§ Considered in Committee.
§ (In the Committee.)
§ [Mr. J. W. LOWTHER (Cumberland, Penrith) in the Chair.]
§ Motion made, and Question proposed, "That, towards making good the Supply granted to His Majesty for the Service of the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1902, the sum of £86,756,285 be granted out of the Consolidated Fund of the United Kingdom."—(Mr. Austen Chamberlain.)
§ MR. WILLIAM REDMONDmoved to report progress. He appealed to the First Lord of the Treasury not to proceed with further business at that hour in the morning (4.45). It was not reasonable to ask the Committee to assent to a Vote of £86,000,000 at that hour, when there was not a fair opportunity for reasonable discussion. He appealed to the First Lord of the Treasury even if he had no consideration for the views of the Irish members, if he believed that he was completely right and that they were completely wrong, for the credit of his own party and the House of Commons, not to perpetrate what was little short of a scandal. The right hon. 232 Gentleman had succeeded in doing what no Minister had ever succeeded in doing in the history of Parliament—he had not only stifled discussion but had prevented hon. members voting against Estimates to which they objected. He therefore appealed to the right hon. Gentleman to accept his motion to report progress. After all, a Minister who had the courage to outrage all the proceedings of Parliament ought to be strong enough not to allow himself to be intimidated by the cries of hon. Gentlemen behind him. If the right hon. Gentleman would not agree to adjourn he hoped his hon. friends would resist the attempt which was being made to intimidate them. If they were forced to fight they were quite prepared for it, in the absolute consciousness and belief that they were in no way responsible for what had occurred. They were not responsible for the new rule, or for voting sixty-seven millions of the taxpayers' money without discussion. He hoped that he would live to see another Government in power who would put into force to the fullest extent, when hon. Gentlemen opposite were in Opposition, the scandalous and outrageous rules which were now degrading Parliament. He begged to move to report progress.
§ Motion made, and Question proposed, "That the Chairman do report Progress, and ask leave to sit again."—(Mr. William Redmond.)
233§ MR. A. J. BALFOURThere have been many interchanges between hon. Gentlemen opposite and ourselves with regard to transactions for the last six hours, but there can be no difference with regard to the motion now before the Committee. The hon. Gentleman appeals to parliamentary practice and precedent, and I can assure him that Parliamentary practice and precedent are unbroken, and that the resolution now put from the Chair has always been put and agreed to without discussion, it being a necessary preliminary to the introduction of the Appropriation Bill at the end of the session. This is not a Vote for money, as the hon. Gentleman seems to suppose. It has that appearance, but it is not, and so far as I know, no question of controversy is raised or can be raised by this formal stage of the Appropriation Bill. Under these circumstances I hope the hon. Gentleman will not persist in his motion.
§ MR. WILLIAM REDMONDsaid he had a very good response when the right hon. Gentleman spoke to him of parliamentary practice and precedent.
§ MR. A. J. BALFOURThe hon. Gentleman spoke to me about it,
§ MR. WILLIAM REDMONDsaid that the right hon. Gentleman answered him by saying that the motion was in strict accordance with parliamentary precedent. That was not so, because the right hon. Gentleman could not point to a single year in the whole history of Parliament where proceedings such as had taken place that night had occurred. There was never an occasion in which Supply had been rushed through as it was that night. It was, therefore, no use appealing to parliamentary precedent, as parliamentary precedent had been outraged by what had occurred.
§ MR. DILLONsaid there was no justification for taking the motion that night.
§ MR. A. J. BALFOURI have no intention of taking any Bills to-night, but this is a formal resolution.
§ MR. DILLONsaid that there was no object to be gained by pressing the resolution. It would not expedite business, and it would not make any difference whether the resolution were passed that night or the next night. There might be circumstances under which it might make a day's difference in the length of the session, but they did not exist at at present. The First Lord of the Treasury himself confessed that he had abandoned all hope of being able to prorogue Parliament on Saturday week, and, therefore, there was no object in taking the resolution that night. As he understood it, the motion for the Appropriation Bill had never been introduced until the Supply for the year had been voted. [Mr. T. M. HEALY: That was the old practice.] That was the old practice. If the right hon. Gentleman could state that by taking the resolution to-night he could adjourn on Saturday week, he could understand it, but he had abandoned that notion, and there was therefore no hurry for the Appropriation Bill, as far as the convenience of the House was concerned. The system which was now being adopted did not facilitate business or tend towards preserving the dignity of debate, and never would.
§ MR. A. J. BALFOURrose in his place and claimed to move, "That the question be now put."
§ Question put, "That the Question be now put."
§ The Committee divided:—Ayes, 140; Noes, 70. (Division List No. 440.)
235| AYES. | ||
| Acland-Hood, Capt. Sir A. F. | Bathurst, Hon. A. Benjamin | Chamberlain, J. A. (Worc'r) |
| Agg-Gardner, James Tynte | Bentinck, Lord Henry | Chapman, Edward |
| Agnew, Sir Andrew Noel | Bignold, Arthur | Charrington, Spencer |
| Arkwright, John Stanhope | Blundell, Colonel Henry C. | Churchill, Winston Spencer |
| Arnold-Forster, Hugh O. | Brassey, Albert | Cohen, Benjamin Louis |
| Arrol, Sir William | Bullard, Sir Harry | Collings, Rt. Hon. Jesse |
| Atkinson, Rt. Hon. John | Cavendish, R. F. (N. Lancs.) | Corbett, A. C. (Glasgow) |
| Balfour, Rt. Hn. A. J. (Manch'r | Cavendish, V. C. W. (Derbys. | Corbett, T. L. (Down, North) |
| Balfour, Capt. C. B. (Hornsey) | Cecil, Evelyn (Ast5n Manor) | Cranborne, Viscount |
| Balfour, Rt. Hn. G. W. (Leeds | Cecil, Lord Hugh (Greenwich) | Crossley, Sir Savile |
| Balfour, K. R. (Christchurch) | Chamberlain, Rt. Hn. J. (Birm. | Davenport, W. Bromley |
| Davies, Sir H. D. (Chatham) | Kenyon, Hon. Geo. T. (Denbigh | Purvis, Robert |
| Dickson, Charles Scott | Keswick, William | Randles, John S. |
| Disraeli, Coningsby Ralph | Lawson, John Grant | Ranklin, Sir James |
| Douglas, Rt. Hon. A. Akers- | Legge, Col. Hon. Heneage | Reid, James (Greenock) |
| Doxford, Sir W. Theodore | Leigh-Bennett, Henry Currie | Remnant, James Farquharson |
| Durning-Lawrence, Sir Edwin | Leveson-Gower, Frederick N. S. | Ridley, Hn. M. W. (Stalybridge |
| Fellowes, Hon. A. Edward | Loder, Gerald Walter Erskine | Ridley, S Forde (Bethnal Green) |
| Fielden, Edward Brocklehurst | Long, Col. Chas. W. (Evesham) | Ritchie, Rt. Hn. Chas. Thomson |
| Finch, George H. | Long, Rt. Hn. Walter (Bristol, S. | Robertson, Herbert (Hackney |
| Finlay, Sir Robert Banuatyne | Lowther, C. (Cumb. Eskdale) | Ropner, Colonel Robert |
| Firbank, Joseph Thomas | Loyd, Archie Kirkman | Royds, Clement Molyneux |
| Fisher, William Hayes | Macartney, Rt. Hn. W. G. E. | Sackville, Col. S. G. Stopford- |
| Fitzroy, Hon. Edward Algernon | Macdona, John Cumming | Sadler, Col. Samuel Alexander |
| Flower, Ernest | Maconochie, A. W. | Sassoon, Sir Edward Albert |
| Foster, Philip S. (Warwick S W. | M'Arthur, Charles (Liverpool) | Scott, Sir S. (Marlebone, W.) |
| Gardner, Ernest | M'Calmont, Col. J. (Antrim, E.) | Smith, Abel, H. (Hertford, East |
| Godson, Sir Augustus Frederick | M'Killop, James (Stirlingsh. | Smith H C (North'mb. Tyneside |
| Gordon, Hn. J. E. (Elgin & Nairn | Majendie, James H. H. | Smith, Jas. Parker (Lanarks.) |
| Gordon, J. (Londonderry, South | Massey Mainwairing, Hn. W F. | Smith, Hon. W. F. D. (Strand) |
| Goschen, Hon. George Joachim | Melville, Beresford Valentine | Spear, John Ward |
| Goulding, Edward Alfred | Molesworth, Sir Lewis | Spencer, Ernest (W. Bromwich) |
| Greene, W. Raymond- (Cambs.) | Moon, Edward Robert Pacy | Stanley, Hn. Arthur (Ormskirk |
| Groves, James Grimble | Moore, William (Antrim, N.) | Stanley, Lord (Lancs.) |
| Hambro, Charles Eric | More, Robt. Jasper (Shropsh. | Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester) |
| Hamilton, Rt Hn L'rd G (Mi'dl'x | Morgan, D. J. (Walthamstow | Tomlinson, Wm. Edw. Murray |
| Hanbury, Rt. Hon. Robert Wm. | Morrell, George Herbert | Tufnell, Lieut.-Col. Edward |
| Harris, Frederick Leverton | Morris, Hon Martin Henry F. | Valentia, Viscount |
| Haslett, Sir James Horner | Mount, William Arthur | Walker, Col. William Hall |
| Heath, Arthur Howard (Hanley | Murray, Rt Hn A Graham (Bute | Webb, Col. William George |
| Heath, James (Staffords., N. W. | Murray, Charles J. (Coventry | Williams, Col. R. (Dorset) |
| Heaton, John Henniker | Nicol, Donald Ninian | Wilson, A. Stanley (York, E. R. |
| Hermon-Hodge, Robert Trotter | O'Neill, Hon. Robert Torrens | Wilson, J. W. (Worcestersh. N.) |
| Hope, J. F (Sheffield, Brightside | Palmer, Walter (Salisbury) | Wyndham, Rt. Hon. George |
| Hornby, Sir William Henry | Pierpoint, Robert | |
| Hoult, Joseph | Plummer, Walter R. | TELLERS FOR THE AYES—Sir William Walrond and Mr. Anstruther. |
| Hudson, George Bickersteth | Pretyman, Ernest George | |
| Johnston, William (Belfast) | Pryce-Jones, Lt.-Col. Edward | |
| NOES. | ||
| Abraham, William (Cork, N. E. | Hayne, Rt. Hon. Charles Seale- | O'Connor, James (Wicklow, W. |
| Ambrose, Robert | Healy, Timothy Michael | O'Donnell, John (Mayo, S.) |
| Barry, E. (Cork, S.) | Horniman, Frederick John | O'Donnell, T. (Kerry, W.) |
| Boland, John | Jones, William (Carnarv'nshire | O'Dowd, John |
| Boyle, James | Jordan, Jermiah | O'Kelly, Conor (Mayo, N.) |
| Burns, John | Joyce, Michael | O'Kelly, James (Roscommon, N |
| Caldwell, James | Kennedy, Patrick James | O'Malley, William |
| Campbell, John (Armagh, S.) | Leamy, Edmund | O'Mara, James |
| Carvill, Patrick Geo. Hamilton | Levy, Maurice | O'Shaughnessy, P. J. |
| Clancy, John Joseph | Lundon, W. | O'Shee, James John |
| Cogan, Denis J. | MacDonnell, Dr. Mark A. | Power, Patrick Joseph |
| Condon, Thomas Joseph | M'Dermott, Patrick | Reddy, M. |
| Crean, Eugene | M'Fadden, Edward | Redmond, John E. (Waterford) |
| Cullinan, J. | M'Govern, T. | Redmond, William (Clare) |
| Daly, James | Mansfield, Horace Rendell | Sheehan, Daniel Daniel |
| Delany, William | Morton, Edw. J. C. (Devonport) | Sullivan, Donald |
| Dillon, John | Moss, Samuel | Thomas, David Alfred (Merth'r |
| Doogan, P. C. | Murnaghan, George | White, Luke (York, E. R.) |
| Duffy, Willam J. | Murphy, John | White, Patrick (Meath, North) |
| Flavin, Michael Joseph | Nannetti, Joseph P. | Whitley, J. H. (Halifax) |
| Flynn, James Christopher | Nolan, Joseph (Louth, South) | |
| Gilhooly, James | Nussey, Thomas Willans | TELLERS FOR THE NOES—Sir Thomas Esmonde and Captain Donelan. |
| Griffith, Ellis J. | O'Brien, Kendal (Tipper'ry Mid | |
| Hammond, John | O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny) | |
| Hayden, John Patrick | O'Brien, P. J. (Tipperary, N.) |
§ Question put accordingly, "That the Chairman do report Progress; and ask leave to sit again."
236§ The Committee divided:—Ayes, 70; Noes, 140. (Division List No. 441.)
237| AYES. | ||
| Abraham, William (Cork, N. E | Boland, John | Caldwell, James |
| Ambrose, Robert | Boyle, James | Campbell, John (Armagh, S.) |
| Barry, E. (Cork, S.) | Burns, John | Carvill, Patrick Geo. Hamilton |
| Clancy, John Joseph | Kennedy, Patrick James | O'Dowd, John |
| Cogan, Denis J. | Leamy, Edmund | O'Kelly, Conor (Mayo, N.) |
| Condon, Thomas Joseph | Levy, Maurice | O'Kelly, James (Roscommon N |
| Crean, Eugene | Lundon, W. | O'Malley, William |
| Cullinan, J. | MacDonnell, Dr. Mark A. | O'Mara, James |
| Daly, James | M'Dermott, Patrick | O'Shaughnessy, P. J. |
| Delany, William | M'Fadden, Edward | O'Shee, James John |
| Dillon, John | M'Govern, T. | Power, Patrick Joseph |
| Doogan, P. C. | Mansfield, Horace Rendall | Reddy, M. |
| Duffy, William J. | Morton, Edw. J. C. (Devonport | Redmond, John E. (Waterford |
| Flavin, Michael Joseph | Moss, Samuel | Redmond, William (Clare) |
| Flynn, James Christopher | Murnaghan, George | Sheehan, Daniel Daniel |
| Gilhooly, James | Murphy, J. | Sullivan, Donal |
| Griffith, Ellis J. | Nannetti, Joseph P. | Thomas, David Alfred (Merth'r |
| Hammond, John | Nolan, Joseph (Louth, South) | White, Luke (York, E. R.) |
| Hayden, John Patrick | Nussey, Thomas Willans | White, Patrick (Meath North |
| Hayne, Rt. Hn. Charles Seale- | O'Brien, Kendal (Tipperary Md | Whitley, J. H. (Halifax) |
| Healy, Timothy Michael | O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny) | |
| Horniman, Frederick John | O'Brien, P. J. (Tipperary, N. | TELLERS FOR THE AYES—Sir Thomas Esmonde and Captain Donelan. |
| Jones, William (Carnarvonsh.) | O'Connor, James (Wicklow W. | |
| Jordan, Jeremiah | O'Donnell, John (Mayo, S.) | |
| Joyce, Michael | O'Donnell, T. (Kerry, W.) | |
| NOES. | ||
| Acland-Hood, Capt. Sir Alex F. | Gardner, Ernest | Morris, Hon. Martin Henry F. |
| Agg-Gardner, James Tynte | Godson, Sir Augustus Frederi'k | Mount, William Arthur |
| Agnew, Sir Andrew Noel | Gordon, Hn. J. E. (Elgin & Nairn | Murray, Rt. Hon. A. G. (Bute |
| Arkwright, John Stanhope | Gordon, J. (Londonderry South | Murray, Chas. J. (Coventry) |
| Arnold-Forster, Hugh O. | Goschen, Hon. George Joachim | Nicol, Donald Ninian |
| Arrol, Sir William | Goulding, Edward Alfred | O'Neill, Hon. R. Torrens |
| Atkinson, Rt. Hon. John | Greene, W Raymond- (Cambs.) | Palmer, Walter (Salisbury) |
| Balfour, Rt. Hon. A. J. (Manch'r | Groves, James Grimble | Pierpoint, Robert |
| Balfour, Capt. C. B. (Hornsey) | Hambro, Charles Eric | Plummer, Walter R. |
| Balfour, Rt Hn Gerald W (Leeds | Hamilton, Rt Hn Lord G. (Mid'x | Pretyman, Ernest George |
| Balfour, Kenneth R. (Christch. | Hanbury, Rt. Hon. Robert Wm. | Pryce-Jones, Lt.-Col. Edw. |
| Bathurst, Hon. Allen Benjamin | Harris, Frederick Leverton | Purvis, Robert |
| Bentinck, Lord Henry C. | Haslett, Sir James Horner | Randles, John S. |
| Bignold, Arthur | Heath, Arthur Howard (Hanley | Ranken, Sir James |
| Blundell, Colonel Henry | Heath, James (Staffords. N. W. | Reid, James (Greenock |
| Brassey, Albert | Heaton, John Henniker | Remnant, J. Farquharson |
| Bullard, Sir Harry | Hermon Hodge, Robert Trotter | Ridley, Hn. M. W. (Stalybrdge |
| Cavendish, R. F. (N. Lancs.) | Hope, J. F. (Sheffield Brightside | Ridley, S. F. (Bethnal Green) |
| Cavendish, V. C. W. (Derbysh.) | Hornby, Sir Wm. Henry | Ritchie, Rt. Hon. C. Thomson |
| Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor) | Hoult, Joseph | Robertson, Herbert (Hackney |
| Cecil, Lord Hugh (Greenwich) | Hudson, George Bickersteth | Ropner, Colonel Robert |
| Chamberlain, Rt. Hon. J. (Birm | Johnston, William (Belfast) | Royds, Clement Molyneux |
| Chamberlain, J. Austin (Worc'r | Kenyon, Hn. Geo. T. (Denbigh) | Sackville, Col. S. G Stopford- |
| Chapman, Edward | Keswick, William | Sadler, Col. S. Alexander |
| Charrington, Spencer | Lawson, John Grant | Sassoon, Sir Edward Albert |
| Churchill, Winston Spencer | Legge, Col. Hon. Heneage | Scott, Sir S. (Marylebone, W. |
| Cohen, Benjamin Louis | Leigh-Bennett, Henry Currie | Smith, A. H. (Hertford, East) |
| Collings, Rt. Hon. Jesse | Leveson-Gower, Frederick N S. | Smith, H. C. (North'mb. Tynsd. |
| Corbett, A. Cameron (Glasgow) | Loder, Gerald W. (Erskine) | Smith, J. Parker (Lanarks.) |
| Corbett, T. L. (Down, North) | Long, Col. Chas. W. (Evesh'm | Smith, Hon. W. F D. (Strand |
| Cranborne, Viscount | Long, Rt. Hn Walter (Bristol, S. | Spear, John Ward |
| Crossley, Sir Savile | Lowther, C. (Cumb., Eskdale) | Spencer, E. (W. Bromwich) |
| Davenport, W. Bromley- | Loyd, Archie, Kirkman | Stanley, Hn. A. (Ormskirk) |
| Davies, Sir Horatio D (Chatham | Macartney, Rt Hn. W. G Ellison | Stanley, Lord (Lancs. |
| Dickson, Charles Scott | Macdona, John Cumming | Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester) |
| Disraeli, Coningsby Ralph | M'aconochie, A. W. | Tomlinson, Wm. Edw. M. |
| Douglas, Rt. Hon. A. Akers- | M'Arthur, Charles (Liverpool) | Tufnell, Lieut.-Col. Edward |
| Doxford, Sir William Theodore | M'Calmont, Col. J. (Antrim E. | Valentia, Viscount |
| Durning-Lawrence, Sir Edwin | M'Killop, James (Stirlingshire | Walker, Col. William Hall |
| Fellowes, Hon. Ailwyn Edward | Majendie, James A. H. | Webb, Col. William George |
| Fielden, Edward Brocklehurst | Massey-Mainwaring, Hn. W F. | Williams, Col. R. (Dorset) |
| Finch, George H. | Molville, Beresford Valentine | Wilson, A. S. (York, E. R.) |
| Finlay, Sir Robert Bannatyue | Molesworth, Sir Lewis | Wilson, J. W. (Worc'tersh. N. |
| Firbank, Joseph Thomas | Moon, Edward Robert Pacy | Wyndham, Rt. Hon. George |
| Fisher, William Hayes | Moore, William (Antrim, N.) | |
| FitzRoy, Hn. Edward Algernon | More, Robt. Jasper (Shropshire | TELLERS FOR THE NOES—Sir William Walrond and Mr. Anstruther. |
| Flower, Ernest | Morgan, David J (Walthmst'w | |
| Foster, Philip S. (Warwick S. W | Morrell, George Herbert |
§ MR. A. J. BALFOURclaimed, "That the Original Question be now put."
§ MR. JOHN REDMONDasked whether, as the question had not been discussed at all, the Chairman could put the closure.
§ MR. JOHN REDMONDThe question has not been discussed.
§ MR. T. M. HEALYOn a point of order, I wish to ask you, Sir, whether there is any precedent for closuring the Appropriation Bill at any stage?
§ MR. JOHN REDMONDPrecedents do not matter!
§ Original Question put.
§ The Committee divided:—Ayes, 141; Noes, 68. (Division List No. 442.)
241| AYES. | ||
| Acland-Hood, Capt. Sir A. F. | Gardner, Ernest | Morris, Hon. Martin Henry F. |
| Agg-Gardner, James Tynte | Godson, Sir Augustus Frederick | Morton, Edw. J. C. (Devonport) |
| Agnew, Sir Andrew Noel | Gordon, Hn J. E. (Elgin & Nairn) | Mount, William Arthur |
| Arkwright, John Stanhope | Gordon, J. (Londonderry, S.) | Murray, Rt. Hn A. Graham (Bute |
| Arnold-Forster, H. O. | Goschen, Hon. George Joachim | Murray, Charles J. (Coventry) |
| Arrol, Sir William | Goulding, Edward Alfred | Nicol, Donald Ninian |
| Atkinson, Rt. Hon. John | Greene, W. Raymond- (Cambs. | Nussey, Thomas Willans |
| Balfour, Rt. Hn. A. J. (Manch'r | Groves, James Grimble | O'Neill, Hon. Robert Torrens |
| Balfour, Capt. C. B. (Hornsey) | Hambro, Charles Eric | Palmer, Walter (Salisbury) |
| Balfour, Rt. Hn Gerald W. (Leeds | Hamilton, Rt. Hn L'rd G (Midd'x | Pierpoint, Robert |
| Balfour, Kenneth R. (Christch. | Hanbury, Rt. Hon. Robert Wm. | Plummer, Walter R. |
| Bathurst, Hn. Allen Benjamin | Harris, Frederick Leverton | Pretyman, Ernest George |
| Bentinck, Lord Henry C. | Haslett, Sir James Horner | Pryce-Jones, Lt.-Col. Edward |
| Bignold, Arthur | Heath, Arthur Howard (Hanley | Purvis, Robert |
| Blundell, Col. Henry | Heath, James (Staffords., N. W. | Randles, John S. |
| Brassey, Albert | Heaton, John Henniker | Rankin, Sir James |
| Bullard, Sir Harry | Hermon-Hodge, Robert Trotter | Reid, James (Greenock) |
| Cavendish, R. F. (N. Lancs.) | Hope, J. F (Sheffield, Brightside | Remnant, James Farquharson |
| Cavendish, V. C. W. (Derbysh. | Hornby, Sir William Henry | Ridley, Hn. M. W. (Stalybridge |
| Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor) | Hoult, Joseph | Ridley, S. Forde (Bethnal Green |
| Cecil, Lord Hugh (Greenwich) | Hudson, George Bickersteth | Ritchie, Rt. Hn. Chas. Thomson |
| Chamberlain, Rt. Hn. J. (Birm. | Johnston, William (Belfast) | Robertson, Herbert (Hackney) |
| Chamberlain, J. Austen (Worc'r | Kenyon, Hon Geo. T. (Denbigh) | Ropner, Colonel Robert |
| (Chapman, Edward | Keswick, William | Royds, Clement Molyneux |
| Charrington, Spencer | Lawson, John Grant | Sackville, Col. S. G. Stopford- |
| Churchill, Winston Spencer | Legge, Col. Hon. Heneage | Sadler, Col. Samuel Alexander |
| Cohen, Benjamin Louis | Leigh-Bennett, Henry Currie | Sassoon, Sir Edward Albert |
| Collings, Rt. Hon. Jesse | Leveson-Gower, Fr'derick N. S. | Scott, Sir S. (Marylebone, W.) |
| Corbett, A. Cameron (Glasgow | Loder, Gerald Walter Erskine | Smith, Abel H. (Hertford, East) |
| Corbett, T. L. (Down, North) | Long, Col. Charles W. (Evesham | Smith, H C (North'mb Tyneside |
| Cranborne, Viscount | Long, Rt. Hn. Walter (Bristol, S. | Smith, James Parker (Lanarks. |
| Crossley, Sir Savile | Lowther, C. (Climb., Eskdale) | Smith, Hon. W. F. D. (Strand) |
| Davenport, William Bromley- | Loyd, Archie Kirkman | Spear, John Ward |
| Davies, Sir Horatio D (Chatham | Macartney, Rt. Hn W. G. Ellison | Spencer, Ernest (W. Bromwich) |
| Dickson, Charles Scott | Macdona, John Cumming | Stanley, Hn. Arthur (Ormskirk |
| Disraeli, Coningsby Ralph | Maconochie, A. W. | Stanley, Lord (Lancs.) |
| Douglas, Rt. Hon. A. Akers- | M'Arthur, Charles (Liverpool) | Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester) |
| Doxford, Sir Wm. Theodore | M'Calmont, Col. J. (Antrim, E.) | Tomlinson, Wm. Edw. Murray |
| Durning Lawrence, Sir Edwin | M'Killop, James (Stirlingshire) | Valentia, Viscount |
| Fellowes, Hon. Ailwyn Edw. | Majendie, James A. H. | Walker, Col. William Hall |
| Fielden, Edward Brocklehurst | Massey-Mainwaring, Hn W. F. | Webb, Colonel William George |
| Finch, George H. | Melville, Beresford Valentine | Williams, Colonel R. (Dorset) |
| Finlay, Sir Robert Bannatyne | Molesworth, Sir Lewis | Wilson, A. Stanley (York E. R.) |
| Firbank, Joseph Thomas | Moon, Edward Robert Pacy | Wilson, J. W. (Worcestersh. N. |
| Fisher, William Hayes | Moore, William (Antrim, N.) | Wyndham, Rt. Hon. George |
| Fitzroy, Hn. Edward Algernon | More, Robt. Jasper (Shropshire) | TELLERS FOR THE AYES—Sir William Walrond and Mr. Anstruther. |
| Flower, Ernest | Morgan, David J (Walthamst'w | |
| Foster, Philip S (Warwick, S. W. | Morrell, George Herbert | |
| NOES. | ||
| Abraham, William (Cork, N. E) | Boland, John | Caldwell, James |
| Ambrose, Robert | Boyle, James | Campbell, John (Armagh, S.) |
| Barry, E. (Cork, S.) | Burns, John | Carvill, Patrick Geo. Hamilton |
| Clancy, John Joseph | Joyce, Michael | O'Dowd, John |
| Cogan, Denis J. | Kennedy, Patrick James | O'Kelly, Conor (Mayo, N.) |
| Condon, Thomas Joseph | Loamy, Edmund | O'Kelly, James (Roscommon, N |
| Crean, Eugene | Levy, Maurice | O'Malley, William |
| Cullinan, J. | Lundon, W. | O'Mara, James |
| Daly, James | MacDonnell, Dr. Mark A. | O'Shaughnessy, P. J. |
| Delany, William | M'Dermott, Patrick | O'Shee, James John |
| Dillon, John | M'Fadden, Edward | Power, Patrick Joseph |
| Doogan, P. C. | M'Govern, T. | Reddy, M. |
| Daffy, William J. | Mansfield, Horace Rendall | Redmond, John E. (Waterford |
| Flavin, Michael Joseph | Moss, Samuel | Redmond, William (Clare) |
| Flynn, James Christopher | Murnaghan, George | Sheehan, Daniel Daniel |
| Gilhooly, James | Murphy, John | Sullivan, Donal |
| Griffith, Ellis J. | Nannetti, Joseph P. | Thomas, David A. (Merthyr) |
| Hammond, John | Nolan, Joseph (Louth, South) | White, Luke (York, E. K.) |
| Hayden, John Patrick | O'Brien, Kendal (Tipperary Mid | White, Patrick (Meath, North |
| Hayne, Ht. Hn. Charles Seale- | O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny) | Whitley, J. H. (Halifax) |
| Healy, Timothy Michael | O'Brien, P. J. (Tipperary, N.) | |
| Horniman, Frederick John | O'Connor, James (Wicklow, W. | TELLERS FOR THE NOES—Sir |
| Jones, William (Carnarvonsh.) | O'Donnell, T. (Kerry, W. | Thomas Esmonde and Captain Donelan. |
| Jordan, Jeremiah | O'Donnell, John (Mayo, S.) |
§ Resolved, That, towards making good the Supply granted to His Majesty for the Service of the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1902, the sum of £86,756,285 be granted out of the Consolidated Fund of the United Kingdom.
§ Question proposed, "That the Chairman do report the resolution to the House."
§ MR. T. M. HEALYsaid he understood that the Chairman was about to put the question that the resolution be reported to the House. The closure motion clearly did not cover that.
*THE CHAIRMANThe motion is a purely formal one, and it would he quite contrary to all practice and precedent to discuss it, although the House might divide upon it.
§ MR. T. M. HEALYsaid that the motion to report progress had been discussed on a hundred occasions. He submitted he was entitled to assert his right to speak on any question put from the Chair. A question having been put from the Chair, it was a great innovation to suggest that hon. members were not entitled to discuss it. They had sat through the night in great good humour on both sides, but it was unfair that they who had borne the heat and burden of the day should now be denied audience. The First Lord of the Treasury had inaugurated a procedure which if the 242 gas had not been turned off he would have called the Cecilian vespers—
*THE CHAIRMANI did not interrupt the hon. Gentleman because he stated that he knew of a hundred occasions on which similar debates had taken place; but it is perfectly clear that the debate must be strictly relevant to the question that I report the resolution to the House. The hon. Member cannot go back on the resolution.
§ MR. T. M. HEALYsaid he agreed. If he had imagined for a moment that the right of a man to speak on the motion would have been challenged he would have been prepared to quote precedents from Hansard. The impatience of the Treasury Bench was most unusual. They had got all the money they wanted, and they would have a garden party on Saturday. The steps which had been taken by the right hon. Gentleman to closure the debate—
*THE CHAIRMANThe hon. Gentleman is not entitled to go back on the closure of the debate. That was the action of the Committee. I must invite the hon. Gentleman to confine himself strictly to the question as to whether or not I report the resolution to the House.
§ MR. T. M. HEALYsaid he did not desire to infringe the rules of debate. He would merely state that he would oppose the motion on the ground of the 243 application of the closure to the formal stage of a Bill, which, no matter what business had been before the House, had always been treated as a free and open motion, in the discussion of which every hon. Member was entitled to participate.
§ MR. DILLONsaid he opposed the motion because the resolution had not been debated. He was rather astonished to hear the opinion from the Chair that because a discussion was unprecedented therefore it should not be taken; but they had been doing unprecedented things throughout the night. Why should the Question be put from the Chair at all unless it could be discussed. It was an extraordinary position to assume that members should be denied the right to discuss a motion put from the Chair; but apparently they were not to be given any opportunities for discussion, except such as fitted in with the motions of the First Lord of the Treasury.
§ MR. LEAMY (Kildare, N.)said that it appeared to him if a question were put from the Chair, and if hon. members were denied the right to discuss it, that was treating the House of Commons with contempt.
*THE CHAIRMANThe hon. Gentleman is now discussing the point of order. I have given way on that, and I must invite the hon. Gentleman to confine himself strictly to the Question that I report this resolution to the House.
§ MR. LEAMYsaid he had no desire to intrude on the time of the Committee, but if recent procedure had not been
§ adopted it was quite possible that all those questions would have been settled hours ago. He would point out that the House was not in a position at that hour of the morning to discuss such a grave and serious resolution. There had been no discussion in Committee, and it was not fair to ask the House to discuss the question at six o'clock in the morning. Everything seemed to be rushed through at motor-car speed, and what was it all for? The whole object was to enable right hon. Gentlemen to get down to Blenheim on Saturday.
§ MR. LEAMYsaid it was stated and not contradicted that that was the reason for the expedition of business.
§ MR. LEAMYsaid he accepted the ruling of the Chair. They would be able to deal with the matter again. Considering the amount of business which had been transacted during the sitting, he thought it very unfair to report the resolution without discussion.
§ MR. A. J. BALFOURrose in Ids place, and claimed to move, "That the Question be now put."
§ Question put, "That the Question be now put"
§ The Committee divided:—Ayes, 140; Noes, 70. (Division List No. 443.)
245| AYES. | ||
| Acland-Hood, Capt, Sir A. F. | Bullard, Sir Harry | Davenport, William Bromley |
| Agg-Gardner, James Tynte | Cavendish, R. F. (N. Lancs.) | Davies, Sir H. D. (Chatham) |
| Agnew, Sir Andrew Noel | Cavendish, V. C. W. (Derbysh. | Dickson, Charles Scott |
| Arkwright, John Stanhope | Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor) | Disraeli, Coningsby Ralph |
| Arnold-Forster, Hugh O. | Cecil, Lord Hugh (Greenwich) | Douglas, Rt. Hon. A. Akers |
| Arrol, Sir William | Chamberlain, Rt. Hn. J. (Birm. | Doxford, Sir W. Theodore |
| Atkinson, Rt. Hon. John | Chamberlain, J. A. (Worc'r.) | Durning-Lawrence, Sir Edwin |
| Balfour, Rt. Hn. A. J. (Manch'r) | Chapman, Edward | Fellowes, Hon. A. Edward |
| Balfour, Capt. C. B. (Hornsey) | Charrington, Spencer | Fielden, Edward Brocklehurst |
| Balfour, Rt. Ha. G. W. (Leeds | Churchill, Winston Spencer | Finch, George H. |
| Balfour, K. R. (Christchurch) | Cohen, Benjamin Louis | Finlay, Sir R. Bannatyne |
| Bathurst, Hon. A. Benjamin | Collings, Rt. Hon. Jesse | Firbank, Joseph Thomas |
| Bentinck, Lord Henry C. | Corbett, A. C. (Glasgow) | Fisher, William Hayes |
| Bignold, Arthur | Corbett, T. L. (Down, North) | Fitzroy, Hon. E. Algernon |
| Blundell, Colonel Henry | Cranborne, Viscount | Flower, Ernest |
| Brassey, Albert | Crossley, Sir Savile | Foster, Philip, S. (Warwick. S W |
| Gardner, Ernest | Loyd, Archie Kirkman | Ridley, Hn. M. W. (Stalybridge |
| Godson, Sir Augustus F. | Macartney, Rt. Hn W. G. Ellison | Ridley, S. F. (Bethnal Green) |
| Gordon, Hn. J. E. (Elgin & Nairn | Macdona, John Cumming | Ritchie, Rt. Hon. Chas. T. |
| Gordon, J. (Londonderry, S.) | Maconochie, A. W. | Robertson, Herbt. (Hackney) |
| Goschen, Hon. George Joachim | Marthur, Charles (Liverpool) | Ropner, Col. Robert |
| Goulding, Edward Alfred | M'Calmont, Col. J. (Antrim, E.) | Royds, Clement Molyneux |
| Greene, W. Raymond- (Cambs. | M'Killop, James (Stirlingshire) | Sackville, Col. S. G. Stopford- |
| Groves, James Grimble | Majendie, James A. H. | Sadler, Col. Samuel Alex. |
| Hambro, Charles Eric | Massey-Mainwaring, Hn. W. F. | Sassoon, Sir Edward Albert |
| Hamilton, Rt. Hn Lord G (Mid'x. | Melville, Beresford Valentine | Scott, Sir S. (Marylebone, W.) |
| Hanbury, Rt. Hon. Robert Wm. | Molesworth, Sir Lewis | Smith, A. H. (Hertford, East) |
| Harris, Frederick Leverton | Moon, Edward Robert Pacy | Smith, H C (N'rth'mb., Tneside |
| Haslett, Sir James Horner | Moore, William (Antrim, N.) | Smith, James P. (Lanarks.) |
| Heath, Arthur Howard (Hanley | More, Robert J. (Shropshire) | Smith, Hon. W. E. D. (Strand) |
| Heath, James (Staffords., N. W. | Morgan, D. J. (Walthamstow | Spear, John Ward |
| Heaton, John Henniker | Morrell, George Herbert | Spencer, E. (W. Bromwich) |
| Hermon-Hodge, Robert Trotter | Morris, Hon. Martin Hy. F. | Stanley, Hon. A. (Ormskirk) |
| Hope, J. F (Sheffield, Brightside | Mount, William Arthur | Stanley, Lord (Lancs.) |
| Hornby, Sir William Henry | Murray, Rt. Hn. A. G. (Bute | Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester) |
| Hoult, Joseph | Murray, Chas. J. (Coventry) | Tomlinson, Wm. E. Murray |
| Hudson, George Bickersteth | Nichol, Donald Ninian | Valentia, Viscount |
| Johnston, William (Belfast) | O'Neill, Hon. Robert T. | Walker, Col. William Hall |
| Kenyon, Hon. Geo. T. (Denbigh | Palmer, Walter (Salisbury) | Webb, Col. William George |
| Keswick, William | Pierpoint, Robert | Williams, Col. R. (Dorset) |
| Lawson, John Grant | Plummer, Walter R. | Wilson, A. S. (Yorks, E. R.) |
| Legge, Col. Hon. Heneage | Pretyman, Ernest George | Wilson, J. W. (Worcestersh., N. |
| Leigh-Bennett, Henry Currie | Pryce-Jones, Lt.-Col. Edward | Wyndham, Rt. Hon. George |
| Leveson-Gower, Frederick N. S | Purvis, Robert | |
| Loder, Gerald Walter Erskine | Randles, John S. | TELLERS FOR THE AYES—Sir William Walrond and Mr. Anstruther. |
| Long, Col. Charles W (Evesham | Rankin, Sir James | |
| Long, Rt. Hn Walter (Bristol, S. | Reid, James (Greenock) | |
| Lowther, C. (Cumb., Eskdale) | Remnant, James Farquharson | |
| NOES. | ||
| Abraham, William (Cork, N. E. | Hayne, Rt. Hn. Charles Seale- | O'Connor, James (Wicklow, W. |
| Ambrose, Robert | Healy, Timothy Michael | O'Donnell, John (Mayo, S.) |
| Barry, E. (Cork, S.) | Horniman, Frederick John | O'Donnell, T. (Kerry, W.) |
| Boland, John | Jones, Wm. (Carnarvonshire) | O'Dowd, John |
| Boyle, James | Jordan, Jeremiah | O'Kelly, Conor (Mayo, N.) |
| Burns, John | Joyce, Michael | O'Kelly, James (Roscommon, N |
| Caldwell, James | Kennedy, Patrick James | O'Malley, William |
| Campbell, John (Armagh, S.) | Leamy, Edmund | O'Mara, James |
| Carvill, Patrick Geo. Hamilton | Levy, Maurice | O'Shaughnessy, P. J. |
| Clancy, John Joseph | Lundon, W. | O'Shee, James John |
| Cogan, Denis J. | MacDonnell, Dr. Mark A. | Power, Patrick Joseph |
| Condon, Thomas Joseph | M'Dermott, Patrick | Reddy, M. |
| Crean, Eugene | M'Fadden, Edward | Redmond, John E. (Waterford) |
| Cullinan, J. | M'Govern, T. | Redmond, William (Clare) |
| Daly, James | Mansfield, Horace Rendall | Sheehan, Daniel Daniel |
| Delany, William | Morton, Edw. J. C. (Devonport) | Sullivan, Donal |
| Dillon, John | Moss, Samuel | Thomas, David A. (Merthyr) |
| Doogan, P. C. | Murnaghan, George | White, Luke (Yorks, E. R.) |
| Duffy, William J. | Murphy, John | White, Patrick (Meath, North) |
| Flavin, Michael Joseph | Nannetti, Joseph P. | Whitley, J. H. (Halifax) |
| Flynn, James Christopher | Nolan, Joseph (Louth, South) | |
| Gilhooly, James | Nussey, Thomas Willans | TELLERS FOR THE NOES—Sir Thomas Esmonde and Captain Donelan. |
| Griffith, Ellis J. | O'Brien, Kendal (Tipp'rary Mid | |
| Hammond, John | O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny) | |
| Hayden, John Patrick | O'Brien, P. J. (Tipperary, N.) |
§ Question put accordingly, "That the Chairman do report the Resolution to the House."
246§ The Committee divided:—Ayes, 139; Noes, 70. (Division List No. 444.)
247| AYES. | ||
| Acland-Hood, Capt. Sir A. F. | Balfour, Capt. C. B. (Hornsey) | Bullard, Sir Harry |
| Agg-Gardner, James Tynte | Balfour, Rt. Hn Gerald W (Leeds | Cavendish, R. F. (N. Lancs.) |
| Agnew, Sir Andrew Noel | Balfour, Kenneth R. (Christch. | Cavendish, V. C. W. (Derbysh. |
| Arkwright, John Stanhope | Bathurst, Hon. Allen Benjamin | Cecil, Evelyn (Aston Manor) |
| Arnold-Forster, Hugh O. | Bentinck, Lord Henry C. | Cecil, Lord Hugh (Greenwich) |
| Arrol, Sir William | Bignold, Arthur | Chamberlain, Rt. Hn. J. (Birm. |
| Atkinson, Rt. Hon. John | Blundell, Col. Henry | Chamberlain, J Austen (Worc'r |
| Balfour, Rt. Hn. A. J. (Manch'r | Brassey, Albert | Chapman, Edward |
| Charrington, Spencer | Hermon-Hodge, Robert Trotter | Pierpoint, Robert |
| Churchill, Winston Spencer | Hope, J F. (Sheffield, Brightside | Plummer, Walter R. |
| Cohen, Benjamin Louis | Hornby, Sir William Henry | Pretyman, Ernest George |
| Collings, Rt. Hn. Jesse | Hoult, Joseph | Pryce Jones, Lt.-Col. Edward |
| Corbett, A. Cameron (Glasgow | Hudson, George Bickersteth | Purvis, Robert |
| Corbett, T. L. (Down, North) | Johnston, William (Belfast) | Randles, John S. |
| Cranborne, Viscount | Kenyon, Hon. Geo. T. (Denbigh | Rankin, Sir James |
| Crossley, Sir Savile | Keswick, William | Reid, James (Greenock) |
| Davenport, William Bromley- | Lawson, John Grant | Remnant, James Farquharson |
| Davies, Sir Horatio D (Chatham | Legge, Col. Hon. Heneage | Ridley, Hon-M. W (Stalybridge |
| Dickson, Charles Scott | Leigh-Bennett, Henry Currie | Ridley, S. Forde (Bethnal Green |
| Disraeli, Coningsby Ralph | Leveson-Gower, Frederick N. S. | Ritchie, Rt. Hon Chas Thomson |
| Douglas, Rt. Hon. A. Akers- | Loder, Gerald Walter Erskine | Robertson, Herbert (Hackney) |
| Doxford, Sir Wm. Theodore | Long, Col. Charles W. (Evesham | Ropner, Colonel Robert |
| Durning-Lawrence, Sir Edwin | Long, Rt. Hn. Walter (Bristol, S | Royds, Clement Molyneux |
| Fellowes, Hon. Ailwyn Edw. | Lowther, C. (Cumb., Eskdale) | Sackville, Col. S. G. Stopford- |
| Fielden, Edward Brocklehurst | Loyd, Archie Kirkman | Sadler, Col. Samuel Alexander |
| Finch, George H. | Macartney, Rt. Hn W. G. Ellison | Sassoon, Sir Edward Albert |
| Finlay, Sir Robert Bannatyne | Macdona, John Cumming | Scott, Sir S. (Marylebone, W.) |
| Firbank, Joseph Thomas | Maconochie, A. W. | Smith, Abel H. (Hertford, Hast |
| Fisher, William Hayes | M'Arthnr, Charles (Liverpool) | Smith, H C (North'mb Tyneside |
| Fitzroy, Hn. Edward Algernon | M'Calmont, Col. J. (Antrim, E. | Smith, James Parker (Lanarks. |
| Flower, Ernest | M'Killop, James (Stirlingshire | Smith, Hon. W. F. D. (Strand) |
| Foster, Philip S (Warwick, S. W. | Majendie, James A. H. | Spear, John Ward |
| Gardner, Ernest | Massey-Mainwaring, Hn. W. F. | Spencer, Ernest (W. Bromwich |
| Godson, Sir Augustus Frederick | Melville, Beresford Valentine | Stanley, Hn. Arthur (Ormskirk |
| Gordon, Hn J. E. (Elgin & Nairn) | Molesworth, Sir Lewis | Stanley, Lord (Lancs.) |
| Gordon, J. (Londonderry, S.) | Moon, Edward Robert Pacy | Talbot, Lord E. (Chichester) |
| Goschen, Hon. George Joachim | Moore, William (Antrim, N.) | Tomlinson, Wm. Edw. Murray |
| Goulding, Edward Alfred | More, Robt. Jasper (Shropshire) | Valentia, Viscount |
| Greene, W. Raymond- (Cambs.) | Morgan, David J (Walthamst'w | Walker, Col, William Hall |
| Groves, James Grimble | Morrell, George Herbert | Webb, Colonel William Hall |
| Hambro, Charles Eric | Morriss, Hon. Martin Henry F. | Williams, Colonel R. (Dorset) |
| Hamilton, Rt. Hn L'rd G (Midd'x | Morrison, James Archibald | Wilson, A. Stanley (York, E. R.) |
| Hanbury, Rt. Hon. Robert Wm. | Mount, William Arthur | Wilson, J. W (Worcestersh. N.) |
| Harris, Frederick Leverton | Murray, Rt. Hn A Graham (Bute | Wyndham, Rt. Hon. George |
| Haslett, Sir James Horner | Murray, Charles J. (Coventry) | |
| Heath, Arthur Howard (Hanley | Nicol, Donald Ninian | TELLERS FOR THE AYES—Sir William Walrond and Mr. Anstruther. |
| Heath, James (Staffords., N. W. | O'Neill, Hon. Robert Torrens | |
| Heaton, John Henniker | Palmer, Walter (Salisbury) | |
| NOES. | ||
| Abraham, William (Cork, N. E. | Hayne, Rt. Hn. Charles Seale- | O'Connor, James (Wicklow, W. |
| Ambrose, Robert | Healy, Timothy Michael | O'Donnell, John (Mayo, S.) |
| Barry, E. (Cork, S.) | Horniman, Frederick John | O'Donnell, T. (Kerry, W.) |
| Boland, John | Jones, William (Carnarvonshire | O'Dowd, John |
| Boyle, James | Jordan, Jeremiah | O'Kelly, Conor (Mayo, N.) |
| Burns, John | Joyce, Michael | O'Kelly, James Roscommon, N. |
| Caldwell, James | Kennedy, Patrick James | O'Malley, William |
| Campbell, John (Armagh, S.) | Leamy, Edmund | O'Mara, James |
| Carvill, Patrick G. Hamilton | Levy, Maurice | O'Shaughnessy, P. J. |
| Clancy, John Joseph | Lundon, W. | O'Shee, James John |
| Cogan, Denis J. | MacDonnell, Dr. Mark A. | Power, Patrick Joseph |
| Condon, Thomas Joseph | M'Dermott, Patrick | Reddy, M. |
| Crean, Eugene | M'Fadden, Edward | Redmond, John E. (Waterford) |
| Cullinan, J. | M'Govern, T. | Redmond, William (Clare) |
| Daly, James | Mansfield, Horace Rendall | Sheehan, Daniel Daniel |
| Delany, William | Morton, Edw. J. C. (Devonport) | Sullivan, Donal |
| Dillon, John | Moss, Samuel | Thomas, D. Alfred (Merthyr) |
| Doogan, P. C. | Murnaghan, George | White, Luke (York, E. R.) |
| Duffy, William J. | Murphy, John | White, Patrick (Meath, North) |
| Flavin, Michael Joseph | Nannetti, Joseph P. | Whitley, J. H. (Halifax) |
| Flynn, James Christopher | Nolan, Joseph (Louth, South) | |
| Gilhooly, James | Nussey, Thomas Willans | TELLERS FOR THE NOES—Sir Thomas Esmonde and Captain Donelan. |
| Griffith, Ellis J. | O'Brien, Kendal (Tippera'y Mid | |
| Hammond, John | O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny) | |
| Hayden, John Patrick | O'Brien, P. J. (Tipperary, N.) |
§ Resolution to be reported to-morrow.
§ In pursuance of the Order of the House of the 22nd day of July last,
248§ Mr. SPEAKER adjourned the House without Question put.
§ Adjourned at Six of the clock, a.m.