HC Deb 31 July 1900 vol 87 cc252-5


Order for Second Reading read.

Motion made, and Question proposed, "That the Bill be now read a second time."

MR. T. P. O'CONNOR (Liverpool, Scotland)

I do not know whether the Chief Secretary is prepared to make an announcement which will do away at once with my opposition to this measure, that he will consent to leave out the last sub-section, which proposes to enact the renewal of the Peace Preservation Act. If the right hon. Gentleman is prepared to make that announcement, the Bill, so far as I am concerned, will go through without any further discussion. I assume from the silence of the right hon. Gentleman his refusal to grant that request, and I have nothing to do but to proceed with my opposition to this Bill. This is a measure for the purpose of continuing laws which were enacted for a certain limited period of time, and which will expire if this Bill be not passed into law. I understand that the principle of this Expiring Laws Continuance Bill is that it simply provides for the prolongation of measures of a more or less non-contentious and what is called practical character, and that it is not a measure to be used for the purpose of continuing practically without discussion any measures which are of a strongly contentious and highly important character. I therefore hold, or at least I would strongly urge, that the Government are departing from the natural and real character of this particular measure by introducing into it the continuation of the Peace Preservation Acts of 1881 and 1886. Everybody knows—I do not enlarge on the point—that those Acts deal with what are the fundamental liberties of the subject of this realm, because, after all, the right to bear arms——


The hon. Member is aware that it is not in order to discuss any particular Bill contained in the schedule on the Second Reading. That must be done on a motion to strike such Bill out of the schedule when the Bill is in Committee. Otherwise there might be forty or fifty discussions on as many Bills on the motion for the Second Reading.


I meant to address myself simply in general terms to the character of one of the measures, without going into details. Of course, I

quite appreciate that it would be entirely out of order to discuss the details, but I think I would be in order in referring in general terms to the character of some of the measures included in this Bill, and contending that these measures are not of the class which should be dealt with in this particular form. It was to that point, and that point only, that I meant to limit my observations; but, perhaps, my remarks led you to the conclusion that I was going to enter into the merits or details of a particular measure. I have no such intention. I simply wish to describe in general terms measures of a character which ought not to be in a Bill of this kind.


The hon. Member is proposing to discuss a measure on the ground that it ought not to be in the schedule. I am afraid the hon. Member would not be in order in taking that course.


That is your ruling, and, of course, I submit. I must at present confine myself to the general observation that I think the Government are treating the people of Ireland rather shabbily in trying to push a Bill of this kind in this particular form. I beg to give notice that I shall discuss the character of the Bill and move an Amendment with respect to this particular measure when we reach the Committee stage.

MR. TULLY (Leitrim, S.)

supported his hon. friend in objecting to the unfair and exceptional treatment of Ireland by this measure. It was proposed to re-enact expiring laws with regard to Ireland, which would not be tolerated for a single moment with regard to England and Scotland. He would, when the right time came, support his hon. friend in asking the House to strike out the Peace Preservation (Ireland) Acts from the list of measures proposed to be continued.

Question put.

The House divided:—Ayes, 125:. Noes, 31. (Division List No. 251.)

Anson, Sir William Reynell Atkinson, Rt. Hon. John Balfour, Rt Hn Gerald W (Leeds
Asher, Alexander Balcarres, Lord Beckett, Ernest William
Ashmead-Bartlett, Sir Ellis Balfour, Rt. Hn. A. J. (Manch'r) Bigwood, James
Blundell, Colonel Henry Greville, Hon. Ronald Purvis, Robert
Bowles, T. Gibson (King's Lynn Griffith, Ellis J. Remnant, James Farquharson
Brassey, Albert Hamilton, Rt Hon. Lord George Rentoul, James Alexander
Bullard, Sir Harry Hanbury, Rt. Hon. Robert Wm. Richards, Henry Charles
Butcher, John George Haslett, Sir James Horner Richardson, Sir Thos.(Hartlep')
Caldwell, James Hayne, Rt. Hon. Charles Seale Ridley, Rt. Hon. Sir Matthew W
Carson, Rt. Hn Sir Edw. H. Hazell, Walter Ritchie, Rt Hon. Chas Thomson
Causton, Richard Knight Hoare, Sir Samuel (Norwich) Robertson, Herbert (Hackney)
Cavendish, V.C.W. (Derbysh.) Hutton, John (Yorks, N.R.) Round, James
Cecil, Lord Hugh (Greenwich) Jones, Wm (Carnarvonshire) Russell, T. W. (Tyrone)
Chamberlain, Rt. Hn. J. (Birm.) Lawrence, Sir E Durning-(Corn Sidebottom, William (Derbysh.
Chamberlain, J. Austen (Worc'r Lawrence, Wm. P. (Liverpool) Sinclair, Louis (Romford)
Chaplin, Rt. Hon. Henry Leigh-Bennett, Henry Currie Skewes, Cox, Thomas
Coghill, Douglas Harry Llewellyn, Evan H. (Somerset) Smith, James Parker(Lanarks.
Collings, Rt. Hon. Jesse Lonsdale, John Brownlee Smith, Hon. W. F. D. (Strand)
Colomb, Sir John Charles Ready Lopes, Henry Yarde Buller Stephens, Henry Charles
Colville, John Loyd, Archie Kirkman Strachey, Edward
Cook, Fred. Lucas (Lambeth) Lucas-Shad well, William Strauss, Arthur
Cross, Herb. Shepherd (Bolton Lyttelton, Hon. Alfred Strutt, Hon. Charles Hedley
Curzon, Viscount Macdona, John Cumming Talbot, Rt. Hn. J.G (Oxf'd Univ.
Davies, Sir HoratioD(Chatham MacIver, David (Liverpool) Thomas, David A. (Merthyr)
Douglas, Ht. Hon. A. Akers- M'Arthur, Charles (Liverpool) Thornton, Percy M.
Fellowes, Hn. Ailwyn Edward M'Kenna, Reginald Tollemache, Henry James
Fergusson, Rt. H n. Sir J. (Man'r M'Killop, James Tomlinson, Wm. Edw. Murray
Finch, George H. Marks, Henry Hananel Walton, John Lawson(Leeds, S.
Finlay, Sir Robert Bannatyne Martin, Richard Biddulph Warr, Augustus Frederick
Fisher, William Hayes Mellor, Colonel (Lancashire) Welby, Lt.-Col. A. C E(Taunt'n
FitzGerald, Sir Robert Penrose- Mendl, Sigismund Ferdinand Wharton, Rt. Hon. JohnLloyd
Flower, Ernest Monckton, Edward Philip Willoughby de Eresby, Lord
Fowler, Rt. Hon. Sir Henry More, Robt. Jasper (Shropshire) Willox, Sir John Archibald
Gedge, Sydney Morton, ArthurH. A(Deptford) Wrightson, Sir Thomas
Gibbons, J. Lloyd Muntz, Philip A. Wylie, Alexander
Gibbs, Hn. AGH (City of Lond.) Murray, Rt HnA. Graham(Bute Wyndham, George
Giles, Charles Tyrrell Murray, Charles J. (Coventry) Wyvill, Marmaduke D'Arcy
Gladstone, Rt. Hn Herbert John Murray, Col. Wyndham(Bath) Young, Commander(Berks, E.)
Godson, Sir Augustus Frederick Nicol, Donald Ninian Yoxall, James Henry
Gorst, Rt. Hon. Sir John Eldon O'Neill, Hon. Robert Torrens
Goschen, George J. (Sussex) Parkes, Ehenezer TELLERS FOR THE AYES—
Gray, Ernest (West Ham) Pease, Herbert Pike(Darlingt'n Sir William Walrond and Mr. Anstruther.
Greene, Henry D. (Shrewsbury) Phillpotts, Captain Arthur
Abraham, William(Cork, N. E. Emmott, Alfred Provand, Andrew Dryburgh
Atherley-Jones, L. Ferguson, R. C. Munro (Leith Roberts, John Bryn (Eifion)
Austin, M. (Limerick, W.) Healy, Maurice (Cork) Runciman, Walter
Billson, Alfred Horniman, Frederick John Samuel, J. (Stockton-on-Tees)
Bolton, Thomas Dolling Macaleese, Daniel Sinclair, Capt John(Forfarshire
Brigg, John MacDonnell, Dr M A (Queen'sC Sullivan, Donal (Westmeath)
Cawley, Frederick M'Hugh, Patrick A. (Leitrim) Tanner, Charles Kearns
Channing, Francis Allston Moss, Samuel Tully, Jasper
Crilly, Daniel O'Connor, James(Wicklow, W. Woods, Samuel
Dewar, Arthur O'Connor, T. P. (Liverpool)
Doogan, P. C. O'Dowd, John TELLERS FOR THE NOES—
Douglas, Charles M. (Lanark) O'Malley, William Captain Donelan and Mr. Patrick O'Brien.
Duckworth, James Power, Patrick Joseph

Bill read a second time, and committed for To-morrow.