§ Considered in Committee.
§ (In the Committee.)
§ [Mr. J. W. LOWTHER (Cumberland, Penrith) in the Chair.]
§ Motion made, and Question proposed, "That towards making good the Supply granted to Her Majesty for the service of the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1900, the sum of £13,000,000 be granted out of the Consolidated Fund of the United Kingdom."—(Mr. Chancellor of the Exchequer.)
§ MR. JOHN REDMOND () Waterford
I beg to move that you do report progress, and ask leave to sit again. My object in moving this motion is this. The discussion on the granting of this £13,000,000 commenced this evening. It is quite true, as was pointed out at question time by the Leader of the House, that the general question of the policy underlying the Vote has been under discussion for some days, but the actual voting of the money came under the consideration of the House only this evening. There were a number of Amendments on the Paper dealing with various of the items making up the £13,000,000. None of those Amendments were reached. One hon. Member who had charge of one of these Amendments rose repeatedly in his place during the evening, but was not fortunate enough to catch your eye. Under these circumstances, a very strong opinion is entertained by a large section in this House that an adequate opportunity was not given for testing the opinion of the Committee on these proposed reductions. That being so, a strong feeling having been raised on this matter by what has occurred, I think it will probably facilitate rather than interfere with the progress of public business if progress is 316 now reported and the Committee not asked to take any further step to-night-I do not at all desire to add to the heat of what has taken place, but I very strongly feel that when deep opinions are entertained on these Votes by a large section of the House, adequate opportunity ought to be given to those Members to test the value of their opinion in the division lobby. Under these circumstances I would ask the Leader of the House not to proceed further to-night, but to be content with having obtained by the use of the closure after a few hours' discussion this enormous vote of £13,000,000, and not to press us to grant the Report stage to-night. I beg to move that you do report progress, and ask leave to sit again.
§ Motion made, and Question proposed, "That the Chairman do report progress, and ask leave to sit again."—(Mr. John Redmond.)
§ MR. A. J. BALFOUR
The hon. Gentleman's speeches, whatever may be said of their substance, are always conciliatory in manner, and I certainly do not wish to add to the heat which he deprecates. I think, however, he is under some misapprehension as to the exact business before us. He spoke of taking the Report stage of the Vote. We are not on the Report stage; what we are on is a purely technical matter which, as far as my experience of the House is concerned, has always gone through without discussion or debate. The hon. Member has told us that an inadequate opportunity has been given for the discussion of these proposals, the importance of which we would be the last to minimise. I would point out to him that a Vote for men and a Vote for money by long custom and general consent have been regarded as forming one discussion, in the course of which hon. Members might express their opinions. The broader aspects of the question were discussed for four nights in this House. We then came to the details, and if hon.
317 Members wished to discuss details or; move reductions of separate items of the Vote, it was within their power to begin that operation at half-past four this afternoon.
§ MR. A. J. BALFOUR
It may have been five o'clock. Hon. Members knew perfectly well that in order to keep the law it was necessary that we should get the Committee stage to-night. There was therefore no surprise, and every hon. Gentleman had present in his mind the exact Parliamentary situation in which we are placed. Nevertheless, with that Parliamentary situation well before their minds, speech after speech was made from those benches—
§ MR. A. J. BALFOUR
I do not say exclusively from those benches, but from those benches speech after speech was made, but no reduction was moved. The hon. Gentleman upon whom I had the misfortune to move the closure about 'half an hour ago told the House before he sat down that he had intended to move a reduction of the last item of the Vote. If he had done that he would have cut out all those Amendments which we are now told it is absolutely vital in the interests of Parliamentary discussion we should deal with. I think the hon. Gentleman who has just spoken, on an impartial review of the situation, will feel that we have been most anxious to give him and his friends and the House a full opportunity of discussing these matters.
§ MR. A. J. BALFOUR
When the hon. Gentleman intervened I was pointing out to the Committee that we had endeavoured as far as we could to give the amplest opportunity for the discussion of those Votes for men and money. So anxious have I been, so anxious I am, to give this opportunity, that, instead of carrying on the ordinary practice not only of this (Government, but of all Governments, of 318 taking first on Monday some other business, and taking the Report stage of these Votes after 12 o'clock as we are entitled to do, my desire is to have these two Votes first on Monday, so as to give, if possible, even greater opportunities for the discussion of these matters. As regards the particular subject now before the Committee, may I repeat what I said at the beginning, that it is purely a formal stage, and so far as my experience of the House is concerned has never led to substantial debate.
§ MR. WILLIAM REDMOND
I only desire to point out the position in which I find myself with regard to the Amendments of which I had given notice. The First Lord of the Treasury has said perfectly truly that the principle underlying these Votes has been under discussion for some time. But it is equally true that not until this evening have we had an opportunity of moving a reduction of any of the items which go to make up the whole. Three or four days ago I put on the Paper, and it is on the Paper to day, notice of an Amendment on Item 1, and also on the whole Vote. I have had absolutely no opportunity of moving those reductions until to-day. The right hon. Gentleman says that ample opportunity was given this afternoon. I can only say that I have attended the House regularly since question time, and then the debate was carried on by the Leader of the Opposition, the Leader of the House himself, and various English Members. Afterwards some Irish Members spoke. I rose more than once for the purpose of moving the Amendment of which I had given notice, but when half-past ten arrived, instead of having an opportunity of doing so in the hour and a half which remained of the sitting, the closure was moved. Whatever may be said of the policy of the right hon. Gentleman in moving the closure on this Vote if he thought fit when twelve o'clock was approaching, I say, to say the least of it, it was extremely hard that when an hour and a half still remained—
* THE CHAIRMAN
Order, order! No discussion can be permitted upon a decision of the House with regard to the closure.
§ MR. WILLIAM REDMOND
I think in this matter I have something to say 319 which would commend itself to the First Lord of the Treasury. He will understand that it is rather hard that, having given notice on the Paper, with one hour and a half of the sitting remaining, an opportunity should not he given to me to move this reduction and take a division upon it. That is my position, and I think that I have something to complain of.
§ MR. A. J. BALFOUR
I am reluctant to remain seated under the imputation of the hon. Gentleman. Let me point put to him three facts which he appears to have forgotten. In the first place, if he was not called upon, any hon. Member among his friends could have moved his Amendment and he could have spoken upon it. The second fact which I would call his attention to is this: that it was very important from the point of view of the regularity of our proceedings that we should get through the Ways and Means business in which we arc engaged, because it could not have been taken after twelve o'clock, so that if the discussion had gone on as hon. Gentlemen desire it should have gone on, until twelve o'clock, we could not have carried out that stage of our proceedings. The third fact which I would call to the hon. Member's notice is that I have already promised the Committee to take the Report of these two Votes on Monday the first thing, and it rests with the hon. Gentleman himself so to distribute the time on Monday that any Amendment he might desire to move could be easily dealt with then.
§ MR. JOHN REDMOND
I desire to add one word. The right hon. Gentleman's position is this: He says he must get the Ways and Means business through to-night. But why one and a half hours before twelve does he move the closure? I am sorry that the right hon. Gentleman has brought this trouble on himself, for he would have lost nothing, the House would have lost nothing, and the Government would have lost nothing by allowing the debate to go on one hour or so longer. In the most provocative and unnecessary way, according to his own statement, the right hon. Gentleman interfered with this motion by closuring the debate an hour before it was necessary. By so doing he has closed the mouths of certain Members of this House in this quarter. It is said that some Irish Members have spoken in this debate, but I venture to 320 say that the number who spoke was very few indeed, and opportunities of moving the Amendments of which they had given notice were not given to them because the right hon. Gentleman has moved the closure an hour and a-half before it was necessary. [An HON. MEMBER: No, no!] Well, I will say an hour earlier than was necessary. By doing that he has brought this trouble upon himself, and I think Irishmen are bound to enter their protest against what they regard as a highhanded measure to stifle discussion upon a money Vote, the object of which they regard as iniquitous. Whatever opportunity is given to us under the rules of the House we shall certainly avail ourselves of it to mark our intense indignation at our mouths being closed, and at this enormous Vote of £13,000,000 being rushed through this Parliament with indecent haste.
§ MR. DALZIEL (Kirkealdy)
Whatever our opinion may be on this Vote, I do not think it can be said that the right hon. Gentleman has taken up a very conciliatory attitude upon this matter. The responsibility for this war rests with the Government, and they must see this thing through, and any position they take up must, of course, have considerable weight with the Members of this House. What is the reply the right hon. Gentleman makes? Here we have a Vote for £13,000,000, I for the purposes of the present war. In connection with that war the Colonial Secretary admits that the Government have made mistakes. From his place in the House the right hon. Gentleman says they have made mistakes, and the only possible opportunity of discussing the direction in which they have made them is on the discussion of this Vote. The right hon. Gentleman, in reply, says we have had a general discussion, but a general discussion does not at all meet the criticism which is to be offered. The right hon. Gentleman's reply is a novel proposal so far as this House is concerned. He asks why my hon. friend did not arrange with some other hon. Member who was fortunate enough to catch the Chairman's eye to move his Amendment. If we are going to reduce discussion in the House of Commons to a position of that kind we had better have no discussion at all. The Government had better say, "We have a majority of 200; we are sorry you do not agree with us." What does the Leader of the House 321 say? He simply replies that they have to get this money to-night. If the Government come before the House of Commons and say they have to got this money to-night, they ought to be able to give us some foundation for such a proposal. Here we have the Government coming down and asking for £13,000,000, admitting that they have made mistakes, and then moving the closure to carry the Vote through. The right hon. Gentleman says they are bound by law to have it carried through to-night. If he says the I necessity of the law demands it of course the House of Commons will attach a great deal of importance to that statement, but: why is it that we cannot have to-night i the reasons why the law makes this necessary? Why cannot the right hon. Gentleman tell us the exact Act of Parliament that makes it necessary? Here we have the Leader of the House telling us that the law makes it necessary that this money should be granted to-night, and yet lie cannot get up and tell us the Act of Parliament that makes it necessary. If the Government come down to the House and make a demand like this upon our patience and consideration, surely it is not too much to ask for their authority. [Cries of "Divide, divide!"] I cannot quite understand why hon. Members are so anxious to divide. Not one single Member on the front bench opposite can tell us what Act of Parliament makes it necessary that this Vote should be passed to-night. I think that is a most unfortunate and extraordinary position so far as the Committee is concerned, and before they make that statement they ought to give us the information we desire. Apart from the policy of the Government, I think there is a strong feeling in the House with regard to the action of the Government in this matter, because of all people in the world the Government ought not to suppress discussion upon this subject. There has been too much suppression already, and the Government ought to allow the fullest opportunity for discussion. Unless there are some absolute reasons in law why this money should be passed to-night, I think my hon. friend's resolution ought to be supported.
§ * MR. CALDWELL () Lanarkshire, Mid
I think the First Lord of the Treasury ought not to have moved the closure at the particular time he did. I must say that during this evening, and 322 the last time this matter was discussed, the impression in my mind was that the Government were not serious in pressing forward the business of the country, and when the right hon. Gentleman knew that the closure would have to be moved to-night, and that there were amendments down on the Paper, what was the necessity of hon. Members on the Government side of the House monopolising so much of the debate as they did this evening, and why did they not leave the discussion in the hands of the Irish Opposition. The debate was carried on simply between the supporters of the Government on the one hand and the Irish Members on the other, and I meant to rise at seven o'clock this evening to make an appeal to the First Lord of the Treasury to restrain Members on his own side of the House from speaking. We know why the closure was moved at half-past ten o'clock. Hon. Members opposite hurried back from their dinner, and the discussion was kept going in the interval by their friends in order that they might have time to return and vote in the division. Throughout this session I have not spoken at all on matters connected with the war: and I think the Government are very much to blame for the way in which they have allowed hon. Members on their own side practically to convey the impression that the discussion on this subject was being prolonged so as to provide an excuse for the Government appropriating next Tuesday. If the Government had followed their own precedents they would have found means to bring the debate to a close long before this.
§ MR. SWIFT MACNEILL
I have not spoken in any of these debates this session during the war. I have, however, a matter of great importance which I wish to bring forward to-night. I am speaking now without the slightest heat or passion. I might say, without fear of contradiction, that on this side not half an hour more of time has been occupied than on the Government side. Though we differ from the First Lord very materially, he has always been able to sympathise with us and look at things from our point of view. If the discussion is closed to the Irish Members they must consider how far their attendance at this Parliament is only a farce. We are not permitted now to speak in this Parliament, and the question is for our constituencies to con- 323 sider whether we are to stay here when representation has become such a perfect farce. The right hon. Gentleman came down and stated that it was necessary to go into Committee of Ways and Means owing to some statutory provision. What is that statutory provision? What is the use of telling us about the laws of the Medes and the Persians, and then not telling us the statutes? You, Mr. Lowther, have ruled that the matter of the closure is not a subject for discussion, and to that ruling I deferentially bow. It is quite true, Mr. Lowther, that your discretion cannot be a subject of discussion.
* THE CHAIRMAN
It is not my discretion, for it is a vote of the House. The House has come to a decision on that point, and it is not competent for me to allow discussion upon it.
§ MR. SWIFT MACNEILL
What I am alluding to is your discretion in putting it. I think I am perfectly justified, subject to your discretion, in commenting on the action of the First Lord in moving the closure.
§ MR. SWIFT MACNEILL
Very well then, I will comment upon it outside. [Ministerial laughter.] I again assure hon. Members opposite that I am not speaking in the slightest degree with anything like heat. [Ministerial laughter.] I hope hon. Gentlemen opposite will take my word for that. I think my word is quite as good as that of any Gentleman on the other side, and I am not speaking with anything like heat. I will say once for all—and I hope my right hon. friend will consider the matter—that we shall have to consider our position here, and whether this House is a fit place for an Irish Member to sit in.
§ MR. D. A. THOMAS () Merthyr Tydvil
The right hon. Gentleman has given us a pledge that he will give us a day for the discussion of this question. When he gives such a pledge we recognise and believe that he will do everything he can to carry it out. I am sure that hon. Members of this House will regard any burking of my hon. friend's motion as a reluctance on the part of the 324 Government to discuss the question fully and freely, and such action will tend to show that certain suspicions which have been raised are well founded.
§ * MR. FLAVIN
The Irish Members are most anxious to make a protest against the way in which the expression of their opinions has been stifled to-night. I would draw attention to the fact that most of the speeches have not been delivered from the Irish benches, although two Irish Members had notices of motion on the Notice Paper to reduce the Vote now before the House. The hon. Member for East Clare has two notices down, and I happen to have three Amendments down. Both of us have been precluded—I might say we have been boycotted—from expressing our opinions on the justice or otherwise of voting £13,000.000 to be spent on what we consider is an unjust war. I might also draw the First Lord's attention to the fact that on the principal sums that compose this £13,000,000—[Ministerial cries of "Order, order!] Any hon. Gentleman who wants to call me to order can come across the floor of the House and try his hand. I believe I am speaking correctly, and it is within the knowledge of the House that on two of these Votes, amounting to £8,000,000, not a single expression of opinion has come from the Irish benches. I had an opportunity of speaking last night for about ten minutes on the £13,000,000, which we take a greater interest in than we took in 125,000 men. I feel, as one who had three notices down on the Paper without having been given an opportunity of moving any of them, that this is a harsh and cruel attempt to stifle public-opinion on this question.
§ * MR. TULLY
I want to discuss Vote 9, and I take rather a different view to some of my hon. friends behind me. They were objecting to the number of men and the amount of money that is being voted for this war, but my objection is on a different point. I think some opportunity should have been allowed to hon. Members on this side to discuss the question of the bad armaments, and I was endeavouring to do that when I was ruled out on a point of order. I think if the Liberal opposition were attending to their business they would have been in their places, and would have raised the 325 question of the inferior guns, rifles, and powder sent out to South Africa.
* THE CHAIRMAN
I must point out to the hon. Member that he cannot discuss these matters upon a motion for the adjournment of the Committee of Ways and Means.
§ * MR. TULLY
Then I shall support the motion of my hon. and learned friend behind me to report progress. I think the Leader of the House, when he came down here and told us that this business would have to be taken because it was in accordance with the law, should have given us the law and stated the section of the statute. I shall support my hon. and learned friend's motion to report progress.
§ MR. CREAN () Queen's Co., Ossory
It was my intention to put a question to the front bench in connection with this very matter. I intend to occupy a very short period of the time of this House in discussing these matters. I was deeply interested myself in connection with the removal of the Militia from the city of Cork.
That question cannot be introduced upon the motion now before the Committee. The question is that I report progress.
§ MR. CREAN
That is the motion I am supporting, and I was going to speak on it. My reason is that we had no opportunity of speaking on the motion to enable us to deal with such a question as I have foreshadowed, and that is the very reason why we are protesting against the conduct of the First Lord of the Treasury in attempting to closure the debate. It is neither reasonable nor honest to do such a thing. [Ministerial cries of "Order, order!"] I am in perfect order. It would be far more decent of the First Lord to tell us that we have no voice in this matter, and we have only got to "pay, pay, pay." You do not want Irish Members, but you want Irish money to pay for the soldiers, and you want Irish soldiers to win your British battles. [Ministerial cheers.] Yes, and what is more you want Irish generals to lead them. You think Irish Members who represent the people of Ireland ought to be closured in this House, and not be 326 allowed to speak on any matter. When the First Lord of the Treasury has fired off his speech he retires, and we do not see him again until he comes back to move the closure. We should be neglecting our duty to our constituencies if we voted more than our legal proportion to the war funds without protesting by every means in our power. I think we are perfectly justified in criticising the conduct of the First Lord of the Treasury or anyone else who obstructs the fair discussion of such a matter. Not a single one of the Amendments put down has been moved, and the Members who gave notice of them are not to be blamed for it. One after another they rose in their places to move these reductions, and time after time they wore ignored. I do not blame you, Mr. Lowther, for doing this. You might not be able to distinguish when you see hon. Gentlemen rise as to whether they are going to move reductions or speak on the general question; therefore it is very hard to blame you for this. But we should not lie honest if we did not state what we believe is the fact, that you took this notice for the closure unfairly—
* THE CHAIRMAN
That is not a proper imputation for the hon. Member to make. The question is that I report progress.
§ MR. CREAN
Then give me an opportunity to withdraw that expression. I beg to withdraw it. We would have disposed of the Vote in less time than it has taken us to make this protest, and there would be none of this indignation exhibited on these benches. We were prepared to discuss the Vote honestly and without prejudice—because we are capable of discussing it without prejudice, although we are being unfairly mulcted—and if we could not induce you to reduce it we would have at all events the satisfaction of showing that we were watching the interests of our constituents and doing our best to put down extravagant expenditure on a war which ought never to have been entered on.
MR. PATRICK O'BRIEN
I have a notice on the Paper to move a reduction of this Vote, and on the two occasions on which I have spoken I have indicated that if I did not get a satisfactory answer it 327 would be my duty to move that reduction, but that if the answer were satisfactory I had no desire to put the Committee to the inconvenience of a division. The answer was not satisfactory, and I then indicated that I would move the reduction of the Vote later as a protest against the way in which I and other hon. Members have been treated at question time in this House, and also against the desire which I thought I discovered on the part of the Department to withhold information. Therefore I think the action of the First Lord of the Treasury is not one upon which he can congratulate himself. My experience is that he always endeavours to throw oil on troubled waters in this House, but I cannot think that he made good use of his power to-night. We are not at all afraid of criticism of our conduct. We are sent here to protest against the war in a perfectly constitutional way, and we ought to be allowed to do it. We are the only representatives from Ireland who are expected to speak on this question. Hon. Gentlemen opposite, notably the hon. and gallant Gentleman for North Armagh—
* THE CHAIRMAN
This has nothing to do with the question before the Committee. The hon. Gentleman must confine himself to giving reasons for the adjournment.
MR. PATRICK O'BRIEN
My reason why we ought to adjourn now is that there is no urgency in the matter at all. The Government have plenty of power to get money, and there is no disposition to withhold it from them. We could not do it if we would, but we certainly think that every opportunity should be given to us to say what we have been sent here to say. Hon. Gentlemen have looked glum enough since the session opened—
* THE CHAIRMAN
I must call the attention of the Committee to the irrelevance of the hon. Member, and request him to confine his remarks strictly to the motion before the Committee.
MR. PATRICK O'BRIEN
I will confine myself strictly to the motion that we ought to adjourn now. The First Lord of the Treasury has had his dash out, though I think he must feel sorry already for it, and I hope that even now he will 328 do a graceful act—as I know he is capable of doing—and accept the motion that progress be reported.
§ MR. MADDISON () Sheffield, Brightside
As an English Member, and one who is not opposed to supplies being granted to the Government, I would wish to give reasons why I feel compelled to vote with the hon. and learned Member for Waterford. Some of us feel that this Vote is so mixed up between temporary and permanent purposes—
* THE CHAIRMAN
I must remind the hon. Member that the original question before the Committee is the resolution in Ways and Means. The Committee having agreed to vote thirteen millions for certain services, the only question remaining is that that sum be paid out of the Consolidated Fund. There is a motion to report progress on that, and that is the only matter that can now be discussed.
§ MR. MADDISON
I was not going to argue the point at all. I was merely going to show why I join in the desire to get certain information from the First Lord of the Treasury. I was only about to say that while I could not vote against the whole Vote there were items in it which presented features to which I was opposed. I quite understand your ruling, Sir, that I cannot discuss what the Committee has already decided, and if the matter remained there I should be compelled to vote against the hon. and learned Member for Waterford. But the First Lord of the Treasury has been asked in, I think, a very proper manner and in a good spirit what is the actual law which compels the Government to force this Vote through to-night. Surely if the right hon. Gentleman wishes to save the time of the Committee, and really has this information, he would accomplish his purpose by giving it to us. If he gives us that information then I cannot vote with the hon. and learned Member for Waterford. If he has that information it would suggest itself to one's mind that he would at once give it, he might indeed have anticipated a demand which he, as an old and illustrious Parliamentary hand, must have known would be made under the circumstances. We are suffering under a disadvantage, and the right hon. Gentleman might at 329 least give us the compensation of proving to us that he has no option in the matter, and that the Vote must be taken to-night. If he does not give us his authority I will vote with the hon. and learned Member for Waterford.
§ * THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUES (Sir M. HICKS BEACH,) Bristol, W.
Perhaps the Committee will pardon me if I explain the position in a very few sentences. In the first place, the War Office is called upon, as the Committee arc aware, to make certain heavy payments in consequence of the expenditure in behalf of the war beyond the amount authorised by Parliament in previous Votes of Supply. To-night the War Office has obtained in Supply authority to make those payments, but it cannot make them unless it is supplied with the means, and the means by which it can be supplied is by the Exchequer issuing money. Under the Exchequer and Audit Act, 1866, the Exchequer cannot issue money except under the authority of Parliament. What is essential is, that as soon as the Vote of Supply is obtained there shall be the authority of Parliament for the Exchequer to issue the money. That is all we are asking.
§ MR. MADDISON
May I ask whether the right hon. Gentleman contends that there is a legal necessity to do that tonight? Would he give us the statute?
§ * SIR M. HICKS BEACH
The Exchequer is generally supposed to be very anxious to keep its money, and it cannot issue money without the authority of Parliament.
§ MR. JOHN REDMOND
The right hon. Gentleman has not told us anything that we did not know, and that the veriest tyro in Parliamentary procedure does not know. We all know that authority must be obtained by resolution such as that now before the Committee. Will the right hon. Gentleman say whether there is any legal necessity compelling this Vote to be passed to-night?
§ MR. JOHN REDMOND
I submit that that is not quite a candid answer. Of course you want the money as soon as ever you can get it: but the case submitted was that, according to law, you were bound to get it before a certain date, and you gave the Committee to understand you were bound to get it tonight. There is no such legal obligation. So far as the strict letter of the law is concerned it would suit you just as well to get this money on Monday or Tuesday. Under the circumstances I think there is an additional argument against rushing this Vote through to-night, and there is strong reason why the independent members of the Committee should insist on having it postponed. If the Chancellor f the Exchequer were able to show by Act of Parliament that the money must be got to-night I would have nothing more to say, but I hope that under the circumstances the independent Members will assist in preventing this Vote being obtained to-night.
§ * MR. CALDWELL
What the Chancellor of the Exchequer has said is perfectly true, but it does not meet the question. The right hon. Gentleman knows very well that there is no need whatever why the resolution should be passed to-night. I challenge any hon. Member to point to any Act of Parliament which provides that on this 16th of February you must have the Committee stage of Ways and Means. If Parliament had met a little later the date would be postponed, and it is all mere affectation; for the Government to appear to be so anxious to keep the law when all Governments notoriously evade and set it aside whenever it suits them.
§ * MR. WEIR
I will support the motion before the Committee unless some right hon. Gentleman on the Treasury bench gives a satisfactory explanation of the law on this matter. We are told that the law requires this money to be passed to-night. Now, I see the Attorney General in his place. Let him give us the statute; we will find the section for ourselves. I feel we have not been treated fairly. We were told that there was an inflexible law that the money should be passed to-night. Now the Chancellor of the Exchequer says it is the practice. We want the law, not the practice. I would suggest to the Leader 331 of the House that in order to get through the business more rapidly we should commence earlier in the day than three o'clock. This waste of time is most unseemly, and an effort should be made to avoid it. To-night, if the closure had not been moved, I should have finished in two minutes, and the discussion by the Irish Members, who ought to have an opportunity, would have proceeded.
I have listened with attention to the speech of the Chancellor of the Exchequer when he tried to prove that it was absolutely necessary that this Vote should be got to-night. He has utterly failed to prove his case, though he proved that, from a Government point of view, it would be desirable to get the
§ Vote to-night. That is a consideration which certainly carries no weight with us. I have sat in this House for a good many years. I remember the First Lord of the Treasury when he was a member of the fourth party, and even in those days he was remarkable for endeavouring to throw oil on troubled waters, and in his capacity as Leader of the House he does manage to throw oil on troubled waters. But his action to-night is opposed to all his previous actions. He moved the closure when it was absolutely unnecessary, and I think he may thank himself for the predicament in which he is placed.
§ Question put—
§ The Committee divided:—Ayes, 40; Noes, 231. (Division List No. 19)333
|Abraham, Wm. (Cork, N.E.)||Farvell, J. P. (Cavan, W.)||O'Malley, William|
|Allison, Robert Andrew||Flavin, Michael Joseph||Parnell, John Howard|
|Ambrose, Robert||Flynn, James Christopher||Power, Patrick Joseph|
|Austin, M. (Limerick, W.)||Hayden, John Patrick||Redmond, John E. (Waterford|
|Blake, Edward||Hogan, James Francis||Redmond, William (Clare)|
|Channing, Francis Allston||Jones. W. (Carnarvonshire)||Sullivan, Donal (Westmeath)|
|Clark, Dr. G. B.||Lawson, Sir W. (Cumberland)||Sullivan, T. D. (Donegal, W.)|
|Clough, Walter Owen||McDonnell, Dr M. A. (Queen's C||Tanner, Charles Kearns|
|Condon, Thomas Joseph||MacNeill, John Gordon Swift||Tully, Jasper|
|Crean, Eugene||M'Cartan, Michael||Weir, James Galloway|
|Crilly, Daniel||M'Ghee, Richard||Williams, John Carvell (Notts.|
|Curran, Thomas (Sligo, S.)||Maddison, Fred|
|Dalziel, James Henry||Mandeville, J. Francis||TELLERS FOR THE AYES—Sir Thomas Esmonde and Captain Donelan.|
|Doogan, P. C.||Moss, Samuel|
|Evans, S. T. (Glamorgan)||O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny)|
|Acland-Hood, Capt. Sir Alex. F.||Brunner, Sir John Tomlinson||Denny, Colonel|
|Aird, John||Bryce, Rt. Hon. James||Digby, John K. D. Wingfield|
|Archdale, Edward Mervyn||Burt, Thomas||Dilke, Rt. Hon. Sir Charles|
|Arnold, Alfred||Butcher, John George||Douglas, Rt. Hon. A. Akers|
|Arnold-Forster, Hugh O.||Buxton, Sydney Charles||Douglas, Charles M. (Lanark)|
|Ashton, Thomas Gair||Caldwell, James||Doxford, Sir William Theodore|
|Asquith, Rt. Hon. Herbert Hnry||Carlile, William Walter||Drucker, A.|
|Atkinson, Rt. Hon. John||Carmichael, Sir T. D. Gibson||Duncombe, Hon. Hubert V.|
|Austin, Sir John (Yorkshire)||Carson, Rt. Hon. Edward||Dunn, Sir William|
|Bainbridge, Emerson||Causton, Richard Knight||Elliott, Hon. A. Ralph Douglas|
|Baird, John George Alexander||Cavendish, R. F. (N. Lanes.)||Emmot, Alfred|
|Balcarres, Lord||Cavendish, V. C. W. (Derbys.)||Fellowes, Hon. Ailwyn Edward|
|Baldwin, Alfred||Cecil, Evelyn (Hertford, East)||Fergusson, Rt. Hn. Sir J. (Mane.|
|Balfour, Rt. Hn. A.J. (Manch'r||Cecil, Lord Hugh (Greenwich)||Fineh, George H.|
|Banbury, Frederick George||Chamberlain, Rt. Hn. J. (Birm.||Finlay, Sir Robert Bannatyne|
|Barnes, Frederic Gorell||Chamberlain, J. A. (Worc'rs.)||Fisher, William Hayes|
|Barry, Rt Hn AH Smith-(Hunts||Chaplin, Rt. Hon. Henry||Fison, Frederick William|
|Bartley, George C. T.||Charrington, Spencer||Fitzmaurice, Lord Edmond|
|Beach, Rt. Hn. Sir M. H. (Bristol||Collings, Rt. Hon. Jesse||Flannery, Sir Fortescue|
|Beaumont, Wentworth C. B.||Colomb, Sir John Charles Ready||Fletcher, Sir Henry|
|Beckett, Ernest William||Cook, Fred. Lucas (Lambeth)||Flower, Ernest|
|Bethell, Commander||Cooke, C.W. Radcliffe (Heref'd)||Foster, Sir Walter (Derby Co.)|
|Bill, Charles||Cox, Irwin Edward Bainbridge||Galloway, William Johnson|
|Blakiston-Houston, John||Cuhitt, Hon. Henry||Gartit, William|
|Blundell, Colonel Henry||Curzon, Viscount||Gedge, Sydney|
|Bond, Edward||Dalkeith, Earl of||Gibbs, Hn. A. G. H. (City of Lon.|
|Bonsor, Henry Cosmo Orme||Dalrymple, Sir Charles||Giles, Charles Tyrrell|
|Broderick, Rt. Hon. St. John||Davies, M. Vaughan- (Card'gn||Gilliat, John Saunders|
|Gladstone, Rt. Hn. Herbert Jn.||M'Arthur, W. (Cornwall)||Samuel, Harry S. (Limehouse)|
|Goddard, Daniel Ford||M'Crae, George||Saunderson, Rt. Hon. Col. Ed. J.|
|Goldsworthy, Major-General||Marks, Henry Hananel||Seton-Karr, Henry|
|Gordon, Hon. John Edward||Martin, Richard Biddulph||Sharpe, William Edward T.|
|Gorst, Rt. Hon. Sir John Eldon||Massey-Mainwaring, Hon. W. F.||Shaw, Thomas (Hawick B.)|
|Goschen, Rt. Hn. G. J. (St. Geo.'s||Maxwell, Rt. Hon. Sir H. E.||Shaw-Stewart, M. H. (Renfrew)|
|Graham, Henry Robert||Mendl, Sigismund Ferdinand||Simeon, Sir Barrington|
|Gray, Ernest (West Ham)||Middlemore, J. Throgmorton||Sinclair, Capt. Jn. (Forfars.)|
|Greene, H. D. (Shrewsbury)||Monckton, Edward Philip||Sinclair, Louis (Romford)|
|Gretton, John||Monk, Charles James||Smith, A. H. (Christchurch)|
|Griffith, Ellis J.||More, Robt J. (Shropshire)||Smith, Jas. Parker (Lanarks.)|
|Haldane, Richard Burdon||Morgan, J. Lloyd (Carmarthen||Smith, Hon. W. F. D. (Strand)|
|Hamilton, Rt. Hn. Lord George||Morrell, George Herbert||Soames, Arthur Wellesley|
|Hanbury, Rt. Hn. Robert Wm.||Morton, Arthur H. A. (Deptford||Stevenson, Francis S.|
|Hanson, Sir Reginald||Mount, William George||Stone, Sir Benjamin|
|Haslett, Sir James Horner||Murray, Charles J. (Coventry)||Strachey, Edward|
|Hayne, Rt. Hon. Charles Seale-||Murray, Col. Wyndham (Bath||Strutt, Hon. Chas, Hedley|
|Hazell, Walter||Nicol, Donald Ninian||Sturt. Hon. Humphry Napier|
|Helder, Augustus||Norton, Capt. Cecil William||Sutherland, Sir Thomas|
|Henderson, Alexander||Oldroyd, Mark||Talbot, Rt. Hn. J.G. (Oxf. Univ.|
|Hermon-Hodge, R. Trotter||O'Neill, Hon. Robert Torrens||Tennant, Harold John|
|Hoare, Sir Samuel (Norwich)||Orr-Ewing, Charles Lindsay||Thomas, David A. (Merthyr)|
|Hobhouse, Henry||Pearson, Sir Weetman, D.||Thorburn, Sir Walter|
|Horniman, Frederick John||Pease, Herbert Pike (Darling'n||Thornton, Percy M.|
|Houston, R. P.||Pease, Joseph A. Northumb.)||Tomlinson, W. E. Murray|
|Hozier, Hon. Jas. Henry Cecil||Penn, John||Trevelyan, Charles Philips|
|Jeffreys, Arthur Frederick||Phillpotts, Captain Arthur||Tritton, Charles Ernest|
|Jessel, Capt. Herbert Merton||Pierpoint, Robert||Vincent, Sir Edgar (Exeter)|
|Johnston, William (Belfast)||Platt-Higgins, Frederick||Walton, Joseph (Barnsley)|
|Kearley, Hudson E.||Plunkett, Rt Hn Horace Curzon||Wanklyn, James Leslie|
|Kenyon, James||Pollock, Harry Frederick||Warner, Thomas Courtenay T.|
|Kenyon-Slaney, Col. William||Powell, Sir Francis Sharp||Wason, Eugene|
|Keswick, William||Provand, Andrew Dryburgh||Webster, Sir Richard E.|
|Kimber, Henry||Pryce-Jones, Lt.-Col. Edward||Welby, Lieut.-Col. A. C. E.|
|Knowles, Lees||Purvis, Robert||Wharton, Rt. Hon. J. Lloyd|
|Lawrence, Sir E. Durning-(Corn||Rentoul, James Alexander||Whitmore, Charles Algernon|
|Lawson, John Grant (Yorks.)||Richardson, J. (Durham, S. E.)||Williams, Col. R, (Dorset)|
|Lea, Sir T. (Londonderry)||Richardson, Sir Thos. (Hartlep'l||Williams, J. Powell- (Birm.)|
|Leigh-Bennett, Henry Currie||Rickett, J. Compton||Wilson, Fred. W. (Norfolk)|
|Loder, Gerald W. E.||Ridley. Rt. Hn. Sir Matthew W.||Wilson-Todd, W. H. (Yorks)|
|Long, Col. C. W. (Evesham)||Ritchie, Rt. Hon Chas. Thomson||Wodehouse, Rt. Hn. E.R. (Bath|
|Lonsdale, John Brownlee||Roberts, John Bryn (Eifion)||Wylie, Alexander|
|Lorne, Marquess of||Roberts, John H. (Denbighs.)||Wyndham, George|
|Longh, Thomas||Robertson, Herbert (Hackney)||Wyvill, Marmaduke D'Arcy|
|Lowles, John||Robinson, Brooke||Yerburgh, Robert Armstrong|
|Loyd, Archie Kirkman||Robson, William Snowdon|
|Lucas-Shadwell, William||Royds, Clement Molyneux||TELLERS FOR THE NOES—|
|Macartney, W. G. Ellison||Russell, Gen. F. S. (Chelten'm||Sir William Walrond and|
|Macdona, John Cumming||Russell, T. W. (Tyrone)||Mr. Anstruther.|
|Maclure, Sir John William||Rutherford, John|
|M'Arthur, Charles (Liverpool)||Ryder, John Herbert Dudley|
§ Original Question again proposed.
§ Debate arising; and it being after midnight, the Chairman proceeded to interrupt the business:—
§ Whereupon Mr. A. J. Balfour rose in his place, and claimed to move. "That the Question be now put."
§ Question put, "That the Question be now put."
§ MR. JOHN REDMOND
I wish to ask your ruling, Sir, on a point of order. It is now after twelve o'clock. At the time twelve o'clock struck we were engaged in taking a division on a motion to report progress. When the Committee resumed, after that division, the main 334 question came before the Committee again. Under Rule I of the Standing-Orders it is provided that on Mondays, Tuesdays, Thursdays, and Fridays the proceedings should stop at twelve of the clock unless in the case of the exceptions that are provided. Unless those exceptions enable you to put the main question on the resumption of the Committee after twelve o'clock, I submit it is incompetent for you to receive any motion for the closure, and it is incumbent on you to vacate the chair.
The practice which, has been followed to-night is one for which we have many precedents during this Parliament. If the hon. Member 335 will look at the next paragraph of the orders he will find these words:—Provided always that on the interruption of business the closure may be moved.The interruption of business occurred when the numbers were announced from the chair; it being twelve o'clock, the interruption of business occurred; and on the interruption of business the First Lord of the Treasury moved the closure.
§ MR. JOHN REDMOND
I submit respectfully that that does not do away with the operation of the rule which
§ says that business is to stop at twelve o'clock.
§ MR. CALDWELL
On a point of order. Is there any precedent for moving the closure when the original question has not been discussed at all?
§ The Committee divided:—Ayes, 227;. Noes, 40. (Division List, No. 20.)337
|Acland-Hood, Capt. Sir A. F.||Dalkeith, Earl of||Hoare, Sir Samuel (Norwich)|
|Aird, John||Dalrymple, Sir Charles||Hobhouse, Henry|
|Archdale, Edward Mervyn||Davies, M. Vaughan-(Cardigan||Horniman, Frederick John|
|Arnold, Alfred||Denny, Colonel||Houston, R. P.|
|Arnold-Forster, Hugh O.||Digby, John K. D. Wingfield-||Hozier, Hon. James H. C.|
|Ashton, Thomas Gair||Douglas, Rt. Hon. A. Akers-||Jeffreys, Arthur Frederick|
|Asquith, Rt. Hon. Herbert H.||Douglas, Charles M. (Lanark)||Jessel, Captain H. M.|
|Atkinson, Rt. Hon. John||Doxford, Sir William Theodore||Johnston, William (Belfast)|
|Austin, Sir John (Yorkshire)||Drucker, A.||Kearley, Hudson E.|
|Bainbridge, Emerson||Duncombe, Hon. Hubert V.||Kenyon, James|
|Baird, John George Alexander||Dunn, Sir William||Kenyon-Slaney, Col. W.|
|Balearres, Lord||Elliot, Hon. A. Ralph Douglas||Keswick. William|
|Baldwin, Alfred||Emmott, Alfred||Kimber, Henry|
|Balfour, Rt. Hn. A.J. (Maneh'r)||Fellowes, Hon. Ailwyn Edward||Knowles, Lees|
|Banbury, Frederick George||Fergusson, Rt Hn. Sir J. (Manc'r||Lawrence, Sir E. D. (Corn.)|
|Barnes, Frederic Gorell||Finch, George H.||Lawson, John G. (Yorks.)|
|Barry, Rt Hn AH Smith-(Hunts||Finlay, Sir Robert Bannatyne||Lea, Sir T. (Londonderry)|
|Bartley, George C. T.||Fisher, William Hayes||Leigh-Bennett, Henry Currie|
|Beach, Rt. Hn. Sir M. H. (Bristol||Fison, Frederick William||Loder, Gerald Walter Erskine|
|Beaumont, Wentworth C. B.||Fitzmaurice, Lord Edmund||Long, Col. C. W. (Evesham)|
|Beckett, Ernest William||Flannery, Sir Fortescue||Lonsdale, John Brownlee|
|Bethell, Commander||Fletcher, Sir Henry||Lorne, Marquess of|
|Bill, Charles||Flower, Ernest||Lough, Thomas|
|Blakiston-Houston, John||Foster, Sir Walter (Derby Co.)||Lowles, John|
|Blundell, Colonel Henry||Galloway, William Johnson||Loyd, Archie Kirkman|
|Bond, Edward||Garfit, William||Lucas-Shadwell, William|
|Bonsor, Henry Cosmo Orme||Gedge, Sydney||Macartney, W. G. Ellison|
|Brodrick, Rt. Hon. St. John||Gibbs, Hn. A. G. H (City of Lond.||Macdona, John Cumming|
|Bryce, Rt. Hon. James||Giles, Charles Tyrrell||Maclure, Sir John William|
|Butcher, John George||Gilliat, John Saunders||M'Arthur, Charles (Liverpool)|
|Buxton, Sydney Charles||Gladstone, Rt. Hn Herbert John||M'Arthur, William (Cornwall)|
|Caldwell, James||Goddard, Daniel Ford||M'Crae, George|
|Carlile, William Walter||Goldsworthy, Major-General||Marks, Henry Hananel|
|Carmichael, Sir T. U. Gibson-||Gordon, Hon. John Edward||Martin, Richard Biddulph|
|Carson, Rt. Hon. Edward||Gorst, Rt. Hn. Sir John Eldon||Massey-Mainwaring, Hn. W. F.|
|Causton, Richard Knight||Goschen Rt Hn G.J. (St George's||Maxwell, Rt. Hn. Sir Herbert E.|
|Cavendish, R. F. (N. Lanes.)||Graham, Henry Robert||Mendl, Sigismund Ferdinand|
|Cavendish, V. C. W. (Derbysh.||Gray, Ernest (West Ham)||Middlemore, J. Throgmorton|
|Cecil, E. (Hertford, E.)||Greene, Henry D. (Shrewsbury||Monckton, Edward Philip|
|Cecil, Lord Hugh (Greenwich)||Gretton, John||Monk, Charles James|
|Chamberlain, Rt. Hn. J. (Birm.||Griffith, Ellis J.||More, Robt. Jasper (Shropshire)|
|Chamberlain, J. A. (Wore'r)||Haldane, Richard Burdon||Morgan. J. Lloyd (Carmarthen)|
|Chaplin, Rt. Hon. Henry||Hamilton, Rt. Hn. Lord George||Morrell, George Herbert|
|Charrington, Spencer||Hanbury, Rt. Hon. R. W.||Morton, Arthur H. A. (Deptford|
|Collings, Rt. Hon. Jesse||Hanson, Sir Reginald||Mount, William George|
|Colomb, Sir John C. Ready||Haslett, Sir James Horner||Murray, Charles J. (Coventry)|
|Cook, Fred. Lucas (Lambeth)||Hayne, Rt. Hon. Chas. Seale-||Murray, Col. Wyndham (Bath)|
|Cooke, C.W. Radcliffe (Heref'd)||Hazell, Walter||Nicol, Donald Ninian|
|Cox, Irwin Edward Bainbridge||Helder, Augustus||Norton, Capt. Cecil William|
|Cubitt, Hon. Henry||Henderson, Alexander||Oldroyd, Mark|
|Curzon, Viscount||Hermon-Hodge, Robert T.||O'Neill, Hon. Robt. Torrens|
|Orr-Ewing, Charles Lindsay||Russell, T. W. (Tyrone)||Tomlinson, Wm. Edw. Murray|
|Pearson, Sir Weetman D.||Rutherford, John||Trevelyan, Charles Philips|
|Pease, Herb. Pike (Darlington)||Ryder, John Herbert Dudley||Tritton, Charles Ernest|
|Pease, Joseph A. (Northumb.)||Samuel, H. S. (Limehouse)||Vincent, Sir Edgar (Exeter)|
|Penn, John||Saunderson, Rt. Hn. Col. E. J.||Walton, Joseph (Barnsley)|
|Phillpotts, Captain Arthur||Seton-Karr, Henry||Wanklyn, James Leslie|
|Pierpoint, Robert||Sharpe, William Edward T.||Warner, Thomas Courtenay T.|
|Plunkett, Rt. Hn Horace Curzon||Shaw, Thomas (Hawick B.)||Wason, Eugene|
|Pollock, Harry Frederick||Shaw-Stewart. M.H. (Renfrew)||Webster, Sir Richard E.|
|Powell, Sir Francis Sharp||Simeon, Sir Barrington||Weir, James Galloway|
|Provand, Andrew Dryburgh||Sinclair, Capt. J. (Forfarshire)||Welby, Lieut.-Col. A. C. E.|
|Pryce-Jones, Lt.-Col. Edward||Sinclair, Louis (Romford)||Wharton, Rt. Hon. John Lloyd|
|Purvis, Robert||Smith, Abel H. (Christchurch)||Whitmore, Charles Algernon|
|Rentoul, James Alexander||Smith, J. Parker (Lanarks)||Williams, Colonel R. (Dorset)|
|Richardson, J. (Durham, S.E.)||Smith, Hn. W. F. D. (Strand)||Williams, Joseph Powell-(Birm|
|Richardson, Sir Thos. (Hartlep'l||Soames, Arthur Wellesley||Wilson, Frederick W. Norfolk)|
|Rickett, J. Compton||Stevenson Francis S.||Wilson-Todd. Wm. H. (Yorks)|
|Ridley, Rt. Hn. Sir Mathew W.||Strachey, Edward||Wodehouse, Rt Hon E.R. (Bath)|
|Ritchie, Rt. Hon. Chas. T.||Strutt, Hon. Charles Hedley||Wylie, Alexander|
|Roberts, John Bryn (Eifion)||Sturt. Hon. Humphry Napier||Wyndham, George|
|Roberts, John H. (Denbighs.)||Sutherland, Sir Thomas||Wyvill, Marmaduke D'Arcy|
|Robertson, Herbert (Hackney)||Talbot, Rt Hn J.G. (Oxf'd Univ.||Yerburgh, Robert Armstrong|
|Robinson, Brooke||Tennant, Harold John|
|Robson, William Snowdon||Thomas, David Alfred (Merthyr||TELLERS FOR THE AYES—|
|Royds, Clement Molyneux||Thorburn, Sir Walter||Sir William Walrond and Mr.|
|Russell, Gen. F.S. (Cheltenham||Thornton, Percy M.||Anstruther.|
|Abraham Win. (Cork, N.E.)||Farrell, James P. (Cavan, W.||O'Malley, William|
|Ambrose, Robert||Flavin, Michael Joseph||Parnell, John Howard|
|Austin, M. (Limerick, W.)||Flynn, James Christopher||Power, Patrick Joseph|
|Blake, Edward||Hayden, John Patrick||Redmond, J. E. (Waterford)|
|Brunner, Sir John Tomlinson||Hogan, James Francis||Redmond, William (Clare)|
|Channing, Francis Allston||Jones, W. (Carnarvonshire)||Sullivan, Donal (Westmeath)|
|Clark, Dr. G. B.||Lawson, Sir W. (Cumberland)||Sullivan, T. D. (Donegal, W.)|
|Clough, Walter Owen||MacDonnell, Dr. M.A. (Q'n's C.||Tanner, Charles Kearns|
|Condon, Thomas Joseph||MacNeill, John Gordon Swift||Tully, Jasper|
|Crean, Eugene||Mc'Cartan, Michael||Williams, J. Carvell (Notts.)|
|Crilly, Daniel||M'Ghee, Richard|
|Curran, Thomas (Sligo, S.)||Maddison, Fred.||TELLERS FOR THE NOES—|
|Dalziel, James Henry||Mandeville, J. Francis||Sir Thomas Esmonde and|
|Doogan, P. C.||Moss, Samuel||Captain Donelan.|
|Evans, S. T. (Glamorgan)||O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny)|
§ Original (Question put accordingly.
§ The Committee divided; Ayes, 224; Noes, 32. (Division List, No. 21.)339
|Acland-Hood, Capt. Sir A. V.||Blakiston-Houston, John||Cox, Irvin Edward Bainbridge|
|Aird, John||Blundell, Colonel Henry||Cubitt, Hon. Henry|
|Archdale, Edward Mervyn||Bond, Edward||Curzon, Viscount|
|Arnold, Alfred||Brodrick, Rt. Hon. St. John||Dalkeith, Earl of|
|Arnold-Forster, Hugh O.||Bryce, Rt. Hon. James||Dalrymple, Sir Charles|
|Ashton, Thomas Gair||Butcher, John George||Davies, M. Vaughan-(Cardigan|
|Asquith, Rt. Hon. Herbert H.||Buxton, Sydney Charles||Denny, Colonel|
|Atkinson, Rt. Hon. John||Caldwell, James||Digby, J. K. D. Wingfield-|
|Austin, Sir John (Yorkshire)||Carlile, William Walter||Douglas, Rt. Hon. A. Akers-|
|Bainbridge, Emerson||Carmichael, Sir T. D, Gibson-||Douglas, Charles M. (Lanark)|
|Baird, John George Alexander||Carson, Rt. Hon. Edward||Doxford, Sir Wm. Theodore|
|Balcarres, Lord||Causton, Richard Knight||Duncombe, Hon. Hubert V.|
|Baldwin, Alfred||Cavendish, R. F. (N. Lanes.)||Dunn, Sir William|
|Balfour, Rt. Hn. A.J. (Manch'r.||Cavendish, V. C. W. (Derbysh'e||Elliott, Hon. A. Ralph D.|
|Banbury, Frederick George||Cecil, Evelyn (Hertford, East)||Emmott, Alfred|
|Barnes, Frederic Gorell||Cecil, Lord Hugh (Greenwich)||Fellowes, Hn. Ailwyn Edward|
|Barry, Rt Hn AH Smith-(Hunts||Chamberlain, Rt. Hon. J. (Birm.||Fergusson, Rt. Hn. Sir J. (Mne'r|
|Bartley, George C. T.||Chamberlain, J. Austen (Wore'r||Finch, George H.|
|Beach, Rt. Hn. Sir M. H. (Bristol||Chaplin, Rt. Hon. Henry||Finlay, Sir Robert Bannatyne|
|Beaumont, Wentworth C. B.||Charrington, Spencer||Fisher, William Hayes|
|Beckett, Ernest William||Collings, Rt. Hon. Jesse||Fison, Frederick William|
|Bethell, Commander||Colomb. Sir John Charles Ready||Fitzmaurice, Lord Edmund|
|Bill, Charles||Cooke, C.W. Radcliffe (Heref'd)||Flannery, Sir Fortescue|
|Fletcher, Sir Henry||Lough, Thomas||Royds, Clement Molyneux|
|Flower, Ernest||Lowles, John||Russell, Gen. F. S. (Cheltenham|
|Foster, Sir Walter (Derby Co.)||Loyd, Archie Kirkman||Russell, T. W. (Tyrone)|
|Galloway, William Johnson||Lucas-Shadwell, William||Rutherford, John|
|Garfit, William||Macartney, W. G. Ellison||Ryder, John Herbert Dudley|
|Gedge, Sydney||Macdona, John Cummming||Samuel, Harry M. (Limehouse)|
|Gibbs, Hn. A. G. H. (City of Lon.||Maclure, Sir John William||Saunderson, Rt. Hon. Col. Ed. J.|
|Gilliat, John Saunders||M'Arthur, Charles (Liverpool)||Seton-Karr, Henry|
|Gladstone, Rt. Hn. Herbert J.||M'Arthur, William (Cornwall)||Sharpe, William Edward T.|
|Goddard, Daniel Ford||M'Crae, George||Shaw, Thomas (Hawick B.)|
|Goldsworthy, Major-General||Marks, Henry Hananel||Shaw-Stewart. M.H. (Renfrew)|
|Gordon, Hon. John Edward||Martin, Richard Biddulph||Simeon, Sir Barrington|
|Gorst, Rt. Hon. Sir J. Eldon||Massey, Mainwaring, Hn W. K.||Sinclair, Capt,. J. (Forfarshire)|
|Goschen. Rt. Hn. G. J. (St. Geor's||Maxwell, Rt Hn. Sir Herbert K.||Sinclair, Louis (Romford)|
|Graham, Henry Robert||Mendl, Sigismund Ferdinand||Smith, Abel H. (Christchurch)|
|Gray, Ernest (West Ham)||Middlemore, Jn. Throgmorton||Smith, James Parker (Lanarks.|
|Greene, Henry D. (Shrewsb'ry||Monckton, Edward Philip||Smith, Hon. W. F. D. (Strand)|
|Gretton, John||Monk, Charles James||Soames, Arthur Wellesley|
|Griffith, Ellis J.||More Robt. Jasper (Shropshire)||Stevenson, Francis S.|
|Haldane, Richard Burdon||Morgan, J. Lloyd (Carmarthen||Strachey, Edward|
|Hamilton, Rt. Hon. Lord George||Morrell, George Herbert||Strutt, Hon. Charles Hedley|
|Hanbury, Rt. Hon. Robert W.||Morton, Arthur H.A. Deptford||Sturt, Hon. Humphry Napier|
|Hanson, Sir Reginald||Moss, Samuel||Sutherland, Sir Thomas|
|Haslett, Sir James Horner||Mount, William George||Talbot, Rt. Hn. J.G. (Oxf. Univ.|
|Hayne, Rt. Hon. Charles Seale-||Murray, Charles J. (Coventry)||Tennant, Harold John|
|Hazell, Walter||Murray, Col. Wyndham (Bath||Thomas, David Alfred (Merthyr|
|Helder, Augustus||Nicol, Donald Ninian||Thorburn, Sir Walter|
|Henderson, Alexander||Norton, Captain Cecil William||Thornton, Percy M.|
|Hermon-Hodge, Rbt. Trotter||Oldroyd, Mark||Tomlinson, Wm. Edw. Murray|
|Hoare, Sir Samuel (Norwich)||O'Neill, Hon. Robert Torrens||Trevelyan, Charles Philips|
|Hobhouse, Henry||Orr-Ewing, Charles Lindsay||Tritton, Charles Ernest|
|Horniman, Frederick John||Pearson, Sir Weetman D.||Vincent, Sir Edgar (Exeter)|
|Houston, R. P.||Pease, Herbert Pike (Darlingt'n||Walton Joseph (Bainsley)|
|Hozier, Hon. J. Henry Cecil||Pease, Joseph A. (Nortbumb.)||Wanklyn, James Leslie|
|Jeffreys, Arthur Frederick||Penn, John||Warner, Thomas Courtenay T.|
|Jessel, Capt. Herbert Merton||Phillpotts, Captain Arthur||Wason, Eugene|
|Johnston, William (Belfast)||Pierpoint, Robert||Webster, Sir Richard E.|
|Jones, David Brynm. (Swansea||Plunkett, Rt Hn Horace Curzon||Weir James Galloway|
|Jones, William (Carnarvons)||Pollock, Harry Frederick||Welby, Lieut.-Col. A. C. E.|
|Kearley, Hudson E.||Powell, Sir Francis Sharp||Wharton, Rt. Hn. John Lloyd|
|Kenyon, James||Provand, Andrew Dryburgh||Whitmore, Charles Algernon|
|Kenyon-Slaney, Col. William||Pryee-Jones, Lt.-Col Edward||William, Colonel R. (Dorset)|
|Keswick, William||Purvis, Robert||Williams, Joseph Powell- (Birm.|
|Kimber, Henry||Rentoul, James Alexander||Wilson, Frederick W. (Norfolk|
|Knowles, Lees||Richardson, J. (Durham, S. E.)||Wilson-Todd, Wm. H.(Yorks.)|
|Lawrence, Sir E. Durning-(Corn||Richardson Sir Thos. (Hartlep'l||Wodehouse, Rt Hn. E.R. (Bath)|
|Lawson, John Grant (Yorks.)||Rickett, J. Compton||Wylie, Alexander|
|Lea, Sir Thos. (Londonderry)||Ridley, Rt. Hn. Sir Matthew W.||Wyndham, George|
|Leigh-Bennett, Henry Currie||Ritchie, Rt. Hn. Chas. Thomson||Wyvill, Marmaduke D'Arcy|
|Loder, Gerald Walter Erskine||Roberts, John H. (Denbighs.)||Yerburgh, Robert Armstrong|
|Long, Col. Chas. W. (Evesham||Robertson, Herbert (Hackney)||TELLERS FOR THE AYES.—Sir William Walrond and Mr. Anstruther.|
|Lonsdale, John Brownlee||Robinson, Brooke|
|Lorne, Marquess of||Robson, William Snowdon|
|Abraham, William (Cork. N.E.||Flynn, James Christopher||Power, Patrick Joseph|
|Ambrose, Robert||Hayden, John Patrick||Redmond, E. (Waterford)|
|Austin, M. (Limerick, W.)||Hogan, James Francis||Redmond, William (Clare)|
|Blake, Edward||Lawson, Sir Wilfrid (Cumbland||Roberts, John Bryn (Eifion)|
|Clough, Walter Owen||MacDonnell, Dr. M A (Queen's C||Sullivan, Donal (Westmeath)|
|Condon, Thomas Joseph||MacNeill, John Gordon Swift||Sullivan, T. D. (Donegal, W.)|
|Crean, Eugene||M'Cartan, Michael||Tanner, Charles Kearns|
|Crilly, Daniel||M'Ghee, Richard||Tully, Jasper|
|Curran, Thomas (Sligo, S.)||Mandeville, J. Francis|
|Doogan, P. C.||O'Brien, Patrick (Kilkenny)||TELLERS FOR THE NOES:—Sir Thomas Esmonde and Captain Donelan.|
|Farrell, James P. (Cavan, W.)||O'Malley, William|
|Flavin, Michael Joseph||Parnell, John Howard|
§ Whereupon the Chairman left the Chair to make his Report to the House.
§ Resolution to be reported upon Monday340
§ next; Committee to sit again upon Monday next.
§ Adjourned at half after Twelve of the clock, till Monday next.