HC Deb 08 March 1892 vol 2 cc317-20
MR. LABOUCHERE

I beg to ask the Under Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether he will lay upon the Table of the House, before the Foreign Office Vote is submitted to it, Copy of the Report, or Reports, of Captain Lugard, which have been placed in the hands of Lord Salisbury by the British East Africa Company; copies of all Treaties which have been entered into by the British East Africa Company between African Kings, Chiefs, and others, together with maps of the area covered by each Treaty; whether he can state if Captain Lugard is receiving any pay at present as an officer in Her Majesty's Army; whether, when a treaty is made between the British East Africa Company and any Chief or King in Africa, described as "Form of Treaty No. 4," in which an African potentate cedes to the Company— All his sovereign rights, and rights of government over all his territories, countries, peoples, and subjects, any investigation is made by Her Majesty's Government before the authority thus acquired by the Company is recognised and approved of, into the right of the said potentate to deal in this fashion with his "country, territories, peoples, and subjects," into the area covered by the terms "country" and "territories," and into the circumstances under which such cession is made; whether, in view of the fact that, according to Captain Lugard, great pressure was used to force the King of Uganda to enter into a Treaty with the Company, and that His Majesty appears to have considered that this pressure justified him in revoking the Treaty thus obtained from him, the Treaty between the King and the British East Africa Company has been recognised, or it is intended to recognise it, by Her Majesty's Government; whether Her Majesty's Secretary of State will consider the advisability of sending out some official to inquire into the mode in which these Treaties have been obtained from African Potentates, and whether they have acted with the approval of their peoples or subjects, or have the right to deal thus with their peoples or subjects without their assent being obtained; and whether the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs will consent to the appointment of a Committee of the House to inquire into all circumstances connected with the granting of Charters to Companies in Africa, the financial position of such Companies, the mode in which their capital has been obtained, and their action in Africa since formation, particularly in respect to the natives of that Continent?

MR. J. W. LOWTHER

If the British East Africa Company have no objection to the publication of the Reports of Captain Lugard, so far as they do not contain confidential matter, they will be laid upon the Table. Copies of the Treaties will also be laid, and a map showing generally the area comprised by them. Captain Lugard is not receiving any pay as an officer in Her Majesty's Army. So far as the circumstances admit, a careful investigation is made by Her Majesty's Government before the Treaties submitted to them are approved. The Treaty between the King of Uganda and the Company has been recognised. There is no reason to suppose that the Chiefs with whom the Treaties were negotiated were not competent to speak for their followers. Her Majesty's Government are not of opinion that any such Committee is necessary, and on account of the distance it would be difficult to obtain evidence for the investigation.

MR. LABOUCHERE

Will the right hon. Gentleman state whether there is any reason to suppose that these Chiefs were acting in accordance with the wishes of their subjects and people; and also whether any steps are being taken by the Foreign Office to ascertain from the Directors of the British East Africa Company whether they are prepared to allow these Reports to be furnished?

MR. J. W. LOWTHER

In regard to the latter part of the question, I will undertake to communicate with the British East Africa Company and ask that question. In regard to the first question, I think the onus rather lies on the hon. Gentleman to show that the Chiefs were acting contrary to, and not in accordance with, the wishes of their people.

MR. LABOUCHERE

Were any steps taken to ascertain whether, as was stated in Captain Lugard's own Report, the King of Uganda was forced in any way to sign the Treaty which has been recognised by Her Majesty's Government?

MR. J. W. LOWTHER

That is new matter not contained in the question which the hon. Member put on the Paper. I must ask him to kindly put the question on the Paper for Thursday.