§ MR. STANLEY LEIGHTON (Shropshire, Oswestry)I beg to ask the Under Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether, in the Agreement proposed for the purpose of defining the spheres of influence and territories of Great Britain and Germany in Africa, it is intended to confirm to the German Empire the whole of Damaraland; and whether there is any harbour, excepting the British port of Walfish Bay, by which access from the sea to Damaraland can be obtained?
§ SIR J. FERGUSSONIn the Agreement there is no alteration in the Protectorate of Damaraland by Germany, which has been for some time recognised by Her Majesty's Government. The Agreement is chiefly designed to define the respective spheres of influence in regions which have not hitherto been distinguished.
§ MR. W. F. LAWRENCE (Liverpool, Abercromby)Will there be free transit for English goods through Damaraland?
§ SIR J. FERGUSSONI think that the hon. Member will see that the Agreement provides for absolute freedom of transit respectively from German and British territory in Central Africa; in Damaraland there will be the rights of settling and trading.
§ SIR J. FERGUSSONI am afraid that I cannot say when the rest of the Papers will be presented, because the negotiations are not concluded; but I am sure that they will be presented at the earliest possible date.
§ MR. BUCHANAN (Edinburgh, W.)May I ask the right hon. Gentleman whether at an early date he will lay before the House Papers beyond the Despatch of Lord Salisbury, especially the Agreement which has recently appeared in the Official Gazette of Berlin, which differs in a certain degree from the details of Lord Salisbury's Despatch.
§ SIR J. FERGUSSONI must ask for notice of the question.
§ MR. O'KELLY (Roscommon, N.)Will the principle of the "Hinterland" be applied to the Portuguese possessions?
§ SIR J. FERGUSSONI think I must for notice of the question.
§ DR. CAMERON (Glasgow, College)I beg to ask the Under Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs if he will cause to be placed in the Library or Tea Room, for the information of Members, a map of Africa, showing the territories in dispute between Great Britain and Germany prior to the arrangement just arrived at and the exact nature of that arrangement?
§ SIR J. FERGUSSONYes, Sir; as soon as possible.
§ MR. BUCHANANI beg to ask the Under Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs what territory besides the islands of Zanzibar and Pemba is included in the proposed British Protectorate of Zanzibar?
§ SIR J. FERGUSSONThe whole of tie dominions of the Sultan of Zanzibar, with the exception of the strip of coast farmed out to the German East Africa Company, are included in the proposed British Protectorate of Zanzibar.
§ DR. CAMERONI beg to ask the First Lord of the Treasury whether the Government intend to bring in a Bill to sanction the proposed cession of Heligo-land to Germany; and, if so, when the measure will be introduced?
§ MR. W. H. SMITHYes; as soon as the agreement has been concluded of which the outlines have been embodied in the despatch of the 16th inst.
§ MR. CHANNING (Northampton, E.)I desire also to ask the right hon. Gentleman whether, before introducing a Bill for this purpose, Her Majesty's Government have taken, or will take, steps to ascertain the wishes of the inhabitants of Heligoland; whether Lord Knutsford stated in the House of Commons, in. 1885, that official information had satisfied him that the inhabitants were averse to being annexed to Germany; and, further, that evidence before the Commission on Colonial Defences showed Heligoland to be of strategical importance to this country; and whether, since 1885, Her Majesty's Government have received information and evidence to a contrary effect; and, if so, what information and evidence?
§ MR. LABOUCHEREI should like to ask whether it is true, as has been reported, that the Civil Lord of the Admiralty has resigned?
§ MR. W. H. SMITHWere there any such crisis in the Government as the hon. Gentleman suggests, the House would have been apprised of the fact without a moment's delay. There is no such crisis. With regard to the question of the hon. Member for East Northamptonshire, and his anxiety to reconcile these apparent differences of opinion, I have to say that when Lord Knutsford spoke in March, 1885, there was no question of exempting the Heligolanders from compulsory military conscription, and this liability to conscription was, as Lord Knutsford pointed out, very distasteful to the inhabitants, and made them averse to a change. The Mover of the Address had stated that Heligoland was of no possible use to us, and Lord Knutsford only stated that some persons of experience entertained contrary views to that of the hon. Member. It may be observed that no proposal has been made by any Military Authority, or by the Royal Commission, in favour of fortifying Heligoland in any way.
§ MR. CHANNINGHave any steps been taken to ascertain the wishes of the inhabitants of Heligoland?
§ MR. W. H. SMITHI believe the Government are fully informed on the subject, and I have stated correctly the facts of the case.
§ MR. BRYCE (Aberdeen, S.)The right hon. Gentleman has not answered the question, which was whether the Govern- 1369 merit have taken any steps to ascertain the feelings of the people of Heligoland?
§ MR. T. P. O'CONNOR (Liverpool, Scotland)I desire to ask whether the right hon. Gentleman will lay before the House the facts which have come to the knowledge of the Government since 1885, and which have given them their present view as to the wishes of the inhabitants of Heligoland.
§ MR. T. M. HEALYHoes the right hon. Gentleman wish to convey to the House that the Heligolanders were glad to get rid of British rule and preferred that of Germany?
§ MR. W. H. SMITHNo, Sir. I do not wish to convey any such impression to the House. The Government have reason to believe from information that the people of Heligoland are not dissatisfied with the change.
§ MR. BUCHANANSupposing Parliament refuses to sanction the cession of Heligoland, will the rest of the Agreement which relates to Africa fall through?
§ MR. W. H. SMITHI should think that if one very grave part of the Agreement is not ratified by the English Parliament, the rest of the Agreement could not be adhered to. I am, of course, speaking now without information, and I am sure the House will see that I can hardly be asked to give a decided answer to questions of this kind without notice.
MR. R. T. RETD&c) (Dumfries,Has the Agreement with Germany been concluded or not?
§ MR. W. H. SMITHThe hon. and learned Gentleman must be content to take the Papers which have been presented as showing the existing state of things. I cannot go beyond that.
§ MR. HENEAGE (Great Grimsby)I wish to ask the Under Secretary of Foreign Affairs whether the Government have, in the course of their negotiations, considered whether the rights of English fishermen in the North Sea around the coast of Heligoland, especially in regard to the recent interpretation of the word "fishing" by the High Court at Leipsic in reference to German territorial waters?
§ SIR J. FERGUSSONI will bring this important question under the notice of the Secretary of State.
§ MR. O'KELLYWill the right hon. Gentleman undertake to lay on the Table the opinion of the Naval Authorities?
§ MR. W. H. SMITHNo, Sir.
§ DR. CAMERONThe right hon. Gentleman stated that the Bill for the cession of Heligoland would be introduced when the Agreement was definitely concluded. Are we, then, to wait for the close of the negotiations as to the Niger Company?
§ MR. W. H. SMITHI referred to the arrangement as detailed in the Papers now before the House.
§ MR. BRYCEWill the Papers relating to the Agreement be presented to the House before the Bill is introduced?