HC Deb 06 July 1893 vol 14 cc956-8
MR. AIRD (Paddington, N.)

I beg to ask the Secretary to the Admiralty if the Government, having regard to recent Despatches, will consider the propriety of giving full compensation to the sufferers by the sad loss of the Victoria, following the existing law as regards employers' liability?

THE CIVIL LORD OF THE ADMIRALTY (Mr. E. ROBERTSON, Dundee)

I have already stated, in answer to questions from the hon. Member for Devon-port on the 29th and 30th June, the provision which the Admiralty is enabled by Statute to make for the widows, orphans, and dependent relatives of the men who were lost in the Victoria, and I can only refer the hon. Gentleman to those answers.

MR. GIBSON BOWLES (Lynn Regis)

I beg to ask the Secretary to the Admiralty whether the Enclosure No. 1 in Captain Bourke's Report, dated 23rd June, 1893, contains the whole of the Report of Staff Commander Hawkins-Smith relative to the circumstances precedent to and attendant on the collision between the Camperdown and the Victoria; and, if not, whether he will lay the whole of that Report upon the Table of the House?

THE SECRETARY TO THE ADMIRALTY (Sir U. KAY-SHUTTLEWORTH, Lancashire, Clitheroe)

On the arrival of Admiral Markham's Despatch and Enclosures on Sunday the Board of Admiralty communicated the whole of them to the newspapers. They have received nothing which has not been published in extenso.

MR. GIBSON BOWLES

I beg to ask the Secretary to the Admiralty whether he has any objection now to lay upon the Table of the House the Minutes of the Proceedings of the Court Martial held last year at Malta on the stranding of the Victoria on the coast of Greece; and whether, as in the case of that Court Martial, the proceedings in the forthcoming Court Martial on the loss of the Victoria will be withheld from publication; or whether they will at once be made public, and the Minutes laid upon the Table of this House?

SIR U. KAY-SHUTTLEWORTH

With respect to the first paragraph and the end of the second paragraph, the time to raise the question whether the Minutes of any Court Martial should be laid on the Table is immediately after the sitting of the Court Martial. The Admiralty have no intention of laying on the Table at this moment the Minutes of a Court Martial held more than a year ago. In answer to the second paragraph, it is quite incorrect to say that the proceedings were withheld from publication. The Regulations require that Court Martials should be open to the public, and they have been and will be obeyed.

DR. MACGREGOR (Inverness-shire)

I beg to ask the Secretary to the Admiralty, with regard to naval discipline, whether the officer next in command of a Naval Squadron, seeing immediate danger to life and property, has any discretion in declining to carry out orders which must result in disastrous consequences?

SIR U. KAY-SHUTTLEWORTH

My hon. Friend's question has obvious reference to the events of the loss of the Victoria and the position of the Rear-Admiral. I think the House will feel that, in view of the coming Inquiry, it is undesirable that the Admiralty should at present give any opinion regarding points of this nature.

DR. MACGREGOR

I made no allusion to any specific case. I put a general question, and I respectfully ask for a reply to it.

SIR U. KAY-SHUTTLEWORTH

I must point out that the question has an obvious reference.

SIR A. HICKMAN (Wolverhampton, N.)

I beg to ask the Secretary to the Admiralty whether he will cause a full investigation to be made in this country into all the circumstances connected with the running down of the Victoria by some competent judicial authority, in which investigation the officers who may be implicated will not officiate as Judges?

SIR U. KAY-SHUTTLEWORTH

I have already informed the House that a Court Martial will at once be held to inquire into the loss of the Victoria, and have mentioned reasons why it must be held at Malta. As a matter of course, no officer, whose conduct on the occasion might probably become the subject of investigation, will sit as a member of the Court.

MR. GIBSON BOWLES

Will the Minutes of the Proceedings be laid on the Table?

SIR U. KAY-SHUTTLEWORTH

It will be for the House to consider that when the Court Martial has concluded its sittings.

MR. GIBSON BOWLES

But has the right hon. Gentleman considered it?

SIR U. KAY-SHUTTLEWORTH

It will be considered by the Board of Admiralty when the proceedings are completed.