§ 57. "That a sum, not exceeding £305,800, be granted to Her Majesty, to defray the Charge for the Pay, &c, of the Medical Establishment, and for Medicines, &c, which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1900."
§ 58. "That a sum, not exceeding £571,000, be granted to Her Majesty, to defray the Charge for the Pay, Bounty, &c, of the Militia (to a number not exceeding 131,670, including 30,000 Militia Reserve), which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March 1900."
§ 59. "That a sum, not exceeding £75,000, be granted to Her Majesty, to defray the Charge for the Pay and Miscellaneous Charges of the Yeomanry Cavalry, which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1900."
§ 60. "That a sum, not exceeding £624,200, be granted to Her Majesty, to defray the Charge for Capitation Grants and Miscellaneous Charges of Volunteer Corps, including Pay, &c, of the Permanent Staff, which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1900."
§ * MR. CHANNINGI had put a motion down on this Vote, in order to raise certain points with regard to the financial treatment of the Volunteers, but at this period of the evening I am precluded from doing anything but put a question briefly to any of Her Majesty's Ministers present who may be able to deal with it, since the Minister who represents the War Office is not present. It is well known to all 1561 acquainted with these matters that the cost of providing ranges for the new rifle is very excessive, and I wish to know whether anything can be done in the way of providing further money than is provided out of the Capitation Grant to aid the Volunteer regiments throughout the country to provide themselves with ranges when the ranges of the Regular forces are not available for their use. I understand that a series of regulations have been prepared—I do not know whether they have been presented to the House—in which some further provision or arrangement is made which would facilitate the use by the Volunteers of the ranges available for the Regular forces, and would assign to them some pecuniary aid in taking advantage of these facilities. I may say that this question is a rather urgent one in my own neighbourhood, and so long ago as last autumn I was specially asked to draw attention to it in the House of Commons. The difficulty of obtaining the extra length of range required for the trajectory of the Lee-Metford rifle is very considerable, and the amount of money required in some of these cases by Volunteer regiments was quite beyond their means. I think, therefore, in the interests of the efficiency of the Volunteer force itself, it is only reasonable to press the Government to consider in a broader spirit the provision of further grants to Volunteer corps to meet these expenses. I would therefore ask the Secretary to the Treasury to bring the matter before the War Office, in order that it may be duly dealt with.
§ * SIR CHARLES DILKEI think the Government ought, when they are running through Supply in this way, to have the members of the Government present who are concerned in the various matters under discussion. On three occasions this evening rather important Votes have been reached, when the Ministers who ought to have been here to answer for their respective Departments have not been present. It is not only an inconvenient arrangement, but it is almost a scandal. [At this point Mr. WYNDHAM entered the House.] I am very sorry that my remarks have not been heard by the Under Secretary for War, and I hope they may be communicated to him. Of course, it is almost useless, on the last day of Supply, to deal at all fully with any matters concerning the various De- 1562 partments, because we know that the House is very anxious to bring Supply to an end. But I think the whole treatment by this House of the Volunteer force really ought next session to receive attention. We spend a great deal of money on the Volunteers, and that money is very cheerfully provided by the country, under the impression that the Volunteers constitute a force of some value. The view that the War Office are more and more taking, however, is rather that the Volunteers are merely a means of advertising the Army and of obtaining recruits. Of course, if the Volunteers are to be considered as a force in themselves, that force is wanting in cavalry and artillery: it is a force of infantry only, unless in some cases the Yeomanry may be considered as the cavalry force of the Volunteer service. Of course, we cannot discuss these matters very fully to-night; all we can do is to give full notice to the War Office that we shall discuss them fully when the next opportunity presents itself.
§ THE UNDER-SECRETARY OF STATE FOR WAR (Mr. WYNDHAM,) DoverI would like, in the first place, to apologise to the hon. Member for East Northamptonshire for not being present when he addressed the House. I understand that he brought before the House the question of ranges for the Volunteers. I can assure the hon. Member that we are fully alive to the new difficulties which have been created by the introduction of a rifle with a longer range; and that we are endeavouring to see that the Volunteers do not suffer owing to the fact that they have been speedily armed with the same weapon as the Regular forces in this country. After the Bill which has now been passed by both Houses, under which a sum of £40,000will be devoted to existing Volunteers, I think we are entitled to take credit for the fact that this is the first Government which has ever ear-marked such a sum for this particular purpose. I believe that the new regulations in regard to travelling allowances is also a step in the right direction. Coming to the speech of the right hon. Baronet the Member for the Forest of Dean, I must be allowed to disclaim absolutely the view which he has ascribed to us, namely, that we regard the Volunteers merely as machinery for 1563 obtaining recruits for the Army. That is not the case. The Volunteers have never been treated more seriously than they are being treated at this moment. They are now an organised part of our military system, they have their proportionate place in any great national crisis, and we have to bring discipline to bear upon them in a manner which was not the case in days gone by. With regard to the Yeomanry, I would remind the House that they are now being inspected on their capacity to perform outpost duty, and I believe that there are in this country several Yeomanry regiments which could provide at least one squadron, if not two, able to undertake the duties of Divisional cavalry. If that be so, the Yeomanry force does not exist in vain.
§ Vote agreed to.
§ 61. "That a sum, not exceeding£790,000, be granted to Her Majesty, to defray the charge for transport and remounts, which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1900."
§ * SIR CHARLES DILKEOn this question the Government have succeeded in showing that they have now begun to increase the number of horses, but the addition has fallen far short of making up for the diminution in previous years, that is to say, although there is an increase over last year and the year before, there is a great diminutiou upon twenty or twenty-five years ago. The Government justify their position by saying that there was no reserve of horses in those days, and by pointing out that there is now a reserve, and that that reserve may be relied upon; the Government rely upon using in time of war the existing horses for cavalry and guns, and omnibus and other horses for waggons. I cannot but think that, looking at the shortness of field artillery, as compared with infantry, we ought not to be content with drill without waggons. A distinguished artillery colonel has stated that artillery officers in this country do not know what to do with waggons in time of war, because they never drill with them in times of peace. This matter is becoming more and more important every day in view of the certainty of the adoption of quick-firing guns, and it will be absolutely necessary, I think, to 1564 drill with waggons in times of peace. I cannot myself think that the Government have yet got a sufficiently high standard before them in regard to the number of horses they keep, either for the cavalry or the artillery. I recognise the fact that they have already made an increase, but it is small.
§ MR. WYNDHAMI cannot complain that the right hon. Baronet has revived his criticism on this subject in the earlier part of the session. At that time it was pointed out that there was an increase of 500 horses, and that the introduction of the quick-firing system had thrown this question back into the experimental stage. I may mention that experiments are about to be made in a few days at Okehampton, and this day week 100 guns will be worked together on Salisbury Plain, the Commander-in-Chief and Adjutant-General being present, and, until those who are charged with the responsibility of making recommendations to the Secretary of State have delivered to my noble friend the conclusions at which they arrive, I cannot add to the statement I made at the beginning of the session. I can, however, confirm the promise I then made—viz., that we shall be prepared to accept any conclusions that may be arrived at, and should they entail the necessity for increased expenditure on horses, a Vote will be submitted for the purpose next year.
§ Vote agreed to.
§ 62. "That a sum, not exceeding£111,100, be granted to Her Majesty, to defray the Charge for Establishments for Military Education, which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1900."
§ * SIR CHARLES DILKEI desire to call attention to the limitation in the amount awarded for efficiency in foreign languages, seeming to indicate that this important branch of education is below the desired level. I trust the matter will have the attention of the Under Secretary for War.
§ Vote agreed to.
§ 63. "That a sum, not exceeding £60,200, be granted to Her Majesty, to defray the Charge for Sundry Miscel- 1565 laneous Effective Services, which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1900."
§ 64. "That a sum, not exceeding £248,300, be granted to Her Majesty, to defray the Charge for the Salaries and Miscellaneous Charges of the War Office, which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1900."
§ MR. PIRIE (Aberdeen, North)I desire to draw attention to the question of recruiting, because I look upon it as the most important question connected with the success and future efficiency of the Army. The more we look into this question, the more unsatisfactory we must admit it to be. I need not recapitulate the grave statements made by both the former and the present Secretary for War. Nothing could be stronger than Lord Lansdowne's own statement as to the outlook. For my part, I have always put down the unsatisfactory state of the Army to the system by which we try to obtain our recruits. If you will only narrow the door by which men can enter the Army, you will create a greater desire to join the ranks than if you open the door to everyone. In other words, entrance to the Army should be restricted to men who can give some proof of good moral character. Instead of that, you open the door wide to men, irrespective of age and antecedents, and for that reason so little success has attended the effort to increase the strength of the Army. A most destructive report has been issued with regard to recruiting in the Army——
§ * MR. SPEAKEROrder, order! The hon. and gallant Member cannot bring forward this question now. Recruiting is specially dealt with in another Vote.
§ MR. PIRIEThen I will only press on the Under Secretary the necessity of looking very closely into this question. The facts which have come out are not at all creditable. They show the close
§ connection there has been between the public-house and the recruiting agency.
§ vote agreed to.
§ 65. "That a sum, not exceeding £100, be granted to Her Majesty, to defray the Charge for the Ordnance Factories (the cost of the Productions of which will be charged to the Army, Navy, and Indian and Colonial Governments), which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March 1900."