HC Deb 17 February 1898 vol 53 cc988-99
*SIR WILLIAM WEDDERBURN (Banffshire)

Sir, I rise to move the Amendment which stands in my name. No doubt the occurrences beyond the North-West Frontier of India have received full discussion in this House, but it appears to me that the internal condition of India is a matter of even graver anxiety at the present moment. I think, for the present, the Frontier question has been settled, not by the arguments of orators, but by the logic of facts, because the people of this country, and even the Government themselves in India, now know that the policy of aggression and of disregard of the rights of others has been a disastrous failure. When listened to the glowing periods of the right hon. Gentleman the Under Secretary for Foreign Affairs, and his ingenious eulogy of the Forward policy in India, and when I compared it with the bloodshed and ruin which followed that policy, I could not but think of Dead-Sea fruit, which is beautiful outside but dust and ashes to the teeth. The fact is, that a policy which is not founded on righteousness is nothing but a whited sepulchre—fair without but within tilled with dead men's bones and all uncleanness. Now, Sir, I propose to-day to deal only with the internal condition of India, but I refer to the external question for one reason only, and that is that I wish to draw the attention of the House to one point of Russian policy—a point which did not receive very much attention in the course of the discussion in this House, but which bears directly on the internal condition of India. The point is this, that in all their schemes for an attack upon India, the Russians have looked for help from within. Their only real hope of success depends upon this, that, when they are confronted with the "Thin red line" on the border, behind that "Thin red line" there would be a rising of the population in support of the invader, which would cut us off from our base and overwhelm us by its mere weight. That is the hope that has been at the bottom of all the schemes that Russian Generals have put forward for an attack upon India. On the other hand, if we have the support of the people of India, as we had their support in the worst times of the Mutiny, we shall have an ultimate line of defence that can never be broken through. I say, therefore, that in the feelings and the attitude of the people lies for us either the greatest danger or, it may be, the greatest safety. Now, we have heard a great deal in former times about the key of India. At one time it was thought that the key of India was at Herat. Then we heard that it was at Merv, then in London, then at Candahar. Sir, it is at none of these places, far less at Chitral or Malakand. The key of India is to be found in the contentment and prosperity of the masses of India. The key was securely kept in the possession of the Marquess of Ripon when he was Viceroy of India, and it will be an ill day for us and for India when, either from heedlessness or misunderstanding, we allow the key to drop out of our hands. Therefore, I say, let us not deceive ourselves upon this matter. This is a question of the very existence of our Indian Empire. But, Sir, I have no wish in this matter to appeal to fears. I wish rather to make an appeal to the justice and the prudence and the humanity of the Government and of this House. The fact is that the people of India have, during the past year, suffered from almost every possible calamity—famine, plague, war, and earthquake—and these sufferings have been aggravated by the very measures taken for their relief. Those measures, such as segregation for the plague, were, no doubt, necessary and well-intentioned, but, unfortunately, they involved fresh hardships to the suffering people because they invaded the domestic privacy which, to Orientals, is almost dearer than life itself, the consequence of which is that the people have been distracted and almost driven to despair. Under these circumstances, what is now wanted so much are words of sympathy and acts of sympathy from the authorities to the people of India, so that their minds may be soothed, and that they may bear up under their trials and afflictions. This is really as regards the people of India no time for anger or for severity. It is, therefore, with the keenest regret that I have observed the measures of repression, which the Government have thought necessary to take, and we learn that still more stringent measures are being prepared.

THE SECRETARY OF STATE FOR INDIA (Lord GEORGE HAMILTON,) Middlesex, Ealing

What measures does the hon. Member refer to?

*SIR WILLIAM WEDDERBURN

The providing of punitive police, the very severe Press prosecutions, the imprisonment without trial, and the very extensive changes in the criminal law which will make it almost impossible for anybody to discuss the Measures of the Government.

MR. SPEAKER

All these matters are the subject of another Amendment on the paper.

*SIR WILLIAM WEDDERBURN

I was only replying to the question of the noble Lord. Sir, I do beseech the Government to pause and to give the people another chance, and, at any rate, not to exercise more severity than it is absolutely imposible to avoid. With the permission of the House, I should wish to read a few lines from a letter which I have just received from an old Indian friend of mine. He is a retired Indian Judge, who, after a long and distinguished career, is devoting the remainder of his days to works of religion and charity. This is what he says of the condition of the people, speaking, I may say, not in anger, but in sorrow:— The times here are very dark. The people have suffered fearfully. Above all, the Government has changed its character. It is not the same British Government which I have known all my life, and which I served so long. I do not know how long this will last. But mark the words of an old man; this will do no good to your rule or to India. Not even during the Mutiny were things so bad as they have been in the Deccan during the past year. These are the words of a faithful friend and old servant of the British Government, and I believe these words are strictly true. I believe that these measures of repression, directed against freedom of speech, and against the liberty of the Press, will do our rule in India no good, and the reason is this: that these measures are directed chiefly against the educated classes, under a complete misapprehension of the feelings and objects of those classes who really are our very best friends in the country. If the House will bear with me I would wish to state a few facts within my personal knowledge, to establish the two following propositions: First, that the educated classes are firmly attached to British rule, by the solid conviction that with it is bound up the only hope of a happy future for India; and secondly, that these measures of repression are a mistake, because they are directed against our best friends, and that a policy of sympathy and forbearance is the only safe and beneficial policy. The other day the hon. Member for West Edinburgh pointed out the difficulty under which the Secretary of State for India is placed. It is very difficult for him to learn the real facts and to maintain an impartial control in any matters directly affecting the interests of the official classes. Recently, the Secretary of State was misled with regard to the attitude of certain tribes upon a very important matter. He was assured that these tribes welcomed the military occupation of their mountain strongholds. It was very soon found that this was a delusion, and a delusion which led to much bloodshed and ruin. Will not the noble Lord take warning from this unhappy experience? The central fact as regards the tribes beyond the frontier is their passionate love of independence, and the central fact as regards the educated classes in India is their solid attachment to British rule. Any attack upon them, which is founded upon the assumption that they wish to weaken or upset the British rule is a delusion, and must necessarily lead to very unhappy results. We all know that the educated classes of India are very intelligent—no one doubts that; and they know perfectly well that India could not stand alone. They know perfectly well that the alternative to British rule is Russian rule, or the still worse fate of anarchy. Therefore, the educated classes cling to British rule, they have accepted it as their national government, and their great object is to strengthen British rule by keeping the Government informed of the feelings of the people, and showing the Government how they can retain the approval and affection of the masses. It is objected that they criticise the action of the Government. Well, I say that, in criticising the action of the Government, it is with the object of warning the Government of danger ahead. We all know that a foreign Government must always be working very much in the dark. They are driving along a, dark and unknown road, and the man who warns them of any obstacle or pitfall is a friend, and not an enemy, and should be treated accordingly. Then, Sir, when I say that these educated classes of India are to be trusted, I may be asked with what authority I make that assertion. In reply to that, I think I may say, without any fear of contradiction, that I have been for many years enjoying the intimate confidence of the leaders of the educated party in India, and I am certain that the views I have stated faithfully express their feelings. In the heat of controversy, sometimes hard things may be said, but I do not think that any hon. Member supposes that I wish for anything except the prosperity and the welfare of our Indian Empire. I myself, and my family before me, have served the Indian Government since the beginning of this century, and I only wish to do my best for those people among whom I have lived for so many years, who have never shown me anything but very great kindness, and with regard to whom I feel the greatest anxiety to-day, not because there is any wish to do them wrong, but because by these repressive measures we are only strengthening feelings which cause grave trouble to our very best friends in India. My second proposition, Sir, is that a policy of sympathy and forbearance is the only good and safe policy. The best way of getting rid of disaffection, if such exists in India, is to promote affection among the people, and that that is by no means impossible is shown by the career of Lord Ripon as Viceroy, who created among the people not only contentment, but enthusiasm for British rule. The fact is, our only serious rival is Russia, and the way to strengthen our position in the eyes of the people is by emphasising the difference between Russian methods and British methods. The great benefits that are given by the British rule are recognised by the Indian people. Freedom of speech, the liberty of the Press, and higher education, which, as the Leader of the House so happily said yesterday, is of even more importance than elementary education—these are the great and inestimable boons which the British people have conferred upon India. They are gifts which Russia could never bestow, and I beseech the Government not to impair them in any way by measures of severity at such a time as this. I often wonder that the British people do not take more national pride in the great Indian races, which are gradually awakening under the touch of Western thought and action. The Indian people are full of virtues. May I quote the words of one of the greatest rulers that ever reigned in India—I mean the great Akbar? The Hindus are religious, affable, cheerful, lovers of justice, able in business, admirers of truth, grateful, and of unbounded fidelity; and their soldiers know not what it is to fly from the field of battle. That was true then, and I say it is true now. We are all very proud—and justly proud, of the valour and endurance shown by our British troops, and I say that with all the more pleasure because the Gordon Highlanders, who have so distinguished themselves in the recent campaign, were raised in the glens of the county which I have the honour to represent. But I think that the Indian soldiers, likewise, have justified the words of the great Akbar, and have been in no wise behind their British comrades. Sir, I do not propose further to take up the time of the House, but I would appeal to the noble Lord, and ask him whether it would not be wise and humane, in dealing with a race at the same time so docile and so intelligent and now so suffering, to exercise an abundant forbearance. I would ask the noble Lord to hold out the olive branch to these people, and give an opportunity to clear away misunderstandings and revive the old feelings of mutual regard. I would just mention one thing which contrasts so strongly with the leniency that has formerly been associated with British rule—I mean the heavy punitive police force imposed at Poona, which strikes the innocent with the guilty. Surely it is not too much to hope that that may be removed. The force was put on in consequence of the lamentable and disastrous murders there, but the author of those murders has, I believe, confessed, and has been found guilty and sentenced to death. It would seem to have been a mere attack of solitary fanaticism; it does not appear from the evidence that there was any conspiracy in the matter, and, therefore, I hope the noble Lord will see his way to now remove this punitive force. Then there is the case of Mr. Tilak, a Member of the Legislative Council. Mr. Tilak is a scholar and a man who has done good services as an educationist and as a legislator. Perhaps the noble Lord may see his way to mitigate the severe sentence that was passed upon Mr. Tilak by, at any rate, remitting the penalty of hard labour which condemns him to prison dress and association with the lowest class of criminals. Then there was the case of the Natu brothers, who have now been in prison for six months without trial; cannot the noble Lord see his way now to release them? But, Sir, above all, I would ask the Government to postpone any change of the criminal law until quieter times, when the people can be dealt with in a calm spirit. I am quite certain that a new departure in the way of legislation would be viewed with the greatest alarm throughout India, and I would ask the noble Lord, if possible, to postpone these changes, and to see whether they are really necessary. The noble Lord, in dealing with the Frontier difficulty, if I may be allowed to say so, has shown an open mind and a conciliatory spirit. I would hope that he would adopt the same attitude with regard to these questions of internal administration, because I believe that to adopt conciliatory Measures will do a very great deal to calm the present unhappy feeling in India. With regard to these questions of internal administration, patience and forbearance are needed even more, possibly, than with regard to Frontier questions, and the consequences will be more far-reaching.

Amendment proposed, to add at the end of the Question the words— And we humbly pray that Your Majesty, looking to the miseries patiently endured by the Indian people from famine, plague, poverty, and other afflictions during the past year, will graciously direct that special forbearance be shown towards them, and that careful inquiry be made into their present condition in order to restore confidence among the suffering masses, and thus prepare the way for healing Measures tending to bring back peace and prosperity."—(Sir Wm. Wedderburn.)

Question proposed, "That those words be there inserted."

THE SECRETARY OF STATE FOR INDIA

The hon. Baronet has appealed to me to express on the part of the Government some consideration and sympathy for the suffering which the Indian people have undergone during the past fifteen months; but the speech of the hon. Baronet is almost exclusively directed to another Amendment which stands in the name of another hon. Member, and is not now before the House. He has devoted a great part of his speech to matter which would have been relevant upon the other Amendment. Now, so far as the great mass of the people of India are concerned, the Government of India, and I, as representing the Government of India, have done our very best during the past fifteen months to alleviate the misery and distress in India. I doubt whether ever before such efforts were made for the alleviation of distress as have been made during this period, and, as an illustration of the way in which the work has pressed upon the Civil Service of India, I may mention that several valued officials have actually died at their posts. Of course, we have heard no reference to this tonight; I have never known the hon. Baronet do anything except to minimise the efforts of the Indian Government. We have had famine in India over an area inhabited by 64 millions of people, and, besides that, we have had the plague in Bombay. But we have heard no word of this from the hon. Baronet to-night. He has directed his attention only to Poona; and it is not even for the people there that he is concerned, but simply for three or four friends of his own. Well, it is with those three or four friends of his that we have had to deal. And why? Because they had done everything in their power to thwart the benevolent measures designed by the Indian Government. There is undoubted evidence that there was a dangerous conspiracy at Poona, and the outcome of that conspiracy was the murder of Mr. Rand and Lieutenant Agent. The hon Baronet has expressed the hope that I shall be able in some way to imitate the acts of Lord Ripon. Well, I do not doubt Lord Ripon's good intentions, but everybody who knows anything about India to-day knows that Lord Ripon contrived to raise a racial feeling in India, and from that time to this no question in India is judged on its merits, but simply as a question between race and race, and one of the difficulties we have to face is to try and allay the race feelings which Lord Ripon's Administration aroused. Then the hon. Baronet says that the best friends of British rule in India are the educated classes. Well, I think the great bulk of the educated classes are friends of the Indian Government; but how about some of the leaders with whom the hon. Baronet associates, and of whom he thinks so favourably—do they show that by their words or by their deeds? There was a meeting in London the other day in connection with a movement of which the hon. Baronet is the head, and a resolution was moved by an educated native, attributing all the evils from which India had been suffering to the unrighteous and iniquitous system of the British Government.

MR. MICHAEL DAVITT (Mayo, South)

Hear, hear!

THE SECRETARY OF STATE FOR INDIA

Of course, Sir, the hon. Member opposite is an opponent of British rule, and I can well understand that he objects to our Administration, whichever side be in power; but I do not understand how the hon. Baronet, who has himself been a member of the Indian Civil Service, accounts for the language used by a friend and associate of his own. It is a certain class of educated natives who make use of their position to instil grotesque falsehoods into the rising generation of India, that are doing so much mischief. I say the hon. Baronet must do one of two things. He must either assimilate his language inside this House to his language outside the House, or he must leave us to judge him by what he says outside, and not inside the House. So far as the masses of India are concerned, I am glad to say that there is not in them the lack of confidence which the hon. Gentleman seems to think exists as regards the intentions of the Government. We have still to struggle with the plague, and I think that of all the evils and dangers with which we have to deal the plague is the most serious. I hope and believe that, by removing certain malignant influences which have aroused a, keen opposition to the measures by which alone the plague can be stamped out, those measures will be effectual in Bombay. As regards the famine, I have, in concert with the Viceroy, appointed a Commissioner, who will go through the Provinces, who will compare the various methods adopted by the different Governments, and will make a Report, which will be of very great value, as to how far the people of India are now better or worse able to meet famine than they were before. In the same way as to inferior administration, the Government are only waiting for a quiet time to consider various proposals for the purpose of freeing people as far as possible from the pressure of indebtedness. I hope we shall be able in course of time to set up some sort of local banks for the assistance of the natives. We will also consider whether we cannot apply some principles generally by which the alienation of land will be made less easy than it is at present; we will try to see whether it is not possible that something like the principle of the Deccan Ryots Acts may be applied to the whole of India. I mention these matters to show that, the Indian Government realise that it is desirable to look into the economic condition of the people, and that they will not fail to do so. With regard to the special appeal which the hon. Gentleman has made in the case of Mr. Tilak, I am informed that the Governor of Bombay has had special inquiry made with regard to his health, and that his health is fairly good; that he is not obliged to perform hard labour, and that he has a special diet. As regards the case of the brothers Natu, I have no doubt that the Indian Government will have in mind the considerations which have been mentioned by the hon. Baronet. I think, Sir, I have shown that the Indian Government are prepared not only to express sympathy with the sufferings of the mass of the people of India, but as far as it can to adopt Measures which I trust will lead to the amelioration and the strengthening of their position to meet any difficulties which may arise in the future.

MR. J. MORLEY

I have no intention whatever of disputing the proposition of the noble Lord, that the Government of India is doing its very best to discharge the duties and the enormous responsibilities that fall upon it; but I must take the earliest opportunity of protesting against the gratuitous, wanton, and wholly uncalled-for language used by the noble Lord about my noble Friend Lord Ripon. There was no occasion whatever for that attack. It did not arise in the least from the speech of my hon. Friend below the Gangway, and when the noble Lord makes a rash and random proposition, such as that Lord Ripon's conduct was the source of racial antagonism—

THE SECRETARY OF STATE FOR INDIA

Hear, hear; so it was.

MR. J. MORLEY

The noble Lord may hold that view, but he should not express it in that rash and random way.

THE SECRETARY OF STATE FOR INDIA

Why not?

MR. J. MORLEY

Because it is not in the least relevant to the Amendment moved by my hon. Friend, and the noble Lord ought to have brought it forward in a deliberate manner, and in connection with some subject, so that we should have been in a position to defend Lord Ripon, if, indeed, he needed defence. Sir, there are plenty of things to be said against the excessive language which the noble Lord has permitted himself to use; and if the noble Lord in a full House and on a relevant occasion will repeat the language he has used to-night, he will find that he will not escape a punishment something similar to that which he received the other night.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Main Question again proposed.

Motion made, and Question, "That the Debate be now adjourned," put, and agreed to.

Debate to be resumed to-morrow.