HC Deb 25 March 1901 vol 91 cc1221-7

3. "That a Supplementary sum, not exceeding £2,000, be granted to His Majesty, to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1901, for expenditure in respect of Diplomatic and Consular Buildings."

4."That a Supplementary sum, not exceeding £7,000, be granted to His Majesty, to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1901, for the Expenses of the Post Office, and Post Office Telegraph Buildings in Great Britain, including Furniture, Fuel, and Sundry Miscellaneous services."

Third Resolution:—

Motion made, and Question proposed, "That this House doth agree with the Committee in the said Resolution."

MR. WILLIAM REDMOND

said he hoped the right hon. Gentleman would give some details of the Vote.

THE FIRST COMMISSIONER OF WORKS (Mr. AKERS DOUGLAS,St. Augustine's) Kent,

said that the Supplementary Estimates were partly occasioned by changes in Embassies abroad. Further, at Lisbon the sanitary arrangements, which were entirely wrong, had to be set right.

MR. FLAVIN

asked why a house which was suitable for the previous occupant was not suitable for his successor.

MR. AKERS DOUGLAS

said that he thought that a house that had been occupied for five or six years by an Ambassador and his family required a certain amount of painting and alteration when it was vacated.

Fourth Resolution:—

Motion made, and Question proposed, "That this House doth agree with the Committee in the said Resolution."

MR. FLAVIN

said that in connection with the Vote they had pressed the right hon. Gentleman very strongly to give some information as to the contracts. In July, 1900, Her Majesty's Government entered into a contract for the supply of fuel for a period of six months, and in some cases for fifteen months, when fuel was at its highest price. If the right hon. Gentleman was catering for his own household he would not enter into such a contract at that time. They had failed to obtain the name of the mine owner who supplied the fuel, and also as to whether the lowest tender was accepted. They had also asked, in Committee, for information as to household articles referred to in the Vote, and as to whether they were manufactured in England or Ireland. The right hon. Gentleman and his officials were directly responsible for having entered into a contract for fuel when coal was at its highest price. Anyone who knew the conditions of the coal market knew very well that the price could not have gone higher, and he could not see any justification or excuse for such a transaction.

MR. AKERS DOUGLAS

said that in regard to the coal contract tenders were asked from all the firms in South Wales who supplied the kind of coal they re- quired. They accepted the two lowes tenders which were made. As to the length of the contracts, in the first instance the contract was for six months and in the other instance for three months.

MR. FLYNN

said they all acknow ledged the conciliatory tone of the right hon. Gentleman, and his desire to explair as well as he could the various items in the Vote, but surely he would recognise that no private individual in conducting his business would consider it good accounting that the original Estimate should be exceeded by 50 per cent. If these Supplementary Estimates merely represented small amounts they might be explained on the ground that they were almost inevitable, but with a few I exceptions the Supplementary Estimates were for large and alarming amounts.

MR. POWER

said that the prediction of the state of things which would follow the new rule introduced by the First Lord of the Treasury had been borne out by what had taken place. If the officials who made up original Estimates came to believe that Supplementary Estimates would pass without criticism they would become careless in the preparation of the Estimates. No good business man in the conduct of his own affairs would be so very much out of his calculation as the Government appeared to be in regard to these Estimates.

MR. NANNETTI

said there were coalfields in Ireland that might have been utilised. There were districts in Ireland where, he was happy to say, coal was being produced at 10s. per ton. He would suggest to the right hon. Gentleman the First Commissioner of Works that the Government would be doing a good act if they encouraged the Irish to develop the coalfields of the country. That question might be worthy of the consideration of the Cabinet.

MR. CULLINAN (Tipperary, S.)

said that as a new Member he would state the opinion he had formed in regard to the manner in which the Estimates were prepared. In local boards throughout the country the Estimates when submitted gave details in order that the members of those boards might perfectly understand what was to be done with the money. He found the Estimates submitted in that House did not give the details they ought to give. When this matter was before them on a previous occasion they had what was described as an unpleasant and disgraceful scene in the House. Why was that? It was because the information asked by the Nationalist Members was not supplied. It was a most unbusinesslike method to

have these large accounts lumped together with no details, and so far as he was concerned he would, while he was in that House, try to resist the system and press every Minister to give information as to how the money was expended. Question put.

The House divided:—Ayes, 182, Noes, 49. (Division List No. 101.)

AYES.
Acland-Hood, Capt. Sir Alex. F. Gray, Ernest (West Ham) Palmer, Walter (Salisbury)
Agnew, Sir Andrew Noel Greene, Sir E. W. (B'rySEdm'ds) Penn, John
Anson, Sir William Reynell Greene, Henry D. (Shrewsbury) Platt-Higgins, Frederick
Archdale, Edward Mervyn Greene, W. Raymond-(Cambs.) Plummer, Walter R.
Arkwright, John Stanhope Grenfell, William Henry Pretyman, Ernest George
Arnold-Forster, Hugh O. Gretton, John Priestley, Arthur
Asher, Alexander Greville, Hon. Ronald Pryce-Jones, Lt.- Col. Edward
Ashmead-Bartlett, Sir Ellis Hamilton, Rt Hn Lord G.(M'dx) Purvis, Robert
Atkinson, lit. Hon. John Hardy, Laurence (Kent, Ashf'd Radcliffe, R. F.
Bain, Colonel James Robert Hare, Thomas Leigh Reckitt, Harold James
Balfour, Rt. Hn. A.J. (Manch'r Hay, Hon. Claude George Reid, James (Greenock)
Balfour, Rt. Hn Gerald W. (Leeds Hayne, Rt. Hn. Charles Seale- Remnant, James Farquharson
Bathurst, Hon. Allen Benjamin Heath, James (Staffords., N.W. Rentoul, James Alexander
Beach, Rt. Hn. SirM. H. (Bristol) Hobhouse, Henry (Somerset,E. Ridley, Hn. M. W. (Stalybridge
Bell, Richard Hope, J F(Sheffield, Brightside Ridley, S. Forde (Bethnal Green
Bentinck, Lord Henry C. Howard, Capt J (Kent, Faversh. Rigg, Richard
Bignold, Arthur Johnston, William (Belfast) Ritchie, Rt. Hn. Chas. Thomson
Blundell, Colonel Henry Johnstone, Heywood (Sussex) Robertson, Herbert (Hackney)
Brand, Hon. Arthur G. Joicey, Sir James Roe, Sir Thomas
Brodrick, Rt. Hon. St. John Jones, William (Carnarvonsh.) Ropner, Colonel Robert
Brookfield, Colonel Montagu Kenyon, Hon. Geo. T. (Denbigh) Royds, Clement Molyneux
Bull, William James Kenyon-Slaney, Col. W. (Salop. Sackville, Col. S. G. Stopford-
Bullard, Sir Harry Keswick, William Samuel, S. M. (Whitechapel)
Butcher, John George Knowles, Lees Sassoon, Sir Edward Albert
Caldwell, James Lambton, Hon. Frederick Wm. Scott, Sir S. (Marylebone, W.)
Cautley, Henry Strother Lawson, John Grant Seton-Karr, Henry
Cavendish, R. F. (N. Lancs. Legge, Col. Hon. Heneage Sharpe, William Edward T.
Cavendish, V. C. W.(Derbysh. Leigh-Bennett, Henry Currie Shipman, Dr. John G.
Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor) Leveson-Gower, Frederick NS. Simeon, Sir Harrington
Cecil, Lord Hugh (Greenwich) Levy, Maurice Sinclair, Capt. J. (Forfarshire)
Chamberlain, Rt. Hon. J. (Birm.) Lockwood, Lt.-Col. A. R. Smith, HC (Northumb Tyns'ide)
Chamberlain, J Austen(Worc'r) Long, Col. Chas. W. (Evesham) Smith, James Parker (Lanarks.)
Chapman, Edward Long, Rt. Hn. Walter (Bristol, S. Smith, Hon. W. F. D. (Strand)
Churchill, Winston Spencer Loyd, Archie Kirkman Spencer, Rt. Hn CR(Northants)
Cochrane, Hon. Thos. H. A. E. Lucas, Col. Francis (Lowestoft) Stanley, Lord (Lancs.)
Collings, Rt. Hon. Jesse Lucas Reginald J. (Portsmouth Stock, James Henry
Corbett, A. Cameron (Glasgow Macdona, John Cumming Talbot. Lord E. (Chichester)
Cranborne, Viscount MacIver, David (Liverpool) Talbot, Rt. Hn. J. G. (Oxf'dUniv.
Cubitt, Hon. Henry M'Arthur, Charles (Liverpool) Thomas, F. Freenman-(Hastings
Dalkeith, Earl of Majendie, James A. H. Thornton, Percy M.
Davies, Sir Horatio D. (Chatham Malcolm, Ian Tollemache, Henry James
Dickson, Charles Scott Maxwell, W.J.(Dumfriesshire Ure, Alexander
Douglas, Rt. Hon. A. Akers- Melville, Beresford Valentine Valentia, Viscount
Durning-Lawrence, Sir Edwin Middlemore, J. Throgmorton Walker, Col. William Hall
Egerton, Hon. A. de Tatton Molesworth, Sir Lewis Walton, Joseph (Barnsley)
Elibank, Master of Montagu, G (Huntingdon) Warde, Lieut.-Col. C. E.
Fardell, Sir T. George More, R. Jasper (Shropshire) Wason, JohnCathcart (Orkney
Fellowes, Hon. Ailwyn Edward Morgan, D. J. (Walthamstow Welby, Sir Charles G. E. (Notts.
Fenwick, Charles Morley, Charles (Breconshire White, George (Norfolk)
Fielden, Edward Brocklehurst Morrell, George Herbert White, Luke (York, E.R.)
Finch, George H. Morrison, James Archibald Whiteley, H.(Ashton-under-L.
Finlay, Sir Robert Bannatyne Morton, Edw. J. C. (Devonport) Williams, Colonel R. (Dorset)
Fisher, William Hayes Mowbray, Sir Robert Gray G. Willox, Sir John Archibald
Fletcher, Sir Henry Muntz, Philip A. Wilson, Arthur S. (York,E.R.
Gladstone, Rt.HnHerbert John Murray, Rt. Hn. A. G. (Bute) Wilson, John (Glasgow)
Godson, Sir Augustus Frederick Murray, Charles J. (Coventry) Wortley, Rt. Hon. C. B. Stuart-
Gordon, Maj. E. (T'wer H'mlts) Murray, Col. Wyndham (Bath) Wyndham, Rt. Hon. George
Gore, Hon. F. S. Ormsby- Newdigate, Francis Alexander Young, Commander (Berks, E.)
Gorst, Rt. Hon. Sir John Eldon Nicholson, William Graham
Goschen, Hon. George Joachim Nicol, Donald Ninian TELLERS FOR THE AYES
Goulding, Edward Alfred O'Neill, Hon. Robert Torrens Sir William Walrond and Mr. Anstruther.
Graham, Henry Robert Orr-Ewing, Charles Lindsay
NOES.
Abraham, Wm. (Cork, N.E.) Goddard, Daniel Ford O'Doherty, William
Ambrose, Robert Hardie, J. K. (MerthyrTydvil) O'Donnell, T. (Kerry, W.)
Boyle, James Hayden, John Patrick O'Dowd, John
Burke, E. Haviland- Jameson, Maj. J. Eustace O'Malley, William
Campbell, John (Armagh, S.) Joyce, Michael O'Shaughnessy, P. J.
Clancy, John Joseph Leamy, Edmund Power, Patrick Joseph
Condon, Thomas Joseph Lundon, W. Reddy, M.
Crean, Eugene MacDonnell, Dr. Mark A. Redmond, J. E. (Waterford)
Cullinan, J. M'Dermott, Patrick Redmond, William (Clare)
Delany, William M'Fadden, Edward Sullivan, Donal
Doogan, P. C. M'Killop, W. (Sligo, North) Trevelyan, Charles Philips
Duffy, William J. Mooney, John J. Weir, James Galloway
Duncan, James H. Murphy, J. Whitley, J. H. (Halifax)
Ffrench, Peter Nannetti, Joseph P.
Field, William Nolan, Joseph (Louth, South) TELLERS FOR THE NOES
Flavin, Michael Joseph O'Brien, K. (Tipperary, Mid.) Captain Donelan and Mr. Patrick O'Brien.
Flynn, James Christopher O'Connor, Jas. (Wicklow, W.)
Gilhooly, James O'Connor, T. P. (Liverpool)

Question put and agreed to.