EAST INDIA LOAN BILL. (Hansard, 23 June 1898)

§ * SIR W. WEDDERBURN (Banffshire)
I have in the previous stages of this Bill given my reasons for objecting to the great railway programme, to cost some Rx.30,000,000, being hurried on, thereby adding additional burdens to the taxpayers, who are already too heavily laden, and so impoverished as to be unable to resist the first attacks of famine and plague. I think that the revenues which the Government has at its disposal should be used to lighten taxation, and, if possible, to carry out measures of sanitation to deal with the very serious outbreak of disease. The great evil from which India is now suffering is the excessive poverty of the people. The peasants have no stores of grain, money, or credit; in fact, they not only have nothing, but they have less than nothing, because they are hopelessly in debt to the money-lenders. My point is, that this question of the condition of the masses should be gone into, rather than a large scheme of railway communications undertaken. I admit that railways are good in many respects, but sometimes, instead of doing the people good, they actually do them harm. I will mention to the Committee a case which came under my own observation. 1276 I was, 20 years ago, in the Deccan district of Ahmednagar, at the time of the great famine, and I took occasion to look into the position of affairs, and the people were not very badly off before the railways, for this reason: The crops in that region are millet. When there are good natural rains there is an enormous crop, and this millet is not a marketable article. The people at these times have an abundance of food, and the crops which had remained over are stored up in granaries. But when the railway came this grain got a marketable value, and these cultivators were no longer able to store up the grain, because it was sold and carried away by the railway to foreign markets. Before the railway was made the grain was stored in the village, whereas when the railway came the creditors of these poor people found it worth their while to seize this grain out of their hands and send it away to Europe. Another way in which the peasantry were hit by the railway was this: they had to pay cash for their assessments, and there was great difficulty in getting cash. The way they did it was in hiring out their carts when they were not engaged in their ordinary duties, to carry away the grain from the Nizam's territory to the coast. When the railway came this profit was lost to them. I only give that as an instance which came within my own knowledge, and the result of the railway being brought into that district had actually deprived the people both of food and of the means of paying their obligations to the Government. In this very district of Ahmednagar the assessment was actually raised because the Government, not unnaturally, believing that they were conferring a great benefit on the people, thought the rents should be raised in these districts through which the railway passed. As a matter of fact, the railway has not benefited that class of people at all. The railway cut up their fields, and injured their local communications. I mention that case to show that what is really wanted is an inquiry, a detailed inquiry, showing the condition of the peasants; and if the Government, instead of spending money on railways, which have been carried out to a sufficient extent, were to 1277 give more attention to this vital question, the difficulty might be solved. I have already stated my views on this matter, and I do not wish to take up more time. I would only say that this is a business matter; and I really do not think it is one in which any heat need be imported at all. I was rather surprised that the noble Lord made some remarks that were naturally somewhat painful for me to listen to. I understand that he thought I had in some way imputed bad faith to him. That was not the case in the least. What I said was this—that he was ill-informed, and not provided with accurate information in regard to this great crisis. I think it should be the endeavour of the Government to be as far as possible on friendly terms with the people, and to say that I wished to subvert the British Empire—

* THE CHAIRMAN
Order, order! The only question now before us is the Amendment of the honourable Member.

§ * SIR W. WEDDERBURN
The facts I propose to deal with have reference partly to the railway and partly to the funds placed at the disposal of the Government. It is in reference to the home charges that I made the observation that the Government of India should not be given a blank cheque, because it had not shown a sufficient foresight in the matter, and I say that when these proposals were made it should have been seen that they were based on a proper foundation. It is in reference to that that these observations were made. It was not necessary, however, to make a personal matter of it, as the Secretary of State appears to have done. I have no separate policy of my own. I have always been a follower of Lord Lawrence and Lord Ripon. Their policy avoided all this expenditure. They avoided war. They tried to make friendly neighbours on the Frontier, and to make the people of India a contented and prosperous people. My belief is that it is because we have abandoned that policy that we see the unfortunate condition of affairs in India which we now do.

* THE CHAIRMAN
The Motion is that— Clause 4, page 1, lines 17 and 18, to leave out 'ten millions of pounds' and insert 'three 1278 millions three hundred and eighty-four thousands of pounds.'

§ * THE SECRETARY OF STATE FOR INDIA (Lord GEORGE HAMILTON,) Middlesex, Ealing
The Amendment has really nothing to do with the main object of the Bill, though it may have reference to the condition of the people of India. Therefore I would ask the honourable Baronet not to press his Motion. What this Bill is for is to put a certain sum of money at the disposal of the Indian Government, and one object of it is to enable us to prosecute a scheme of railroads. The honourable Baronet has made a speech in which he endeavoured to show that the crops are affected by the railroads through which they run. This is an extraordinary moment to advance a theory like that. So far as I am able to learn, the construction of these railroads, instead of burdening the people, as the honourable Baronet wants us to believe, has bettered their condition. His policy appears to be to oppose the great remedy which the construction of these railways provides, and he accuses the Indian Government of extravagance for applying it. His argument is obviously unsound. If the honourable Baronet's suggestion were adopted, we would be obliged to raise the necessary sums in the Indian money market, which would induce people outside India to come in and take up the loan in Calcutta, and the result would be that we would have to pay a far higher price for the money borrowed. The loans if so taken up would injure investors in this country; the Indian Government would have to pay a higher rate of interest, and it would leave the country, whose benefit it was intended to secure in precisely the same position. Therefore, for these reasons, I think the House should not assent to this proposal. It is also necessary, in asking for this money, to secure a reserve of borrowing power; and what I would ask is that I should have some measure of the same sympathy and assistance that was accorded to my predecessor when he obtained similar powers. If the honourable Baronet could see his way to withdraw his Amendment, and not push his views to 1279 such a point as would only tend to increase the burden of taxation in India, should be glad. If he will look once more into the facts, he will find that the railway in India has a tendency to reduce the burden of taxation and to assist h developing the resources of India.

* THE CHAIRMAN
put the Amendment.

§ * SIR W. WEDDERBURN
I agree to adopt the suggestion of the noble Lord, and withdraw my proposition. My only object was to enter my protest, and to emphasise the extreme importance of economy in our Indian expenditure at the present time.