HC Deb 01 June 1896 vol 41 cc216-9
MR. JOHN MORLEY (Montrose Burghs)

I beg to ask the Under Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, whether he can now lay upon the Table any Correspondence between Her Majesty's Government and the Governments of Germany and Italy, relating to recent affairs in the Soudan. In putting this Question to the right hon. Gentleman I will ask him whether he is aware that the Italian Government have laid before the Italian Parliament a Green-book containing Dispatches and communications bearing upon this very important subjert which may perhaps guide Her Majesty's Government?

* THE UNDER SECRETARY OF STATE FOR FOREIGN AFFAIRS (Mr. GEORGE CURZON,) Lancashire, Southport

Yes, Sir, in reply to the last Question of the right hon. Gentleman, I am well aware that a Green-book has been laid before the Italian Parliament, and I am also familiar with its contents, but it cannot be accurately described as relating for the most part to recent affairs in the Soudan—[cries of "Oh!" and "Hear, hear!"]—and therefore it does not bear upon this question. In reply to the first Question I have to say that there has been no correspondence answering this description with Germany. The correspondence with Italy has referred almost exclusively to military operations, and could not, therefore, at the present time be produced.

MR. J. MORLEY

In reference to the right hon. Geutleman's answer to my second Question, we, of course, in this Parliament have had no opportunity of reading the Green-book, but some of us, I believe, possess copies of it privately procured, and we have had access, of course, to the précis of the contents of that book published in one or two of the London newspapers. I would ask the right hon. Gentleman whether he considers it possible for us to enter into the discussion which we hope to have on the subject on Thursday next without knowing what communications have passed between Her Majesty's Government and the Italian Government, and without knowing whether the précis of these communications as reported—the précis of the Reports in the Green-book—are authentic or not. Surely it is impossible—[cries of "Order!"]— for us to discuss the matter unless we are placed on equal terms with the Italian Parliament?

* MR. CURZON

That is rather a difficult and complex question to answer without notice; but it does not occur to me that the discussion on Thursday next on the question of the employment of Indian troops in Suakim is at all necessarily connected with matters that have already appeared in the Italian Green-book. ["Hear, hear!"]

MR. J. MORLEY

I should, of course, be out of order if I were to attempt to argue that point. Thursday will be the occasion for arguing it. But are we to understand from the right hon. Gentleman that we are not to have the same communications that the Italian Government thought proper to make upon the African question to the Italian Parliament?

* MR. CURZON

No, Sir; I believe there is no present intention of laying before this Parliament the papers which have already been laid before the Italian Parliament.

MR. GIBSON BOWLES (Lynn Regis)

I beg to ask whether, having seen the Italian Green-book, the right hon. Gentleman is aware that in that book there are several Dispatches, and drafts of Dispatches, by Lord Salisbury, and that in one case when the draft of a Dispatch was submitted to the Italian Government, they complained of it, and it was subsequently corrected by Lord Salisbury? Is the right hon. Gentleman also aware——

* MR. SPEAKER

Order, order! That is a Question of which notice should be given.

MR. HENRY LABOUCHERE (Northampton)

May I ask the right hon. Gentleman, on the same subject, whether he can lay in the library of the House a copy of the Italian Green-book? I gather from what the right hon. Gentleman says that he has it.

* MR. CURZON

I do not know whether any copies are available in the Foreign Office; I have only seen one myself, but if there are any available I shall be very happy to comply with the request of the hon. Member.

MR. GIBSON BOWLES

Will the right hon. Gentleman give us those English Dispatches which are published in the Green-book?

* MR. CURZON

I cannot, without the authority of the Secretary of State, agree to give any Dispatches at all. I have already answered the Question put to me on that point, and have endeavoured to explain that the discussion on Thursday does not appear to me to turn on the Questions arising out of the Green-book.

MR. GIBSON BOWLES

I will put down the same Question for to-morrow.

MR. J. MORLEY

I do not wish to be discourteous to the right hon. Gentleman, but is he not aware that Lord Salisbury in another place, on the 17th of March, said that there had been considerable communications—that was his expression—with the Italian Government? However, I will put another Question on the Paper to the right hon. Gentleman to-morrow.

* MR. CURZON

Yes, Sir; but may I just on that point say that the considerable communications have been for the most part by word of mouth, and such communications it is impossible to lay before the House?

* SIR CHARLES DILKE (Gloucester, Forest of Dean)

With reference to the Question of the hon. Member for King's Lynn, has not Lord Salisbury's assent to the publication of all Dispatches been asked in the usual way by the Italian Government; and may not the Under-secretary of State therefore assume that the Dispatches laid before the Italian Parliament may be laid before this House?

THE FIRST LORD OF THE TREASURY (Mr. A. J. BALFOUR,) Manchester, E.

I think it must be evident to the House that it is very inconvenient that the Under Secretary should be pressed without notice for an answer to such Questions. After all, there are two days before the Debate comes on in regard to the Suakim troops, and I would beg the right hon. Gentleman to put the Question down on the Paper.