§ MR. VESEY KNOX (Londonderry)I beg to ask the Secretary to the Treasury will be explain why the Irish Board of Works have refused to grant a loan at loss than 3½ per cent, to the governors of the Londonderry Lunatic Asylum, though the loan would be secured on the rates of the city and county of Deny; whether he is aware that 3 per cent, stock has recently been issued at par, secured on the rates of the city alone; whether the payment required by the Treasury on account of sinking fund is 2 per cent, if the loan be for 50 years, and 5 per cent, if the loan be for 20 years, and at what rates of interest this sinking fund is calculated to be invested; and whether, having regard to the general complaints of high interest charged to local authorities in Ireland, he will include in the Public Works Loans Bill any provisions dealing with this matter?
§ MR. HANBURYThe Irish Board of Works could not, of course, grant a loan at less than 3½ per cent, without the sanction of the Treasury, and the Treasury see no reason for making Londonderry an exception to the general rule for similar cases. The history of that rule is this: Up to 1893 Lunatic Asylum Loans bore interest at 3½ per cent., and were repayable within 14 years only. In 1894, under the authority of the Public Works Loans (No. 3) Act of 1893, the Treasury fixed 3½ per cent, as the rate for loans for permanent works repayable during 35 years, and 3¾ when the period was 50 years. In June, 1895, 1138 the late Board of Treasury arranged to make 3½ per cent, the rate for all periods up to 50 years, and allowed 50 years even for such non-permanent purposes as the purchase of furniture. The terms for Irish Lunatic Asylums Loans are in that respect unprecedented. There are no other loans running for 50 years which pay less interest, not even those for the housing of the working classes, and many others offer equally good security. It must be remembered, too, that the Local Loans Stock is a 3 per cent, stock not redeemable till 1912, and even at present rates the fund little more than covers its expenses. The local authorities in Ireland are not charged more than local authorities in Great Britain. Lunatic asylum expenditure is under the Grand Juries, and the Irish Government have been considering the question of allowing the local authority to borrow in he open market. To such a proposal the Treasury would not be opposed.
§ MR. KNOXI beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland whether his attention has been called to a resolution of the Governors of the Londonderry Lunatic Asylum declaring that the terms for Board of Works loans are excessive, and declining to take any more money on such terms; and whether, the governors may under the present law borrow from the general public by the issue of Stock or otherwise, and if they have no such power, whether he will propose to confer it upon them by legislation?
§ MR. GERALD BALFOURA Bill has already been drafted containing a provision enabling Lunatic Asylums to be erected or enlarged by means of the creation of Stock. Such Stock would, however, be issued by Grand Juries and not by the Governors of Asylums. In view of the changes in local Government in Ireland which it is proposed to carry out next Session, I had some doubts whether it was worth while to proceed with this Bill, but I am quite ready to introduce it and endeavour to secure its passage if unopposed.
§ Mr. KNOXasked whether the right hon. Gentleman, after the Bill had been introduced, would get it through at once if be understood there was no opposition?
§ MR. GERALD BALFOURYes I am quite ready to do that.