GAS ORDER CONFIRMATION (No. 2) BILL [Lords] (BY ORDER.) (Hansard, 17 July 1900)

§ * THE SECRETARY TO THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT BOARD (Mr. T. W. RUSSELL,) Tyrone, S.
It will be in the recollection of the House—

§ * MR. SPEAKER
Order, order! The hon. Gentleman has already spoken on this motion, and he can now only do so by the indulgence of the House.

§ * MR. T. W. RUSSELL
I am pleading for that indulgence. When this matter was before the House a fortnight ago I suggested an adjournment, in order that negotiations might go forward for the purchase of the gas company's undertaking, and I wish now to state that, although originally the local authority offered £7,000 and the company asked for £9,000, that during the interval the council have raised their offer to £8,000 and the company have reduced their demand to £8,500, so that now there is only a difference of £500 between the parties. Although I have worked very hard, I have failed to get rid of that difference, and the Order must, therefore, now be either approved or rejected by the House. I should like to say that the Order is a very serious matter for the town, because it fixes the capital of the company at £9,000, the maximum price to be charged at 5s. l0d. per 1,000 feet, and the maximum dividend at 10 per cent. So far as I am personally concerned I intend to vote against the Second Reading of the Bill, because it will put the town in such a bad position. I think the municipality is entitled to some consideration at the hands of this House, and as this is not a Government matter, and as Irish representatives, north and south, are unanimous on the point, I shall vote against the confirmation of the Order.

§ MR. DILLON (Mayo, E.)
I only wish to say a few words. The case is an exceedingly hard one for the citizens of Dungannon. They have been charged for many years a price for gas which is considerably above that charged in other towns in Ireland or even in Great Britain. This Provisional Order proposes to maintain the enormous maximum price of 5s. 10d., whereas in neighbouring places it varies from 3s. 6d. to 4s., and that is done solely for the purpose of ensuring the payment of the maximum dividend of 10 per cent. on an inflated capital. In the last debate it was clearly shown that the actual 213 cash expenditure from the pockets of the shareholders had been only £4,200, the remainder of the money expended on the works having been taken out of the profits in excess of the 10 per cent. That has been done by charging an enormous price for gas, and the ratepayers of Dungannon are now asked to give the company twice as much as they have had to find out of their own pockets. In the future if this Order is confirmed they will continue to pay 5s. l0d. per 1,000 feet in order that the shareholders may get 10 per cent. on their inflated capital. I hope, therefore, the motion for Second Reading will be rejected.

§ MR. SAMUEL YOUNG (Cavan, E.)
Rather than reject the Bill to-day, why not pass the Second Reading, let the negotiations be continued, and then if no agreement is arrived at settle the contentious point on the motion for Third Reading?

§ * MR. T. W. RUSSELL
I cannot consent to that. The end of the session is so near that there would not be sufficient time to discuss the matter, should it on the Third Reading be found necessary to recommit the Bill. No one can be prejudiced if the Order is now thrown out. The whole matter can come up again next session.

§ THE UNDER SECRETARY OF STATE FOR THE HOME DEPARTMENT (Mr. JESSE COLLINGS,) Birmingham, Bordesley
In the absence of the President of the Board of Trade I was requested to move the Second Reading of this Bill. Of course it is not a Government matter in any way, but I think it right that the House should know the reasons why the Board of Trade granted this Provisional Order. The points which have been raised could be easily settled by the Committee upstairs.

§ * MR. T. W. RUSSELL
No, it goes before the Unopposed Bills Committee.

§ MR. JESSE COLLINGS
That difficulty could easily be got over by suspension of Standing Orders, and then the local authorities of Dungannon could have a full and fair hearing. This company has for many years been supplying gas in Duncannon without any statutory powers whatever. It had, therefore, no power 214 to break up the streets without the consent of the local authority. The Board of Trade sent down a Special Commissioner to inquire whether there were good grounds for the Order, and he reported in favour of it. Seeing that the parties have so nearly come to an agreement as to the terms of purchase, surely it would be well to let the matter be threshed out by a Committee upstairs. If the Order is thrown out, matters, as far as the supply of gas is concerned, will be at a deadlock.

§ * MR. T. W. RUSSELL
No, no!

§ MR. DILLON
The company and the town will be left in exactly the position they have occupied for the last ten years.

§ MR. JESSE COLLINGS
In case of accident they will be unable to touch a main or pipe, unless the local authority consents. There has been no friction for the last ten years; the company and the local authority have been able to work together. But will they be able to do so in the future? I think it will be better for both the local authority and the Council that this Order should be sent to a Committee upstairs, for that is the only tribunal which can properly settle the points in dispute.

§ THE SECRETARY TO THE ADMIRALTY (Mr. MACARTNEY, Antrim, S.)
I propose to vote against this Order. The arguments of the right hon. Gentleman have made no impression on me. No one will be damnified if the Order is lost, for matters will remain in precisely the same position as prior to its introduction, while between now and next year there will be ample opportunity for settling the question in dispute as to the value of the undertaking. I hope, therefore, the House will reject the Order.