HC Deb 04 March 1892 vol 2 cc47-50
MR. HANBURY (Preston)

I should like to ask the Secretary of State for War whether he has yet decided, and if so, when, to present to the House the evidence of Lord Wantage's Committee; further, whether it is really the fact that he intends to bring forward the Army Estimates on Monday without that Report—which cannot take long to produce, and which contains most important matter for consideration, and without which we cannot have an adequate debate—being in the hands of Members generally?

MR. E. STANHOPE

What the hon. Gentleman has said refers to a private conversation. I did receive one advance copy of the evidence on Wednesday last, and I at once decided, after a cursory glance, that there was no reason why we should not present it to the House. I have no control as to the time when it will be presented, but it will be presented as soon as possible, though I am afraid not before Monday.

SIR WALTER B. BARTTELOT (Sussex, N.W.)

Is it not usual, before the Army Estimates are taken, and before we are asked to form an opinion as to the Army, that certain information should be furnished. We have not had the Recruiting Report; we have not had the annual Army numbers, and in the present condition of things it is very desirable that we should have those Returns.

MR. E. STANHOPE

Of course all the usual information will be presented before the Estimates are taken. I thought the Report to which my hon. Friend alludes was on the Table. If not, it ought certainly to be distributed tomorrow. As to the Report of Lord Wantage's Committee, it will be sent out as soon as possible.

MR. CAMPBELL - BANNERMAN (, &c.) Stirling

No reflection lies upon the right hon. Gentleman as to what he has done, but seeing this important evidence can only be in our hands, perhaps, at the beginning of next week at the very earliest, I should like to ask him whether it is absolutely necessary that the Army Estimates should be taken on Monday, and whether some other branch of the Estimates could not then be proceeded with?

MR. E. STANHOPE

I think, Sir, that, looking to the exigencies of the Public Service, the Army Estimates must be taken next week; but if the right hon. Gentleman wishes not to discuss Lord Wantage's Report until he has the evidence another opportunity will arise.

LORD RANDOLPH CHURCHILL (Paddington, S.)

I should like to ask my right hon. Friend whether the evidence contained in the Report of Lord Wantage's Committee does not bear directly on the Vote for men; and, if so, whether it will be possible for the House thoroughly to discuss the Vote for men in the absence of that Report; and, further, whether it would be possible to postpone the Vote for a few days until the House would have in its possession the latest and amplest information with regard to the actual physical composition of the Army?

MR. A. J. BALFOUR

I am sure my noble Friend will appreciate the situation. The right hon. Gentleman the Member for Midlothian pointed out yesterday that it is usual and practically obligatory on the Government to bring on the first Votes in respect of the Government Services on a Monday or a Thursday. The Navy Estimates cannot be brought on next week because they are not printed, and therefore they cannot be brought forward until Monday week. There are only next Monday and Thursday and the following Monday and Thursday available as ordinary Government nights, in which the Estimates will have to be passed, and I am afraid it would be impossible for us to do otherwise than take the Army Estimates then, as the Navy Estimates are not ready. But, Sir, I will do my best to see whether I cannot meet what is a perfectly legitimate wish on the part of my noble Friend and others that at all events they should have some information as to the Report of Lord Wantage's Committee.

SIR WILLIAM HARCOURT (Derby)

The right hon. Gentleman says the Estimates are not printed. Why are they not printed? There is a Rule of this House that the principal Estimates shall be laid upon the Table within ten days of the opening of Committee of Supply. The ten days have elapsed long ago; and why these Estimates are not presented, and why the Navy Estimates are not printed, are matters that we should inquire into, because there has been a distinct breach of the Rules and Orders of this House.

MR. E. STANHOPE

It is within my own knowledge that the Estimates have been laid upon the Table, but the delay in getting them made available to hon. Members has arisen because we have not been able to get them out of the printers' hands. There has been greater delay than usual on the part of the printers this year, and we have great cause of complaint on that head.