HC Deb 22 March 1900 vol 81 cc141-5

Resolution reported, "That it is expedient to amend the law relating to the number of the staff of the General Board of Commissioners in Lunacy for Scotland, and to authorise the payment, out of moneys to be provided by Parliament, of their salaries, and of the expenses of the Board, and the remuneration of the Chairman and Commissioners."

Resolution read a second time.

Motion made and Question proposed, "That this House doth agree with the Committee in the said Resolution."


asked if the Lord Advocate would kindly explain the purposes of the resolution.


I have already done so, but I will explain again. The Bill is purely a Treasury Bill. According to the scale usually paid the present officials of the Lunacy Board are much underpaid, and the Bill simply allows the Treasury to fix the salaries of the secretary and the staff. There is also power to made a small payment for extra services rendered by the unpaid Commissioners.

MR. CALDWELL (Lanarkshire, Mid)

said he differed from the Lord Advocate with regard to the object of the resolution. The great object of the resolution was to provide salaries for certain Commissioners who at the present moment were by Act of Parliament declared to be unpaid. There were in Scotland two Commissioners of Lunacy at £1,200 a year, and two Deputy Commissioners at £600 a year each. England, with seven times the work, had only six paid Commissioners, and Ireland had only two. It was now proposed to pay the chairman of the Board in Scotland, although hitherto his duties had been discharged in the public interest without fee or reward. They were now asked to pay a salary to a man who only gave partial attention to the business, and to establish the principle that a man who discharged a public duty should be paid. That would apply to County Councillors and Members of Parliament. Hitherto the work had been done gratuitously, and now the Chairman of the Board, who was a nephew of the Secretary for Scotland, was to be paid. Why should he receive a salary when hitherto the work had been done gratuitously? That was the object of the resolution; the other objects mentioned by the Lord Advocate were merely makeshifts. He would oppose the Bill at every stage, and would denounce as an act of jobbery on

the part of the Secretary for Scotland the payment of a salary to his own nephew for work which had always been done gratuitously. He did not, however, intend to trouble the House with a division now.


The hon. Gentleman is quite wrong. There is no power to give a salary in respect of the unpaid Commissioners.


said it was called, not salary, but remuneration in the resolution.

MR. DALY (Monaghan, S.)

said under the circumstances he felt it his duty to divide the House, because the Irish Members had not received fair treatment in their demand for the readjustment of the taxation of Ireland. He felt that the resolution should not be passed, and he hoped hon. Gentlemen from Ireland would oppose it.

Question put.

The House divided:—Ayes, 115; Noes, 38. (Division List No. 77.)

Atkinson, Rt. Hon. John Gretton, John O'Neill, Hon. Robert Torrens
Bailey, James (Walworth) Greville, Hon. Ronald Penn, John
Balcarres, Lord Gull, Sir Cameron Phillpotts, Captain Arthur
Balfour, Rt. Hn. A. J. (Manch'r Hamilton, Rt. Hon. Lord Geo. Platt-Higgins, Frederick
Banbury, Frederick George Hanbury, Rt. Hon. Robert Wm. Plunkett, Rt Hn Horace Curzon
Barry, Rt Hn A H Smith- (Hunts Hare, Thomas Leigh Powell, Sir Francis Sharp
Beach, Rt. Hn. Sir M. H. (Bristol Heath, James Pretyman, Ernest George
Bond, Edward Helder, Augustus Purvis, Robert
Brassey, Albert Hozier, Hon. James Henry Cecil Quilter, Sir Cuthbert
Brodrick, Rt. Hon. St. John Hudson, George Bickersteth Rentoul, James Alexander
Bullard, Sir Harry Jessel, Capt. Herbert Merton Ritchie, Rt. Hn. Chas. Thomson
Cavendish, V. C. W. (Derbysh Johnston, William (Belfast) Robertson, Herbert (Hackney)
Cecil, Lord Hugh (Greenwich) Johnstone, Heywood (Sussex) Russell, Gen. F. S. (Cheltenham
Chamberlain, Rt. Hn. J. (Birm. Kenyon, James Russell, T. W. (Tyrone)
Chamberlain, J. Austen (Worc'r Kenyon-Slaney, Col. William Rutherford, John
Chaplin, Rt. Hon. Henry Knowles, Lees Seely, Charles Hilton
Chelsea, Viscount Lawson, John Grant (Yorks.) Sidebothom, J. W. (Cheshire)
Collings, Rt. Hon. Jesse Leigh-Bennett, Henry Currie Smith, James Parker (Lanarks)
Curzon, Viscount Lockwood, Lieut.-Col. A. R. Stewart, Sir Mark J. M'Taggart
Dalrymple, Sir Charles Loder, Gerald Walter Erskine Sturt, Hon. Humphry Napier
Davies, Sir Horatio D. (Chath'm Long, Rt. Hon. W. (Liverpool) Talbot, Rt. Hn. J. G. (Oxf'd Univ
Denny, Colonel Lowe, Francis William Thornton, Percy M.
Douglas, Rt. Hon. A. Akers- Lowles, John Tomlinson, W. E. Murray
Dyke, Rt. Hn. Sir William Hart Loyd, Archie Kirkman Vincent, Sir Edgar (Exeter)
Faber, George Denison Lyttelton, Hon. Alfred Ward, Hon. Robert A. (Crewe)
Fellowes, Hon. Ailwyn Edwd. Macdona, John Cumming Warr, Augustus Frederick
Finch, George H. MacIver, David (Liverpool) Webster, Sir Richard E.
Finlay, Sir Robert Bannatyne M'Calmont, Col. J. (Antrim, E.) Wharton, Rt. Hon. John Lloyd
Firbank, Joseph Thomas M'Iver, Sir L. (Edinburgh, W) Williams, Colonel R. (Dorset)
Forster, Henry William Malcolm, Ian Willox, Sir John Archibald
Foster, Colonel (Lancaster) Maple, Sir John Blundell Wilson, J. W. (Wor'shire, N.)
Fry, Lewis Martin, Richard Biddulph Wortley, Rt. Hon. C. B. Stuart-
Galloway, William Johnson Melville, Beresford Valentine Wylie, Alexander
Gedge, Sydney Middlemore, J. Throgmorton Wyndham, George
Goldsworthy, Major-General More, Robt. Jasper (Shropsh.) Wyvill, Marmaduke D'Arcy
Gordon, Hon. John Edward Morrell, George Herbert
Gorst, Rt. Hn. Sir J. Eldon Mowbray, Sir Robert Gray C. TELLERS FOR THE AYES—
Goulding, Edward Alfred Murray, Rt. Hn. A. G. (Bute) Mr. Anstruther and Mr.
Gray, Ernest (West Ham) Newdigate, Francis Alexander Fisher.
Green, W. D. (Wednesbury) Nicol, Donald Ninian
Burns, John Hammond, John (Carlow) O'Dowd, John
Channing, Francis Allston Hayne, Rt. Hon. Charles Seale- O'Keeffe, Francis Arthur
Corbett, A. Cameron (Glasgow Healy, Maurice (Cork) Power, Patrick Joseph
Crean, Eugene Healy, Timothy M. (N. Louth) Provand, Andrew Dryburgh
Crilly, Daniel Hedderwick, Thomas C. H. Redmond, William (Clare)
Davies, M. Vaughan- (Cardigan Jones, Wm. (Carnarvonshire) Samuel, J. (Stockton-on-Tees)
Dilke, Rt. Hon. Sir Charles Kilbride, Denis Sinclair, Capt. J. (Forfarshire)
Donelan, Captain A. Lawson, Sir Wilfrid (Cumb'l nd Sullivan, Donal (Westmeath)
Doogan, P. C. Lough, Thomas Tanner, Charles Kearns
Duckworth, James Macaleese, Daniel Ure, Alexander
Farrell, Jas. P. (Cavan, W.) MacNeill, John Gordon Swift
Flavin, Michael Joseph M'Ghee, Richard TELLERS FOR THE NOES—
Flynn, James Christopher M'Killop, James Mr. Daly and Mr. Caldwell.
Goddard, Daniel Ford Murnaghan, George

Bill ordered to be brought in by the Lord Advocate and Mr. Anstruther.