§ MR. SEXTON (Belfast, W.)asked the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieu- 1359 tenant of Ireland, What circumstances, in the condition of Ireland the Government rely upon in support of their proclamation of 18 Irish counties, under the provisions of Sections 1, 2, 3, and 4 of the Criminal Law and Procedure (Ireland) Act; whether any intimidation, relating to boycotting, police protection, or otherwise, alleged to exist in those counties, can be dealt with by Courts of Stipendiary Magistrates under Section 2 of the Act; whether the Government assert the existence, in any of those 18 counties, of such a degree of crime as calls for the enforcement of exceptional law; and, what evidence the Government offer, out of the records of the Summer Assizes, that, in any of those 18 counties, proof of crime is so withheld, or common juries have so failed in the vindication of justice as to render necessary the application of provisions for the establishment of Courts of Private Inquiry, and for the empannelling of special juries, and the removal of criminal trials, at the will of the Attorney General, to any other part of Ireland?
§ THE CHIEF SECRETARY (Mr. A. J. BALFOUR) (Manchester, E.)Sir, I have already given, in answer to various Questions, a general account of the circumstances which, in the opinion f the Government, justify the proclamation of 18 counties under the first four sections of the Crimes Act. According to the promise I made to the hon. Member, I am having prepared a Return which will give him further details of the facts relating to these offences, and which he is desirous to have. He asks me in second paragraph—
Whether any intimidation, relating to Boycotting, police protection, or otherwise, alleged to exist in those counties, can be dealt with under Section 2 of the Act?I am in great hopes that Section 2 of the Act will prove very efficacious against this particular class of offences; but the Government thought that the other provisions of the Act might also be useful for the object; and, therefore, we have not contented ourselves with proclaiming the counties under Section 2, but also the other sections referred to. The hon. Gentleman asks me—Whether the Government assert the existence, in any of those 18 counties, of such a degree of crime as calls for the enforcement of exceptional law?1360 If by the word "crime" the hon. Gentleman includes, as I presume he does, intimidation——
§ MR. SEXTONI mean crime as distinguished from intimidation.
§ MR. A. J. BALFOURIt varies very much in these counties. In some of thorn, if you take crime only apart from intimidation, there might not be necessity for the application of these subheads of the Act to the whole of Ireland. The hon. Gentleman asks me—
What evidence the Government offer, out of the record of the Summer Assizes, that, in any of those 18 counties, proof of crime is so withheld or common juries have so failed in the vindication of justice as to render necessary the application of provisions for the establishment of Courts of Private inquiry, and for the empannelling of special juries.I may say generally, in answer to the Question, that the intimidation which, as I have stated, we believe to exist in these counties is of itself sufficient ground to give the power of change of venue; but there were also specific cases of the failure of justice in several counties, as the hon. Gentleman was probably aware.
§ MR. SEXTONI think it is very important we should have before us specific details; and I would ask the right hon. Gentleman whether he will lay before the House specific details, occurring at the Summer Assizes, in which justice has not been vindicated, either because of the paucity of evidence or the unwillingness of juries to perform, their duties? I would also ask the right hon. Gentleman, whether the application to so many counties in Ireland of the provisions of the change of venue and the empannelling of special juries may be regarded as due to the apprehension in the mind of the Government that juries may not be trusted? I would also ask, what grounds the Government have for thinking that Section 2 of the Act, under which parties guilty of intimidation may be sentenced to six months' imprisonment, will not be sufficient to meet the case of such offences; and, finally, I would ask what day we may expect to have before us the Return showing the number of parties Boycotted and under police protection?
§ MR. A. J. BALFOURThere have been some cases of failure of justice at the recent Summer Assizes in some of these counties. If the hon. Gentleman will put a Question down on the Paper I will give him some cases next week. I 1361 do not think it is a subject for a Return.
§ MR. SEXTONThe right hon. Gentleman has not answered one portion of my Question. I asked him, did the Government not think that the powers under the 2nd section were sufficient?
§ MR. A. J. BALFOURI rely greatly on the 2nd section; but where intimidation prevails in any district you can have no security whatever that witnesses would come forward, or juries do their duty, and we are bound to take such powers as are necessary for the change of venue should we find intimidation.
§ MR. SEXTONpointed out that under this 2nd section the Government had summary power of imposing six months' imprisonment without having any juries at all.
§ MR. A. J. BALFOURA good many of them would not be adequately punished by six months' imprisonment—murder, for example, or a serious outrage on the person, would not be adequately punished by six months' imprisonment, and in that case the offence would have to be tried before a jury.
§ MR. SEXTONWhat day shall we have the Return?
§ MR. A. J. BALFOURIt is being prepared in Dublin, and it will be laid before the House as soon as possible. A good many of the facts the hon. Gentleman asks for will be laid before the House in the ordinary course.