building as that body apply to houses generally in London, there is not a lavatory in the whole building that would not have to be: reconstructed from top to bottom. That is a very serious matter, and I do hope that the right hon. Gentleman, who is 120 I determined, so far as he possibly can, to find a remedy for the state of things in this building, will take the opinion of experts from the County Council, or some other reliable body. I have only one other complaint to make, which I think may explain why influenza is so prevalent among Members. In the dining and other rooms there is a great deal of draught near the windows. Although a thick curtain is drawn across them, still the draught is not excluded. I have seen Members sitting shivering, not only in the dining-rooms, but in the Committee rooms upstairs, and I venture to say that half the number of Members who are suffering from influenza contracted it in the dining-rooms or the Committee-rooms. I do not pretend to devise a remedy, but I believe that a remedy could be found, and that the draughts could be stopped. I hope this is one of the questions which the right hon. Gentleman will take into consideration as speedily as possible, before our ranks are still further thinned by influenza and colds.
§ Question put, and agreed to,