§ MR. JOHN MORLEY (Newcastle-upon-Tyne)asked the First Lord of the Treasury, By what authority the Office of Parliamentary Under Secretary for Ireland has been constituted; whether 1003 any document will be laid before Parliament describing the nature and duties of the Office, and the conditions under which it is held; and, whether it is contended that the Government has the power to create unpaid Parliamentary Offices without limit?
§ THE FIRST LORD (Mr. W. H. SMITH) (Strand, Westminster)Mr. Speaker, the Under Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant has been appointed by virtue of the authority which exists in the Executive Government of the day to appoint Assistant Secretaries in order to carry out in an efficient manner the duties cast upon any Department of the State, subject, in certain cases, to statutory control, respecting the vacating of seats, the right to sit in Parliament, and the payment of salaries, if any. No document will be laid before Parliament describing the nature and duties of the Office, or the conditions under which it is held; but it is right to state distinctly that no salary or profit is attached to the Office. The last Question being one of abstract law, the right hon. Gentleman is perfectly able to form his own conclusion upon it.
§ MR. JOHN MORLEYWell, Sir; but is the House, then, to have no means of knowing what are the functions, duties, and conditions of the appointment?
§ MR. W. H. SMITHThe right hon. Gentleman is well acquainted with the duties of Public Offices which have to be discharged by the Executive Government. He is also aware what are the duties which, ordinarily fall to Under Secretaries in a Public Office.
§ MR. HENRY H. FOWLER (Wolverhampton, E.)I beg to ask the First Lord of the Treasury, whether his attention or the attention of the Law Officers of the Crown has been called to Statute 41 Geo. III., which prohibits the sitting in this House of the holder of any Office created in Ireland either by, or subject to, the approbation of the Lord Lieutenant, since 33 Geo. III.?
§ THE ATTORNEY GENERAL (Sir RICHARD WEBSTER) (Isle of Wight)Perhaps the right hon. Gentleman will allow me to answer that Question. The attention both of the Government and of the Law Officers of the Grown has not been called to this Statute, but they wore perfectly aware of its existence. The provisions of that Statute have 1004 not, I think, been accurately studied by the right hon. Gentleman. [Cries of "Read!"] I am perfectly willing to read them either now or at any time that the right hon. Gentleman wishes. ["Read, read!"] Now, I will state to the House what my view of that Statute is. It expressly recognizes the possibility of appointments being made by the Lord Lieutenant, but only vacates seats or renders gentlemen ineligible to sit in this House if they hold offices of profit under the Lord Lieutenant. I may say this is not the first occasion on which this matter has been considered by Law Officers of the Crown. I believe the current opinion for a great many years has been exactly in accordance with the view at present taken by Her Majesty's Government.
§ MR. SEXTON (Belfast, W.)I wish to know whether the Private Secretary appointed by the new Under Secretary will be paid from the public purse; and, if so, out of what fund?
§ MR. W. H. SMITHNo decision has been taken upon that question, Sir. If the Private Secretary is paid out of any public funds, the House of Commons will have full control over the matter.
§ MR. EDWARD HARRINGTON (Kerry, W.)Will the right hon. Gentleman give a pledge, in the meantime, that the Private Secretary, or the Under Secretary, will not be paid out of the Secret Service Fund?
§ MR. W. H. SMITHIt is not the habit of the Government to use the Secret Service Fund for such a purpose.
§ DR. TANNER (Cork Co., Mid.)Is the present appointment intended to supply the missing link in the Orange Cabal which at present misgoverns Ireland?
§ MR. SPEAKEROrder, order!
§ MR. HENRY H. FOWLERIs the Attorney General aware that when the present right hon. Member for Mid Lothian (Mr. W. E. Gladstone) was appointed High Commissioner for the Ionian Islands without any salary being attached, it was held that the necessity for re-election applied to an office, and not simply to a place of profit, and that the right hon. Gentleman, on being appointed High Commissioner, was compelled to vacate his seat?
§ THE ATTORNEY GENERALI have the greatest pleasure in answering the Question to the best of my ability. 1005 The right hon. Gentleman is not correct in thinking that there is any difference between "office" and "place of profit." It has been determined on many occasions that these words are connected together, the meaning being "office of profit" and "place of profit." I can assure the right hon. Gentleman that if at any time he will study the matter with me, I will take him through all the precedents. It will be a work of great pleasure to do that in his company. With regard to the somewhat interesting case of the right hon. Gentleman the Member for Mid Lothian, I was rather in hopes that he would put the Question to me, because it might interest the House. It is perfectly true that the right hon. Gentleman was appointed Lord High Commissioner to the Ionian Islands, and that he was re-elected for the University of Oxford on that occasion. As to whether or not he need have been, is a somewhat doubtful question; but the necessity for such reelection was certainly not on the ground that he had held, or had been given, a place of profit—or office—or anything which would lay down any rule within which the appointment we are now discussing would fall; but it was upon the ground that the Statute of Anne prohibits "any Governor or Deputy Governor of any of the Plantations" from holding a seat in Parliament. If the right hon. Gentleman had taken the opportunity of studying, as I have been obliged to do, May's Parliamentary Practice, he would have found that the instance of the right hon. Member for Mid Lothian was not singular. There have been previous cases in which Lord High Commissioners of the Ionian Islands had also vacated their seats, on the ground that they came, or were supposed to come, within the express words of the Statute of Anne relating to Colonial Governors, and certainly not on the ground that they held either "office" or "place of profit" under the Crown.