§ MR. A. J. BALFOURI rise to make the motion, "That Government business have precedence this day and to-morrow of all other business." Perhaps it would be well to remind the House that, though the resolution is very accurately stated from a technical point of view, it really is, in substance, rather a misleading resolution. The resolution is not to facilitate Government business in the ordinary sense of the word. It really is to facilitate the task of the critics of the Government and give those critics wider opportunities for exercising their rights. We ask no privileges or advantages for Government legislation. The motion is simply aimed at enabling us to get through absolutely necessary Supply before March 31st.
§ MR. CREMER (Shoreditch, Haggerston)I rise to a point of order. Several hon. Members are afraid that if this motion is carried it will deprive them of their opportunity to-morrow.
§ MR. A. J. BALFOURThe hon. Member had better wait and hear what I have to say. I am making the motion in this unusual form because I am getting somewhat alarmed as to the amount of time which will be available for dealing with Supply before that date. This year March 31st falls on a Sunday, so that that day and March 30th are not available for dealing with Supply before the end of the financial year. It will therefore be necessary to introduce the Appropriation Bill upon Monday, March 25th. If that were done, the Second Reading would be taken on Tuesday, March 26th. the Committee stage, on which no discussion can take place, on Wednesday, March 27th, and the Third Reading on March 28th. It would, I believe, be possible to defer the First Reading to Tuesday, March 26th, but if that were done, private Members would be deprived of Wednesday for the discussion of private Members' Bills, because 1210 the Second Reading would fall on that day. I therefore take Monday, March 25th. Before and including March 25th, we shall have fifteen days only for the discussion, in the first place, of the Civil Service, the Navy, and the Army Supplementary Estimates, and, in the second place, for getting the Speaker out of the chair and obtaining Vote A and Vote I of the two spending Departments and a Vote on Account. All these financial operations must be got through before the Appropriation Bill is introduced; and in addition to that we have, out of the fifteen days, to find one—which will, I think be an early one —on which the Chancellor of the Exchequer will make his statement on the subject of the Civil List in connection with the appointment of the Committee by which that Civil List is to considered and discussed in the first instance. That practically reduces us to fourteen days for the discussion of all that financial business. I wish I could think fourteen days was an excessive calculation; but I find that last year we took sixteen nights to get through the corresponding business of last year, and there were not last year, as unfortunately there are this year, largo Navy Supplementary Votes to consider in addition to Civil Service and Army Supplementary Votes. I am sorry to say that the Supplementary Votes this year are rather formidable in their amount. There are, I believe, over £1,000,000 Civil Service Supplementary Estimates, over £1,000,000 Navy Supplementary Estimates, and over £3,000,000 Army Supplementary Estimates. The mere magnitude of a Vote is, I know, no certain index of the amount of discussion it will legitimately provoke; but when I look at the figures I feel it is not improbable that the House will wish to devote quite as much, if not more, time this year to the discussion of the Supplementary Estimates as it did last year and on some preceding occasions. That is not all. The operation of getting the Speaker out of the chair for Naval and Military Supply is the proper and the best occasion on which to discuss those large questions of policy raised by the statements of the Ministers responsible for these two great Departments; and, as we have made no secret that we have proposals to make with regard to the Army, I cannot doubt that the House will desire very full opportunity for consider- 1211 ing and discussing the statement of my right hon. friend the Secretary of State for War. And, as there is a large increase on the Naval Estimates of the preceding year, I doubt not that on the Naval Vote also discussion will be asked for, and no doubt will be required. In these circumstances, I think, the House, not at all in the interests of the Government, but in the interests of its own rights of criticising the Government, should do all it can, as I am sure it will, to help us to find time for dealing within the legal limits with this large mass of financial business. But I do not see how that important end can be attained unless the House will allow us to start upon this work on Thursday next with, as it were, a clear run before us. It is for this reason that I have asked the House to allow us at the conclusion of the debate on the Address immediately to set to work upon those preparatory resolutions without which we cannot deal with this mass of financial business. I need hardly say that I am very anxious not to interfere with the discussion of the private Bill which stands first to morrow, and I see no reason any such interference should take place. I am very anxious not to interfere with the discussion of private Members' Bills. If I have convinced the House that we come forward and ask for no privileges to advance our own particular business, if we make no request to monopolise the time of the House beyond keeping up with our own particular business—if the House is satisfied, as I hope it is, that I am asking nothing beyond the time necessary to carry our financial proposals —then I think we ought to be able to do all the business on the Paper in the course of this evening, leaving to-morrow quite clear for the purpose desired by the hon. Member in charge of the Bill.
§ Motion made, and Question proposed, "That Government business have precedence this day and to-morrow of all other business."—(Mr. A. J. Balfour.)
§ SIR H. CAMPBELL-BANNERMAN (Stirling Burghs)The formidable and, I would say, beyond all doubt the unprecedented inroad which the right hon. Gentleman proposes to make upon the opportunities for free and full discussion in this House—that inroad the right hon. Gentleman bases on what he calls the exigencies of the situation. But this in- 1212 road is made necessary not by the exigencies of the situation, but because the Government have failed to appreciate and provide for those exigencies There is not a circumstance that the right hon. Gentleman has referred to that was not in the knowledge of every Member of this House weeks and weeks ago. To begin with, he knew, and we knew, that there was to be and that there must be a very full opportunity for debate under the present circumstances on the Address in reply to the Speech from the Throne. That was the distinct and clear understanding on all hands. The right hon. Gentleman knew the day of the week on which the 1st of April falls; even that the Government might have known after careful inquiry. The financial position in which they must find themselves was well known. It was well known to all of us that the Chancellor of the Exchequer would have a heavy task to undertake to meet and set in order the financial requirements of this year and next year. The only element of novelty in the whole range of circumstances to which I refer is the question of the settlement of the Civil List; and surely the appointment of a Committee for that purpose need not occupy any long space of time. So that the question which every Member is entitled to ask is—"Why did you not foresee this position Why did you not call Parliament together earlier?" It was even contemplated, I understand, to call Parliament together later still, but that project was fortunately abandoned; and now we are in that position in which many of us foresaw that the proceedings of the Government would land us. Who are to discuss all these important questions —these Supplementary Estimates, so large and important, the Civil Service Estimates, the Estimates for the Naval and Military services, the general scheme of Army reform, which the Government is to put forward, the Estimates for next year—we are to discuss these and many other things in a helter-skelter fashion, and we know we shall be told that if we do not cut the debate short no time will be left for the completion of the necessary business. In the difficulty in which we are landed it is not easy to see how something of this kind is to be avoided, and I agree with the right hon. Gentleman; but my argument is that it is his fault that we are in this position. Even the Secretary of State for the Colonies must 1213 see this when he thinks it over more carefully. If the step I suggested, of calling Parliament together earlier, had been adopted, it would have, if not completely obliterated the difficulty, greatly modified the pressure on hon. Members. As things are, what can we do? We have the proposal of the Government, which in itself does not seem to be a strange one under the circumstances; but there is one fact which arouses astonishment—the interference with Wednesdays. There was a complete understanding that no Wednesday was to be interfered with up to Easter. Members came to me on all sides who were desirous of introducing Bills and asked me if Wednesdays were likely to be available, and I said, I was given to understand that no Wednesday would be taken before Easter. Now the first Wednesday is to be taken or may be taken. I do not think that is in accordance with the arrangement which was made. I do not know how the matter stands with regard to to-morrow, because the light hon. Gentleman says he may not require to take tomorrow. If to-morrow is taken it will be contrary to the promise made.
§ MR. A. J. BALFOURI never made such a promise.
§ SIR II. CAMPBELL-BANNERMANOh, yes.
§ MR. A. J. BALFOURJust read the promise I made.
§ SIR. H. CAMPBELL-BANNERMANIt was an understanding that no Wednesday was to be taken up to Easter.
* MR. JAMES LOWTHERsaid he had had on many occasions to protest against arrangements such as this, and, therefore, on this occasion he wished to say why, in his opinion, the right hon. Gentleman was justified in taking the action he now proposed. In past years Governments were constantly getting into a fix with regard to the financial business of the House by devoting their time to the furthering of political measures; they then came down and laid claim to the time of private Members for the purpose of disposing of the financial business. In this case, as he understood, the Government proposed to devote the whole of 1214 their own time as well as any additional time which the House might assign to them wholly to financial business, and to such an arrangement he had no objection to offer, as it avoided the misappropriation of the time to be taken from private members. Something had been said with regard to not taking Wednesdays, but he had always contended that if a demand was to be made on the time of private Members that demand ought to be a consistent one, and ought to affect the time of private Members fairly and squarely all round. He therefore strongly urged the right hon. Gentleman not to be persuaded into giving up Wednesdays, on the public ground, and the public ground only, that the demand he had made was owing to the exigencies of the position in which the Government found themselves with regard to the essential financial business of the House.
§ SIR WILLIAM HARCOURT (Monmouthshire, W.)I do not know whether I correctly gathered what the right hon. Gentleman meant to convey, but I certainly understood the right hon. Gentleman to give a definite promise that tomorrow should be devoted to the Bill down as the first order of the day.
§ MR. A. J. BALFOURThat is my hope and expectation.
§ SIR WILLIAM HARCOURTI do not know in what sense that is meant. It rests with the Government, and I hope I may take it that it is quite certain and clear that the Bill will be taken tomorrow.
§ * MR. YOXALL (Nottinghamshire, W.),in moving the amendment that the words "and to-morrow" should be omitted from the motion, said that this was the first Wednesday available before Easter, there were only five Wednesdays in all before Easter, and after Easter all Wednesdays became very precarious so far as private Members were concerned. If the motion was passed almost every shred of private Members' time would be taken away in order to assist the Government. He had not long been a Member of the House, but he had sat long enough to see many of the rights— he would not say privileges of the private Members taken away. He would not have grumbled so much had there been, 1215 in his opinion, much necessity on the part I of the Government to make this encroachment on private Members' time, but the exigencies of the position must have been known both inside and outside the House for a considerable time. By the proposal to take every Tuesday before Easter balloting for Tuesdays for private Members' resolutions became an elaborate and solemn farce, yet it was religiously gone through once a week, and the Speaker was compelled by the rules of the House to take part in it, which was, to say the least, undignified. The right hon. Gentleman, in order to take away every Tuesday, suggested that he might also take the first Wednesday when, instead of a private Bill of great importance that was to be brought forward being discussed, the House would have to discuss financial business and Supplementary Estimates, which might very well have been discussed before the General Election.
§ MR. A. J. BALFOURMy hon. friend may take it that I do not press for tomorrow.
§ * MR. YOXALLsaid the House was now asked to debate financial matters which they were aware might have been discussed during the brief session before Christmas, and in support of that abuse the right of private Members to bring forward private Bills, which very frequently, resulted inmost important legislation, was to be taken away. He protested against it, and he asked the House to support him in his protest. It was not a question of party, it was a question of the right of 600 Members out of 670. The ballot had given him the opportunity to bring forward a Bill on Wednesday, and therefore he had been compelled to move the Amendment. On the following day a proposal was to come before the House of the greatest importance to half a million working men, who, with their wives and families, represented 2,500,000 of the subjects of the King. Fate and the fortune of the ballot had given that one opportunity for bringing in this measure, and all the arrangements which had been made to test the question in the House were to be upset by the proposal of the right hon. Gentleman. He appealed to private Members on the Government side of the House to support him in his Amendment. It would not mean the resignation of the Govern- 1216 ment nor another General Election. Hon. Members could in this case vote according to their own consciences without turning out the Government or losing their seats. The right hon. Gentleman had expressed the hope that it might not be necessary to take Wednesday. He was perfectly convinced that it would be taken from private Members. If the right hon. Gentleman was in earnest in his desire not to take Wednesday, which was sot down for the discussion of the Eight Hours Bill, would he at a reasonable hour that night ask the House to closure the debate on the Address, and then take the debate on the resolutions to which he had referred?
§ MR. BROADHURST (Leicester)I second the Amendment of my hon. friend with great pleasure. I join in the appeal to the Leader of the House that he should not disappoint the great national feeling with which the people have been looking forward to the debate on the Eight Hours Bill to-morrow. It is probably one of the most important labour questions that will come before the House during the present session. It has the first place for tomorrow, and I cannot imagine anything more mean for the Government to do, with several months before them for the transaction of business, than to commence this system of robbery so early in their Parliamentary career, and especially when that robbery takes effect in the way this motion would do. Who have heard that something like half a million workers are concerned in this great movement. These men are engaged at the imminent risk of their lives every day. They are engaged in the production of the first necessity for British commerce, and without it commerce would come to a stand.
§ * MR. SPEAKERasked the hon. Member to confine his remarks to the question before the House.
§ MR. BROADHURSTPerhaps I did wander from the point, but my desire was to emphasise the importance of having a discussion on this to-morrow. I hope the Leader of the House will alter his mind in this particular case, and accept the Amendment made by my hon. friend the Member for West Nottingham. If the Government are pressed hard for time for their financial business it is the fault of the Government themselves. They and they alone are to blame. I quite understand 1217 that this motion of the Leader of the House meets the views of the right hon. Gentleman the Member for Isle of Thanet, because he is generally against legislation except upon one or two particular subjects. If the Government would bring in a Bill which he approves of, no doubt he would support it. I sincerely trust that the Leader of the House, with his usual good nature, and I might say good sense, will accept this Amendment without a division. There is no other Member of this House who would have dared to make this motion except the Leader of the House. His manner is so seductive that really the same appeal from the mouth of any other Member of the Government would have led to universal screams of execration from this side of the House. We are always prevented when the right hon. Gentleman makes an appeal from giving vent in the volume we would otherwise do to our indignation. I strongly support the Amendment of my hon. friend.
§
Amendment proposed—
To leave out the words 'and To-morrow.'"—(Mr. Yoxall.)
§ Question proposed, "That the words 'and To-morrow' stand part of the Question."
§ MR. A. J. BALFOURI cannot help feeling that some Members of the House do not fully comprehend the purpose of my motion. Perhaps it is my own fault. There is no suggestion that tomorrow should be taken for Supply. We do not mean to take any business tomorrow except what remains over of the three first resolutions that stand on the Paper to-night. I do not see any reason whatever why the debate on the Miners Eight Hours Bill should be materially curtailed by the resolution I have brought before the House. I trust that the debate on the Address will be through very shortly. The first resolution deals with a universal desire on the part of Members of the House, the second deals with a rule which has been, year after year, approved by the House, and the only change I have introduced is one which is in favour of the critics of the Government.
§ MR. JOHN REDMONDThe right hon. Gentleman need have no fear at all 1218 about the House not having understood him on the previous occasion. I think so far as hon. Members on this side of the House are concerned that they perfectly understood what he was proposing and that he was making an exceedingly adroit move. Nobody here desires to prevent the discussion of this important Bill which concerns so many of the labouring classes of the country. We should be all exceedingly sorry to take any action which would prevent the discussion of the Bill. He has tried to use that knowledge as a screw upon us to prevent us from insisting upon the proper discussion of the remaining Amendments to the Address and the proper discussion. of his new resolutions. The way the matter stands is this—the right hon. Gentleman says to us, by putting Wednesday into this resolution, "If you don't conclude the debate on the Address tonight, and, in addition, if you do not to-night dispose of these three new resolutions, then I will take to-morrow away from the discussion of this important matter." He is therefore making an adroit move to force us into the position either of scamping the proper discussion of the grave questions involved in these three resolutions, or of having the appearance of interfering with the discussion to-morrow of this important Bill. The debate on the Amendment to the Address which has been moved, or is to be moved, by the hon. Member for East Mayo, raises an aspect of affairs in South Africa which has not been adequately discussed since the House met, and only this morning matters have transpired in the Papers laid on the Table, such as the correspondence between Lord Roberts and Louis Botha, which are of the utmost importance, and which have not been discussed at all. I think it would be a monstrous thing indirectly to put the screw upon us, so to speak, to prevent us having an adequate discussion of the Amendment of my hon. friend. I was astonished to hear the hon. Gentleman who moved the Amendment suggest that the debate on the Address should be closured at a convenient hour this evening, and that at ten or eleven o'clock tonight we could enter upon the task of discussing these three new resolutions with any hope of their being disposed of before the end of the sitting. The right hon. Gentleman the Leader of the House knows perfectly well that that kind of 1219 talk will not deceive anybody. The first resolution, which he speaks of making a small Amendment on the Standing Orders, is in itself a most novel, and I would say revolutionary, proposal which sweeps away at one stroke one of the only remaining privileges of private Members to raise discussion on Mr. Speaker leaving the chair when the House goes, into Committee of Ways and Means. I respectfully say that the first resolution ought, if properly discussed, to occupy an entire sitting of the House. Then the second resolution is one dealing with the arrangements about Supply, which, though it has been passed by the House since 1896, has never been acquiesced in, certainly, by Members sitting in this quarter of the House, and so far as it rests with us never will be passed by the House without considerable discussion and vehement opposition. The third resolution is one taking away from private Members all the Tuesdays up to Easter. It is ridiculous to think that these three resolutions can be disposed of in a portion of a sitting, as was suggested by the mover of the Amendment. If the Government are in a difficulty, as the Leader of the Opposition pointed out, then the responsibility and blame rests upon themselves. We in this quarter of the House are not interested in assisting the Government to get out of this difficulty. What I think would be the proper course to adopt would be for the Amendment of my hon. friend for East Mayo with reference to affairs in South Africa to be discussed fully at this sitting of the House, that to-morrow should be reserved, in accordance with what I certainly thought was a clear promise and understanding of the Government, for the discussion of this important English private Bill, and that the whole of the sitting on Thursday should be devoted to the consideration of these three very grave and serious resolutions which interfere with the few remaining rights of private Members. That would be the proper course. If the right hon. Gentleman was of opinion that the Address had been sufficiently debated it was his duty to have moved the closure yesterday or the day before. If he is not of opinion that the debate on the Address has been sufficiently prolonged, then the course I now suggest is the only one that will enable him to meet the difficulty in which he stands. By taking that course he will no doubt have to devote 1220 the sitting on Thursday to the discussion of the three resolutions instead of taking the Supplementary Estimates. He will lose a day by it, but that fault lies entirely with himself. Certainly on behalf of the Irish Members who come here to assert the liberty of speech which is very largely denied to them in Ireland, who come here not to assist the Government to do their business and to get them out of their difficulties, but to express their opinions on all matters of duty appointed to them, I protest against this proposal of the right hon. Gentleman. Notwithstanding the manner in which this Amendment was moved, I will vote for it, and I will vote in favour of any motion intended to thwart the intentions of the Government in depriving independent Members and private Members from the exercise of the few remaining privileges which they have of discussing matters of importance.
§ * MR. KEIR HARDIE (Merthyr Tydvil)I rise to join in the appeal to the Leader of the House in regard to this motion. There is one aspect of the question to which I would respectfully call his attention. It is now quite evident from what has been said by the hon. and learned Gentleman who has just sat down that the chances of the Eight Hours Bill coming on to-morrow, if this motion be agreed to, are exceedingly remote. I would remind the House, and the Leader of the House in particular, that this Bill is not one which can be treated as a little matter of no importance. It passed the second reading in this House some years ago, and was only defeated in Committee on one of its clauses through a misunderstanding. The Government, I submit, is pledged in regard to this matter. Some years ago the right hon. Gentleman the Colonial Secretary, in a speech in the county of Durham, distinctly enunciated an Eight Hours Bill for miners as part of the programme upon which the Unionist party was then appealing to the country. The Minors Eight Hours Bill has obtained a particularly favoured position for this session. It is an old friend of the House of Commons, but the feeling of the present House has not yet been tested in regard to the measure. The point to which I specially desire to direct the attention of the Leader of the House is that within the precincts of the House of Commons; at this moment there are scores of men 1221 from the mining districts of England, Scotland, and Wales who have come here at considerable expense in the expectation that that Bill would be taken to-morrow. If the motion of the right hon. Gentleman as it stands is agreed to the Bill will not be taken to-morrow, and all the expense which has been incurred by the working colliers in sending delegates will be wasted. That is an aspect of the matter which should not be overlooked. There is no question concerning which greater unanimity of opinion exists than the one down for discussion to morrow. Even as a matter of good tactics the Government would be well advised in agreeing at least to the spirit of the Amendment and giving us an undertaking that this Bill will be discussed to-morrow as one affecting the well-being of nearly three-quarters of a million of the most deserving members of the working classes of the country. For these reasons I add my appeal to those already made, in the expectation that the Government will agree to the proposal now before the House and give us an opportunity of ascertaining the real feeling of this Parliament in regard to a measure of so much importance.
§ SIR WILLIAM HARCOURTThis is a much more serious question than I think the right hon. Gentleman has yet realised. What does he think will be the opinion of the miners all over the country if they are told that the question in which they take so natural and deep an interest is to be sacrificed simply because there are enormous Supplementary Estimates and an unusual and unprecedented financial condition? I do not think that that will recommend the Supplementary Estimates or their objects to that class of the community. The hon. Member for Waterford has I think suggested a very practical and wise solution of the difficulty. I do not see what right or necessity the Government have for interposing as between to-day and to-morrow these three resolutions. They are absolutely unnecessary. The Government have what I call cornered the House, and they must take the consequences. What is the penalty they will suffer? They will possibly lose a day, more probably half a day, of Supply on Thursday. If the right hon. Gentleman will take these three resolutions not to-night or tomorrow, but upon Thursday, there will be a, security that the Eight Hours Miners 1222 Bill, which I venture to say is one of the most supreme consequence in the opinion of one of the largest communities of labour in this country, will come on on Wednesday, and then there will be very much less feeling than I think would arise if the Eight Hours Bill was disposed of in the way now contemplated. If this is not done, I venture to say that the persons interested in that Bill, when they perceive that subordinate resolutions have blocked the discussion of a matter of such vital importance to them, will consider that they have not been fairly treated. Therefore I hope the Government will adopt the suggestion of the hon. Member for Waterford and take these resolutions on Thursday.
§ MR. WILLIAM ABRAHAM (Glamorganshire, Rhondda)I wish to add my humble appeal to the First Lord of the Treasury. My appeal must be based on the importance of the question that we have at heart. It is perfectly clear that the question left for decision before it is possible to discuss the Bill we want considered is so important that there will be no chance whatever of discussing the Miners Eight Hours Bill. On behalf of that large body of men, as one of them, as one who has known what it is to earn his bread hewing coal, and to work long hours, I must say that it is our opinion, honestly, that if we get that Bill passed it will tend to decrease the number of lives that are lost. I know some question that statement, but that is our simple and honest opinion. Therefore, on behalf of a number of widows and orphans we once more ask the right hon. Gentleman to allow us to have the discussion. I do not know how it is, but there is a feeling among the miners of the country now that the question is ripe, and we have, therefore, been expecting a favourable result from the proceedings of to-morrow. I am not at all wishful to put anything in the way of the work the Government have to do, but, considering the fifteen days that we have in which to provide money for the killing of men or for armaments for that purpose, is it possible to believe that in the House of Commons of this great country we cannot have one day in which to discuss a matter whereby we may save a number of lives? I cannot believe it, and I appeal with all the earnestness of my heart that the right hon. Gentleman 1223 will allow us to have this debate tomorrow.
§ MR. LABOUCHERE (Northampton)There is an air about the right hon. Gentleman when he proposes resolutions of this sort that leads the House sometimes not to perceive their party astuteness. What are we discussing this evening? We are discussing the Address to the King. To that Address there are a number of Amendments, and one very important one has been moved by the hon. Member behind me. The right hon. Gentleman tells us that unless that discussion is brought to an end to-night, and unless we refrain from speaking upon that or any other matter with regard to the Address, and also from discussing fully the resolutions of the right hon. Gentleman, this Eight Hours Bill will not be allowed to be brought on to-morrow—by his direction. What is the aim of the right hon. Gentleman? It is to throw upon us the responsibility of his own acts. I rise simply to say that if the Minors Bill does not come on to-morrow we do not accept the responsibility. That must rest with the right hon. Gentleman. It is all the more hard, and I might almost say unfair, that the right hon. Gentleman should take away this day, because it is done not directly, but indirectly, insidiously, and contrary to a pledge, as I understand, given to the Leader of the Opposition.
§ MR. A. J. BALFOURNo.
§ MR. LABOUCHEREThe Leader of the Opposition certainly understood, as I gather, that the five Wednesdays before Easter were not to be taken. My right hon. friend, who is a practical business man, understood it in that sense, because, as he told us, when Members who had obtained a good place in the ballot went to him and asked what day they should take, he told them to take one of those Wednesdays. Even if you gave another day for the Miners Bill it would not occupy the position that it would by coming on the first Wednesday. We know that only three or four Bills at most taken after Whitsuntide can pass into law. Under these circumstances, as I do not believe the right hon. Gentleman is inclined to yield at all, I will only say that the First Lord and his followers must 1224 accept before the country the responsibility of what they are doing.
§ SIR FORTESCUE FLANNERY (Yorkshire, Shipley)So many appeals have been made to the right hon. Gentleman from the other side that I feel a certain measure of misunderstanding might easily arise if no appeal was made from this side. We have no desire to burke discussion on the Eight Hours Bill, but that is what will be said in the country by those who do not understand the forms of the House. It is easy enough to say that if hon. Members from Ireland were to curtail their discussions and if the House as a whole were to accept the resolutions as to Supply, this Bill would be reached absolutely without interference. Butin practice we know that hon. Gentlemen opposite will not curtail their discussion even for the purpose of allowing to be debated a Bill which may be the means of saving lives of men. Also in practice there will be many Members who will have much to say upon the resolution with regard to Supply. It seems to me that a fair compromise lies in the suggestion of the right hon. Gentleman the Member for West Monmouthshire. Let hon. Gentlemen opposite have the rest of to-day to discuss their Amendment to the Address, and let these Supply resolutions be dealt with on Thursday. If this is done I venture to prophesy, although my right hon. friend may not agree with me, that, having regard to this discussion and the car cession the First Lord might make if he would, it will lead to such a curtailment of the discussion on Thursday as would satisfy the right hon. Gentleman and give him the larger part of that day for the discussion of the important questions of finance which the Government, the House, and the country are so anxious to see dealt with.
§ MR. COCHRANE (Ayrshire, N.)May I add one word in support of my hon. Friend? If the right hon. Gentleman cannot see his way to grant this compromise he may be able to give a day for the discussion of this very important question. Not only in my own constituency, but throughout the country great interest is taken in this matter. I have always supported the Second Reading of the Eight Hours Bill. At the last election, however, no pledge was exacted 1225 from me in that respect, and I feel, therefore, the more honourably hound to endeavour to secure from the right hon. Gentleman a promise that if not at the present time, at the first convenient opportunity, this measure, in which so much interest is taken, should be adequately considered.
§ MR. DALZIEL (Kirkcaldy Burghs)I think the main feature of this discussion is that no single speaker has a word to say in defence of the action of the Government. The further the debate proceeds the more apparent it is that had the right hon. Gentleman not placed these resolutions on the Paper at all and suspended the Twelve o'clock Rule in the ordinary course, the probabilities are that be would have got the Address through to-night, we would have had the discussion on the Eight Hours Bill to-morrow, and he would have got his resolutions on Thursday. I am quite sure that would have been the result to-day. This seems to have been a case of bad generalship on the part of the right hon. Gentleman, and there does not appear to have been enough scouting on this question, as was the case in South Africa. It seems to me that it is unjust on the part of the right hon. Gentleman to refer to Members on this side of the House in the way which he did in his speech. No Member has a right to say that we shall not discuss vital and important resolutions, some of them being absolutely without precedent. I do not remember a single ease in the middle of a debate on the Address when a motion of this kind has been brought forward before. ["Oh, oh !"] My impression is that it is absolutely without precedent. Then another precedent is being set up with regard to Ways and Means. I totally disagree with the right hon. Gentleman when he says that it is a proposal which will not require much discussion. Why, this is one of the last opportunities which private Members can rely upon for the discussion of the most important questions upon going into Supply. It seems to me that the right hon. Gentleman has very much underestimated the importance of that particular resolution. It comes to this—that the very first opportunity we have for the discussion of this most important question the Government are going to take the Miners Bill away from us. After calculating all the chances as to a par- 1226 ticular day, I think I am correct in saying that that day was selected with the approval of very high authorities in this House. It seems to me that this division, if we go to it—and I do hope the right hon. Gentleman will make it unnecessary—will be a division on the Miners Eight Hours Bill plus the taking away of most important privileges from private Members. I do appeal to hon. Members opposite who are in the House for the first time to say a few words for the miners who supported them at the last election. I venture to say that there are not many Members representing miners who did not pledge themselves at the last election to support this Bill. At the General Election they promised to support this Bill, and they sit opposite because of their pledge to support this Bill, and they are now called upon practically to vote for or against the minors. It will not do to say it is a mere question of confidence in the Government. It will not do to say it is a square vote, and I hope hon. Members on the opposite side of the House will support us in the Division Lobby. I make this suggestion before I sit down, that the right hon. Gentleman should withdraw for the moment the resolution before the House and defer until Thursday the other resolutions, and appeal to the sense and fairness of the House to allow him to get this Address through on the present occasion. If he would do that—and we ought not to have been occupied with this discussion at all at this moment—it seems to me that all parties would be satisfied in that way. As the representative of a great many miners, I ask the right hon. Gentleman to let us have this discussion to-morrow. This is the first time that this Parliament has had an opportunity of discussing this question, and the first day which private Members have an opportunity of bringing in a Bill, and I hope the right hon. Gentleman will grant this appeal in some form or another.
§ MR. BARTLEY (Islington, N.)I have always been a great advocate of the rights of private Members, but circumstances vary. ["Oh, oh !"] Nobody can say, at any rate, that I do not always say what I think. Now what is the issue to-morrow? Hon. Members opposite talk about this as being a measure which the miners are all craving for. I have been a Member of this House for fifteen or sixteen years, and 1227 it has been brought forward for a good many years, and I have always found that there are two sets of miners—one fighting the other on this question. It is a matter in which the miners themselves are not nearly agreed, and in which the miners of the north are strongly opposed to the views of miners elsewhere. The Government are asking us to get to work on the great question of Army and Navy reform, and I urge the Government to use their full power to put this great subject before us and not waste any more time.
§ MR. SETON-KARR (St, Helens)I only wish to appeal to the Leader of the House to afford us an opportunity of discussing this Eight Hours Bill.
§ MR. A. J. BALFOURI have no objection to this Eight Hours Bill being discussed, but we must have the time for Supply.
§ MR. SETON-KARRI do not wish to suggest that the right hon. Gentleman had any intention of burking this discussion, but that is a construction that may be possibly put upon the action of the Government. If we are going to have a guarantee that this Bill is going to be discussed to-morrow, then it is not necessary to make any further appeal. I also wish to make an appeal to this side of the House, because I do not think that the Government attach much importance to appeals which come from the opposite side of the House. There is this to be said, that as far as Members opposite who have been moving Amendments to the Address are concerned, they do not deserve much consideration. [An HON. MEMBER: What do we come here for?] It is entirely the fault of hon. Members opposite that so much time has been wasted. I think the best and strongest appeal on this question was made by the hon. Member for the Rhondda Valley. Like him I represent a constituency in which this question is one of the deepest interest, and the hon. Member himself was good enough to come down to my constituency during the last election to try and persuade the miners who sent me here to send somebody else, but he did not succeed. However, upon this question I am with him, and I shall vote for the Bill again, 1228 as I have done before. I wish to support the appeal which has been made in order that we may have a discussion on this Bill. I think that the right hon. Gentleman—who, I am sure, will not pay much attention to hon. Members on the opposite side of the House—may possibly pay some attention to hon. Members on this side.
§ * SIR F. S. POWELL (Wigan)I represent a constituency interested in the coal industry, and I hope, therefore, that the House will allow me to say one word upon this question. My intention is to associate myself with those who are appealing to my right hon. friend to afford them an opportunity for the discussion of this important subject. There may be some difficulty about taking the discussion tomorrow, but I do hope that before this debate ends we shall have some assurance from my right hon. friend that facilities for the discussion of this subject will be given upon a subsequent occasion. Unlike my hon. friend who sits next to me, I do not favour this Bill, but, on the contrary, I am opposed to it; and it is because I am opposed to it that I do not want to appear to stand as a private Member before my constituents charged with having attempted to defeat this Bill by a side wind. That is a position which an hon. Member ought not to occupy, and I do sincerely hope that my right hon. friend will give us an assurance that we shall have an opportunity for a full discussion on this subject. It is a question which most vitally affects the interests of the miners, whatever their opinions may be upon it—and they are greatly divided—and for weal or woe it is one of the largest questions which can occupy the attention of the House of Commons.
§ MR. COURTENAY WARNER (Staffordshire, Lichfield)As the representative of a great number of miners, I must raise my voice in support of the appeal which has been made. It is no use delaying this question, because already, in consequence of the action of the party opposite, there is a suspicion amongst the miners in this country that this Bill is always crowded out whenever it can be, and I know that feeling is very widely spreading. I appeal to hon. Members on the opposite side to give their support to this appeal. Even if they are opposed 1229 to this Bill, let them at least show the miners that they are not afraid of it coming before the House to be divided upon. Do not let us have it brought against us that this Bill has been prevented from going forward, as it undoubtedly
§ will be if the course suggested by the Government is adopted.
§ Question put.
§ The House divided:—Ayes, 269; Noes, 182. (Division List No. 10.)
1233| AYES. | ||
| Acland-Hood, Capt. Sir Alex. F. | Cust, Henry John C. | Howard, Capt. J. (Faversham) |
| Agg-Gardner, James Tynte | Dalkeith, Earl of | Howard, J. (Midd., Tottenham |
| Agnew, Sir Andrew Noel | Dalrymple, Sir Charles | Hudson, George Bickersteth |
| Aird, Sir John | Dewar, T. R. (T'rH'mlets, S Geo. | Jeffreys, Arthur Frederick |
| Allsopp, Hon. George | Dickson, Charles Scott | Jessel, Captain H. Merton |
| Archdale, Edward Mervyn | Dickson, Poynder, Sir John P. | Johnston, William (Belfast) |
| Arkwright, John Stanhope | Digby, John K. D. Wingfield- | Johnstone, Heywood (Sussex) |
| Arnold-Forster, Hugh O. | Dimsdale, Sir Joseph Cockfield | Kennaway, Rt. Hn. Sir John H. |
| Arrol, Sir William | Disraeli, Coningsby Ralph | Kenyon, Hn. Geo. T. (Denbigh) |
| Ashmead-Bartlett, Sir Ellis | Dixon-Hartland, Sir F. Dixon | Kenyon, James (Lancs., Bury) |
| Atkinson, Rt. Hon. John | Dorington, Sir John Edward | Kenyon-Slaney, Col. W (Salop) |
| Bagot, Capt. Josceline FitzRoy | Douglas, Rt. Hon. A. Akers | Kimber, Henry |
| Bailey, James (Walworth) | Doxford, Sir William Theodore | Knowles, Lees |
| Baird, John George Alexander | Durning-Lawrence, Sir Edwin | Lambton, Hon. Frederick Wm. |
| Balcarres, Lord | Dyke, Rt. Hon. Sir William Hart | Law, Andrew Bonar |
| Balfour, Rt. Hn. A. J. (Manch'r | Elliot, Hon. A. Ralph Douglas | Lawson, John Grant |
| Balfour, Rt. Hn. Gerald W(Leeds | Faber, George Denison | Lecky, Rt. Hon. Wm. E. H. |
| Balfour, Maj K R (Christchurch | Fardell, Sir T. George | Lee, Capt. A. H. (Hants. Fareh'm |
| Banbury, Frederick George | Fellowes, Hon. Ailwyn Edw. | Legge, Col. Hon. Heneage |
| Barry, Sir Francis T. (Windsor) | Fergusson, Rt. Hn. Sir J. (Manc'r) | Leigh-Bennett, Henry Currie |
| Bartley, George C. T. | Fielden, Edward Brocklehurst | Leighton, Stanley |
| Beach, Rt. Hn. Sir M. H. (Bristol | Finch, George H. | Lockwood, Lt.-Col. A. R. |
| Beach, Rt. Hon. W. W. B.(Hants | Finlay, Sir Robert Bannatyne | Loder, Gerald Walter Erskine |
| Beckett, Ernest William | Fisher, William Hayes | Long, Col. Charles W (Evesham |
| Bhownaggree, Sir M. M. | FitzGerald, Sir Robert Penrose- | Long, Rt. Hn. Walter (Bristol, S. |
| Bignold, Arthur | Fitzroy, Hon. E. Algernon | Lonsdale, John Brownlee |
| Bigwood, James | Fletcher, Sir Henry | Lowe, Francis William |
| Blundell, Colonel Henry | Forster, Henry William | Lowther, Rt. Hon. James (Kent |
| Bond, Edward | Garfit, William | Loyd, Archie Kirkman |
| Boscawen, Arthur Griffith- | Gibbs, Hn. A. G. H. (City of Lond | Lucas, Col. Francis (Lowestoft) |
| Boulnois, Edmund | Godson, Sir Augustus Fred | Lucas, Reginald J. (Portsmouth |
| Bowles, Capt. H. F. (Middlesex) | Gordon, Hon. J. E.(Elgin & Nairn | Macartney, Rt. Hn. W. G. Ellison |
| Bowles, T. Gibson (King'sLynn | Gordon, J. (Londonderry, S.) | Macdona, John Cumming |
| Brassey, Albert | Gore, Hon. F. S. Ormsby- | Maconochie, A. W. |
| Brodrick, Rt. Hon. St. John | Gorst, Rt. Hon. Sir John Eldon | M'Arthur, Charles (Liverpool) |
| Brookfield, Colonel Montagu | Goschen, Hon. G. Joachim | M'Calmont, Col. J. (Antrim, E.) |
| Brown, Alex. H. (Shropshire) | Goulding, Edward Alfred | M'Iver, Sir Lewis(Edinb'gh, W |
| Brymer, William Ernest | Green, W. D. (Wednesbury) | M'Killop, James(Stirlingshire) |
| Ballard, Sir Harry | Greene, Sir E.W.(B'rySEdm'nds | Malcolm, Ian |
| Burdett-Coutts, W. | Greene, Henry D. (Shrewsbury) | Maple, Sir John Blundell |
| Carlile, William Walter | Greenfell, William Henry | Martin, Richard Biddulph |
| Cavendish, R. F. (N. Lancs.) | Groves, James Grimble | Maxwell, W. J. H (Dumfriessh. |
| Cavendish, V. C. W. (Derbys. | Guthrie, Walter Murray | Melville, Beresford Valentine |
| Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor) | Hain, Edward | Milner, Rt. Hn. Sir Frederick G. |
| Cecil, Lord Hugh (Greenwich) | Halsey, Thomas Frederick | Milward, Colonel Victor |
| Chamberlain, Rt. Hn. J. (Birm. | Hamilton, Rt. Hn. Lord G. (Mid'x | Mitchell, William |
| Chamberlain, J Austen (Worc'r | Hamilton, Marq. of (L'nd'ndrry | Molesworth, Sir Lewis |
| Chapman, Edward | Hanbury, Rt. Hon. Robert W. | Montagu, G. (Huntingdon) |
| Charrington, Spencer | Hare, Thomas Leigh | Moore, William (Antrim, N.) |
| Cochrane, Hn. Thomas H. A. E. | Harris, F. Leverton (Tynem'th) | More, Robt. Jasper (Shropshire) |
| Coddington, Sir William | Heath, Arthur H. (Hanley) | Morgan, D. J. (Walthamstow |
| Cohen, Benjamin Louis | Heaton, John Henniker | Morrell, George Herbert |
| Collings, Rt. Hon. Jesse | Helder, Augustus | Morris, Hon. Martin Henry F. |
| Colomb, Sir John Charles Ready | Henderson, Alexander | Morton, A. H. A. (Deptford) |
| Colston, C. E. H. Athole | Hermon-Hodge, Robert T. | Mount, William Arthur |
| Cook, Fred. Lucas | Higginbottom, S. W. | Mowbray, Sir Robert Gray C. |
| Corbett, A. Cameron(Glasgow) | Hoare, Edward B.(Hampstead | Muntz, Philip A. |
| Corbett, T. L. (Down, North) | Hobhouse, Henry (Somerset, E. | Murray, Rt. Hn A Graham (Bute |
| Cox, Irwin E. Bainbridge | Hogg, Lindsay | Murray, Charles J. (Coventry) |
| Cranborne, Viscount | Hope, J. F. (Sheffield, Brightsde | Myers, William Henry |
| Cross, Alexander (Glasgow) | Houldsworth, Sir Wm. Henry | Nicholson, William Graham |
| Cubitt, Hon. Henry | Hoult, Joseph | Nicol, Donald Ninian |
| O'Neill, Hon. Robert Torrens | Round, James | Thorburn, Sir Walter |
| Orr-Ewing, Charles Lindsay | Royds, Clement Molyneux | Thornton, Percy M. |
| Palmer, Walter (Salisbury | Russell, T. W. | Tollemache, Henry James |
| Parkes, Ebenezer | Rutherford, John | Tomlinson, Wm. Edw. Murray |
| Pease, Herbert P. (Darlington | Sackville, Col. S. G. Stopford- | Tufnell, Col. Edward |
| Pemberton, John S. G. | Samuel, Harry S. (Limehouse | Valentia, Viscount |
| Penn, John | Sandys, Lt.-Col. Thos. Myles | Vincent, Col. Sir. E. H. (Sheffield) |
| Pilkington, Richard | Saunderson, Rt. Hn. Col. E.J. | Vincent, Sir Edgar (Exeter) |
| Platt-Higgins, Frederick | Sharpe, William Edward T. | Walker, Col. William Hall |
| Plummer, Walter R. | Shaw-Stewart, M. H (Renfrew) | Wanklyn, James Leslie |
| Powell, Sir Francis Sharp | Simeon, Sir Harrington | Warde, Lieut.-Col. C. E. |
| Pretyman, Ernest George | Sinclair, Louis (Romford) | Warr, Augustus Frederick |
| Pryce-Jones, Lt.-Col. Edward | Skewes-Cox, Thomas | Wason, John Cathcart (Orkney |
| Purvis, Robert | Smith, Abel H.(Hertford, East) | Webb, Colonel William George |
| Quilter, Sir Cuthbert | Smith, H. C. (North'mb. Tynesi'e | Welby, Lt.-Col. A. C. E. (Taunton) |
| Rasch, Major Frederic Carne | Smith, James Parker (Lanarks) | Welby, Sir Charles G. E. (Notts. |
| Ratcliffe, R. F. | Smith, Hon. W. F.D.(Strand) | Whiteley, H. (Ashton und-Lyne |
| Reid, James (Greenock) | Spear, John Ward | Williams, Colonel R. (Dorset) |
| Remnant, James Farquharson | Spencer, Ernest (W. Bromwich) | Wills, Sir Frederick |
| Renshaw, Charles Bine | Stanley, Hon. A. (Ormskirk) | Wilson, John (Glasgow) |
| Renwick, George | Stanley, Edward Jas. (Somerset | Wilson, J. W. (Worcestersh. N.) |
| Richards, Henry Charles | Stanley, Lord (Lancs.) | Wodehouse, Rt. Hn. E. R(Bath) |
| Ridley, Hn. M. W. (Stalybridge | Stewart, Sir Mark J. M' Taggart | Wortley, Rt. Hon. C. B. Stuart- |
| Ridley, S. Forde (Bethnal Green | Stirling-Maxwell, Sir John M. | Wyndham, Rt. Hon. George |
| Ritchie, Rt. Hon. Chas. T. | Stock, James Henry | Young, Commander (Berks, E.) |
| Rolleston, Sir John F. L. | Stone, Sir Benjamin | |
| Rollit, Sir Albert Kaye | Stroyan, John | TELLERS FOR THE AYES— |
| Ropner, Colonel Robert | Start, Hon. Humphry Napier | Sir William Walrond and Mr. Anstruther. |
| Rothschild, Hon. Lionel W. | Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester) | |
| NOES. | ||
| Abraham, William (Cork N. E. | Dilke, Rt. Hon. Sir Charles | Joicey, Sir James |
| Abraham, William (Rhondda | Dillon, John | Jordan, Jeremiah |
| Allen, Charles P.(Glouc., Stroud | Donelan, Captain A. | Joyce, Michael |
| Ashton, Thomas Gair | Doogan, P. C. | Kinloch, Sir John George Smyth |
| Austin, Sir John | Douglas, Charles M. (Lanark | Labouchere, Henry |
| Bain, Colonel James Robert | Duffy, William J. | Langley, Batty |
| Barlow, John Emmott | Duncan, James H. | Leamy, Edmund |
| Barry, E. (Cork, S.) | Dunn, Sir Wiliam | Leese, Sir J. F. (Accrington) |
| Bayley, Thomas (Derbyshire) | Elibank, Master of | Leng, Sir John |
| Beaumont, Wentworth C. B. | Ellis, John Edward | Lloyd-George, David |
| Bell, Richard | Esmonde, Sir Thomas | Lough, Thomas |
| Boland, John | Evans, Samuel T. | Lowther, C. (Cumb., Eskdale) |
| Boyle, James | Farrell, James Patrick | Lundon, W. |
| Brand, Hon. Arthur G. | Fenwick, Charles | MacDonnell Dr. Mark A. |
| Broadhurst, Henry | Ferguson, R. C. Munro (Leith) | Macnamara, Dr. Thomas J. |
| Brown, G. M. (Edinburgh) | Ffrench, Peter | M'Crae, George |
| Burke, E. Haviland- | Field, William | M'Darmott, Patrick |
| Burt, Thomus | Flavin, Michael Joseph | M'Fadden, Edward |
| Buxton, Sydney Charles | Flynn, James Christopher | M'Govern, T. |
| Caine, William Sproston | Foster, Sir Walter (Derby Co) | M'Hugh, Patrick A. |
| Caldwell, James | Fowler, Rt. Hon. Sir Henry | M'Kenna, Reginald |
| Campbell, John (Armagh, S.) | Furness, Sir Christopher | Mansfield, Horace Rendall |
| Campbell-Bannerman, Sir H. | Gilhooly, James | Markham, Arthur Basil |
| Carvill, Patrick Geo. Hamilton | Goddard, Daniel Ford | Mather, William |
| Causton, Richard Knight | Gurdon, Sir William Brampton | Mellor, Rt. Hon. J. William |
| Cawley, Frederick | Hammond, John | Mooney, John J. |
| Channing, Francis Allston | Harcourt, Rt. Hon. Sir William | Morley, Charles (Breconshire) |
| Churchill, Winston Spencer | Hardie, J. Keir (Merthyr Tydvil | Murnaghan, George |
| Cogan, Denis J. | Harmsworth, R. Leicester | Murphy, J. |
| Coghill, Douglas Harry | Hatch, Ernest Frederick Geo. | Nannetti, Joseph P. |
| Condon, Thomas Joseph | Hayden, John Patrick | Newnes, Sir George |
| Crean, Eugene | Hayne, Rt. Hon. Charles Seale- | Nolan, Col. J. P.(Galway, N.) |
| Cremer, William Randal | Hayter, Rt. Hon. Sir Arthur D. | Nolan, Joseph (Louth, South) |
| Crombie, John William | Helme, Norval Watson | Norman, Henry |
| Cullinan, J. | Hemphill, Rt. Hon. Charles H. | Norton, Capt. Cecil William |
| Daly, James | Holland, William Henry | O'Brien, James F. X. (Cork) |
| Dalziel, James Henry | Horniman, Frederick John | O'Brien, K. (Tipperary, Mid) |
| Davies, Alfred (Carmarthen) | Hozier, Hon. James Henry Cecil | O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny) |
| Davies, M. Vaughan- (Cardigan | Humphreys-Owen, Arthur C. | O'Brien, P. J. (Tipperary, N.) |
| Delany, William | Hutton, Alfred E. (Morley) | O'Connor, James (Wicklow W.) |
| Dewar, John A.(Inverness-sh. | Jacoby, James Alfred | O'Doherty, William |
| O'Donnell, John (Mayo S.) | Roche, John | Trevelyan, Charles Philips |
| O'Donnell, T. (Kerry, W.) | Roe, Sir Thomas | Tully, Jasper |
| O'Dowd, John | Samuel, S. M. (Whitechapel) | Ure, Alexander |
| O'Kelly, Conor (Mayo, N. | Schwann, Charles E. | Wallace, Robert |
| O'Kelly, James (Roscommon N. | Scott, Charles P. (Leigh) | Walton, Joseph (Barnsley) |
| O'Malley, William | Seton-Karr, Henry | Warner, Thomas Courtenay T. |
| O'Mara, James | Shaw, Thomas (Hawick B.) | White, George (Norfolk) |
| O'Shaughnessy, P. J. | Shipman, Dr. John | White, Luke (Yorks, E.R.) |
| O'Shee, James John | Sinclair, Capt. J. (Forfarshire | White, Patrick(Meath, North |
| Paulton, James Mellor | Smith, Samuel (Flint) | Whitley, J. H. (Halifax) |
| Philipps, John Wynford | Soames, Arthur Wellesley | Whittaker, Thomas Palmer |
| Pirie, Duncan V. | Soares, Ernest J. | Williams, Osmond (Merioneth |
| Power, Patrick Joseph | Spencer, Rt. Hn. C.R. (Northnts | Wilson, Fred. W. (Norfolk, Mid |
| Reddy, M. | Stevenson, Francis S. | Wilson, John (Durham, Mid) |
| Redmond, John E. (Waterford) | Sullivan, Donal | Wodehouse, Hon. A. (Essex) |
| Redmond, William (Clare) | Taylor, Theodore Cooke | Young, Samuel (Cavan, East) |
| Rickett, J. Compton | Tennant, Harold John | Yoxall, James Henry |
| Roberts, John Bryn (Eifion) | Thomas, Abel (Carmarthen, E.) | |
| Roberts, John H. (Denbighsh.) | Thomas, David Alfred (Merth'r | TELLERS FOR THE NOES— |
| Robertson, Edmund (Dundee) | Thomas, F. Freeman-(Hastings | Mr. Herbert Gladstone and Mr. M'Arthur. |
| Robson, William Snowdon | Thomas, J. A. (Glam., Cower) |
§ Main Question put.
§ The House divided:—Ayes, 275: Noes, 184. (Division List No. 11.)
1237| AYES. | ||
| Acland-Hood, Capt. Sir Alex. F. | Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor) | FitzGerald, Sir Robt. Penrose- |
| Agg-Gardner, James Tynte | Cecil, Lord Hugh (Greenwich) | Fitzroy, Hon. Edward Algernon |
| Agnew, Sir Andrew Noel | Chamberlain, Rt. Hon. J. (Birm | Fletcher, Sir Henry |
| Aird, Sir John | Chamberlain, J. Austen (Worc'r | Forster, Henry William |
| Allsopp, Hon. George | Chapman, Edward | Garfit, William |
| Archdale, Edward Mervyn | Churchill, Winston Spencer | Gibbs, Hn. A. G. H (City of Lond. |
| Arkwright, John Stanhope | Cochrane, Hon. T. H. A. E. | Godson, Sir Augustus Frederick |
| Arnold-Forster, Hugh O. | Coddington, Sir William | Gordon, Hn. J. E. (Elgin & Nairn |
| Arrol, Sir William | Cohen, Benjamin Louis | Gordon, J. (Londonderry, S.) |
| Ashmead-Bartlett, Sir Ellis | Collings, Rt. Hon. Jesse | Gordon, Maj Evans- (Tr. H'ml'ts |
| Atkinson, Rt. Hon. John | Colomb, Sir John C. Ready | Gore, Hon. F. S. Ormsby- |
| Bagot, Capt. J. FitzRoy | Colston, Chas. E. H. Athole | Gorst, Rt. Hn. Sir John Eldon |
| Bailey, James (Walworth) | Cook, Frederick Lucas | Goschen, Hn. George Joachim |
| Baird, John George Alexander | Corbett, A. Cameron (Glasgow | Goulding, Edward Alfred |
| Balcarres, Lord | Corbett, T. L. (Down, North) | Green, Walford D. (Wednesb'y. |
| Balfour, Rt. Hon. A. J.(Man.) | Cox, Irwin Edw. Bainbridge | Green, Sir E.W.(B. St. Edm'ds. |
| Balfour Rt. Hn. Gerald W. (Leeds | Cranborne, Viscount | Greene, Henry D. (Shrewsbury) |
| Balfour, Maj K.R. (Christch'ch) | Cross, Alexander (Glasgow) | Grenfell, William Henry |
| Banbury, Frederick George | Cubitt, Hon. Henry | Groves, James Grimble |
| Barry, Sir F. T. (Windsor) | Cust, Henry John C. | Guthrie, Walter Murray |
| Bartley, George C. T. | Dalkeith, Earl of | Hain, Edward |
| Beach, Rt. Hn. Sir M.H. (Bristol | Dalrymple, Sir Charles | Halsey, Thomas Frederick |
| Beach, Rt. Hn. W.W.B. (Hants. | Dewar, T. R. (T'rHml'ts, S. Geo. | Hamilton, Rt. Hn. Ld. G. (Midx |
| Beckett, Ernest William | Dickson, Charles Scott | Hamilton Marq. of (L'nd'nderry |
| Bhownaggree, Sir M. M. | Dickson-Poynder, Sir John P. | Hanbury, Rt. Hon. Robert Wm. |
| Bignold, Arthur | Digby, John K. D. Wingfield- | Hare, Thomas Leigh |
| Bigwood, James | Dimsdale, Sir J. Cockfleld | Harris, F. Leverton (Tynem'th. |
| Blundell, Colonel Henry | Disraeli, Coningsby Ralph | Heath, Arthur Howard (Hanley |
| Bond, Edward | Dixon-Hartland, Sir F. Dixon | Heaton, John Henniker |
| Boscawen, Arthur Griffith- | Dorington, Sir John Edward | Helder, Augustus |
| Boulnois, Edmund | Douglas, Rt. Hon. A. Akers- | Hermon-Hodge, R. Trotter |
| Bowles, Capt. H. F. (Middlesex) | Doxford, Sir William Theodore | Higginbottom, S. W. |
| Bowles, T. G. (King'sLynn) | Durning-Lawrence, Sir Edwin | Hoare, E. Brodie (Hampstead) |
| Brassey, Albert | Dyke, Rt. Hon. Sir Wm. Hart | Hobhouse, Henry (Somerset, E. |
| Brodrick, Rt. Hon. St. John | Elliot, Hon. A. R. Douglas | Hogg, Lindsay |
| Brookfield, Colonel Montagu | Faber, George Denison | Hope, J. F. (Sheffield, Brightside |
| Brown, Alex. H. (Shropshire) | Fardell, Sir T. George | Houldsworth, Sir Wm. Henry |
| Brymer, William Ernest | Fellowes, Hon. Ailwyn Edwd. | Hoult, Joseph |
| Bullard, Sir Harry | Fergusson, Rt. Hn. Sir J. (Manch. | Howard, Capt J (Kent, Faversh. |
| Burdett-Coutts, W. | Fielden, Edward Brocklehurst | Howard, J. (Midd., Tottenham |
| Carlile, William Walter | Finch, George H. | Hudson, George Bickersteth |
| Cavendish, R. F. (N. Lancs.) | Finlay, Sir Robert Bannatyne | Jeffreys, Arthur Frederick |
| Cavendish, V. C.W. (Derbysh.) | Fisher, William Hayes | Jessel, Capt. Herbert Merton |
| Johnston, William (Belfast) | Morrell, George Herbert | Shaw-Stewart, M. H. (Renfrew |
| Johnstone, Heywood (Sussex) | Morris, Hon. Martin Henry F. | Simeon, Sir Barrington |
| Kennaway, Rt. Hon. Sir J. H. | Morton, Arthur H. A. (Deptford | Sinclair, Louis (Romford) |
| Kenyon, James (Lancs., Bury) | Mount, William Arthur | Skewes-Cox, Thomas |
| Kenyon-Slaney, Col. W. (Salop | Mowbray, Sir Robert Gray C. | Smith, Abel H. (Hertford, E.) |
| Keswick, William | Muntz, Philip A. | Smith, H. C. (Northum, Tynesd. |
| Kimber, Henry | Murray, Rt. Hon. A. G.(Bute) | Smith, Jas. Parker (Lanarks.) |
| Knowles, Lees | Murray, Charles J. (Coventry) | Smith, Hon. W. F. D. (Strand) |
| Lambton, Hon. Frederick Wm. | Myers, William Henry | Spear, John Ward |
| Law, Andrew Bonar | Nicholson, William Graham | Spencer, Ernest (W. Bromw'ch |
| Lawson, John Grant | Nicol, Donald Ninian | Stanley, Hon Arthur (Ormskirk |
| Lecky, Rt. Hn. William Edw. H. | O'Neill, Hon. Robert Torrens | Stanley, Edward J. (Somerset) |
| Lee, Capt A.H. (Hants, Fareham | Orr-Ewing, Charles Lindsay | Stanley, Lord (Lancs.) |
| Leage, Col. Hon. Heneage | Palmer, Walter (Salisbury) | Stewart, Sir M. J. M'Taggart |
| Leigh Bennett, Henry Currie | Parkes, Ebenezer | Stirling-Maxwell, Sir J. M. |
| Leighton, Stanley | Pease, Herbert Pike (Darlingtn | Stock, James Henry |
| Leveson-Gower, Frederick N. S. | Pemberton, John S. G. | Stone, Sir Benjamin |
| Lockwood, Lt.-Col. A. R. | Penn, John | Stroyan, John |
| Loder, Gerald Walter Erskine | Percy, Earl | Sturt, Hon. Humphry Napier |
| Long, Col. Charles W. (Evesham | Pilkington, Richard | Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester) |
| Loug, Rt. Hn. Walter (Bristol, S. | Platt-Higgins, Frederick | Thorburn, Sir Walter |
| Lonsdale, John Brownlee | Plummer, Walter R. | Thornton, Percy M. |
| Lowe, Francis William | Powell, Sir Francis Sharp | Tollemache, Henry James |
| Lowther, C. (Cumb., Eskdale) | Pretyman, Ernest George | Tomlinson, Wm. Edw. Murray |
| Lowther, Rt. Hn. James (Kent) | Pryce-Jones, Lt.-Col. Edward | Tufnell, Col. Edward |
| Loyd, Archie Kirkman | Purvis, Robert | Valentia, Viscount |
| Lucas, Col. Francis (Lowestoft) | Quilter, Sir Cuthbert | Vincent, Col. Sir C. E. H. (Sheffield |
| Lucas, Reginald. J. (Portsm'th | Rasch, Major Frederic Carne | Vincent, Sir Edgar (Exeter) |
| Macartney, Rt. Hn. A. V. G. Ellison | Ratcliffe, R. F. | Walker, Col. William Hall |
| Macdona, John Cumming | Reid, James (Greenock) | Wanklyn, James Leslie |
| Maconochie, A. W. | Remnant, James Farquharson | Warde, Lieut.-Col. C. E. |
| M'Arthur, Charles (Liverpool) | Renshaw, Charles Bine | Warr, Augustus Frederick |
| M'Calmont, Col. J.(Antrim, E. | Renwick, George | Wason, John C. (Orkney) |
| M'Iver, Sir Lewis (Edinb., W. | Richards, Henry Charles | Webb, Col. William George |
| M'Killop, James (Stirlingshire | Ridley, Hn. M. W. (Staleybrdg. | Welby, Lt-Col. A. C. E. (Taunton |
| Malcolm, Ian | Ridley, S. Forde (Bethnal Green | Welby, Sir C. G. E. (Notts.) |
| Maple, Sir John Blundell | Ritchie, Rt. Hn. Chas. Thomson | Whiteley, H. (Ashton-under-L) |
| Martin, Richard Biddulph | Rolleston, Sir John F. L. | Williams, Colonel R. (Dorset) |
| Maxwell, W.J.H. (Dumfriessh.) | Rollit, Sir Albert Kaye | Wills, Sir Frederick |
| Melville, Beresford Valentine | Ropner, Colonel Robert | Wilson, John (Glasgow) |
| Milner, Rt. Hn. Sir Fredk. G. | Rothschild, Hon. Lionel Walter | Wilson, J. W. (Worcestersh. N. |
| Milton, Viscount | Round, James | Wodehouse, Rt. Hn. E. R (Bath) |
| Milward, Colonel Victor | Royds, Clement Molyneux | Wortley, Rt. Hn. C.B. Stuart- |
| Mitchell, William | Russell, T. W. | Wylie, Alexander |
| Molesworth, Sir Lewis | Rutherford, John | Wyndham, Rt. Hon. George |
| Montagu, G. (Huntingdon) | Sackville, Col. S. G. Stopford- | Young, Commander (Berks, E.) |
| Moore, William (Antrim, N.) | Samuel, Harry S. (Limehouse) | |
| More, Rt. Jasper (Shropshire) | Sandys, Lieut.-Col. Thos. Myles | TELLERS FOR THE AYES— |
| Morgan, David J. (Walthamst. | Saunderson, Rt. Hon. Col. E. J. | Sir William Walrond and Mr. Anstruther. |
| Morgan, Hn. Fred. (Monm'thsh. | Sharpe, William Edward T. |
| NOES. | ||
| Abraham, Wm. (Cork, N.E.) | Caine, William Sproston | Dewar, John A. (Inverness-sh.) |
| Abraham, William (Rhondda) | Caldwell, James | Dilke, Rt. Hon. Sir Charles |
| Allen, C. P. (Glouc, Stroud) | Campbell, John (Armagh, S.) | Dillon, John |
| Ashton, Thomas Gair | Campbell-Bannerman, Sir H. | Donelan, Captain A. |
| Austin, Sir John | Carvill, Patrick G. Hamilton | Doogan, P. C. |
| Bain, Col. James Robert | Causton, Richard Knight | Douglas, Charles M. (Lanark) |
| Barlow, John Emmott | Cawley, Frederick | Duffy, William J. |
| Barry, E. (Cork, S.) | Channing, Francis Allston | Duncan, James H. |
| Bayley, Thomas (Derbyshire) | Cogan, Denis J. | Dunn, Sir William |
| Beaumont, Wentworth C. B. | Coghill, Douglas Harry | Elibank, Master of |
| Bell, Richard | Condon, Thomas Joseph | Ellis, John Edward |
| Boland, John | Crean, Eugene | Esmonde, Sir Thomas |
| Bolton, Thomas Dolling | Cremer, William Randal | Evans, Samuel T. |
| Boyle, James | Crombie, John William | Farrell, James Patrick |
| Brand, Hon. Arthur G. | Cullinan, J. | Fenwick, Charles |
| Broadhurst, Henry | Daly, James | Ferguson, R. C. Munro (Leith) |
| Brown, G. M. (Edinburgh) | Dalziel, James Henry | Ffrench, Peter |
| Burk, E. Haviland- | Davies, Alfred (Carmarthen) | Field, William |
| Burt, Thomas | Davies, M. Vaughan-(Cardigan | Flavin, Michael Joseph |
| Buxton, Sydney Charles | Delany, William | Flynn, James Christopher |
| Fowler, Rt. Hon. Sir Henry | M'Hugh, Patrick A. | Robertson, Edmund (Dundee) |
| Furness, Sir Christopher | M'Kenna, Reginald | Robson, William Snowdon |
| Gilhooly, James | Mansfield, Horace Rendall | Roche, John |
| Gladstone, Rt. Hn. Herbert John | Markham, Arthur Basil | Roe, Sir Thomas |
| Goddard, Daniel Ford | Mather, William | Samuel, S. M. (Whitechapel) |
| Gurdon, Sir William Brampton | Mellor, Rt. Hon. John William | Schwann, Charles E. |
| Hammond, John | Mooney, John J. | Scott, Chas. Prestwich (Leigh) |
| Harcourt, Rt. Hon. Sir William | Morley, Charles (Breconshire) | Seton Karr, Henry |
| Hardie, J. Kier (Merthyr Tydvil | Moulton, John Fletcher | Shaw, Thomas (Hawick B.) |
| Harmsworth, R. Leicester | Murnaghan, George | Shipman, Dr. John |
| Hatch, Ernest Frederick Geo. | Murphy, J. | Sinclair, Capt. J. (Forfarshire) |
| Hayden, John Patrick | Nannetti, Joseph P. | Soames, Arthur Wellesley |
| Hayne, Rt-Hon. Charles Seale- | Newnes, Sir (Jeorge | Soares, Ernest J. |
| Hayter, Rt. Hn. Sir Arthur D. | Nolan, Col. John P. (Galway, N.) | Spencer, Rt. Hn. C. R (Northants)- |
| Helme, Norval Watson | Nolan, Joseph (Louth, South) | Stevenson, Francis S. |
| Hemphill, Rt. Hon. Charles H. | Norman, Henry | Sullivan, Donal |
| Henderson, Alexander | Norton, Capt. Cecil William | Taylor, Theodore Cooke |
| Holland, William Henry | O'Brien, James F. X. (Cork) | Tennant, Harold John |
| Horniman, Frederick John | O'Brien, K. (Tipperary Mid) | Thomas, Abel (Carmarthen, E. |
| Hozier, Hon. James Henry Cecil | O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny) | Thomas, David Alfred (Merthyr |
| Humphreys-Owen, Arthur C. | O'Brien, P. J. (Tipperary, N.) | Thomas, F. Freeman-(Hastings |
| Hutton, Alfred E. (Morley) | O'Connor, Jas. (Wicklow, W.) | Thomas, J. A. (Glam., Gower |
| Joicey, Sir James | O'Doherty, William | Trevelyan, Charles Philips |
| Jones, William (Carnarvonsh. | O'Donnell, John (Mayo, S.) | Tully, Jasper |
| Jordan, Jeremiah | O'Donnell, T. (Kerry, W.) | Ure, Alexander |
| Joyce, Michael | O'Dowd, John | Wallace, Robert |
| Kinloch, Sir John Geo. Smyth | O'Kelly, Conor (Mayo, N.) | Walton, Joseph (Barnsley) |
| Labouchere, Henry | O'Kelly, J. (Roscommon, N.) | Warner, Thos. Courtenay T. |
| Langley, Batty | O'Malley, William | White, George (Norfolk) |
| Leamy, Edmund | O'Mara, James | White, Luke (York, E. R.) |
| Leese, Sir Joseph F. (Accrington | O'Shaughnessy, P. J. | White, Patrick (Meath, North |
| Leng, Sir John | O'Shee, James John | Whitley, J. H. (Halifax) |
| Lloyd-George, David | Paulton, James Mellor | Whittaker, Thomas Palmer |
| Lough, Thomas | Philipps, John Wynford | Williams, O. (Merioneth) |
| Lundon, W. | Pirie, Duncan V. | Wilson, Fred. W. (Norfolk, Mid> |
| MacDonnell, Dr. Mark A. | Power, Patrick Joseph | Wilson, John (Durham, Mid) |
| Macnamara, Dr. Thomas J. | Reddy, M. | Wodehouse, Hn. A. (Essex) |
| M'Arthur, William (Cornwall | Redmond, J. E. (Waterford) | Young, Samuel (Cavan, East) |
| M'Crae, George | Redmond, William (Clare) | |
| M'Dermott, Patrick | Rickett, J. Compton | TELLERS FOR THE NOES— |
| M'Fadden, Edward | Roberts, John Bryn (Eifion) | Mr. Yoxall and Mr. Jacoby. |
| M'Govern, T. | Roberts, John H. (Denbighs.) |
§ Ordered, That Government business have precedence this day and to-morrow of all other business.