§ 6."That a Supplementary sum, not exceeding £40,000, be granted to His Majesty to defray the charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1902, for the salaries and ex- 305 penses of the Inland Revenue Department."
§ 7."That a Supplementary sum, not exceeding £75,000, he granted to His Majesty to defray the charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1902, for the salaries and working expenses of the Post Office Telegraph Service."
§ Resolutions read a second time.
§ First four Resolutions agreed to.
§ Fifth Resolution—
§ Motion made, and Question proposed, "That this House doth agree with the Committee in the said Resolution."
§ (11.53.) MR.FLYNNsaid there was an interesting discussion on the Vote on Friday night. A good many Members desired to speak on it, but on account of the anxiety of the Secretary to the Treasury to get the Estimates, several hon. Members had refrained from speaking. The sum asked for was very large, and if the present system continued by which the Trustee Savings Banks were able to guarantee 2¾ percent., a very much larger sum would have to be taken in future years. The Chancellor of the Exchequer himself had estimated that it might amount to a quarter of a million. They had had a very interesting discourse on Friday evening from the hon. Member for South Islington, on the great advantages of thrift, and the importance of encouraging thrift by giving a substantial rate of interest to those who invested their money in Post Office Savings Banks or in Trustee Savings Banks. Every hon. Member was in favour of encouraging thrift, but it might be carried too far. At present they were absolutely putting their hands into the pockets of the taxpayer in order to pay a comparatively high rate of interest to a certain section of the population. As long as the sum was small the House never thought it worth while to discuss the matter seriously; but now when large sums were likely to be involved, he thought the House and the Government ought 306 to pause. Both in England and Ireland the rural classes — small farmers, thrifty labourers, and mechanics in small towns— put their money on deposit in joint stock banks, and only received 1 per cent., 1¼ per cent., or l½ per cent. He wanted to know why those classes only received that rate of interest, while depositors in the Trustee Savings Banks had guaranteed to them 2¾ per cent at the expense of the taxpayer. In order that that artificial rate of interest might be paid, the general taxpayer was mulcted. He thought the whole system ought to be taken into consideration. A good many people who were honest and industrious could not affort to save at all, and, perhaps, many of them had to depend on charity or the workhouse in their old age; yet all their lives they had been paying duties on sugar, tea, and other articles they consumed, in order that another class who could afford to put money by, might have a high rate of interest. He was credibly informed that in Ireland a large number of the depositors in the Trustee Savings Banks were those who had an assured income, such as policemen and coastguards, and who, in addition, looked forward to superannuation. He wished to know why day labourers earning a small wage should be asked to contribute in order to provide a substantial interest for that class of depositor. It was all very well while Consols returned 2¾ per cent., but now the Government were opening up a wide vista of increased charge on the general resources of the country by keeping up an artificial rate of interest. There was, he knew, a strong body of opinion in the House that they were doing the proper thing and were encouraging thrift, when they put their hands into the taxpayers' cocket in order to pay interest which was not earned. The Vote should not be allowed to pass unless they had some assurance that the system should not be allowed to continue indefinitely.
THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER (Sir M.HICKS BEACH, Bristol, W.)I have really answered the hon. Gentleman already. I have said that I was as much impressed as he 307 could be with the difficulties we have to meet and with the unreasonableness of making the taxpayer pay the depositors in Savings Banks more than their money has earned; and, as I have said, I intend to ask the House to appoint a Committee to consider the matter. I hope that that will satisfy the hon. Member.
§ MR.FLYNNsaid he thought they should have a specific assurance from the right hon. Gentleman that the system would cease. It was unreal, artificial, and unfair, and if a Committee was to be formed it ought to be formed at once. He certainly should oppose the Vote.
It being Midnight, the Debate stood adjourned
Debate to be resumed tomorrow.
Consideration of Sixth and Seventh Resolutions deferred till tomorrow.