HC Deb 17 December 1902 vol 116 cc1488-92
SIR H. CAMPBELL-BANNERMAN (Stirling Burghs)

I wish to ask the right hon. Gentleman whether he will make to this House a statement similar to that apparently made yesterday in another place by the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs on the question of Venezuela; and whether he has any further information of any kind on the subject to communicate to the House.

THE PRIME MINISTER AND FIRST LORD OF THE TREASURY (Mr. A. J. BALFOUR,) Manchester, E.

I am not aware that my noble friend made anything that can be called a statement in the other House. He did answer a Question put to him as to the course this country would adopt in case the seizure of Venezuelan gunboats proved insufficient to bring the present controversy to an end. I am perfectly ready to answer that Question in this House, although I think that by implication it is already answered in the Blue-book which is in the hands of hon. Members; and I rather think that I myself have given an answer by anticipation in the observations I made in debate two nights ago. At all events, the answer is perfectly explicit. Supposing that the seizure of the Venezuelan gunboats has not the result we all hope it will have, it will be necessary to proceed to a blockade. The blockade, of course, will be carried on by us and by Germany; but it will be carried on by the fleets of the two Powers as regards different portions of the coast, and though the fleets will be acting with the same object, they will not be acting as one force. We have no intention, and have never had any intention, of landing troops in Venezuela or of occupying territory, even though that occupation might only be of a temporary character. We do not think that would be desirable, either on military or on any other grounds.

SIR WILLIAM HARCOURT (Monmouthshire, W.)

When will the notification of the blockade be published, so that the Powers may be aware under what circumstances and in what manner the blockade will be enforced? I would also ask whether the right hon. Gentleman will place the House and the country in possession of the communications that have passed between His Majesty's Government and the United States of America, both antecedent to the intervention and sub sequently, so that we may know really how we stand in reference to the Government of the United States?

MR. GIBSON BOWLES (Lynn Regis)

May I also ask whether the Government, before deciding to institute this blockade, have considered and finally disposed of and removed the objections to such a blockade stated by the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs in his communication to the Admiralty on October 22nd?

MR. A. J. BALFOUR

The whole matter, of course, has been very carefully considered, and all the conditions governing such a blockade have been drawn up and will be published in due time for the information of neutrals; but, without going into details, the Government are most anxious that these operations, the necessity for which we of course deeply regret, shall be as little inconvenience to neutral Towers as they can possibly be made. Papers are being prepared as rapidly as they can be, and they will, no doubt, include the papers the right hon. Gentleman opposite desires—at least, I assume so.

MR. GIBSON BOWLES

I assume that no difference will be made between the vessels of one neutral Power and those of another?

MR. A. J. BALFOUR

Certainly, no difference will be made.

MR. T. M. HEALY (Louth, N.)

Have the United States consented to the blockade?

*SIR CHARLES DILKE (Gloucestershire, Forest of Dean)

I might put that question in a more specific way. Statements having appeared in Germany, which are believed in Germany, to the effect that the United States have declined to submit to the position of neutrals on the ground that there is no such thing as a pacific blockade, and that there are here no belligerents; have such representations been received here from the United States?

MR. A. J. BALFOUR

As I understand the right hon. Gentleman's Question, he refers to a controversy as to whether there can or cannot be such a thing in international law as a pacific blockade.

*SIR CHARLES DILKE

That is, pacific according to the American view communicated to Germany yesterday.

MR. A. J. BALFOUR

I think it is very likely that the United States Government will think there can be no such thing as a pacific blockade, and I personally take the same view. Evidently a blockade does involve a state of war.

MR. KEIR HARDIE (Merthyr Tydvil)

May I ask whether there is any prospect of recovering the cost of these operations from the individuals on whose behalf they are undertaken?

Mr. MACVEAGH (Down, S.)

Will the light hon. Gentleman state the total amount of the British claims against Venezuela, and the approximate total cost of the present expedition?

MR. A. J. BALFOUR

It is perfectly impossible to answer Questions like that without notice; but I may repeat the observation which I made the other night, that these operations are not undertaken in order to recover the debts of bondholders. They have been undertaken most reluctantly, and after long and patient delay, because the Venezuelans assaulted British citizens and seized British ships.

SIR H. CAMPBELL-BANNERMAN

Has the right hon. Gentleman yet learned what he did not seem to be quite sure of the other night—namely, whether the Germans, who are acting in this matter, have any grievance against the Venezuelans, except such grievances as arise out of their financial claims?

MR. A. J. BALFOUR

Yes, Sir, I believe they have.

MR. T. M. HEALY

May I ask whether the United States have assented to a blockade, which, as suggested by His Majesty's Government, would exclude United States vessels?

*MR. CREMER (Shorediteh, Haggerston)

May I ask whether any further efforts have been made, or any suggestions or proposals received, from either His Majesty's Government, the United States Government, or the Government of Venezuela, as to settling the whole matter in dispute by arbitration?

MR. A. J. BALFOUR

I answered that Question most fully in the speech I made two days ago. The Question of the hon. and learned Gentleman the Member for Louth, does not arise when you are in a state of war with a third party.

MR. T. M. HEALY

A state of war! Has war been declared?

MR. A J. BALFOUR

Does the hon. and learned gentleman suppose that without a state of war you can take the ships of another Power and blockade its ports?

MR. KEIR HARDIE

Will the right hon. gentleman say whether the offer of arbitration made on behalf of Venezuela will be accepted by His Majesty's Government?

MR. A. J. BALFOUR

No, Sir, I can make no statement.

*MR. CREMER

What I desire to ascertain from the Prime Minister is whether any further efforts have been made in the direction of arbitration since the right hon. Gentleman's speech of two days ago.

MR. A. J. BALFOUR

No, Sir. Nothing has occurred relevant to that particular inquiry since I last spoke on the subject.