HC Deb 23 April 1888 vol 325 cc174-6
MR. JAMES STUART (Shoreditch, Hoxton),

asked Mr. Solicitor General for Ireland, How many cases he knows of as having occurred in Ireland in the last 10 years in which a sentence appealed against by the person convicted was increased by the Court of Appeal?

THE SOLICITOR GENERAL FOR IRELAND (Mr. MADDEN) (Dublin University)

I am informed that there are no available records at the Irish Office which would supply the information asked for by the hon. Member. It would be necessary to obtain such information with regard to the last 10 years from Clerks of the Peace of the different counties.

MR. JAMES STUART

I asked the hon. and learned Gentleman how many cases he knows of. Is he aware of any?

MR. MADDEN

These cases are not matters of public notoriety. They do not come before me officially, and I have no knowledge I can impart on the subject.

MR. JAMES STUART

Does the hon. and learned Member know of any such case?

MR. MADDEN

I consider that I have already answered that Question.

SIR WILLIAM HARCOURT (Derby)

May I ask the Solicitor General who, then, is the responsible officer of the Government of Ireland, who can answer the question as to whether or not it is the practice under the Criminal Law in Ireland to increase sentences on appeal?

MR. MADDEN

Sir, I am. I have, Sir, I believe, answered that Question. The only manner in which I could possibly afford the information asked for, as I have endeavoured to explain, is by obtaining the necessary information from the Clerks of the Peace in the several counties in Ireland. I submit to the House that that is an answer to the Question.

SIR WILLIAM HARCOURT

I confess it must be my fault; but I did not gather he has answered the Question. Is it a fact that sentences have or have not been increased on appeal in Ireland previous to those of which we have recently heard?

MR. MADDEN

Sir, I am not in a position to know; and I have explained to the House that this is a matter which I cannot be expected to know, because the information would not be laid before me officially, and I also stated to the House the proper means of obtaining the information.

SIR WILLIAM HARCOURT

I again must ask who, then, is the person who does know? The Solicitor General says he does not know. Of course, if the Question was asked in reference to the administration of justice in England, if the Secretary of State for the Home Department was asked whether this information—["Order!"]—we may have got rid of a good deal; but surely we have not yet got rid of responsibility. If the Home Secretary were asked what the practice was in England he would certainly answer; and we want to know who will give the answer with respect to Ireland?

MR. MADDEN

Sir, the Secretary of State for the Home Department was asked the Question a few minutes ago, and he replied that he could not give the information.

MR. JAMES STUART

In the fire of Questions that have been put my simple Question has remained unanswered. My simple Question was, does the hon. and learned Gentleman know of himself of any such case? That is a simple Question which requires no explanation, and I again put it to the hon. and learned Gentleman.

MR. MADDEN

I really do not want to be discourteous to the hon. Member; but I was under the impression that I said I had no knowledge of any such case; but the fact that I have no knowledge of any such case does not lead to the inference that no such case exists, and that information can only be obtained in the manner I have indicated.

SIR WILFRID LAWSON (Cumberland, Cockermouth)

Will the hon. and learned Member obtain the information from the Clerks of the Peace?

MR. MADDEN

If a Return is moved for in the ordinary way it will be for us to consider whether it can be granted.

MR. CLANCY (Dublin Co., N.)

Will the hon. and learned Member undertake not to oppose the Motion for a Return?

MR. MADDEN

When the Notice of Motion is put upon the Paper the Government will consider whether they can agree to it or not.