SOUTH LANCASHIRE TRAMWAYS BILL (BY ORDER). (Hansard, 2 March 1900)

§ * MR. LOUGH () Islington, W.
As the points I desire to raise can be best considered when the Bill has been read a second time, and when I come to move the Instruction standing in my name, I will not, therefore, move the rejection of the Bill.

§ * MR. LOUGH
said he did not desire to take any objection to the main object of this Bill, but he wanted to secure some improvement in one fundamental clause. The object of the Bill was to promote the construction of no fewer than twenty-eight tramways in South Lancashire, thereby practically joining up the tramway lines between Liverpool and Manchester. He did not object to the scheme, and, indeed, he was in favour of these undertakings, but the clause which it had been the practice to insert in all these Bills since 1869 with regard to cheap fares for the working classes is somewhat altered in this Bill and did not give all the usual facilities. Since 1869, when the clause was originally drafted, the conditions of traction had greatly changed, and he thought that much greater, and not less, facilities might now be given to the labouring classes. The 1869 clause provided that at least two cars should be run daily each way for the benefit of the working classes. This Bill only proposed that one car should be run. What he wanted to secure by his Instruction was that the faults of the clause of 1869 should be put right. One of those faults was that the maximum price charged was 1512 too high. Then there was a limit imposed in the clause that no fare of less than one penny should be allowed. On almost every tramway—especially in London and Glasgow—halfpenny fares were now charged, and if the clause were inserted in its present form it would not only do the working classes no good, but it might prevent the owners of tramways from giving facilities which they might think were desirable. But the greatest objection of all to the clause was that there was no means of enforcing it. For these reasons he moved the Instruction, which, he understood, would be favourably entertained by the promoters of the Bill. He commended it to their consideration, and also to that of the President of the Board of Trade, who had done so much useful work in securing for railway companies improved facilities for working-men's trains. He trusted the Board of Trade would take this opportunity of making representations before the Committee to which the Bill was sent, with a view to the framing of a clause which would secure these much-desired facilities. He begged to move "That it be an Instruction to the Committee to inquire whether it is desirable that penalties should be inserted in Clause 56 of the Bill (Cheap fares for the labouring classes), to secure compliance with the objects of the clause, and whether the clause should be amended in respect of the maximum fare charged, the sufficiency in number, and the hours at which the cars shall be run."

§ * MR. SCHWANN () Manchester, N.
congratulated the promoters of the Bill not opposing this Instruction. The measure certainly did not comply with the demands which for some years past had been successfully made upon tramway undertakings. All were agreed that there should be at least two trams run morning and evening for the benefit of the working classes, in order to enable them to live outside the towns and cities, and away from the contaminations inseparable from town life. This Bill only ottered one! In other Bills before the House that day the promoters had, of their own motion, extended their systems of cheap trams by running them up till 8 a.m. and after 5 p.m., instead of 7 a.m. and 6 p.m. as offered, and he thought similar benefits might be included 1513 in this Bill. It must be remembered that trams possessed a certain amount of monopoly in regard to street traffic, and in return the interests, therefore, of the working classes and the poorer classes of the community should be carefully guarded. He would like to see a reduction of fares to ¼ d. per mile, which he believed would allow an adequate return to the company, but no fare to be less than ½ d.; and he was further desirous that uniform fares should prevail throughout the combined tram systems. He regretted to notice the absence of a penalty clause in regard to these matters. Such a clause, in his opinion, was absolutely necessary, for it would not do to trust entirely to the Christian feelings of shareholders and directors. He was glad to think the President of the Board of Trade sympathised with the endeavour to secure cheap tram fares for working men.
Motion made, and Question proposed, "That it be an Instruction to the Committee to inquire whether it is desirable that penalties should be inserted in Clause 56 of the Bill (Cheap fares for the labouring classes) to secure compliance with the objects of the clause; and whether the clause should be amended in respect of the maximum fare charged, the sufficiency in number, and the hours at which the cars shall be run.—(Mr. Lough.)

§ THE PRESIDENT OF THE BOARD OF TRADE (Mr. RITCHIE,) Croydon
When the hon. Gentleman opposite first put the Instruction down it was in a somewhat different form. It was, in fact, an Instruction to the Committee to insert a particular clause, and I intimated that I could not support it, as I did not think it right for the House to give such an instruction. The Committee ought to have the opportunity of hearing the evidence for and against, and of judging for themselves. But in the form in which it now appears on the Paper I see no difficulty in the matter, and I am glad to hear that the promoters of the Bill also see no objection to it. The Committee will now have complete power to deal with the clause, and to adopt it either as it stands or with such modifications as they may, after hearing evidence, think desirable. There is no doubt that since the model clause was drawn up, thirty years ago, the condition of things has changed very greatly, and much greater 1514 interest is taken in the accommodation for working men going to and from their work. Great strides have been made in this matter in connection with railways, and greater strides will, I hope, be made in the future. It is only right now that the Committee should consider whether the facilities given for this purpose in the model tramway clause are sufficient for the present demands, and if they think, as probably they will, that some modification of the clause is desirable, they will have the opportunity of doing it. Any assistance the Board of Trade can give in reference to this matter would be given, and I hope the result will be satisfactory to those who are desirous of increasing these facilities, and will not be to the injury of the promoters.

§ SIR J. A. WILLOX () Liverpool, Everton
said he desired to explain that, in the particular circumstances of this Bill, the promoters did not think the ordinary scale of charges was altogether applicable, because the lines ran through country districts. However, the promoters had perfect confidence in being able to explain their position before the Committee. While they were willing to give reasonable facilities to the working men, they felt sure that Parliament would not impose upon them any unfair or unreasonable conditions. The system contemplated by the measure was one for connecting a large number of comparatively small towns, with considerable intervals of country between them, and consequently it would be exceedingly inconvenient for the general traffic if, as had been proposed, there should be workmen's trams run morning, noon, and evening, at rates that would be, probably, of an unremunerative nature, under the circumstances. But he would like to point out that the company promoting this measure had been, in his judgment at any rate, exceptionally liberal in dealing with this matter, because they had fixed their maximum fares for all passengers at one penny per mile, while, for the working classes, morning and evening, they undertook to run a tram service at one halfpenny per mile. Then, as regarded the question of penalty, there was a clause in the Bill giving the Board of Trade power to inflict penalties if a reasonable service was not maintained, so that to a certain extent the aims of the advocates of the Instruction were met. The 1515 company hoped to be able to show by evidence before the Committee that the provisions of the Bill were reasonable and adequate. They did not desire to impose any restrictions or interpose difficulties in the way of the working classes having a cheap and ready access between their working places and their dwelling houses. In regard to that matter, the measure had received the support practically of the whole of the local authorities in the districts through which the tramways proposed to run, and he thought they might be sure that those local authorities had looked at the proposals of the Bill with careful attention to the interests of the community. The wish of the promoters of the measure was to afford the most ample facilities for traffic, feeling assured that that was the best way, not only to satisfy the community but to serve their own interests. In that spirit he was authorised to say the promoters of the Bill readily accepted the Instruction, conscious that the decision come to by the Committee would be fair, and equally in the interests of the public and the shareholders of the company.