§ Upon the Order for the Third Reading—
§ MR. BUCHANAN (Aberdeenshire, E.)I should like to ask the First Lord whether it would not be possible to do something with regard to the question raised yesterday as to making a larger grant towards the maintenance of the Ben Nevis Observatory for the next three years. It does get at present some £360 a year, and, in all probability, those who are in charge of it will have to close it in October, if some provision be not made. Representations have been made to the Treasury that £500 a year should be devoted to it.
§ * MR. SPEAKEROrder, order! There is nothing as to that in the Votes.
§ MR. BUCHANANIt is contained in one of the Votes. This grant of £360 is contained in the grant of the Meteorological Society. The Ben Nevis Observatory was established in 1890, and there is a further amount required to carry it on to bring it up to £500. It is not required for more than three years, and it would be a great pity if it is allowed to be shut up. It is the only high level observatory in the kingdom, and I am informed that they do not want more than £500 a year for its maintenance, and it cannot be said that Her Majesty's Government could not grant this small amount, when it is borne in mind that it is the only high level observatory we have. This is the only civilised nation which does not maintain any high level observatories, and I put it to the Government whether they could not hold out some hope that this amount will be devoted to this purpose, either by putting pressure upon the Meteorological Council, or in some other way, and say that it could be carried on for a further three years.
§ MR. BRIGG (York, W.R., Keighley)I think that this is an observatory in one of the finest positions we have; there is no such other observatory in this country at all. The observations which are daily made there are extremely valuable when they have been tabulated. As they have been carried on for a great number of years, it seems a pity that we should let them be stopped now for the want of the sum of money which has been asked. This is one of those small points which surely might be conceded. This observatory carries on a great deal of legitimate research of great value, and I think should be supported.
§ * MR. HANBURYI am very fat from saying that what is done at the Ben Nevis Observatory is not of great importance, and probably the 92 benefit accruing from that research would not be confined to Scotland alone, but extend to England also. This is a subject upon which a question was put to the Chancellor of the Exchequer yesterday, and he has considered it fully, and given his reply, and his decision is this: If it was possible for the Treasury to give grants in this way, in this case the grant would be made twice over. If any grant is made at all, it ought to come out of the grant to the Meteorological Society. We cannot give a general grant for meteorological purposes, and then small grants for each different purpose. We do give a very large grant to that society, and if they think that the Ben Nevis Observatory requires their support, then they ought to find the funds for that, and supply the Ben Nevis Observatory out of the grant which they receive. We have no funds for the purpose. The honourable Gentleman proposes that the Treasury should bring pressure to bear upon the Meteorological Society to assist this observatory. I think that is a very fair request to make, and we shall certainly do all we can in that way.
§ DR. CLARKWell, the grant to the English Meteorological Society is all spent in keeping up their own institutions. Whereas you give to the English Meteorological Society £15,000 a year, you are giving to the Scotch society £100 a year. All that you are required to do now is to increase the Scotch Vote from £100 to £500. There are only two Scotch societies supported by the Government—one, the Meteorological Society, and the other the Royal Society, of Edinburgh—but these you only subscribe to on paper. What you give with one hand you take away with the other. All that you give them is free offices. What we want, so far as the Meteorological Society in Scotland is concerned, is full control. The English society spend money in Scotland, and both the societies do the same work, 93 and I think there should be some arrangement as to a sphere of influence. It is not proper, or fair, to ask the English society to keep up the Scotch society, because they have got all their work to do, and have spent all their money. This is not work for voluntary effort; it is for the general benefit, and I think it is very mean of the Treasury to make a fuss about £500 a year for this Ben Nevis Observatory, which is a very valuable observatory, and I think when we have got to the Votes the Treasury may see their way to meet us in some other fashion, otherwise we shall have to consider how we can reduce the English Votes.
§ COMMANDER BETHELL (York, E.R., Holderness)What has happened I suppose is that the Meteorological Society has found itself hard up for its own, purposes, and cannot assist here. Whether that is so or not I do not know, but I quite agree with my honourable Friend opposite that it is a thousand pities that the observatory at Ben Nevis should be abandoned for the want of a few hundreds of pounds. If it is true that the Meteorological Society has not had to devote its money for other purposes, then I think pressure ought to be brought to bear upon them to assist the observatory. It should not be abandoned; or, better still, a few hundred pounds should be given by the Government to keep this observatory going. Whatever else is done, it is a monstrous shame that this observatory in this unique position should be abandoned for no object whatever.
§ MR. PIRIEIt has been admitted that this observatory has done good work, and I do just ask honourable Members if the observatory were situated in England instead of Scotland, would the results be exactly the same; and if it were so, would there be any difficulty at all in supporting it? I venture to say that if this observatory were in England there would be no difficulty whatever; but we 94 have been forced to come to this House to get a contribution for a Scotch institution; we have to go before English boards and English institutions in the same way. The whole of the money for the Scottish Meteorological Society has to go before the English Meteorological Society, and in everything it is the same way. As one honourable Member has pointed out, in England expenditure of this kind is hundreds and thousands; but in Scotland it is only a few hundreds. I think that the two institutions ought to be separate, and control ought to be given to Scotland in this matter. I think it ought to be settled in some way that would be satisfactory to Scotland.