HC Deb 01 April 1897 vol 48 cc277-80
MR. FLAVIN

I beg to ask the Under Secretary of State for War whether his attention has been drawn to the case of James Cummins, who served 40 years in the Army, having the medal and clasps, was with General Lord Roberts in the campaign of 1868, was for several years foreman in the Ordnance Store Yard, and finally was suspended and afterwards dismissed owing to his being reported by an officer for wearing a shamrock on St. Patrick's Day; whether the recommendation of the Duke of Connaught that a gratuity be given to James Cummins was carried out; and whether, seeing that this soldier committed suicide in the river Thames and was buried in Aldershot on the 17th November 1896, steps will be taken with a view of allowing the national emblem to be worn in the Army on the several commemoration days in the United Kingdom?

MR. BRODRICK

This man was discharged from the Army with a pension in 1878. He was subsequently employed as a civilian artificer in the Ordnance Store Department. A year ago he was suspended from duty for being drunk and negligent while in charge of the workshops. While under suspension his accounts were examined, and considerable discrepancies were discovered. He was consequently discharged, and no gratuity was awarded him. There is no record of any question having arisen as regards his wearing the shamrock, and the above were the sole grounds of his discharge.

MR. FLAVIN

asked whether a recommendation was not made by the Duke of Connaught that a gratuity should be given to this man?

MR. BRODRICK

said it was the fact that the Duke of Connaught asked that, in consideration of his long services, a gratuity should be given to him, but the regulations which governed such gratuities made it impossible to comply with that recommendation.

MR. FLAVIN

Would the right hon. Gentleman allow the separate nationalities of the Army when not, on parade to wear the national emblem?

* MR. SPEAKER

Order, order! That does not arise out of the Question.

MR. MACNEILL

I beg to ask the Under Secretary of State for War whether the attention of the Secretary of State for War has been called to the fact that Sub Lieutenant Hollingshed-Blundell, of the King's Royal Rifles, now stationed at Aldershot, on seeing a private soldier, an Irishman named Grindle, with a shamrock in his cap on St. Patrick's Day, ordered him to take that dirty bit of greenstuff out of his cap: and on Grindle telling him that Irish soldiers were allowed to wear the shamrock on St. Patrick's Day, ordered Grindle to be confined in the guard room; and that Grindle was subsequently punished with seven days' imprisonment and hard labour; whether, in view of the fact that an assurance was given by the late right hon Edward Stanhope, on the 10th June 1892, that if an Irish soldier intimated his desire to his Commanding Officer to wear a shamrock, he thought the Commanding Officer would be willing to grant his wish, some distinct regulation will be established for the guidance of Commanding Officers with respect to the wearing of the shamrock by their men; and whether the conduct of Sub-Lieutenant Blundell and the Commanding Officer will be brought under the notice of the Commander-in-Chief?

MR. BRODRICK

The facts seem to have been substantially as stated in the Question. The late Mr. Stanhope stated that the sanction of the Commanding Officer must first be obtained for the wearing of emblems or any addition to the uniform, and this was not done by the private in question. The particulars of this case, however, were only brought yesterday to the notice of the General Officer commanding at Aldershot, who investigated them. I may add that there is a strong desire on the part of the authorities that all consideration, consistent with discipline, should be shown by Commanding Officers to legitimate national feeling. [Irish cheers.]

Mr. MACNEILL

Is it the fact that this man was sentenced to seven days' imprisonment with hard labour, and that the Commanding Officer was not communicated with? By whose order was this man sentenced to seven days' imprisonment?

MR. BRODRICK

I presume by the Commanding Officer. As I said, the facts are now being investigated.

MR. MACNEILL

This is a very important matter. [Laughter.] Is the Commanding Officer to investigate the facts after he has sentenced the man to seven days' imprisonment?

* MR. SPEAKER

Order, order! The hon. Member is replying to the answer which has been given and arguing upon it.

CAPTAIN DONELAN (Cork, E.)

May I ask whether the right hon. Gentleman as an Irishman approves of that sentence?

* MR. SPEAKER

Order, order! The hon. Member must know that that is an improper question to ask.

* COLONEL BLUNDELL (Lancashire, Ince)

Arising out of that, I would ask whether the private was on parade at the time in uniform, in the ranks, and whether he was punished, not for wearing the shamrock, but for disobeying an order——

* MR. SPEAKER

Order, order! The right hon. Gentleman has stated that the matter is the subject of inquiry now.

MR. PATRICK O'BRIEN (Kilkenny)

May I ask whether, if any Irish soldiers are to be sent to Crete—[Mr. SPEAKER: Order, order!]—they will be allowed to wear the shamrock there? [Cries of "Order!"]

* MR. SPEAKER

Order, order! If the hon. Member persists so frequently in continuing to ask questions after I have risen and ruled them out of order, I shall have to call the attention of the House to the matter. [Ministerial cheers.]