HC Deb 08 May 1900 vol 82 cc1127-31

[RESOLUTION.]

MR. LLOYD-GEOEGE (Carnarvon Boroughs)

Although the House has just decided against short speeches, I can assure hon. Members that I am not going to make a long speech, and I will undertake to limit myself to five minutes. I move the motion standing in my name, but I do not propose to press it to a division, and I formally move it in the hope that it will elicit from the President of the Local Government Board a favourable reply. I may say that the right hon. Gentleman has agreed to receive a deputation on the subject. All I want is that a clause in the Act of 1888, passed by a Conservative Government, which has lain dormant up to the present, should be put into operation. Under this clause powers are conferred upon various Government departments of delegating portions of their powers to county councils. It is a very useful clause, and great expectations have been formed of it. Unfortunately, however, in England, although the Government are prepared to put this section into operation, the non-county boroughs have placed obstacles in the way of its use, but this does not apply in the case of Wales, where there is none of this rivalry and jealousy existing. I do not believe that there is in Wales a single non-county borough which objects to this section being applied, and I do trust that the right hon. Gentleman will allow us to make this experiment. The councils of Wales are unanimous upon this question, and the Welsh county councils have formed a kind of joint committee, each council nominating two or three delegates, and they met at Shrewsbury. It is a perfectly non-partisan movement, for the chairman of the Committee is a well known, highly respected, and influential Unionist in the Principality. This Committee is now framing its proposals, and all I have to ask the President of the Local Government Board is that he shall receive a deputation from that body, who will present their case to him, and let him know the sort of powers they wish should be delegated to these bodies. I beg to move the resolution standing in my name.

* Sir JOHN JENKINS (Carmarthen Boroughs)

I have very much pleasure in seconding this motion. I agree with my hon. friend that the experiment is well worth trying, and I do not know that it can be better tried than by an application to Wales. The county councils of Wales are unanimous upon this question, and I trust that those who have opposed this proposal for England will not stand in the way of this experiment being tried in Wales. I hope the President of the Local Government Board will be good enough to receive a deputation, and if he does, I think that he will fall in with their views, and take steps to bring in a Bill dealing with the matter.

Motion made, and Question proposed, "That it is desirable the provision made by Section 10 of the Local Government Act, 1888, for the transfer to county councils and joint committees of county councils of powers now vested in certain Government Departments should be put into operation forthwith; and, inasmuch as the Welsh county councils are unanimously desirous of obtaining such increased powers, and the obstacles opposed by the non-county boroughs in England to the effecting of such a transfer are not raised by the non-county boroughs of Wales, that it is expedient the experiment of such a transfer should first of all be made in Wales."—(Mr. Lloyd-George.)

THE PRESIDENT OF THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT BOARD (Mr. CHAPLIN, Lincolnshire, Sleaford)

The hon. Member for Carnarvon spoke to me on this subject yesterday, and he led me to understand that if I was willing to receive a deputation representing Welsh county councils, who desire to put their views before me, he would not proceed with this motion. Repeating what I said then to the hon. Member, I say at once that I shall be very glad to receive the deputation, and the hon. Member may rely upon my best attention being given to their representations.

MR. HERBERT LEWIS (Flint Boroughs)

I only rise for the purpose of saying, as a Welsh Member, that I desire to thank the right hon. Gentleman the President of the Local Government Board for the spirit in which he has received this suggestion. The county councils of Wales are absolutely unanimous upon this subject, and I may say that it is not a party question at all, but it is purely a matter of administrative business. The county councils have worked well for the last eleven years, and they have shown their capacity in Wales to work together in regard to administrative questions, and they have shown how administrative business can be most effectively carried out. I think I am justified in saying that Welsh Members on both sides of the House support this motion.

MR. LLOYD-GEORGE

After what has fallen from the right hon. Gentleman the President of the Local Government Board, I beg to withdraw my motion.

Motion, by leave, withdrawn.