HC Deb 07 May 1901 vol 93 cc904-19


Order for Second Reading read.

Motion made, and Question proposed, "That the Bill be now read a second time."

MR. MURNAGHAN (Tyrone, Mid)

moved the rejection of the Bill, saying that he did it at the request of 75 per cent. of the ratepayers of the town of Omagh. They regarded it as a highhanded effort to get possession of an asset which properly should belong to the local authority, and the profits of which ought to go in the relief of local rates. On the occasion when the Dungannon Gas Bill came before the House, the Dungannon Urban Council had the assistance of almost every Ulster Member and of hon. Members representing Belfast. He thought Omagh that day was entitled to the same treatment. He did not see that there was a particle of difference between the two cases; if anything, the Dungannon Company had a higher ground for its claims than the Omagh Gas Company had that day. This Bill came before the House of Commons after having passed through the House of Lords; but he failed to see that that put any special halo round the measure. The inhabitants of the town of Omagh had a right to look to the popular Assembly to see that justice was done, and that the privileges which properly belonged to them were not filched from them. If the company succeeded in passing their Bill they would deprive the local authorities of a possession of very great value, and so enhance the price of gas that it would become a serious burden on consumers. Perhaps it would be as well to tell the House something of the origin of the Bill. Half a century ago a few gentlemen of business enterprise entered into a co-partnership for the purpose of establishing a gas company in Omagh, and they subscribed a capital of £2,500 for the purpose. That sum had been found to be sufficient; all improvements since made had been paid for out of profits, and the shareholders had likewise pocketed some very tempting dividends at the expense of gas consumers. In 1856 the company was registered. In 1879 the capital of the company was doubled, each holder, of a pound share receiving £2, and the capital of the company thus became £5,000 without the shareholders having to contribute an extra penny. The Irish Local Government Act came in force in 1898; the local authorities of Omagh at once applied to be created an urban council. They thus placed themselves in a position to take over undertakings of the nature of the supply of light, and the first chairman made inquiries as to the possibilities of introducing electricity. That actively stirred up the gas-work proprietors, who had been going on in a humdrum fashion for half a century, and in order to protect their own interests they gave notice of a Bill securing to themselves statutory powers. The local authorities at once took steps to ascertain if it were possible to buy up the undertaking, and suggested an amicable arrangement by which they could take over the works as a going concern on equitable terms. The owners of the company declined to sell, however, although they clothed their refusal in verbiage which lacked the directness and clearness which should be characteristic of business negotiations. They said that the directors were willing to sell the gas works to any person, but they could not entertain any proposal for that purpose until they procured the passing of the Bill giving the company their usual rights and privileges in all respects. He would like to know what were the "usual rights and privileges' of a few moneyed gentlemen in a town to get possession of an article which everybody needed, and for which they were bound to charge exorbitant prices when there was no competition. He was justified in saying that the company had for fifty years been acting illegally, opening up streets and laying down mains without authority. He trusted the House was not going to give sanction to an illegality simply because it was of long continued existence. Then the company came to the House and asked sanction to charge 5s. as the standard price per 1,000 feet, with a right to increase that price if they so desired. In a neighbouring town, twenty miles distant, where the supply of gas was in the hands of the local authority, the price was only 4s. 2d.; while in Derry, where there Was a private company, the price was 3s. fid. There was a long stride between 3s. 6d. and 5s. But in Belfast, owing to the fact that the gas was in the possession of the local authority, consumers got it for 2s. 3d. per 1,000 feet; and he hoped the hon. Members for Belfast would help the inhabitants of Omagh in their opposition to this Bill. The Bill also increased the capital of the company from £2,500 to £15,000. What an infliction that would be to the town! The local authority were anxious to come to terms with the company, and to deal with them fairly, and even generously. In Clause 56 the company wanted to get power for a Provisional Order for electric lighting. Every gentleman connected with the concern was highly respected in the ordinary walks of life; but the question was, Was the House going to give these gentlemen a certain monopoly for their own enrichment to the disadvantage of the inhabitants of the town? Were they going to take away from this little town all the elements of nourishment which would help it to grow and expand its resources? Again, this Bill forced the local authority to come to the House to protect its rights, but it also endeavoured to force the local authority to pay to the company the costs of a Bill which they did not want. That was an indication of the conscience of the gentlemen. There was no need for this Bill. Efforts had been made over and over again by the local authority to come to terms with the company, and to give them even a fancy price for their undertaking, but these efforts had all been in vain, and the company would come to no agreement. He was certain that the House would stand between the gas consumers and ratepayers of Omagh and a few gentlemen who were only looking after their own enrichment. He begged to move that the Bill be read a second time that day six months.

*MR. O'DOHERTY (Donegal, N.)

seconded the rejection of the Bill, not so much as an Irish parliamentary representative as a member of the corporation of the neighbouring city of Londonderry; for the fight of Omagh to-day would be the fight of Londonderry tomorrow, and of other towns and urban councils in Ireland. The object of the Bill was to secure to a few monopolists in. Omagh certain rights and privileges which up to the present they had enjoyed owing to the sufferance of the body which had charge of the streets and roads of Omagh. The only reason that could be adduced for passing the Second Reading of the Bill was that it had passed through the Committee stage in the House of Lords. But he had yet to learn that there was a chronic determination on the part of the Commons of England to ratify without rhyme or reason everything that came down to them approved of by the House of Lords. Last year a Bill was introduced by a gas company in the town of Dungannon similarly situated to Omagh to secure and maintain the rights and privileges which up to then they had enjoyed on sufferance, and he had had the pleasure of reading that day the report of the speech then made by the hon. Member for South Antrim when he asked the House to flout the gas company of Dungannon, and to leave it to the people to manage their own gas and water. The rejection of that Provisional Order was moved by the hon. Member for East Tyrone, and was ably seconded by the hon. Member for South Belfast. The hon. Member for South Belfast told the House that if they sanctioned the Second Reading of that Order, giving the Dungannon company the right in perpetuity to supply gas to that town, they would be nullifying the Local Government Act of 1898. He would therefore appeal to hon. Members on both sides to vote for the rejection of the Bill. If an urban council in England or in Scotland were concerned would a hundred Members of the House of Commons be found to vote against the principle of municipal trading? In every instance in which municipal or urban authorities sought for powers as against monopolists they were always supported by the House. After the statements which had already been made he did not think it would be fair to the House to repeat again the history of the Omagh Gas Company, but he would remind the House that that company was formed so far hack as 1850, and that its promoters, who were the predecessors in title of the promoters of the Bill before the House, made a promise to the inhabitants of Omagh that they would be satisfied with a five-per cent. dividend on their capital of £2,500, or at most 6 per cent., and that the price of gas would from time to time be reduced, so that the profits would not be in excess of the amount required to pay the dividend. That state of affairs continued till the year 1878, when the capital of the company was increased to £5,000, not by the addition of fresh capital, but by the over-plus profits over 6 per cent. from 1850 tol878. The promise made by the original promoters was then broken, because, having increased the capital, they still continued to pay 5 per cent. on £5,000, or 10 per cent. on the original capital. That was the state of affairs at present. Now, what was the modest proposal made by the promoters of the Bill? They asked the House to further inflate the capital of the company by making it £15,000, and also to sanction the payment of a dividend on that inflated capital which would amount to 54 per cent. on the original capital. Would such a measure, if it concerned an English or a Scotch urban district, be for one moment entertained by the House of Commons? If they in Ireland were told by a majority of the House that they were not able to manage their own local affairs, at any rate he would ask hon. Members to let urban and municipal councils in Ireland manage their own local gas and water affairs. In 1886 a Bill similar to the present Bill was introduced by the Dundalk Gas Company. It obtained Second Reading, but on the Third Beading it was opposed by the Dundalk Town Commissioners, and as a result the House by a majority of forty-one refused to sanction the handing over of the lighting of Dundalk to the company, as, in the opinion of the House, it was the local authority which should own the gas and water. If there was one clause more than another which should make hon. Members look with suspicion on the Bill before the House, it was Clause 68. The promoters of the Bill asked the House not only to hand over to them the absolute right of supplying gas in Omagh, but by Clause 68 they asked for power to apply, under the provisions of the Electric Lighting Act of 1882, for a licence to produce and supply electrical energy to Omagh. The promoters wanted a monopoly, not only so far as gas was concerned, but they also wanted to shut the door against the urban council of Omagh being ever allowed to supply electric light to the inhabitants of the town. He had not had such a large experience as other hon. Members of bills such as the one under discussion, but he had been assured that it was wholly unprecedented for any such clause to be included in an ordinary gas Bill, and he would ask hon. Members to pause before saddling for ever the town of Omagh with a monopoly so far as public lighting was concerned. They all knew that gas and water were articles of the utmost importance in modern civilisation, and it had been held over and over again by the House that the proper authority for supplying those articles to towns and cities was the representative body of the community concerned. Many hon. Members were members of municipalities and urban councils throughout the United Kingdom, and he would ask them to consider the great practical inconvenience of having an authority other than the municipal body interfering with the roads and pulling up the streets. The city of Belfast, of which they were all so proud in Ulster, because of its enterprise and energy, had refused to allow a monopolist company to filch from the citizens full rights over their streets. Hon. Members representing Belfast and other hon. Members would be nullifying their past action by voting for the Bill before the House. He would ask hon. Members to be consistent, and not on the present occasion to depart from the beneficent principle which had been laid down again and again that where a local authority was prepared to supply gas, water, and electricity no power should be given to either a foreign or local company for a similar purpose. He would ask that the same treatment should be given to Omagh as had been given to every other municipality, and as long as he was in the House he himself would always vote for the principle that the local authority should have the absolute right of supplying gas, water, and electricity. He had great pleasure in seconding the proposal.

Amendment proposed— To leave out the word 'now,' and at the end of the Question to add the words 'upon this day six months.'"—(Mr. Murnaghan.)

Question proposed, "That the word 'now' stand part of the Question."

MR. RENTOUL (Down, E.)

said this Bill had passed through various stages in the House of Lords and had been sent to the Commons, and they were now asked to reject it without the slightest consideration whatever, and without being made acquainted with the facts of the case. After the Keady Railway Bill had been rejected a short time ago a letter appeared in a Belfast newspaper assuring the public that the reasons why the House had rejected the Bill were incorrect in every detail. That should lead the House to be careful about rejecting a Bill upon ex parte statements made in this House. The hon. Gentleman who moved the rejection was intimately connected with the Omagh district, and was very much respected in the House, but he made a number of statements which, for anything they knew, might or might not be correct, for he did not attempt to give a sentence of proof with regard to the leading statements he made. He said he was commissioned by 75 per cent. of the ratepayers of Omagh to speak on their behalf; he might have been commissioned to speak for 99 per cent. of them, but he adduced no proof of it.


said he had in his pocket the petition signed by the ratepayers.


said the hon. Member did not even make a hint of that in his speech, and therefore he was justified in commenting upon the absence of proof. That petition did not prove that 75 per cent. of the ratepayers were opposed to this Bill.


said the number who had signed the petition amounted to three-fourths of the inhabitants.


said there was no actual proof that 75 per cent. of the ratepayers were behind the hon. Member, and that was a very strong reason why the Bill should be sent to a Committee so that the statement might be proved. This company started gasworks fifty years ago, and at that time they did a good service to the town of Omagh, and now the local authority wished to deprive them of their property. He believed that it was only a question of price. If this Bill was rejected, the company would be left absolutely in the hands of the local authority, who could fix what price they liked. As for the price of gas, this company at Omagh had been supplying gas at a lower price than any other town in the whole of Ulster, except Armagh. He had not a particle of interest in this Bill either directly or indirectly, but he should vote for the Second Reading in order to have the matter investigated, and to see whether the company was being properly treated by the local authority, or whether they were being swindled out of their property. The hon. Member opposite had said that the interests of the ratepayers should not be sacrificed to the interests of a few private individuals. He agreed with that, but, on the other hand, the interests of a few private individuals should not be absolutely sacrificed to the interests of the ratepayers. Unless a great deal more information and some very different arguments were brought forward, the House would be bound to give this Bill a Second Reading.


The hon. and learned Member opposite has asked us to send this Bill to a Committee upstairs in order to have it investigated. I think we are bound to look at the question from a much broader point of view. We took the trouble not long ago to pass a Bill for the local government of Ireland, and that Bill gave certain powers to popularly elected representative bodies. They were looked forward to as bodies that would have charge of everything that concerns the well-being of the whole community. This Bill deals with one of the most essential things to a community, namely, the lighting of a locality, which has hitherto been in the hands of private persons. This new body which comes into being under the Local Government Act is naturally the one which ought to be in possession of all the powers of lighting the locality which it governs, and I do not want to see any step taken by this House which will prevent that local body acquiring those powers on proper and reasonable terms. As we have heard from the correspondence read, attempts were made by the local authority to come to terms with these private persons in order to acquire possession of the undertaking for the general good of the inhabitants. Those attempts were repudiated by the private people, who would not even negotiate. Then they take advantage of their position to come to this House and the other House, not only to obtain powers to continue their monopoly, but to obtain greater powers. This Bill would give them the statutory right to supply not only gas, but also electricity, which would keep from this representative body one of the primary functions for which the local body was created. I hope this House will pause before it initiates such a precedent. It is proposed in this Bill to increase the capital to three times its present value—to increase the capital, which was originally £2,500—which was written up to £5,000—to £15,000. That proceeding might be quite right if the local representative authority was not a possible purchaser. Therefore, when purchase came to be considered by arbitration, the market price would start from £15,000 instead of £5,000. This procedure on the part of the private persons promoting this Bill throws a suspicion upon the whole thing, and we ought to be very careful not to do anything to induce other companies to interfere with the rights of these representative bodies. I want the representative body of Omagh to have fair play, which it will not get if this Bill becomes law.


said the hon. Gentleman had just stated that in case of purchase by the local authority, if this Bill became law, the value of the undertaking would start at a statutory value of £15,000.

SIR WALTER FOSTER (Derbyshire, Ilkeston)

Hear, hear!


said the concluding portion of Clause 70 provided as follows:— But the arbitrator shall not in assessing the sum to be paid by the council to the company have regard to the fact that the company is incorporated by this Act. That meant that the arbitrator had not to take into account the statutory value in this Act. They must deal with this question all round, and buy on fair marketable terms. The chairman of the Commission which inquired into the affairs of this company was asked whether they would be allowed to open the streets under the Bill, and he replied that that would be a matter for consideration. If the local authority declined to allow them to open the streets and extend their mains, and make other improvements, what was the use of the gas company?

MR. TULLY (Leitrim, S.)

Will the hon. Member tell us where he gets that legal decision?


said he was simply quoting the statement of the chairman of the Commission. The local authority might have acquired this property twenty-two years ago. Omagh was then governed by town commissioners, and they could have put the Public Health Act into operation in 1878. It had been said that the company gave a pledge never to exceed more than 5 per cent. interest, but that was one of those dreamy statements for which they had never been able to get black and white. The company doubled its capital without one solitary expression of dissent from the inhabitants of Omagh. The shareholders had accepted a 5 per cent. dividend, and the profits had accumulated, but supposing they had been taking the usual 7 to 10 per cent. upon the original capital, with compound interest, what did it matter what the capital was placed at. It was transfer capital, transferred from shareholder to shareholder. He had read the clause which enabled them to sell the undertaking under the direction of a public arbitrator appointed by the Local Government Board, who was to say what was the value between man and man, and the county council was to have the undertaking at its value to-day. Could there ever be a fairer way of acquiring property? If there was anything that should command the respect of Parliament it was that they should deal out justice to all alike; yet they were going to take away from a poor country like Ireland this undertaking, now that they had obtained the power, and they desired to take it over at an unjust price. The company could not have entered into this undertaking unless they had come to the House and obtained statutory powers. They could not have put up an electric lamp without coming here first. The hon. Member who had moved the motion had told the House that the governing power at Omagh was Nationalist. He did not think that was a wise statement to make. This matter could be debated as a matter far removed from any political standpoint; it was not a party question, and could be debated upon the ordinary lines of commercial justice. He had heard a whisper that the Bill passed through the House of Lords Committee as an unopposed Bill. That was not the fact; it was cruelly opposed, and it was only after the most careful scrutiny that the Committee passed the Bill, and that it had come down to this House. It was not the fault of the company that this Bill had gone before a Committee of the House of Lords; that was the fault of the arrangements of the House, which divided these Bills between the two Houses. The House of Lords had given the matter its full consideration and had passed the Bill. Surely under those circumstances the House would allow it to reach the Committee stage. Such a proceeding would be tantamount to saying that it was sufficient for this House to know two things in order to throw it out; first, that the Bill was promoted by a company, and second, that it had been passed by a House of Lords Committee. All that the company, which had been in existence for fifty years, asked was an act of justice. He hoped that the House, by an overwhelming majority, would reject the new idea, and not reject the Bill because it had been passed by the House of Lords, but that it would send the Bill in the ordinary way to a Committee, where evidence could be heard and the Bill dealt with on its merits.


hoped that the House would be allowed soon to come to a division upon this question, most of the points of which had been thoroughly threshed out. The hon. Gentleman in his defence of this gas company had stated that the town commissioners would practically throttle the company by refusing to allow it to break up the roads, but the local council, of which he was a member, had obtained a legal opinion upon that very point, and the effect of the opinion was that their powers to do so were involved in great obscurity.


said he merely gave his opinion upon that point. There was a very old saying that counsel's opinion depended upon the case he had placed before him. He might say he had equally strong opinions upon his side.


said there was a recent decision in an English case. The whole of the case rested upon the point whether they were going to tie up local government by Bills of this kind, which would have the effect of crushing an electric system in Omagh; it would mean that men who desired to start a small industry would be practically prohibited, and all machinery driven by gas would be practically prohibited in Omagh if such a Bill as this were passed. One further point to which he wished to call attention was the way in which the price had risen to £15,000. Why was £15,000 selected as the price? The valuation of Omagh was £12,000, and under their borrowing powers they could only borrow to the extent of twice their valuation, that was to say £24,000, and as the urban council had borrowed for building artizans' houses and for waterworks, the object of inflating the capital was no doubt to prevent Omagh from acquiring the property. The real reason for the Bill was that the company wanted to stay electric progress in Omagh; consequently, when the progressive men of Omagh desired to use the water-power that was running to waste daily through their town, and they wanted to introduce electricity, with all the progress it brought in its train, into the town they were met by this Bill, which in his opinion ought to be rejected.

MR. FIELD (Dublin, St. Patrick)

said he understood that the Omagh Urban Council applied to the Local Government Board in the first instance, and the Local Government Board sanctioned the scheme. It seemed to him, therefore, that if this Bill was passed the House would be proceeding in a retrograde direction. The House of Commons had pointed the way in which they should go in all matters of public utility, and had shown that they should be directed either by county councils or the corporations of the towns. Why should an exception be made in regard to this company? There were clauses in the Bill which gave extensive powers to the company, and if these clauses were allowed to pass, this small company would be able to prey to any extent on the ratepayers. It was not for the benefit of the community that a small clique of private interested individuals should have the power of taxing the people of Omagh by charging an

enormous rate for gas. He hoped the House would reject the Bill by a large majority.

Question put.

The House divided:—Ayes, 184; Noes, 170. (Division List No. 172.)

Acl and-Hood, Capt. Sir Alex. F. Garfit, William Nicholson, William Graham
Anson, Sir William Reynell Gordon, Hn. J. E. (Elgin & Nairn Nicol, Donald Ninian
Arnold-Forster, Hugh O. Gorst, Rt. Hon. Sir John E. O'Neill, Hon. Robert Torrens
Atkinson, Rt. Hon. John Goulding, Edward Alfred Orr-Ewing, Charles Lindsay
Bain, Colonel James Robert Gray, Ernest (West Ham) Palmer, Walter (Salisbury)
Balcarres, Lord Greene, Sir E. W. (B'rySEdm'nds Pemberton, John S. G.
Balfour, Rt. Hn. A.J. (Manch'r Greene, Hy. D. (Shrewsbury) Penn, John
Balfour, Capt. C. B. (Hornsey) Guest, Hon. Ivor Churchill Pilkington, Lt.-Col. Richard
Bartley, George C. T. Gunter, Sir Robert Platt-Higgins, Frederick
Bathurst, Hon. Allen Benjamin Halsey, Thomas Frederick Plummer, Walter R.
Beach, Rt. Hn. Sir M.H.(Bristol Hamilton, Rt. Hn Lord G.(Mid'x) Powell, Sir Francis Sharp
Beach, Rt. Hn. W. W. B. (Hants Hamilton, Marq. of (L'nd'nd'y) Randles, John S.
Bigwood, James Hanbury, Rt. Hon. Robt. W. Rankin, Sir James
Blundell, Colonel Henry Hardy, L. (Kent, Ashford) Reid, James (Greenock)
Bond, Edward Haslam, Sir Alfred S. Renshaw, Charles Bine
Boulnois, Edmund Heath, Arthur H. (Hanley) Richards, Henry Charles
Bowles, T. Gibson (King's Lynn Heath, Jas. (Staffords., N. W.) Ridley. Hn. M. W. (Stalybridge
Brassey, Albert Hickman, Sir Alfred Ridley, S. Forde (Bethnal Green
Brodrick, Rt. Hn. St. John Higginbottom, S. W. Ritchie, Rt. Hn. Chas. Thomson
Brookfield, Colonel Montagu Hobhouse, Hy. (Somerset, E.) Ropner, Colonel Robert
Brunner, Sir John Tomlinson Howard, J. (Midd., Tottenham) Round, James
Brymer, William Ernest Hozier, Hon. James Henry Cecil Royds, Clement Molyneux
Bull, William James Hudson, George Bickersteth Sarckville, Col. S. G. Stopford-
Campbell, Rt. Hn J. A. (Glasgow Jebb, Sir Richard Claverhouse Sadler, Col. Samuel Alexander
Carson, Rt. Hon. Sir Edw. H. Jeffreys, Arthur Frederick Samuel, Harry S. (Limehouse
Cavendish, V. C. W.(Derbysh.) Johnstone, Heywood (Sussex) Scott, Sir S. (Marylebone, W.)
Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor) Kay-Shuttleworth, Rt.HnSirU Sharpe, William Edward T.
Cecil, Lord Hugh (Greenwich) Kenyon, Hon. Geo. T. (Denbigh Shaw-Stewart, M. H. (Renfrew)
Chamberlain, Rt. Hon. J. (Birm. Kenyon-Slaney, Col. W. (Salop Simeon, Sir Barrington
Chamberlain, J.Austen(Worc') Law, Andrew Bonor Skewes-Cox, Thomas
Chapman, Edward Lawrence, William F. Smith, HC. (North'd., Tyneside
Charrington, Spencer Lee, Arthur H. (Hants, Fareham Smith, James Parker (Lanarks.
Cochrane, Hon. Thos. H. A. E. Llewellyn, Evan Henry Smith, Hon. W. F. D. (Strand)
Coddington, Sir William Lockwood, Lt.-Col. A. R. Stanley, Hon Arthur(Ormskirk
Coghill, Douglas Harry Loder, Gerald Walter Erskine Stanley, Lord(Lancs.)
Cohen, Benjamin Louis Long, Col.Charles W.(Evesham Stewart, Sir Mark J.M Taggart
Collings, Rt. Hon. Jesse Long, Rt. Hn. Walter (Bristol, S Stroyan, John
Colomb, Sir John Chas. Ready Lonsdale, John Brownlee Sturt, Hon. Humphry Napier
Colston, Chas. Edw. H. Athole Lowe, Francis William Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester)
Corbett, T. L. (Down, North) Lowther, RtHnJW(Cumb, Pen Thorburn, Sir Walter
Cranborne, Viscount Loyd, Archie Kirkman Thornton, Percy M.
Cripps, Charles Alfred Lucas, Col. Francis(Lowestoft) Tomlinson, Wm. Edw. Murray
Cubitt, Hon. Henry Lyttelton, Hon. Alfred Tufnell, Lieut.-Col. Edward
Denny, Col. Macartney, Rt Hn W. G. Ellison Walrond, Rt.Hon. Sir Wm. H.
Dewar, T. R. (T'rH'mlts, S. Geo. MacIver, David (Liverpool) Wanklyn, James Leslie
Dickson, Charles Scott M'Arthur, Charles (Liverpool) Warr, Augustus Frederick
Dorington, Sir John Edward M'Calmont, Col. J. (Antrim, E.) Wason, John Cathcart (Orkney)
Doughty, George Maple, Sir John Blundell Welby, Lt.-Col. ACE (Taunton)
Doxford, Sir William Theodore Mellor, Rt.Hon. John William Wharton, Rt. Hn. J. Lloyd
Dyke, Rt. Hon. Sir Wm. H. Melville, Beresford Valentine Whiteley, H. (Ashton-u.-Lyne)
Egerton, Hon. A. de Tatton Meysey-Thompson, Sir H. M. Williams, Col. R. (Dorset)
Elliot, Hon. A. Ralph Douglas Middlemore, John T. Wills, Sir Frederick
Fardell, Sir T. George Milton, Viscount Wilson, John (Glasgow)
Fellowes, Hon. Ailwyn Edw. Milward, Colonel Victor Wilson, J. W. (Worcestersh, N.
Fergusson, Rt. Hn. Sir J. (Manc'r Montagu, G. (Huntingdon) Wilson-Todd, Wm. H. (Yorks.)
Fielden, Edward Brocklehurst Morgan, D. J. (Walthamstow) Wodehouse, Rt. Hn. E. R. (Bath
Finch, George H. Morton, Arthur H. A. (Deptford Wolff, Gustav Wilhelm
Finlay, Sir Robert Bannatyne Mount, William Arthur Wrightson, Sir Thomas
Fisher, William Hayes Mowbray, Sir Robert Gray C.
Fitzmaurice, Lord Edmond Murray, Rt. Hon A Graham (Bath
Fitzroy, Hon. Edward A. Murray, Charles J. (Coventry) TELLERS FOR THE AYES—
Flower, Ernest Myers, William Henry Sir James Haslett and Mr.
Forster, Henry William Newdigate, Francis Alexander William Johnson.
Abraham, William (Cork, N. E. Goddard, Daniel Ford O'Donnell, T. (Kerry, W.)
Allan, William (Gateshead) Gordon, Maj. Evans-(TrH'lets) O'Dowd, John
Allen, Charles P. (Glouc., Stroud Grant, Corrie O'Kelly, Conor (Mayo, N.)
Ambrose, Robert Gurdon, Sir W. Brampton O'Kelly, J. (Roscommon, N.)
Archdale, Edward Mervyn Hammond, John O'Malley, William
Asher, Alexander Hardie, J. K. (Merthyr Tydvil) O'Shaughnessy, P. J.
Austin, Sir John Hayden, John Patrick Palmer, Sir C. M. (Durham)
Barry, E. (Cork, S.) Hayne, Rt. Hon. Chas. Seale- Palmer, George W. (Reading)
Bayley, Thomas (Derbyshire) Hayter, Rt. Hon. Sir Arthur D. Paulton, James Mellor
Beaumont, Wentworth C. B. Helme, Norval Watson Pease, Herbt. P. (Darlington)
Bell, Richard Hemphill, Rt. Hon. Charles H. Power, Patrick Joseph
Black, Alexander William Hoare, Sir Samuel (Norwich) Rasch, Maj. Frederic Carne
Blake, Edward Hobhouse, C. E. H. (Bristol, E.) Rea, Russell
Boland, John Holland, William Henry Redmond, John E. (Waterford)
Boyle, James Hope, John D. (Fife, West) Redmond, William (Clare)
Brigg, John Horniman, Frederick John Reed, Sir Edw. Jas. (Cardiff)
Broadhurst, Henry Hutton, Alfred E. (Morley) Reid, Sir R. T. (Dumfries)
Bryce, Rt. Hon. James Jacoby, James Alfred Renwick, George
Bullard, Sir Harry Joicey, Sir James Rickett, J. Compton
Burke, E. Haviland- Jones, Dav. Brynmor (Swansea) Rigg, Richard
Buxton, Sydney Charles Jordan, Jeremiah Roberts, John H. (Denbighs.)
Caine, William Sproston Joyce, Michael Robertson, Edmund (Dundee)
Caldwell, James Kennedy, Patrick James Roche, John
Cameron, Robert Lambert, George Scott, Chas. P. (Leigh)
Campbell, John (Armagh, S.) Langley, Batty Shaw, Thomas (Hawick B.)
Campbell-Bannerman, Sir H. Leamy, Edmund Shipman, Dr. John G.
Carew, James Laurance Leith, Sir Joseph Sinclair, Capt. J. (Forfarshire
Carvill, Patrick Geo. Hamilton Leng, Sir John Soames, Arthur Wellesley
Channing, Francis Allston Levy, Maurice Soares, Ernest J.
Condon, Thomas Joseph Lewis, John Herbert Stevenson, Francis S.
Craig, Robert Hunter Lloyd-George, David Strachey, Edward
Crean, Eugene Lough, Thomas Sullivan, Donal
Cremer, William Randal Lundon, W. Taylor, Theodore Cooke
Crombie, John William Macdona, John Cumming Thomas, Alfred (Glamorgan, E.
Cullinan, J. Macnamara, Dr. Thomas J. Thomas, David Alfred (Merth'r
Davies, Alfred (Carmarthen) MacNeill, John Gordon Swift Thomas, F. Freeman-(Hastings
Delany, William M'Crae, George Thompson, Dr EC (M'n'ghan, N.
Dewar, John A. (Inverness-sh.) M'Dermott, Patrick Thomson, F.W. (York, W.R.)
Dilke, Rt. Hon. Sir Charles M'Fadden, Edward Trevelyan, Charles Philips
Dillon, John M'Govern, T. Tully, Jasper
Donelan, Captain A. M'Kenna, Reginald Walton, Joseph (Barnsley)
Doogan, P. C. M'Laren, Charles Benjamin Warner, Thomas Courtenay T.
Douglas, Charles M. (Lanark) Mather, William Wason, Eugene (Clackmannan
Duffy, William J. Morgan, J. Lloyd (Carmarthen) Weir, James Galloway
Duncan, J. Hastings Morley, Charles (Breconshire) White, George (Norfolk)
Edwards, Frank Morris; Hon. Martin Henry F. White, Luke (York, E. R.)
Elibank, Master of Moss, Samuel White, Patrick (Meath, North
Ellis, John Edward Murphy, J. Whitley, J. H. (Halifax)
Emmott, Alfred Nannetti, Joseph P. Whittaker, Thomas Palmer
Evans, Sir F. H. (Maidstone) Nolan Joseph (Louth, South) Williams, Osmond (Merioneth)
Farquharson, Dr. Robert Norman, Henry Wilson, F. W. (Norfolk, Mid)
Ffrench, Peter Norton, Capt. Cecil William Wilson, H. J. (York, W. R.)
Field, William Nussey, Thomas Willans Young, Samuel (Cavan, East)
Flavin, Michael Joseph O'Brien, James F. X. (Cork) Yoxall, James Henry
Flynn, James Christopher O'Brien, Kendal (Tipperary M'd
Foster, Sir Walter (Derby Co.) O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny) TELLERS FOR THE NOES—
Furness, Sir Christopher O'Brien, P. J. (Tipperary, N.) Mr. Murnaghan and Mr. O'Doherty.
Gilhooly, James O'Connor, J. (Wicklow, W.)

Resolutions agreed to.

Main Question put, and agreed to. Bill read a second time, and committed.