§ MR. LABOUCHEREI beg to ask the Financial Secretary to the War Office, whether he will lay upon the Table of the House the Conditions of Tender of the Meat Contract awarded to Mr. Bergl, with any agreement in 845 writing subsequently given by Mr. Bergl in regard to any assurance that all or any of the meat shall be procured from Australia and New Zealand; whether, in any such assurance, the words if possible are to be understood to mean if the meat can be procured in Australia and New Zealand, or if it can be procured at the same price as elsewhere; whether any estimate has been made by the War Office of the difference of the cost of meat landed in South Africa from Australia and New Zealand, and from Argentina; and, if so, will he state what this difference is estimated to be; whether he can state the exact financial condition of Mr. Bergl in regard to the contract, and whether he is or was himself a partner with the guarantors, or whether he was acting for them or others on an assurance of the payment of some fixed sum, or a commission on the contract; and can he state the price in the contract granted to Mr. Bergl of meat supplied by him.
§ MR. PIRIEAt the same time, may I ask the Secretary of State for War, with reference to the Meat Contract for South Africa awarded to Mr. Bergl, whether he can now inform the House as to the result of inquiries into the circumstances attending the conviction and sentence of Mr. Bergl for selling inferior meat; is Mr. Bergl a naturalised British subject; can he state who are the guarantors the list of whose names he has received, or whether, after the War Office received information that the contract was for a company, they awarded it without ascertaining who the company were; and was the contract for the supply of meat at Aldershot from June to December, 1901, awarded to Mr. Bergl, and immediately sub-let by him; and, if so, can he state for what sum it was re-sold; and, whether the Government will cause an inquiry to be made into the antecedents of Mr. Bergl, and the circumstances connected with the Contract in question, either by the appointment of a Departmental Committee, or by some other method, with a view of informing the House on the matter.
LORD STANLEYPerhaps the House will pardon me if I read an exceptionally long answer. The facts of this Contract are as follows:—The Tenders were considered by a small Committee consisting 846 of the Quartermaster General, the Assistant Under Secretary, the Director of Army Contracts, Colonel Morgan, and myself. After investigating the various tenders, including those which were for landing of meat in South Africa, but not for distribution, and those which included both services, we found that the tenders which did not include distribution could not be worked as economically as the lowest tender which included distribution. There were three tenders for the whole contract of this character—those of Mr. Bergl, Messrs. Weil, and the old contractor, the Cold Storage Company Of these Mr. Bergl's was the lowest. As the terms of his tender have since appeared in the public Press I will give them to the House, although this is not in accordance with the usual practice. They were—for fresh meat, per 100lb., 70s. 6d., at 8.46d. per lb.; for frozen meat, per 100lb., 45s. 8., at 5.48d. per lb.
LORD STANLEYYes, for distribution wherever we want them, throughout all South Africa. The sum required for such a business was a large one. Mr. Bergl therefore, gave guarantors' names to show that, if given the contract, he would have sufficient financial support to enable him to carry it out. His guarantors were Messrs. Houlder, shipowners, who are associated with Mr. Bergl in owning meat works in Queensland; the Federal Steamship Company who own the Ocean-beach meat works in New Zealand, and who are associated with Birt and Company, owners of meat works at Brisbane, Queensland and Sydney; and Mr. Crart. Inquiries have been made about each of these firms. Messrs. Houlder's are a firm having a capital of £500,000. They are doing a large business, and their stability was understood to be undoubted. The only point affecting them unfavourably was a charge made against them some time back on a question of underwriting which has not yet been tried, and which did not affect their stability in regard to this contract. The Federal Steamship Company have a capital of £500,000. Mr. Crart was contractor for the supply of meat to the Natal Field force in 1899–1900. 847 Colonel Morgan informed the Committee that he could not speak too highly of his discharge of that contract. He will be the manager of the company in South Africa. The War Office being satisfied of the financial security of the guarantors, the contract was given to Mr Bergl conditionally upon our being satisfied of the ability of the company he intended to form to carry out our contract. He was also required to guarantee that £200,000 should be paid up, and to lodge cash or Consols in the bank to that amount, and an undertaking was given to obtain as far as possible the necessary quantities of both live and dead stock from the various British colonies. The company will be registered at Pretoria, with a board here having full powers to deal with the War Office. Mr. Bergl is one of the shareholders, and is manager in Great Britain. The names given to us in connection with the company are as follows:—Mr. Bergl, Mr Karl Meyer, Messrs Weil, Mr Tymms, representing the De Beers Company, Messrs. Houlder's, Mr Hughes, representing the Federal Steamship Company, Mr. Stroyan, M.P., Messrs. Lewis and Marks, and Mr. Joel. The company as so formed will, in the opinion of the War Office, give ample security for the efficient carrying out of the contract. With regard to the question of Mr. Bergl having been fined, he states that he was fined £10 owing to an assistant at one of his shops selling to an inspector from New Zealand some mutton as New Zealand which was really Australian. (Laughter.) He has been a good contractor for us for five years, and we saw no reason to pass him over, his tender being the lowest, and the contract was signed accordingly. The War Office had only two ends to secure—namely, to obtain the lowest price for the public during the 12 months which the contract had to run, and proper security for its fulfilment. I have now given the fullest possible answer to the Questions which have been asked, and I am not aware of any other facts relevant to the subject.
§ MR. LABOUCHEREDid the original conditions of tender provide for distribution? What guarantee did the Government have that any portion of 848 this meat would be sent from Australia, or New Zealand, rather than from the Argentine? That was practically my Question.
LORD STANLEYI think I have answered that. We have the kind of contract which everybody was asked to tender for. As to obtaining the meat from Australia instead of the Argentine, we have every intention that this contract shall be kept in the spirit as well as the letter, and we have ample confidence in those whom we employ at the Cape—our officers who inspect the meat—that they will ensure that being done.
§ MR. PIRIEAfter the fair and straightforward answer that has been given I am unwilling to put any other Question, but I wish to ask as to two small points, Was Mr. Bergl a naturalized British subject?
§ MR. LABOUCHEREIs there any guarantee by which the contractor will be obliged to buy any or all of the meat from Australia or New Zealand?
LORD STANLEYThere is a written agreement with them that they will get, as far as possible, all the meat from our British possessions. That was given before we signed the contract.
§ MR. LABOUCHEREIs that a guarantee dependent on their being able to get the meat at equal prices? Suppose it costs more to obtain from Australia and New Zealand than from the Argentine is there any guarantee that they will get it from Australia?
§ [No answer was returned.]