HC Deb 31 July 1897 vol 52 cc40-4

(1.) The office of Judge of the Court of Bankruptcy shall be abolished, and that Court shall be united and consolidated with the Supreme Court, and all jurisdiction and powers of the Court of Bankruptcy, under any Act or otherwise, and of the Judges thereof or either of them, shall vest in and be exercised by the High Court, and all causes and matters pending in the Court of Bankruptcy, or which would have been within the cognisance of that Court if this Act had not passed, shall be assigned to the Queen's Bench Division.

(2.) The Judicature (Ireland) Acts 1877 to 1888 shall, subject to the provisions of this Act, have effect for the purpose of such union and consolidation as if the same had been effected by those Acts, except that all expressions referring to the time appointed for the commencement of the principal Act shall be construed as referring to the date of the passing of this Act, and all rules and orders to be made after the passing of this Act in reference to bankruptcy jurisdiction shall be made and altered by the authorities in that behalf provided by the Judicature (Ireland) Acts 1877 to 1888, as amended by this Act; provided that the existing rules and orders in bankruptcy shall remain in force until altered.

MR. CARSON

moved at the end of the clause to add:— (3) A solicitor shall have the same right of audience in all proceedings in bankruptcy, as before the passing of this Act. He said that the Incorporated Law Society were very anxious, to have this Amendment carried. They thought that when the amalgamation took place there might be some doubt as to whether the right of audience was preserved, and it was in order to make the matter clear that he had put down the Amendment.

Amendment agreed to.

Clause 4,—

  1. (1.) All causes and matters in bankruptcy shall be ordinarily disposed of by or under the direction of one of the Judges of the Queen's Bench Division, to be assigned by the Lord Lieutenant, and the Judge so assigned shall have for that purpose the same jurisdiction and authority as the Judges of the Court of Bankruptcy would have had if this Act had not passed, and may also appoint and remove the Chief Registrar and Official Assignees in bankruptcy, subject to any changes in the official staff which may be made under the Judicature (Ireland) Acts 1877 to 1888, as amended by this Act, or otherwise. The Honourable Walter Boyd shall be deemed to be the Judge first assigned under this provision, and he shall not act under any Commission of Assize, Nisi 41 Prius, Oyer and Terminer, or Gaol Delivery, unless so required by the Lord Chancellor.
  2. (2.) Appeals in bankruptcy matters shall lie to the Court of Appeal in the same manner and in respect of the same proceedings as before the passing of this Act.
  3. (3.) The percentages payable to the Official Assignees in pursuance of Section sixty-seven of the Irish Bankrupt and Insolvent Act 1857 shall be fixed, by means of a scale or otherwise, by the Lord Chancellor, with the advice and consent of the Lord Chief Justice and Lord Chief Baron, or either of them, and with the concurrence of the Treasury.
  4. (4.) Subject to the provisions of the principal Act and this Act, all officers (including Official Assignees), clerks, and subordinate persons who are at the passing of this Act, attached to the Court of Bankruptcy, shall be attached to the High Court; and the offices in bankruptcy shall be consolidated with the offices of the Queen's Bench Division in such manner as may be provided by order made, with the concurrence of the Treasury, by the Lord Chancellor, the Lord Chief Justice, and the Lord Chief Baron, or any two of them, of whom the Lord Chancellor shall be one; provided that no officer or clerk at the passing of this Act attached to the Court of Bankruptcy shall be in a worse position as regards tenure of office, salary, or superannuation allowance (if any), than he would have been in if this Act had not passed.
  5. (5.) The vacancy in the office of Official Assignee in bankruptcy next occurring after the passing of this Act shall not be filled, unless in the opinion of the Lord Chancellor it is desirable and necessary, and if not filled there shall be in Dublin one Official Assignee only, who shall, subject to rules of court, discharge all the duties of the office.
  6. (6.) Subject to rules of court, all bankruptcy matters shall be entitled "In bankruptcy."
  7. (7.) Subject to rules of court, any Judge of the High Court may exercise in Chambers the whole or any part of his jurisdiction in bankruptcy.

THE ATTORNEY GENERAL FOR IRELAND (Mr. J. ATKINSON,) Londonderry, N.

moved to omit from that part of Sub-section (1) which refers to Judge Boyd, the words "he shall not," and insert "neither he nor any Judge subsequently assigned as aforesaid shall."

Amendment agreed to.

THE ATTORNEY GENERAL FOR IRELAND

moved at the end of Sub-section (1) to add,— but this provision shall not apply to any Judge, appointed before the passing of this Act, without his own consent.

Amendment agreed to.

MR. FLYNN

moved in Sub-section (3) after "assignees," to insert "and their staff."

MR. DILLON

said that he understood that considerable alarm was felt amongst the staff of the official assignees as to what their position would be in the event of one of the official assignees being abolished.

MR. GERALD BALFOUR

said he was afraid the Government could not accept the Amendment.

MR. DILLON

thought it was a very hard case. The Government went out of their way to put in special words to protect the official assignees, but their unfortunate assistants, some of whom had been 15 or 20 years in the Service, were left out. Was that common justice? If they were going outside the technical definition of an officer of the Court in order to protect the official assignees, why should the staff be left out?

MR. GERALD BALFOUR

said that part of the staff, if not the whole, were appointed by the official assignees themselves. They were not public servants.

MR. DILLON

asked if the office of one of the official assignees was abolished, were the Government going to turn adrift without compensation the unfortunate subordinates of that officer? While they went out of their way to safeguard the official assignee, were they going to leave him with five or six clerks in the deplorable condition of expecting to be kicked out of office without any compensation?

THE ATTORNEY GENERAL FOR IRELAND

said that several Acts of Parliament recognised the official assignee as an official of the Court for certain purposes, and this clause was put in to make it clear that every person attached to the Court in the service of the Crown would be covered by the words "subordinate persons." The official assignees had the power to employ for their own purposes certain assistants, who were in no way Government officials. They were simply private servants of the official assignees.

MR. DILLON

Is not the official assignee paid in exactly the same way his staff is?

THE ATTORNEY GENERAL FOR IRELAND

No, certainly not. His staff is paid by him out of his own pocket.

MR. CARSON

said he knew there was a good deal of feeling about this matter amongst the clerks, and really, although they might be paid in a particular way, they were in reality servants of the Court of Bankruptcy, and some of them very efficient servants. He did not want the Government to put these men in a better position than they were in before, but he was very anxious they should not suffer from amalgamation. He would ask whether his right hon. Friend could not put in some words to secure that they should not find themselves in a worse position than they were before.

MR. GERALD BALFOUR

said he thought that such a provision would be absolutely without precedent, but he would consider between this and Report if anything could be done.

MR. ARTHUR O'CONNOR

said this was a matter in which there was certainly room for improvement in the existing system. In certain branches of the public Services, there was a system of farming out clerical work. ["Hear, hear!"] There were a number of men who were in all respects practically Civil Servants, but this system placed them absolutely under the control of the man who hired them. They were the clerks of a man who was allowed a certain amount of public money for the purpose of providing clerks. The result was that there was a sweating system in the public service. ["Hear, hear!"] He was afraid it would not do to place them upon the staff of the legal establishment, because they had not undertaken those tests or complied with those conditions which are de rigeur to men in the Civil Service proper. He thought the suggestion that the Chief Secretary should consider before Report a way of protecting these men who had given such long and faithful service, a good one. ["Hear, hear!"]

MR. FLYNN

said that on the understanding that the Government would consider the matter he would withdraw the Amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

MR. CARSON

moved to insert after the word "entitled" in Sub-section (6) the words "in the High Court of Justice in Ireland, Queen's Bench Division." He said that this Amendment was also asked for by the Incorporated Law Society.

Amendment agreed to.

On the Question "That the clause, as amended, stand part of the Bill,"

MR. W. O. CLOUGH (Portsmouth)

moved to report progress. He protested against the management of the business of the House, and against hon. Members being brought down to the House on a Saturday afternoon to discuss a Bill of this important character in a ridiculously small House. It seemed to him that the business of the House was so managed that they had to work when they ought to be at leisure, and were at leisure when they ought to be working.

MR. GERALD BALFOUR

said it was quite out of the question that the Government should accede to this Motion.

MR. DILLON

hoped the hon. Member would not persist in his Motion. ["Hear, hear!"] He had himself complained of the conduct of business, but what he had insisted on was that the Irish Members should have a fair opportunity for discussing this Bill. The Government had given them a fair opportunity, and they had been beaten. He therefore hoped the progress of the Bill would not be interrupted. ["Hear, hear!"]

Motion to report progress, by leave, withdrawn.

Clause 8,—